Chat Forum
It is currently Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:27 pm

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 90 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:20 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 7152
Except for booze, which these days doesn't cost me much, I tend to buy the supermarket brand of goods. Yesterday my son used my cheap shaving gel (£1 a tin), and he said that it was just as good as his Gillette ego massaging stuff at £2.50 a go. I'm never sure if my sons' generation tend to brand loyalty because they genuinely think it's better, or because they haven't yet seen the advantages of stinginess. (BTW, I buy meat from the local butchers, all locally sourced - different set of rules)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:26 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 14573
I shop at Aldi generally, their fruit and veg is actually better than the local Tesco.

I used the local butcher and fishmonger in Churchtown, Fatty might now them.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:40 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:59 pm
Posts: 1189
I tend to assume brands are the best and people who say supermarket equivalents are as good don't know the difference. I'm aware of the possibility that I think this because I don't know the difference. A case in point is Aldi's vodka which I wrote off as kerosine but which just won a world vodka prize.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:47 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 39365
I will not buy supermarket brands because I know that the supermarket has these goods produced at a price below the profit line by small local producers.at least that is how Japanese supermarkets operate.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:48 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:44 pm
Posts: 37435
Location: For Wales the Welsh and Leinster
Sefton wrote:
I shop at Aldi generally, their fruit and veg is actually better than the local Tesco.

I used the local butcher and fishmonger in Churchtown, Fatty might now them.

You live in a gilded cage. Faux middle class with tree lined streets and poxy wine bars.
However the Fishmongers and Butchers are excellent.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:49 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 57692
Lidl for bread and coffee, Aldi for bits and bins plus food ready meals, Tesco for most other stuff.

Top tip is Aldi shower gel, 87p And excellent, I combine with a splash of Moulton brown for value and luxury....


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 8214
bimboman wrote:
Lidl for bread and coffee, Aldi for bits and bins plus food ready meals, Tesco for most other stuff.

Top tip is Aldi shower gel, 87p And excellent, I combine with a splash of Moulton brown for value and luxury....

Lidl meat is so much better quality than Tescos, IMO.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:04 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 57692
Willie Falloon wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Lidl for bread and coffee, Aldi for bits and bins plus food ready meals, Tesco for most other stuff.

Top tip is Aldi shower gel, 87p And excellent, I combine with a splash of Moulton brown for value and luxury....

Lidl meat is so much better quality than Tescos, IMO.



Not here for chickens , which along with Veal mince is the only meat I buy from supermarkets.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:04 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 11276
Location: Mostly London........Mostly
Rancid Globus bait.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:10 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:59 pm
Posts: 1189
bimboman wrote:
Lidl for bread and coffee, Aldi for bits and bins plus food ready meals, Tesco for most other stuff.

Top tip is Aldi shower gel, 87p And excellent, I combine with a splash of Moulton brown for value and luxury....


Moulton brown... is that an ale?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:24 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 57692
6.Jones wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Lidl for bread and coffee, Aldi for bits and bins plus food ready meals, Tesco for most other stuff.

Top tip is Aldi shower gel, 87p And excellent, I combine with a splash of Moulton brown for value and luxury....


Moulton brown... is that an ale?



A mis spelling.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 3:09 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 4859
Willie Falloon wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Lidl for bread and coffee, Aldi for bits and bins plus food ready meals, Tesco for most other stuff.

Top tip is Aldi shower gel, 87p And excellent, I combine with a splash of Moulton brown for value and luxury....

Lidl meat is so much better quality than Tescos, IMO.


Do you not farm your own meat?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 3:09 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:59 pm
Posts: 1189
bimboman wrote:
6.Jones wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Lidl for bread and coffee, Aldi for bits and bins plus food ready meals, Tesco for most other stuff.

Top tip is Aldi shower gel, 87p And excellent, I combine with a splash of Moulton brown for value and luxury....


Moulton brown... is that an ale?



A mis spelling.

Damn. I thought I'd discovered a beauty secret.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 3:21 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 6603
Location: Shangri-La
Gwenno wrote:
Except for booze, which these days doesn't cost me much, I tend to buy the supermarket brand of goods. Yesterday my son used my cheap shaving gel (£1 a tin), and he said that it was just as good as his Gillette ego massaging stuff at £2.50 a go. I'm never sure if my sons' generation tend to brand loyalty because they genuinely think it's better, or because they haven't yet seen the advantages of stinginess. (BTW, I buy meat from the local butchers, all locally sourced - different set of rules)



I found when I started buying better quality meat I started to think more about what I did with it, making nicer meals and eating less meat. Its the way forward


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 4:03 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 6727
Location: LOL! WISDOM!
Lidl for washing clothes and dishes, Waitrose for bread, home bargains for branded soaps and shampoos, butchers for decent butchered stuff, and aldi for everything else.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 4:05 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 18559
So, brand versus own label, is sort of a speciality of mine. For food, in blind taste tests the own label often does better than brands. However, remember that as in all things in life, things are cheap for a reason. If you casually ignore the fact own label won’t have to advertise their brand of teabag or range juice to the extent Tropicana or PG tips does, then there are several reasons why own label can be sold cheaper, a non extensive list is:

1. Brand labels may have higher standards, meaning that your Lidl own label fruit or loaf may have more Rat shit on it
2. Brands may have rtighter shelf life requirements - certain factories take out of date brand label produce, and put it into a own brand box.
3, vertical supply chain - a brand is more likely to have fully sourced and vetted stages of supply chain, with less likelyhood of Chinese prisoners packing your Xmas cards or you actually eating horse meat
3. Brands may use better quality ingredients, for example pg tips uses top grade tea leaves in its blend and is formulated to a taste, whereas Aldi teabags are made from cheap grade 7 tea and will be formulated to a price (is using whatever crops happen to be cheap at the moment)

None of the above means own brand is any less safe for human consumption, just depends if you want to consume old rat shit or not. Personally, having seen how food is produced, I nearly always pay extra for brands.

Also please not my use of the word ‘may’, it also happens when own label is in fact made to better standards in cleaner factories than branded stuff. All depends on individual products.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 4:20 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:10 am
Posts: 916
Aldi's stuff is really good. Their mayonnaise, 'branston' pickle, all taste the same as the branded equivalents. I don't know how they get away with the blatant copying. Even their steak is aged properly and UK sourced. Must have saved ten of thousands over the years.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 4:52 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 30717
Sefton wrote:
I shop at Aldi generally, their fruit and veg is actually better than the local Tesco.

I used the local butcher and fishmonger in Churchtown, Fatty might now them.


Any time I’ve bought fruit and veg in Aldi it is very hit and miss - goes off very quickly. M&S seem to do the highest quality fruit at least.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 5:27 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 7152
ChipSpike wrote:
Aldi's stuff is really good. Their mayonnaise, 'branston' pickle, all taste the same as the branded equivalents. I don't know how they get away with the blatant copying. Even their steak is aged properly and UK sourced. Must have saved ten of thousands over the years.

Ditto. Isn't it a little oversuspicious to assume that non branded staff has got rat shit in it? I though that that was what food standards were for?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 5:39 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 26615
Location: Chickenrunning...
Gwenno wrote:
ChipSpike wrote:
Aldi's stuff is really good. Their mayonnaise, 'branston' pickle, all taste the same as the branded equivalents. I don't know how they get away with the blatant copying. Even their steak is aged properly and UK sourced. Must have saved ten of thousands over the years.

Ditto. Isn't it a little oversuspicious to assume that non branded staff has got rat shit in it? I though that that was what food standards were for?

Yeeb works for Unilever where brands are everything! They always try to slag off their competition.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 5:39 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 7620
You guys have a lot of patience
I will literally kill myself if i had to grocery shop at more than one place


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:04 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 18559
Sandstorm wrote:
Gwenno wrote:
ChipSpike wrote:
Aldi's stuff is really good. Their mayonnaise, 'branston' pickle, all taste the same as the branded equivalents. I don't know how they get away with the blatant copying. Even their steak is aged properly and UK sourced. Must have saved ten of thousands over the years.

Ditto. Isn't it a little oversuspicious to assume that non branded staff has got rat shit in it? I though that that was what food standards were for?

Yeeb works for Unilever where brands are everything! They always try to slag off their competition.


I left Unilever over a year ago, nice try - am in pharma now.
Food standards permit X amount of foreign animal parts per million so whilst quite safe to consume , own brand bread or whatever may indeed have more animal bits and poop in.

Doesn’t always mean brands are better, they used to own Flora and their factories were significantly older than the one in Gloucester (I think) that made marg for Tesco and JS. For example, Unilever machines lacked magnets that would pick up any steel bolts that came off during production runs.

Just remember though , cheap things are usually cheap for a reason, so if you are happy to buy and consume shops own brand food, good luck to you, and ignore random internet people who regularly visit food production sites and their claims of preferring to stick to brands :thumbup:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:27 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:10 am
Posts: 916
backrow wrote:
Sandstorm wrote:
Gwenno wrote:
ChipSpike wrote:
Aldi's stuff is really good. Their mayonnaise, 'branston' pickle, all taste the same as the branded equivalents. I don't know how they get away with the blatant copying. Even their steak is aged properly and UK sourced. Must have saved ten of thousands over the years.

Ditto. Isn't it a little oversuspicious to assume that non branded staff has got rat shit in it? I though that that was what food standards were for?

Yeeb works for Unilever where brands are everything! They always try to slag off their competition.


I left Unilever over a year ago, nice try - am in pharma now.
Food standards permit X amount of foreign animal parts per million so whilst quite safe to consume , own brand bread or whatever may indeed have more animal bits and poop in.

Doesn’t always mean brands are better, they used to own Flora and their factories were significantly older than the one in Gloucester (I think) that made marg for Tesco and JS. For example, Unilever machines lacked magnets that would pick up any steel bolts that came off during production runs.

Just remember though , cheap things are usually cheap for a reason, so if you are happy to buy and consume shops own brand food, good luck to you, and ignore random internet people who regularly visit food production sites and their claims of preferring to stick to brands :thumbup:


From what I can recall, Aldi's model is stacking fewer product lines (c 2000 vs 40,000 for regular supermarkets)
and using efficiency and economy of scale.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:31 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 18559
Aldi also are far more willing to sell competitor products and baulk at at lot of the prices Unilever et al demand.
Their economies of scale are still dwarfed in the uk by the volumes a Tesco or JS shift though.

Their real estate is often far cheaper too so have lower overheads in part , which is why sometimes their stores are not quite as well located as a main supermarket.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:33 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 6727
Location: LOL! WISDOM!
ChipSpike wrote:
backrow wrote:
Sandstorm wrote:
Gwenno wrote:
ChipSpike wrote:
Aldi's stuff is really good. Their mayonnaise, 'branston' pickle, all taste the same as the branded equivalents. I don't know how they get away with the blatant copying. Even their steak is aged properly and UK sourced. Must have saved ten of thousands over the years.

Ditto. Isn't it a little oversuspicious to assume that non branded staff has got rat shit in it? I though that that was what food standards were for?

Yeeb works for Unilever where brands are everything! They always try to slag off their competition.


I left Unilever over a year ago, nice try - am in pharma now.
Food standards permit X amount of foreign animal parts per million so whilst quite safe to consume , own brand bread or whatever may indeed have more animal bits and poop in.

Doesn’t always mean brands are better, they used to own Flora and their factories were significantly older than the one in Gloucester (I think) that made marg for Tesco and JS. For example, Unilever machines lacked magnets that would pick up any steel bolts that came off during production runs.

Just remember though , cheap things are usually cheap for a reason, so if you are happy to buy and consume shops own brand food, good luck to you, and ignore random internet people who regularly visit food production sites and their claims of preferring to stick to brands :thumbup:


From what I can recall, Aldi's model is stacking fewer product lines (c 2000 vs 40,000 for regular supermarkets)
and using efficiency and economy of scale.

Either that or they pad their product rat shit to make it cheaper.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 7152
I suspect that my £1 shaving gel is fairly safe from rat shit though? Taking the 'dearest is best' attitude to ludicrous extremes would mean that you would just have to raise your price above your competitor's to outsell it, and prices wouldn't just keep rising.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:47 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 30717
Gwenno wrote:
I suspect that my £1 shaving gel is fairly safe from rat shit though? Taking the 'dearest is best' attitude to ludicrous extremes would mean that you would just have to raise your price above your competitor's to outsell it, and prices wouldn't just keep rising.

Yeah you’re just paying for Gillette’s stupid woke ad campaigns


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:56 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 6603
Location: Shangri-La
ChipSpike wrote:
Aldi's stuff is really good. Their mayonnaise, 'branston' pickle, all taste the same as the branded equivalents. I don't know how they get away with the blatant copying. Even their steak is aged properly and UK sourced. Must have saved ten of thousands over the years.


It isn't always copying. The unbranded stuff can be made in the same factory as the branded stuff (at least that was the case 25 years ago). Some people will only buy the cheap stuff and some people will only buy brands so it makes sense to sell to both, especially as they both vastly outnumber cost aware people who check the quality and buy on a combination of cost and quality.

As a student I worked in an off licence during the summer but it was also work experience so I got to work in both the shops and head office where there was also an importing business. We sold drinkable Stubbies of French lager at about 40p a bottle and then the exact same lager in the exact same bottle with a yellow own brand label for 30p a bottle. Of the students I knew and informed it was exactly the same drink, more world buy the more expensive one with the nicer label because they wouldn't dare go to a house party with the cheaper looking stuff.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:10 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 7152
MrJonno wrote:
ChipSpike wrote:
Aldi's stuff is really good. Their mayonnaise, 'branston' pickle, all taste the same as the branded equivalents. I don't know how they get away with the blatant copying. Even their steak is aged properly and UK sourced. Must have saved ten of thousands over the years.


It isn't always copying. The unbranded stuff can be made in the same factory as the branded stuff (at least that was the case 25 years ago). Some people will only buy the cheap stuff and some people will only buy brands so it makes sense to sell to both, especially as they both vastly outnumber cost aware people who check the quality and buy on a combination of cost and quality.

As a student I worked in an off licence during the summer but it was also work experience so I got to work in both the shops and head office where there was also an importing business. We sold drinkable Stubbies of French lager at about 40p a bottle and then the exact same lager in the exact same bottle with a yellow own brand label for 30p a bottle. Of the students I knew and informed it was exactly the same drink, more world buy the more expensive one with the nicer label because they wouldn't dare go to a house party with the cheaper looking stuff.

I'm not so stingy that I buy the cheapest product every time - I suppose I'm in the cost aware group as described above. Nevertheless it results in about two thirds of what I buy being the supermarket version, compared with about 5% when my wife does.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:08 pm 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:58 am
Posts: 1464
Location: Christchurch
I buy whatever is cheapest, sometimes its the supermarket brand sometimes its the label. Craft beers and wine from the supermarket too.

Local Butchery for meat, local produce or farmers market for veges and cheese.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:37 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 18147
Location: Centre of the Universe
I also buy whatever's cheapest. I can't think of anything I'm 'brand loyal' to...

A friend used to work in the lab at a big Canadian food producer. She said they made several brand name jams and sauces, but also provided the supermarket label stuff as well, just with the slightest tweaks of the recipe.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:11 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 18365
Location: End of the road, turn right and first house on the left
Mumsnet called - again. They want their posters back or else there will be no tea tonight


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:45 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2016 1:50 am
Posts: 4322
Hmmmm, marketing people claiming branded items are superior?

:lol: :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:51 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 11623
Location: Austin, TX
Shaving cream? Wtf you pussies. I just use the blood from my shaving cuts as lubrication.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:53 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2016 1:50 am
Posts: 4322
True Blue wrote:
Shaving cream? Wtf you pussies. I just use the blood from my shaving cuts as lubrication.


TBF that totally happens after changing blades on a safety razor x(


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:36 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:45 am
Posts: 2414
Pat the Ex Mat wrote:
Hmmmm, marketing people claiming branded items are superior?

:lol: :lol:


They definitely are for some items.

Coles brand canned tuna v John West canned tuna. No contest. The Coles brand must be the offcuts and bits that don't make it into the John West ones. The flavour and mouth feel difference is night and day.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:40 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2016 1:50 am
Posts: 4322
I've done a few blind testings for market research. It's surprising how the results are often the opposite of that.

The reason Aldi do well is they know this and advertise this


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:46 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:45 am
Posts: 2414
Pat the Ex Mat wrote:
I've done a few blind testings for market research. It's surprising how the results are often the opposite of that.

The reason Aldi do well is they know this and advertise this


Sure. But not for Tuna.

Coles brand bodywash and shampoo, probably the same as the branded stuff, but basic foodstuffs, I don't find the QA to be as good, personally.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:57 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 19535
Location: A vacant lot next to a pile of rubble
Kiwias wrote:
I will not buy supermarket brands because I know that the supermarket has these goods produced at a price below the profit line by small local producers.at least that is how Japanese supermarkets operate.


I suspect they've often nicked the idea off the small producer as well which can sometimes send them under if they're using a different provider.

But some things are the same product with a different label. Much of the milk in NZ for example. They just change the label roll and keep on filling from the same bulk tank.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:29 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 18559
Pat the Ex Mat wrote:
Hmmmm, marketing people claiming branded items are superior?

:lol: :lol:


Except I’m not in marketing, and I said ‘ may be superior’
I also do blind taste tests and the brands do come out on top for the majority of times , only if you are not in the trade it’s not newsworthy so you don’t hear about it. There are many ways in which you can measure and define what superior means to you, if price is the main factor then buy own brand , if ingredients, taste and quality of supply chain is important , perhaps buy the brand.

Best thing is just to buy what you enjoy and want to :thumbup:


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 90 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: A5D5E5, BecomingtheMoon, danthefan, Deadtigers, DragsterDriver, flaggETERNAL, Floppykid, Flyin Ryan, Gavin Duffy, Google Adsense [Bot], iarmhiman, JPNZ, Lobby, lorcanoworms, Monk Zombie, Mr. Very Popular, New guy, nuffsaid, penguin, Raggs, redderneck, Risteard, RodneyRegis, Salanya, Theflier, The Man Without Fear, UncleFB, Womack and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group