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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:00 pm 
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I just don't know anymore.

I'm too depressed to see the future. But I stand by it, every position come February should so on current form.

Literally as long as I can remember it's been harder to get off this team than get on it.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:03 pm 
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Mullet 2 wrote:
I just don't know anymore.

I'm too depressed to see the future. But I stand by it, every position come February should so on current form.

Literally as long as I can remember it's been harder to get off this team than get on it.


Two words:

Eddie O'Sullivan


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:04 pm 
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Mullet 2 wrote:
I just don't know anymore.

I'm too depressed to see the future. But I stand by it, every position come February should so on current form.

Literally as long as I can remember it's been harder to get off this team than get on it.

So much this

Again, and I'm like a broken record here I appreciate that, but we need a new man with new ideas and a fresh perspective to look at ALL the players and pick on form and who he believes can play to the style that he wishes to adopt or at least can learn


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:04 pm 
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Suspect Harry Byrne (certainly not the average Ross) will be the Irish 10 in 2023. We need to move on quickly. No point keeping some players, especially the sick-notes, when they have once more shown they cannot get it done even when relatively pampered by the IRFU.

Didn't care about the prescriptive rugby so much as long as we won, but it was certainly a hard watch this tournament. Wales were once one of the more structured teams in the game, and now they play totally "heads-up, play "what's in front of you" rugby. Gatland has transformed them... again. We need to evolve our game. Did we have a single offload today?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:06 pm 
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Goes back long before Eddie.

Maybe he had no choice with Sexton but Murray needed to go by round 3 Six nations and either Marmion or McGrath or Cooney given a go.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:11 pm 
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Mullet 2 wrote:
There really is only so much blame you can lay at the feet of the coaches tbh.

Twice today the lads didnt set or moved from blindside pillar. Like that's as basic as it gets. It's literally the first thing you learn in an organised defence.

Yep. Fast ball kills and we couldn't re-align quickly enough. Aaron Smith was incredible in getting the ball away.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:13 pm 
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Mullet 2 wrote:
Goes back long before Eddie.

Maybe he had no choice with Sexton but Murray needed to go by round 3 Six nations and either Marmion or McGrath or Cooney given a go.


Being selective like this is exactly the reason Irish rugby is where it is.

You either reward form or you fcuking don't.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:17 pm 
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redderneck wrote:
Mullet 2 wrote:
Goes back long before Eddie.

Maybe he had no choice with Sexton but Murray needed to go by round 3 Six nations and either Marmion or McGrath or Cooney given a go.


Being selective like this is exactly the reason Irish rugby is where it is.

You either reward form or you fcuking don't.


Selective my arse. We had scrum half's putting their hands up. Anybody who can say the same about 10 is a liar. Maybe before we fúcked over Jackson bit Joey has not delivered and when he looks like he might he gets injured.

You can't detach from reality because we lost. He hadn't a choice at 10 and if we're honest we all know it.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:28 pm 
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Hansen also deserves a ton of credit. He had the balls to drop a 100 Test TH Owen Franks, then Reiko Ioane, arguably the best winger of 2018, and then move the best 10 in the game to full back and put complete newbies on the wing. Reece has only had one incomplete season of Super rugby.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:30 pm 
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Brian9848 wrote:
Hansen also deserves a ton of credit. He had the balls to drop a 100 Test TH Owen Franks, then Reiko Ioane, arguably the best winger of 2018, and then move the best 10 in the game to full back and put complete newbies on the wing. Reece has only had one incomplete season of Super rugby.


All while we wring our hands about experience and he's the guy for the big game and you can't start Larmour and whatever else.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:32 pm 
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Mullet 2 wrote:
redderneck wrote:
Mullet 2 wrote:
Goes back long before Eddie.

Maybe he had no choice with Sexton but Murray needed to go by round 3 Six nations and either Marmion or McGrath or Cooney given a go.


Being selective like this is exactly the reason Irish rugby is where it is.

You either reward form or you fcuking don't.


Selective my arse. We had scrum half's putting their hands up. Anybody who can say the same about 10 is a liar. Maybe before we fúcked over Jackson bit Joey has not delivered and when he looks like he might he gets injured.

You can't detach from reality because we lost. He hadn't a choice at 10 and if we're honest we all know it.


We had to double down on Sexton even if he has been shite all year because there wasn’t enough time to find an alternative. Agreed at 9, Marmion should have replaced Murray in the 6N and the other backups are all at a reasonable level.

Moving forward we need to develop several options in both positions, and find a playmaking 12. That process starts with dropping Murray and retiring Sexton imo.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:33 pm 
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Brian9848 wrote:
Hansen also deserves a ton of credit. He had the balls to drop a 100 Test TH Owen Franks, then Reiko Ioane, arguably the best winger of 2018, and then move the best 10 in the game to full back and put complete newbies on the wing. Reece has only had one incomplete season of Super rugby.

Amazing things happen when you dont have your undroppable favourites
Players play with a fear that if their performance is not up to the mark they dont get the shirt next week


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:35 pm 
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danthefan wrote:
Brian9848 wrote:
Hansen also deserves a ton of credit. He had the balls to drop a 100 Test TH Owen Franks, then Reiko Ioane, arguably the best winger of 2018, and then move the best 10 in the game to full back and put complete newbies on the wing. Reece has only had one incomplete season of Super rugby.


All while we wring our hands about experience and he's the guy for the big game and you can't start Larmour and whatever else.


I called for Balcony Bob over Larmour before the game and got that one completely wrong, based on Bob being good in the air and being capable of producing a big performance. He did neither today (he was far from being the reason why we lost tbf) but Larmour looked like he might actually create something when he came on.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:39 pm 
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Will be interesting to see if Farrell brings a new approach to Ireland. We've been worked out and need something different. Cian Healy is the only player who is currently in their 30s I'd be keeping about the squad.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:40 pm 
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We peaked a year too early.

NZ were excellent and we couldn't live with them.

Hopefully Farrell is allowed build a new team now, in his own likeness.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:41 pm 
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Man am I glad I passed out and slept through that. :lol:

I know nothing other than we were hammered and I don't have the desire to watch it.

Depressing. Embarrassing end to a dreadful tournament.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:43 pm 
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camroc1 wrote:
We peaked a year too early.

NZ were excellent and we couldn't live with them.

Hopefully Farrell is allowed build a new team now, in his own likeness.

It was his defence that got, I'm presuming based on the score, eviscerated out there.
I hope he gets an attack coach at least.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:46 pm 
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Jim Lahey wrote:
unseenwork wrote:
You wonder what'll happen when Baloucoune comes back for Ulster, how sure Stockdale can be of his place with these defensive woes.


Ive hope for Stockdale moving to 15 at Ulster with Balacoune and Lyttle on the wings.


I don't think he has the decision making ability for it. He may develop more nous in time but I would be surprised. He's an instinctive finisher and a bloody good one - I think his best role is and will always be on the wing.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:48 pm 
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Floppykid wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
We peaked a year too early.

NZ were excellent and we couldn't live with them.

Hopefully Farrell is allowed build a new team now, in his own likeness.

It was his defence that got, I'm presuming based on the score, eviscerated out there.
I hope he gets an attack coach at least.

The team just didn't fire against a Kiwi team that did from the first minute.

It's difficult to blame either defence or attack or individual players. We just didn't show up.

And I am prepared to give Farrell the benefit of the doubt until we see what HIS team does.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:52 pm 
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Mullet 2 wrote:
I just don't know anymore.

I'm too depressed to see the future. But I stand by it, every position come February should so on current form.

Literally as long as I can remember it's been harder to get off this team than get on it.


It seems to be with every coach as well. Perhaps questions need to start being asked about the structures and influences around the head coaches because the same mistakes keep getting repeated.

Joe Schmidt played some of the most expansive and exciting rugby Europe has ever seen with Clermont and then Leinster. Gets the Irish job and immediately entrenches himself in dour, conservative and yes at times, effective selection and gameplay.

Fúck playing to our traditional strengths because 7 lost quarter finals say our strengths aren't good enough. It's time to try something else.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:52 pm 
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Jim Lahey wrote:
danthefan wrote:
Brian9848 wrote:
Hansen also deserves a ton of credit. He had the balls to drop a 100 Test TH Owen Franks, then Reiko Ioane, arguably the best winger of 2018, and then move the best 10 in the game to full back and put complete newbies on the wing. Reece has only had one incomplete season of Super rugby.


All while we wring our hands about experience and he's the guy for the big game and you can't start Larmour and whatever else.


I called for Balcony Bob over Larmour before the game and got that one completely wrong, based on Bob being good in the air and being capable of producing a big performance. He did neither today (he was far from being the reason why we lost tbf) but Larmour looked like he might actually create something when he came on.


I was just using Larmour as an example. It was impossible for anyone to play themselves onto or off that team. That was the point I was trying to make.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:52 pm 
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camroc1 wrote:
Floppykid wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
We peaked a year too early.

NZ were excellent and we couldn't live with them.

Hopefully Farrell is allowed build a new team now, in his own likeness.

It was his defence that got, I'm presuming based on the score, eviscerated out there.
I hope he gets an attack coach at least.

The team just didn't fire against a Kiwi team that did from the first minute.

It's difficult to blame either defence or attack or individual players. We just didn't show up.

And I am prepared to give Farrell the benefit of the doubt until we see what HIS team does.

I'm heavily skeptical but let's see how forward thinking and ruthless he is in selection.
Biggest stage, where everyone is going all out and Ireland get stomped out at the QF again. The tournament that really matters.
We've been outperformed by Japan at this one. Ah well.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:53 pm 
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How'd Ruddock and Larmour do when they got on?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:54 pm 
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We never even fired a shot. That's the worst part of it. I thought we had a decent chance of a win but result aside I was sure we would turn up and give it a serious lash...but we didn't...and that is f**king unforgivable.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:54 pm 
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Floppykid wrote:
How'd Ruddock and Larmour do when they got on?


They made an impact, as did Killer and Carberry I thought. NZ had well and truly lost focus at that stage though in fairness.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 3:57 pm 
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Not convinced Earls was fit at all this tournament. Henshaw definitely should have been sent home based on his outings, wasn’t match fit at all.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 4:01 pm 
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Winnie wrote:
Brian9848 wrote:
Hansen also deserves a ton of credit. He had the balls to drop a 100 Test TH Owen Franks, then Reiko Ioane, arguably the best winger of 2018, and then move the best 10 in the game to full back and put complete newbies on the wing. Reece has only had one incomplete season of Super rugby.

Amazing things happen when you dont have your undroppable favourites
Players play with a fear that if their performance is not up to the mark they dont get the shirt next week

I know we are all engaged in much needed venting, but then what explains the performances of our 12, 13.. the mistakes, the dropped balls, the defensive lapses given that they were the ones most unsure of selection? Everyone today was shite when faced with the speed of the ABs, as we were when confronted by the pace of Japanese ball. We've reached the point where we are now getting blown away by teams which offer either pace or power, and yet we are still loathe to take any risks.

Our identity has become slow, ponderous, predictable and risk averse. Mike Catt is a decent coach according to lads I know who have been coached by him, and he is certainly a great guy to have a beer with, but is he going to bring the type of innovation we need?

Everything about Ireland's game was getting back to structure..and more structure, as quickly as possible. We have had ZERO transition or counter-attacking game, which is where teams like NZ make their coin. A few months ago James Lowe remarked on a podcast that he couldn't believe how the Leinster SCT sides played...i.e. so much structure, and more than Super Sides he has been involved with, so it's at every level of our game. Maybe Schmidt determined that was the only way Ireland would win given the player profile we had, but we haven't.. again...and when our structures break down, we have nothing else... no offloading game, no transition from kick return to sole blistering attack like NZ and Aus. We really need to add them to our game.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 4:01 pm 
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crouchy wrote:
Not convinced Earls was fit at all this tournament. Henshaw definitely should have been sent home based on his outings, wasn’t match fit at all.

Earls, like a few others, is probably just too old.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 4:02 pm 
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Floppykid wrote:
crouchy wrote:
Not convinced Earls was fit at all this tournament. Henshaw definitely should have been sent home based on his outings, wasn’t match fit at all.

Earls, like a few others, is probably just too old.


I can't get over how bad he is at passing a rugby ball.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 4:03 pm 
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Oh. I forgot about Mike Catt.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 4:03 pm 
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danthefan wrote:
Floppykid wrote:
crouchy wrote:
Not convinced Earls was fit at all this tournament. Henshaw definitely should have been sent home based on his outings, wasn’t match fit at all.

Earls, like a few others, is probably just too old.


I can't get over how bad he is at passing a rugby ball.

In 2018 he had some really great passes if I remember right


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 4:05 pm 
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Winnie wrote:
HighKingLeinster wrote:
Winnie wrote:
CM11 wrote:
Back five of the pack are currently down for 61 tackles, 1 missed (POM!).

Nearly all the missed tackles in the backs. Stockdale leading the charge with 5.

Ulster tinted specs only go so far
Got to admit Stockdale is very very poor defensively
Its like watching a schoolboy
He doesnt know where he should be standing or who his man is
Going forward he can be devastating, but defensively he is a bit of a liability

He's the Irish Cuthbert

Harsh

His career has certainly stalled
I hope it hasnt peaked as he is a lethal finisher

Which makes the whole coaching set up so frustrating
We need a new man with new ideas to come in


Well we're getting the mastermind of today's defence to run the whole show for the next while, so let's get used to that idea.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 4:07 pm 
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Again, this is the tournament that really matters.
Ireland get slapped around again.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 4:08 pm 
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The lads played today like they were still sore from playing Samoa.
If we had beaten Japan we’d have rotated our team against Samoa (like contenders do) and played SA who we probably had planned for.

Our q/f was lost in the Japan match.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 4:09 pm 
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Floppykid wrote:
danthefan wrote:
Floppykid wrote:
crouchy wrote:
Not convinced Earls was fit at all this tournament. Henshaw definitely should have been sent home based on his outings, wasn’t match fit at all.

Earls, like a few others, is probably just too old.


I can't get over how bad he is at passing a rugby ball.

In 2018 he had some really great passes if I remember right


When Earls was at the peak of his great form a year or so ago, I remember reading an interview with him saying how he had learned to play for the love of the game a bit more, to relax and enjoy his rugby rather than putting the relentless pressure on himself that he'd been guilty of earlier in his career.

Every time I've seen him this year he's looked like he's got the weight of the world on his shoulders. He feels like he's thrown out what has been working for him mentally, and gone back to the pressure he was putting himself under before and that he clearly doesn't deal with well.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 4:09 pm 
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Jim Lahey wrote:
danthefan wrote:
Brian9848 wrote:
Hansen also deserves a ton of credit. He had the balls to drop a 100 Test TH Owen Franks, then Reiko Ioane, arguably the best winger of 2018, and then move the best 10 in the game to full back and put complete newbies on the wing. Reece has only had one incomplete season of Super rugby.


All while we wring our hands about experience and he's the guy for the big game and you can't start Larmour and whatever else.


I called for Balcony Bob over Larmour before the game and got that one completely wrong, based on Bob being good in the air and being capable of producing a big performance. He did neither today (he was far from being the reason why we lost tbf) but Larmour looked like he might actually create something when he came on.


If we had a game next week, with Larmour and Conway to come into the back 3, Kearney's not the one who'd be worried.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 4:10 pm 
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Flametop wrote:
The lads played today like they were still sore from playing Samoa.
If we had beaten Japan we’d have rotated our team against Samoa (like contenders do) and played SA who we probably had planned for.

Our q/f was lost in the Japan match.

Nah, they're pro player who've been given armchair rides to the world cup. Fatigue isn't an excuse.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 4:12 pm 
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Not even like we even lose quarter-finals narrowly. We generally get completely stuffed in them. Depressing.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 4:12 pm 
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camroc1 wrote:
Floppykid wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
We peaked a year too early.

NZ were excellent and we couldn't live with them.

Hopefully Farrell is allowed build a new team now, in his own likeness.

It was his defence that got, I'm presuming based on the score, eviscerated out there.
I hope he gets an attack coach at least.

The team just didn't fire against a Kiwi team that did from the first minute.

It's difficult to blame either defence or attack or individual players. We just didn't show up.

And I am prepared to give Farrell the benefit of the doubt until we see what HIS team does.

This is the biggest game any of those players ever played. So have to think that they were so emotionally and physically primed, only to be completely outplayed and couldn't live with the pace of the game and adjust to what NZ was throwing at them. So I'd say our fire was there; it was just blown away. NZ attacked and dominated us on both sides of the ball because they read too easily what we were trying to do. At every ruck, Smith was looking up and making a snap decision which side to go based up the what he was seeing (and who was calling for the ball).. blind, open, narrow, wide...nothing too crazy or complicated. Just good rugby players armed with tactics dreamed up by their coaches and then making decisions on the fly .


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2019 4:17 pm 
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IBWT wrote:
Not even like we even lose quarter-finals narrowly. We generally get completely stuffed in them. Depressing.


I was there in Lansdowne in '91, when Gordon Hamilton scored.



It's really sad that that's still our best QF performance, because that was an actual dogshit Ireland team, some genuinely not-international-quality players, coached by bluffers. Any other Ireland RWC side since would put 40 on them (even the Lens team). But they were within 2 minutes of putting out the eventual champions.


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