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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 11:28 am 
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danthefan wrote:
Diego wrote:
Swapping a versatile, talented Irish player for an injury-prone Saffer :thumbdown:


Copeland had actually been playing quite well recently too.


Better off at Connacht anyway.


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 11:32 am 
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I think Cronin is absolutely good enough to start for Ireland, especially the last few years. He's just been stuck behind our best ever hooker and one of the best captains. No shame in that.
It would be short-sighted to put all out post-Best eggs in the Cronin basket, though, considering his age. He may well go on for a good few years at a high level, but the succession planning needs to have the next couple of guys on their way through the pipeline by the time Cronin takes over as #1, should that happen.


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 11:36 am 
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irishrugbyua wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
Arno Botha signing for Munster on a 1 year deal


is he really needed?

All SA backrow next season for Munster as some stage?

6. Botha
7. Cloete
8. Stander


If he was a marquee player fair enough but this is a head scratcher because from what I've seen of Botha he won't be troubling POM, Cloete or Stander for first choice and there isn't much that he can do that isn't already covered by JOD, Dave O'Callaghan, Sean O'Connor, Conor Oliver, Tommy O'Donnell or (hopefully) Gavin Coombes.

Weird signing.


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 11:37 am 
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Nolanator wrote:
I think Cronin is absolutely good enough to start for Ireland, especially the last few years. He's just been stuck behind our best ever hooker and one of the best captains. No shame in that.
It would be short-sighted to put all out post-Best eggs in the Cronin basket, though, considering his age. He may well go on for a good few years at a high level, but the succession planning needs to have the next couple of guys on their way through the pipeline by the time Cronin takes over as #1, should that happen.



I had put my hopes in the Scannell hype train but I wonder if he is durable enough for a consistent career as a top level pro, and his performance in the semi against Racing was very troubling. Rhys Marshall seems to be a better long term bet sadly.


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 11:39 am 
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For what it's worth, Botha has been dynamite when he's been on the pitch this season. Signed in Jan and played through to the start of April when he picked up a calf injury .

Best player I've seen in a LI shirt for a good few years (I know... not too much competition). If he's fit, he'll add plenty as he's a bastard to put down in the tackle. Last I saw his AP stats were something like 22 defenders beaten from 70 odd carries playing for a team with very little front foot ball. Serviceable lineout option too.


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 11:39 am 
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Munster will now have:

a kiwi hooker,
one South African second row,
three South African backrows,
a kiwi 10/12,
a South African centre,

as well as two South Africans in the academy.


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 11:41 am 
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IRELAND MEN'S SEVENS Squad (2018 Rugby Europe Sevens Grand Prix Series - Round 1, Oktyabr Stadium, Moscow, Russia, Saturday, May 19-Sunday, May 20):

Robert Balacoune (Enniskillen RFC/Ulster)
Jordan Conroy (Buccaneers RFC)
Sean Cribbin (Suttonians RFC) - u20
Shane Daly (Cork Constitution FC/Munster)
Billy Dardis (UCD RFC) Captain
Ian Fitzpatrick (Lansdowne FC/Leinster)
Hugo Keenan (UCD RFC/Leinster)
Terry Kennedy (St. Mary's College RFC/Leinster)
Harry McNulty (UCD RFC)
Bryan Mollen (Dublin University FC)
John O'Donnell (Lansdowne FC)
Greg O'Shea (Shannon RFC)
Mark Roche (Blackrock College RFC)


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 11:47 am 
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Margin_Walker wrote:
For what it's worth, Botha has been dynamite when he's been on the pitch this season. Signed in Jan and played through to the start of April when he picked up a calf injury .

Best player I've seen in a LI shirt for a good few years (I know... not too much competition). If he's fit, he'll add plenty as he's a bastard to put down in the tackle. Last I saw his AP stats were something like 22 defenders beaten from 70 odd carries playing for a team with very little front foot ball. Serviceable lineout option too.


Another belter call from Ulster management :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 11:48 am 
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Armchair_Superstar wrote:
Margin_Walker wrote:
For what it's worth, Botha has been dynamite when he's been on the pitch this season. Signed in Jan and played through to the start of April when he picked up a calf injury .

Best player I've seen in a LI shirt for a good few years (I know... not too much competition). If he's fit, he'll add plenty as he's a bastard to put down in the tackle. Last I saw his AP stats were something like 22 defenders beaten from 70 odd carries playing for a team with very little front foot ball. Serviceable lineout option too.


Another belter call from Ulster management :lol:

Well Deysel has been rather good in half the games he's been fit for.


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 11:53 am 
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unseenwork wrote:
Armchair_Superstar wrote:
Margin_Walker wrote:
For what it's worth, Botha has been dynamite when he's been on the pitch this season. Signed in Jan and played through to the start of April when he picked up a calf injury .

Best player I've seen in a LI shirt for a good few years (I know... not too much competition). If he's fit, he'll add plenty as he's a bastard to put down in the tackle. Last I saw his AP stats were something like 22 defenders beaten from 70 odd carries playing for a team with very little front foot ball. Serviceable lineout option too.


Another belter call from Ulster management :lol:

Well Deysel has been rather good in half the games he's been fit for.


Which unfortunately totals about 6 games and he is currently bucked again.


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 11:53 am 
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Sissyfuss wrote:
Sissyfuss wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
Arno Botha signing for Munster on a 1 year deal


What a weird signing. How many South Africans do they need?


This is not an attempt at a troll. But are all these weird signings having an effect on attendances and interest levels? Something is not right. The primary function of the provinces is to develop players for the national team. How is this bullshit going to do that?


Thats one interpretation and it alings with the IRFU. For me the provinces are for (hopefully) entertaining rugby throughout the year. Winning things occasionally is nice also at least as far as I can remember


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 12:00 pm 
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Edit - unable to read


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 12:07 pm 
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irishrugbyua wrote:
Munster will now have:

a kiwi hooker,
one South African second row,
three South African backrows,
a kiwi 10/12,
a South African centre,

as well as two South Africans in the academy.


We are really working the potentially IQ loophole, I hope we can get a few more, another ten in particular


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 12:23 pm 
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irishrugbyua wrote:
Yer Man wrote:
Nolanator wrote:
Best out would be a very big hole to fill in the leadership group, but would it help him in the long term? Give him time to recuperate this summer, have a good pre-season and then push through to the RWC in better shape? I know a lot can happen in that time, but he's pretty old and accumulative fatigue and niggles would really affect him more than younger guys.

He is absolutely nails and has Wolverine blood, though. So there's that.

If you had to chose between "Best for Oz" and "Best for RWC", then it's not hard.
And three years on from the last RWC we STILL don't have a genuine alternative at Hooker.
Bite the bullet and let someone earn the role this summer.


Cronin is a genuine alternative.

Agreed


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 12:29 pm 
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sewa wrote:
irishrugbyua wrote:
Munster will now have:

a kiwi hooker,
one South African second row,
three South African backrows,
a kiwi 10/12,
a South African centre,

as well as two South Africans in the academy.


We are really working the potentially IQ loophole, I hope we can get a few more, another ten in particular


Arno Botha is capped, so is Taute

At least Cloete and Botha can club together and get savings on their roids


Last edited by Porterbelly1 on Thu May 17, 2018 12:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 12:30 pm 
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Munster are the new Saffacens.


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 12:35 pm 
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Is Botha the guy that Ulster signed but then he got broken before leaving SA and the cancelled his contract?


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 12:36 pm 
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Porterbelly1 wrote:
sewa wrote:
irishrugbyua wrote:
Munster will now have:

a kiwi hooker,
one South African second row,
three South African backrows,
a kiwi 10/12,
a South African centre,

as well as two South Africans in the academy.


We are really working the potentially IQ loophole, I hope we can get a few more, another ten in particular


Arno Botha is capped, so is Taute

At least Cloete and Botha can club together and get savings on their roids


Kleyn will play for Ireland soon and Stander already is amassing a collection of caps, the brains trust here said he´d never even get one :uhoh: . Marshall stands a decent chance given Bests age and the competition is pretty poor


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 12:36 pm 
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Porterbelly1 wrote:
sewa wrote:
irishrugbyua wrote:
Munster will now have:

a kiwi hooker,
one South African second row,
three South African backrows,
a kiwi 10/12,
a South African centre,

as well as two South Africans in the academy.


We are really working the potentially IQ loophole, I hope we can get a few more, another ten in particular


Arno Botha is capped, so is Taute

At least Cloete and Botha can club together and get savings on their roids


Botha is an excellent player, if he can stay fit he'll be a massive addition to Munster.


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 12:41 pm 
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Conn wrote:
Porterbelly1 wrote:
sewa wrote:
irishrugbyua wrote:
Munster will now have:

a kiwi hooker,
one South African second row,
three South African backrows,
a kiwi 10/12,
a South African centre,

as well as two South Africans in the academy.


We are really working the potentially IQ loophole, I hope we can get a few more, another ten in particular


Arno Botha is capped, so is Taute

At least Cloete and Botha can club together and get savings on their roids


Botha is an excellent player, if he can stay fit he'll be a massive addition to Munster.

Absolutely, as much as it won't sit well with many, a back row of Botha, Cloete and Stander would be outrageously powerful, or Botha coming on as an impact sub for POM.

But not great for the likes of O Donoghue who seems to have kicked on this year


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 12:48 pm 
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ruckinhell wrote:
irishrugbyua wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
Arno Botha signing for Munster on a 1 year deal


is he really needed?

All SA backrow next season for Munster as some stage?

6. Botha
7. Cloete
8. Stander


If he was a marquee player fair enough but this is a head scratcher because from what I've seen of Botha he won't be troubling POM, Cloete or Stander for first choice and there isn't much that he can do that isn't already covered by JOD, Dave O'Callaghan, Sean O'Connor, Conor Oliver, Tommy O'Donnell or (hopefully) Gavin Coombes.

Weird signing.


JOD needs to step up to the plate, TOD is a very good player when fit, the rest are meh especially the over rated Oliver who is simply too small for pro rugby


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 12:50 pm 
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The IRFU have done everything they can to make Munster competitive. They did similar with Connacht a couple of years ago and Ulster before that. None of it seems to be sustainable.

The funding should be going into building the best academies that money can buy and stocking them with the best coaches. Leinster have been blessed to have coaches like Girve and Lancaster who truly believe in the value of the academy. Can you imagine how much more damage would have occurred had Leinster stuck with MOC?


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 12:57 pm 
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ruckinhell wrote:
irishrugbyua wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
Arno Botha signing for Munster on a 1 year deal


is he really needed?

All SA backrow next season for Munster as some stage?

6. Botha
7. Cloete
8. Stander


If he was a marquee player fair enough but this is a head scratcher because from what I've seen of Botha he won't be troubling POM, Cloete or Stander for first choice and there isn't much that he can do that isn't already covered by JOD, Dave O'Callaghan, Sean O'Connor, Conor Oliver, Tommy O'Donnell or (hopefully) Gavin Coombes.

Weird signing.


The only rational I can put on it is that irfu have realized that two years in a row stander and Pom are absolutely running on fumes at this stage and are looking at freshness prior to the rwc. Jod/Oliver both look like they need bulk beside them. I thought Coombes would make the breakthrough tbh and o Sullivan is at least a year off. Sean o Connor is a lock tbh and you’d have to worry about the injury profiles of Tod and doc2


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 1:00 pm 
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Liathroidigloine wrote:
Can you imagine how much more damage would have occurred had Leinster stuck with MOC?


and some leinster fans thought he should have been kept on. :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 1:02 pm 
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irishrugbyua wrote:
Liathroidigloine wrote:
Can you imagine how much more damage would have occurred had Leinster stuck with MOC?


and some leinster fans thought he should have been kept on. :lol:

Really? Was it DP? I only recall mongs from other provinces trying to tell us what was best for us.


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 1:05 pm 
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sewa wrote:
ruckinhell wrote:
irishrugbyua wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
Arno Botha signing for Munster on a 1 year deal


is he really needed?

All SA backrow next season for Munster as some stage?

6. Botha
7. Cloete
8. Stander


If he was a marquee player fair enough but this is a head scratcher because from what I've seen of Botha he won't be troubling POM, Cloete or Stander for first choice and there isn't much that he can do that isn't already covered by JOD, Dave O'Callaghan, Sean O'Connor, Conor Oliver, Tommy O'Donnell or (hopefully) Gavin Coombes.

Weird signing.


JOD needs to step up to the plate, TOD is a very good player when fit, the rest are meh especially the over rated Oliver who is simply too small for pro rugby


Disagree, he's been excellent generally when fit, does need to be in a team that offsets him physically but he's excelled against some top class opposition like Glasgow. Remains to be seen if he can keep fit as he's clearly trying to find a balance of maximum bulk while retaining his mobility.

Not every squad member needs to be Richie McCaw, the above can all do a decent job in the Pro 14 when the big guns are missing.


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 1:07 pm 
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Well clearly the boss doesn´t believe that and he obviously convinced the IRFU as they wouldn´t have sanctioned the signing otherwise


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 1:07 pm 
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When is the Irish squad been announced for OZ?


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 1:09 pm 
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just looking at the list of players there are 18 who aren't from the munster system in their squad, it's a mix of southern hemisphere and leinster players.

this isn't meant as a dig but is there a real risk of the munster identity/culture being diluted?


Last edited by irishrugbyua on Thu May 17, 2018 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 1:10 pm 
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hermie wrote:
irishrugbyua wrote:
Liathroidigloine wrote:
Can you imagine how much more damage would have occurred had Leinster stuck with MOC?


and some leinster fans thought he should have been kept on. :lol:

Really? Was it DP? I only recall mongs from other provinces trying to tell us what was best for us.


not really on here, elsewhere.

MOC was poision, simple as, look at the great job he is doing at Leicester.


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 1:12 pm 
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Yay another south African :|


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 1:13 pm 
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irishrugbyua wrote:
hermie wrote:
irishrugbyua wrote:
Liathroidigloine wrote:
Can you imagine how much more damage would have occurred had Leinster stuck with MOC?


and some leinster fans thought he should have been kept on. :lol:

Really? Was it DP? I only recall mongs from other provinces trying to tell us what was best for us.


not really on here, elsewhere.

MOC was poision, simple as, look at the great job he is doing at Leicester.


Yep MOC set some new records this year, First time they lost back to back game in Europe, First time in 14 years they did not make the TOP 4 in the Premiership :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 1:39 pm 
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irishrugbyua wrote:
just looking at the list of players there are 18 who aren't from the munster system in their squad, it's a mix of southern hemisphere and leinster players.

this isn't meant as a dig but is there a real risk of the munster identity/culture being diluted?



I see ur point but It’s probably fairer to say that only Leinster produce enough young players year on year compared to anywhere in the nh. Very few absolute duds or squad filer there. Obv the demise of the local club game and the increase in quality brutality And competitiveness of the pro14 and spiv cup play a role. I’d rather 15 lads from Munster but I’m more than happy to look at the big picture with Ireland and having the likes of Arnold Farrell beirne Conway getting top level game time helps the international team no end. I can’t remember who posted the another saffer point but they’re generally excellent value.

Id look at each signing in terms of whether they’re a significant roadblock or if they can help the squad. If Botha’s only there for a year and it means beirne is used purely as a lock and hopefully Wycherley/Oliver/ Coombes comes through into a bulky pack rather than one that’s getting the shit beat out of them then that’s progress. Jod is a conundrum. Good grafter but doesn’t seem to have the spark he once had. If our pro14 team has jod and Oliver in it it needs some bulk and brute force. Doc 2 had been signposted for lock before his last injury. I don’t rate Darren o shea and jvg has barely played him since arriving.


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 2:09 pm 
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I’d echo the earlier point re: the academies

Munster in particular need to suck up a few very lean years and concentrate on/invest in building the right academy structure

Buying saffers may keep the lights on in terms of being competitive in the short term, but ultimately it’s a false economy

Build a proper academy coaching system and even Hoover up leinsters schools players who don’t quite make the cut or fall through the cracks in the Leinster system (e.g. Beirne) ....... better picking up that kind of player and inculcating them into the munster way, rather than buying up saffer journeymen

Whatever blame lies at the door of Leinster for cutting Beirne, the other provinces should take a long hard look at themselves for letting him go to wales


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 2:11 pm 
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rfurlong wrote:
I’d echo the earlier point re: the academies

Munster in particular need to suck up a few very lean years and concentrate on/invest in building the right academy structure

Buying saffers may keep the lights on in terms of being competitive in the short term, but ultimately it’s a false economy

Build a proper academy coaching system and even Hoover up leinsters schools players who don’t quite make the cut or fall through the cracks in the Leinster system (e.g. Beirne) ....... better picking up that kind of player and inculcating them into the munster way, rather than buying up saffer journeymen

Whatever blame lies at the door of Leinster for cutting Beirne, the other provinces should take a long hard look at themselves for letting him go to wales


I think Baird and Beirne are good comps, excellent athletes in the row. What you think?


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 2:18 pm 
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Lazy Couch potato wrote:
irishrugbyua wrote:
just looking at the list of players there are 18 who aren't from the munster system in their squad, it's a mix of southern hemisphere and leinster players.

this isn't meant as a dig but is there a real risk of the munster identity/culture being diluted?



I see ur point but It’s probably fairer to say that only Leinster produce enough young players year on year compared to anywhere in the nh. Very few absolute duds or squad filer there. Obv the demise of the local club game and the increase in quality brutality And competitiveness of the pro14 and spiv cup play a role. I’d rather 15 lads from Munster but I’m more than happy to look at the big picture with Ireland and having the likes of Arnold Farrell beirne Conway getting top level game time helps the international team no end. I can’t remember who posted the another saffer point but they’re generally excellent value.

Id look at each signing in terms of whether they’re a significant roadblock or if they can help the squad. If Botha’s only there for a year and it means beirne is used purely as a lock and hopefully Wycherley/Oliver/ Coombes comes through into a bulky pack rather than one that’s getting the shit beat out of them then that’s progress. Jod is a conundrum. Good grafter but doesn’t seem to have the spark he once had. If our pro14 team has jod and Oliver in it it needs some bulk and brute force. Doc 2 had been signposted for lock before his last injury. I don’t rate Darren o shea and jvg has barely played him since arriving.


Yeah I suppose, i'd rather munster signed saffers than trying to poach leinster lads.

Still don't understand signing them to the academy, plenty of young munster players joined the academy with low profile and developed while there into good players.


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 2:23 pm 
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irishrugbyua wrote:
IRELAND MEN'S SEVENS Squad (2018 Rugby Europe Sevens Grand Prix Series - Round 1, Oktyabr Stadium, Moscow, Russia, Saturday, May 19-Sunday, May 20):

Robert Balacoune (Enniskillen RFC/Ulster)
Jordan Conroy (Buccaneers RFC)
Sean Cribbin (Suttonians RFC) - u20
Shane Daly (Cork Constitution FC/Munster)
Billy Dardis (UCD RFC) Captain
Ian Fitzpatrick (Lansdowne FC/Leinster)
Hugo Keenan (UCD RFC/Leinster)
Terry Kennedy (St. Mary's College RFC/Leinster)
Harry McNulty (UCD RFC)
Bryan Mollen (Dublin University FC)
John O'Donnell (Lansdowne FC)
Greg O'Shea (Shannon RFC)
Mark Roche (Blackrock College RFC)


Forgot to say i expect that's Fitzpatrick, Keenan and Kennedy done in Leinster Academy.


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 2:23 pm 
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Do Leinster ever try to sign players from other provinces to their academy? As in, players born, bred and schooled in another province who would be seen as top prospects. Similar to what Munster tried with Porter last year. Asking out of interest, not trolling.


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 2:29 pm 
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Don't know about Leinster but have heard that Munster and Connacht have been sniffing around Ulster academy or soon to be academy players but again I hear a lot of crap.


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 2:29 pm 
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Liathroidigloine wrote:
The IRFU have done everything they can to make Munster competitive. They did similar with Connacht a couple of years ago and Ulster before that. None of it seems to be sustainable.

The funding should be going into building the best academies that money can buy and stocking them with the best coaches. Leinster have been blessed to have coaches like Girve and Lancaster who truly believe in the value of the academy. Can you imagine how much more damage would have occurred had Leinster stuck with MOC?


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