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 Post subject: Hogg slags SBW...
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:33 am 
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Rugby: Scotland star Stuart Hogg claims Sonny Bill Williams didn't care enough about All Blacks Scottish rugby star Stuart Hogg has bizarrely taken aim at Sonny Bill Williams, claiming that he didn't care enough about the All Blacks' failure to win the Rugby World Cup.
Williams had claimed it only took him 'five to ten minutes' to get over the All Blacks' 19-7 semifinal defeat to England, something Hogg – talking about Williams' comments for reasons we have yet to ascertain – took exception to when speaking ahead of his game for the Exeter Chiefs over the weekend.

Hogg told the Daily Mail that he'd be "very annoyed" if one of his Scottish teammates had said something similar following their exit from the World Cup in pool play."If you're in that situation you don't care enough. You've got to care about your own performance, you've got to care about your team's performance and you've got to care about the environment you're in."I think that ultimately will come out in your performance. If you're not caring then, ultimately, what's the point in being there?"


Williams, who recently signed a record-breaking $10 million deal to return to rugby league with the Toronto Wolfpack, said that his Islamic faith helped him move on, and that he was able to put defeat into perspective.
"The whistle blew, I turned and straight away in my head I was like 'thank you to my creator for being here'," he said.
"But there is another brother in the team, Ofa Tuungafasi, and he turned to me before I said it and said [the same]. I was like 'Yo! Let's start moving forward'.
"I guess some people would look at me and think, "Look at this d***head, he doesn't even care... [but] in my journey in life, I have been through a lot tougher situations and hurdles than losing a bloody game of football."

However, Hogg argued that Williams is merely content to play wherever he would have the biggest platform, or salary.
"For me, I think Sonny Bill's mind is off it for other reasons and I think he's pretty happy with what's going to be in his bank account by the sounds of it.
"I love everything he's done, but I've always found that he's always in the biggest competitions possible.
"You look at him and he's gone to the Rugby World Cup, then went to a Rugby League World Cup, then went to another Rugby World Cup, then did boxing, tried to go to the Olympics, this that and the other."


Lots of jalopy there from the Scottish loser. At least SBW has never lost to Japan.

Hoggs trophy cabinet is full of moths and spider webs, compared to SBWs, which is bursting with his Union and League trophies.

What a tosser, Mr Hogg.


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 Post subject: Re: Hogg slags SBW...
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:44 am 
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An interesting theological dispute. On the one hand, SBW concluding that God has willed it, on the other Hogg in the putative role of Lawrence of Arabia screaming "nothing is written!" I wonder if there is a Calvinist past in Hogg's background though, and his fate in the afterlife is predestined - but he has free will to shape his destiny on earth before an eternity of hard protestant fire and brimstone in hell.

Some things to ponder, before I default into outraged Kiwi mode.


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 Post subject: Re: Hogg slags SBW...
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:46 am 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
An interesting theological dispute. On the one hand, SBW concluding that God has willed it, on the other Hogg in the putative role of Lawrence of Arabia screaming "nothing is written!" I wonder if there is a Calvinist past in Hogg's background though, and his fate in the afterlife is predestined - but he has free will to shape his destiny on earth before an eternity of hard protestant fire and brimstone in hell.

Some things to ponder, before I default into outraged Kiwi mode.


:lol: :thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: Hogg slags SBW...
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:53 am 
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obelixtim wrote:
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Rugby: Scotland star Stuart Hogg claims Sonny Bill Williams didn't care enough about All Blacks Scottish rugby star Stuart Hogg has bizarrely taken aim at Sonny Bill Williams, claiming that he didn't care enough about the All Blacks' failure to win the Rugby World Cup.
Williams had claimed it only took him 'five to ten minutes' to get over the All Blacks' 19-7 semifinal defeat to England, something Hogg – talking about Williams' comments for reasons we have yet to ascertain – took exception to when speaking ahead of his game for the Exeter Chiefs over the weekend.

Hogg told the Daily Mail that he'd be "very annoyed" if one of his Scottish teammates had said something similar following their exit from the World Cup in pool play."If you're in that situation you don't care enough. You've got to care about your own performance, you've got to care about your team's performance and you've got to care about the environment you're in."I think that ultimately will come out in your performance. If you're not caring then, ultimately, what's the point in being there?"


Williams, who recently signed a record-breaking $10 million deal to return to rugby league with the Toronto Wolfpack, said that his Islamic faith helped him move on, and that he was able to put defeat into perspective.
"The whistle blew, I turned and straight away in my head I was like 'thank you to my creator for being here'," he said.
"But there is another brother in the team, Ofa Tuungafasi, and he turned to me before I said it and said [the same]. I was like 'Yo! Let's start moving forward'.
"I guess some people would look at me and think, "Look at this d***head, he doesn't even care... [but] in my journey in life, I have been through a lot tougher situations and hurdles than losing a bloody game of football."

However, Hogg argued that Williams is merely content to play wherever he would have the biggest platform, or salary.
"For me, I think Sonny Bill's mind is off it for other reasons and I think he's pretty happy with what's going to be in his bank account by the sounds of it.
"I love everything he's done, but I've always found that he's always in the biggest competitions possible.
"You look at him and he's gone to the Rugby World Cup, then went to a Rugby League World Cup, then went to another Rugby World Cup, then did boxing, tried to go to the Olympics, this that and the other."

Lots of jalopy there from the Scottish loser. At least SBW has never lost to Japan.

Hoggs trophy cabinet is full of moths and spider webs, compared to SBWs, which is bursting with his Union and League trophies.

What a tosser, Mr Hogg.


Which is what your comments say about you, imo.


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 Post subject: Re: Hogg slags SBW...
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:01 am 
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Rather silly from Hogg. SBW has shown admirable perspective and, perhaps surprisingly, maturity in his reaction to the early exit. Sure, it helps that he’s already won everything he’s wanted to win a couple of times over, but it would probably help if some of his countrymen could look to his example of overcoming disappointment so well.

As for performance, I know who should be more disappointed about what they contributed on the paddock at this tournament.

And the money? I guess Hogg left Glasgow to become the marquee signing and highest paid Chief for the pure love of the game :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Hogg slags SBW...
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:01 am 
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Lessons on a winning mentality from a Scottish rugby player.

:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Hogg slags SBW...
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:30 am 
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naki wrote:
Rather silly from Hogg. SBW has shown admirable perspective and, perhaps surprisingly, maturity in his reaction to the early exit. Sure, it helps that he’s already won everything he’s wanted to win a couple of times over, but it would probably help if some of his countrymen could look to his example of overcoming disappointment so well.

As for performance, I know who should be more disappointed about what they contributed on the paddock at this tournament.

And the money? I guess Hogg left Glasgow to become the marquee signing and highest paid Chief for the pure love of the game :roll:

He got offered more elsewhere.


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 Post subject: Re: Hogg slags SBW...
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:31 am 
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OptimisticJock wrote:
naki wrote:
Rather silly from Hogg. SBW has shown admirable perspective and, perhaps surprisingly, maturity in his reaction to the early exit. Sure, it helps that he’s already won everything he’s wanted to win a couple of times over, but it would probably help if some of his countrymen could look to his example of overcoming disappointment so well.

As for performance, I know who should be more disappointed about what they contributed on the paddock at this tournament.

And the money? I guess Hogg left Glasgow to become the marquee signing and highest paid Chief for the pure love of the game :roll:

He got offered more elsewhere.


So has SBW in the past. French rugby vs NZ rugby?


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 Post subject: Re: Hogg slags SBW...
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:34 am 
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Hogg is right though. SBW has disrespect the ABs and rugby.


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 Post subject: Re: Hogg slags SBW...
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:39 am 
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Does anyone know SBW's views on the bushfires?


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 Post subject: Re: Hogg slags SBW...
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:43 am 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
Does anyone know SBW's views on the bushfires?


Too intelligent to divulge them, pious theocracy and sensitivity never were great bedfellows.


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 Post subject: Re: Hogg slags SBW...
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:49 am 
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As silly as it is Hogg is entitled to his opinion - I doubt SBW will be losing any sleep over it inshallah


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 Post subject: Re: Hogg slags SBW...
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:53 am 
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obelixtim wrote:
Quote:
Rugby: Scotland star Stuart Hogg claims Sonny Bill Williams didn't care enough about All Blacks Scottish rugby star Stuart Hogg has bizarrely taken aim at Sonny Bill Williams, claiming that he didn't care enough about the All Blacks' failure to win the Rugby World Cup.
Williams had claimed it only took him 'five to ten minutes' to get over the All Blacks' 19-7 semifinal defeat to England, something Hogg – talking about Williams' comments for reasons we have yet to ascertain – took exception to when speaking ahead of his game for the Exeter Chiefs over the weekend.

Hogg told the Daily Mail that he'd be "very annoyed" if one of his Scottish teammates had said something similar following their exit from the World Cup in pool play."If you're in that situation you don't care enough. You've got to care about your own performance, you've got to care about your team's performance and you've got to care about the environment you're in."I think that ultimately will come out in your performance. If you're not caring then, ultimately, what's the point in being there?"


Williams, who recently signed a record-breaking $10 million deal to return to rugby league with the Toronto Wolfpack, said that his Islamic faith helped him move on, and that he was able to put defeat into perspective.
"The whistle blew, I turned and straight away in my head I was like 'thank you to my creator for being here'," he said.
"But there is another brother in the team, Ofa Tuungafasi, and he turned to me before I said it and said [the same]. I was like 'Yo! Let's start moving forward'.
"I guess some people would look at me and think, "Look at this d***head, he doesn't even care... [but] in my journey in life, I have been through a lot tougher situations and hurdles than losing a bloody game of football."

However, Hogg argued that Williams is merely content to play wherever he would have the biggest platform, or salary.
"For me, I think Sonny Bill's mind is off it for other reasons and I think he's pretty happy with what's going to be in his bank account by the sounds of it.
"I love everything he's done, but I've always found that he's always in the biggest competitions possible.
"You look at him and he's gone to the Rugby World Cup, then went to a Rugby League World Cup, then went to another Rugby World Cup, then did boxing, tried to go to the Olympics, this that and the other."


Lots of jalopy there from the Scottish loser. At least SBW has never lost to Japan.

Hoggs trophy cabinet is full of moths and spider webs, compared to SBWs, which is bursting with his Union and League trophies.

What a tosser, Mr Hogg.


What does the number of trophies have to do with the validity of someones opinion? Talent and having a great team around you does not make your opinion more or less valid.


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 Post subject: Re: Hogg slags SBW...
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:02 am 
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:lol: Who the hell invited Hogg's opinion on this matter?


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 Post subject: Re: Hogg slags SBW...
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:16 am 
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Its interesting, because I view them as being on a similar ability plane, but because David Argyle has the desire to, and I quote the man 'rip the heart out of English rugby union' SBW will probably earn 10x more per year.

David Argyle is the really interesting character in this whole piece. There is very limited information out there. How did he make his money? What does he own? How much is he worth? Who are the other 9 mysterious wolfpack backers? There's the smell of a Nathan Tinker or Clive Palmer about him.


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 Post subject: Re: Hogg slags SBW...
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:17 am 
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Yeah SBW really does sound like a dick, I wouldnt be too impressed if one of my team mates was that uncommitted he couldnt care about one of the biggest New Zealand sporting loses in the last decade. Alot of the young guns would have been hurting pretty bad and its disrespectful to them to have a senior player just brush it off in his crusade to get the next highest pay cheque.

The guy was just a fancy super sub anyway. He wasnt really needed by the All Blacks and they would have won everything they did with or without him, the chiefs also didnt seem to need him to win a championship either. Players with no heart wouldnt be a big loss to the New Zealand environment anyway so its worked out good that he has moved on.


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 Post subject: Re: Hogg slags SBW...
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:53 am 
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Zakar wrote:
David Argyle is the really interesting character in this whole piece. There is very limited information out there. How did he make his money? What does he own? How much is he worth? Who are the other 9 mysterious wolfpack backers? There's the smell of a Nathan Tinker or Clive Palmer about him.

Good point.

Dunno his net worth, but he is Mr Potash.

I think there is only one other major Wolfpack shareholder.

https://www.msn.com/en-au/sport/rugby-l ... ar-BBWsIqg

Mr Argyle's audacious bid to shake up world rugby league started at the University of Michigan, where the Perth man earned his MBA, and played collegiate rugby union.

But setting up a union team to compete in European leagues was too difficult, so he formed Wolfpack with Canadian businessman Eric Perez in 2014.

...

Wolfpack's big dreams are bankrolled by the billions of dollars the Australian tycoon made as a mining investor all over the world.

He ran the Christmas Island phosphate mine in the late 1990s and early 2000s, and helped rehabilitate the damage mining did to the island.

Other mining, energy and agricultural projects took him to South America, Africa, Central Asia and Southeast Asia.

Later he joined hedge funds like Forbes & Manhattan Group and is now executive co-chairman of Brazil Potash, which plans to provide 30 per cent of Brazil's fertilizer.

Mr Argyle is already planning his next move, to buy a financially struggling English team and move it to Liverpool, and help open more in the U.S.

... 'I can see expansion rugby league teams in North America in a few years, cities such as Philadelphia. It is a wonderful sport,' he said in 2017.


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 Post subject: Re: Hogg slags SBW...
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:22 pm 
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Is he really on the board of Brazil Potash?

Their website says otherwise http://www.potassiodobrasil.com.br/quem-somos

It's all very mysterious. Nobody seems to know if he's a millionaire or Billionaire.


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 Post subject: Re: Hogg slags SBW...
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:53 pm 
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Where you are looking at a private company rather than a listed company, info is naturally more scarce.

Site here has him 'Executive Co-Chairman'. Also mentions bloke from your searching (which seems to be the pleb executives, not the board):

https://pitchbook.com/profiles/company/54575-02

Bloomberg lists a long line of positions for him here:

https://www.bloomberg.com/profile/person/16134496

I think he's got a few bob. Enough to run a park footy team featuring money bill, anyways.


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 Post subject: Re: Hogg slags SBW...
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 1:13 pm 
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obelixtim wrote:


Lots of jalopy there from the Scottish loser. At least SBW has never lost to Japan.

Hoggs trophy cabinet is full of moths and spider webs, compared to SBWs, which is bursting with his Union and League trophies.

What a tosser, Mr Hogg.


:roll:
That isn't true. I posted a link at the time.


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 Post subject: Re: Hogg slags SBW...
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:03 pm 
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MrDominator wrote:
Lessons on a winning mentality from a Scottish rugby player.

:lol:


Not surprisingly, it's as if you have totally missed his point.


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 Post subject: Re: Hogg slags SBW...
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:59 pm 
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Are we being critical of a player for employing what is essentially the same mentality as RWC winning coach Rassie Erasmus?


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 Post subject: Re: Hogg slags SBW...
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:52 pm 
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SBW is such a bandwagon whore.

Good riddance.

This was so predictable


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 Post subject: Re: Hogg slags SBW...
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:44 pm 
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kiap wrote:
I think he's got a few bob. Enough to run a park footy team featuring money bill, anyways.


No doubt. Resource wealth can be fleeting though.

It's a pity he's decided to go with League


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 Post subject: Re: Hogg slags SBW...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 1:18 am 
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mr bungle wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
An interesting theological dispute. On the one hand, SBW concluding that God has willed it, on the other Hogg in the putative role of Lawrence of Arabia screaming "nothing is written!" I wonder if there is a Calvinist past in Hogg's background though, and his fate in the afterlife is predestined - but he has free will to shape his destiny on earth before an eternity of hard protestant fire and brimstone in hell.

Some things to ponder, before I default into outraged Kiwi mode.


:lol: :thumbup:


I'd like to know if spirituality of a guardianship nature would have any effect, and does Sonny retain any of the aforementioned since declaring he never much liked Union anyway?

Otherwise, what he said. :nod: :thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: Hogg slags SBW...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 1:21 am 
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Zakar wrote:
Its interesting, because I view them as being on a similar ability plane, but because David Argyle has the desire to, and I quote the man 'rip the heart out of English rugby union' SBW will probably earn 10x more per year.

David Argyle is the really interesting character in this whole piece. There is very limited information out there. How did he make his money? What does he own? How much is he worth? Who are the other 9 mysterious wolfpack backers? There's the smell of a Nathan Tinker or Clive Palmer about him.



What the fudge does a pharmacist and a musician have to do with the price of fish?


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 Post subject: Re: Hogg slags SBW...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 1:24 am 
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Ted. wrote:
Zakar wrote:
Its interesting, because I view them as being on a similar ability plane, but because David Argyle has the desire to, and I quote the man 'rip the heart out of English rugby union' SBW will probably earn 10x more per year.

David Argyle is the really interesting character in this whole piece. There is very limited information out there. How did he make his money? What does he own? How much is he worth? Who are the other 9 mysterious wolfpack backers? There's the smell of a Nathan Tinker or Clive Palmer about him.



What the fudge does a pharmacist and a musician have to do with the price of fish?


You're a bit simple aren't you?


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 Post subject: Re: Hogg slags SBW...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 1:28 am 
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I'm sure 2x RWC winner, NRL Winner, and NZ Heavyweight Champion of the Universe is losing sleep over what Hogg has to say. SBW probably thinks he has an unclean name.


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 Post subject: Re: Hogg slags SBW...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 1:32 am 
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naki wrote:
And the money? I guess Hogg left Glasgow to become the marquee signing and highest paid Chief for the pure love of the game :roll:


Seriously? What a waste of money :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Hogg slags SBW...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 1:36 am 
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Zakar wrote:
kiap wrote:
I think he's got a few bob. Enough to run a park footy team featuring money bill, anyways.


No doubt. Resource wealth can be fleeting though.

It's a pity he's decided to go with League



He went to league because our code is not all that easy to buy into. Even if you are a billionaire.


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 Post subject: Re: Hogg slags SBW...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 1:44 am 
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matta25 wrote:
naki wrote:
And the money? I guess Hogg left Glasgow to become the marquee signing and highest paid Chief for the pure love of the game :roll:


Seriously? What a waste of money :lol:


Which of the Exeter's current squad should be on more? What would you say is a fair wage for Hogg?


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 Post subject: Re: Hogg slags SBW...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 1:45 am 
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Zakar wrote:
Ted. wrote:
Zakar wrote:
Its interesting, because I view them as being on a similar ability plane, but because David Argyle has the desire to, and I quote the man 'rip the heart out of English rugby union' SBW will probably earn 10x more per year.

David Argyle is the really interesting character in this whole piece. There is very limited information out there. How did he make his money? What does he own? How much is he worth? Who are the other 9 mysterious wolfpack backers? There's the smell of a Nathan Tinker or Clive Palmer about him.



What the fudge does a pharmacist and a musician have to do with the price of fish?


You're a bit simple aren't you?


Of course I am, but that's a woosh all the same.


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 Post subject: Re: Hogg slags SBW...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 1:48 am 
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wamberal99 wrote:
He went to league because our code is not all that easy to buy into. Even if you are a billionaire.

Depends if you just wanna buy a team, or a whole league.


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 Post subject: Re: Hogg slags SBW...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:14 am 
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kiap wrote:
wamberal99 wrote:
He went to league because our code is not all that easy to buy into. Even if you are a billionaire.

Depends if you just wanna buy a team, or a whole league.





Maybe I should have put it the other way around. He went to league because it is a lot easier to buy into than our code.



On the other hand, maybe we do need a billionaire to fund a whole new rugby league. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Hogg slags SBW...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 7:39 am 
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BlackMac wrote:
MrDominator wrote:
Lessons on a winning mentality from a Scottish rugby player.

:lol:


Not surprisingly, it's as if you have totally missed his point.


There's something almost beautiful in the incisiveness of Mr. D's trolling; I fear it may be you who have missed the point.

Hogg's point is worth nothing of course.


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 Post subject: Re: Hogg slags SBW...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:19 am 
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Hogg's point is worth more than anyone else's here. Well, unless you're a highly paid professional International rugby player who has competed in the World Cup.

Doesn't mean he's right but his 2c is worth more.

SBW has rubbed a great many people the wrong way. In the last thread some posters insisted he was actually a really great guy. Maybe. I dunno.


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 Post subject: Re: Hogg slags SBW...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:55 am 
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Mog The Almighty wrote:

SBW has rubbed a great many people the wrong way. In the last thread some posters insisted he was actually a really great guy. Maybe. I dunno.


He polarises people... success does that. I can't find fault with the guy myself... he's never put a foot wrong, his commitment has always been total, he's professional in all he does, humble and respectful on and off the field.

I think people hate the fact he's been able to code hop. It means something about disloyalty to them, perhaps... missing the point that he's been good enough at what he does to be able to choose when, how and with whom he does it. He's unique... absolute unit physically, non aggressive with it and just goes about doing his thing.

That shits some people. I reckon it's their issue, myself. Let them deal with it.


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 Post subject: Re: Hogg slags SBW...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:12 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
Mog The Almighty wrote:

SBW has rubbed a great many people the wrong way. In the last thread some posters insisted he was actually a really great guy. Maybe. I dunno.


He polarises people... success does that. I can't find fault with the guy myself... he's never put a foot wrong, his commitment has always been total, he's professional in all he does, humble and respectful on and off the field.

I think people hate the fact he's been able to code hop. It means something about disloyalty to them, perhaps... missing the point that he's been good enough at what he does to be able to choose when, how and with whom he does it. He's unique... absolute unit physically, non aggressive with it and just goes about doing his thing.

That shits some people. I reckon it's their issue, myself. Let them deal with it.


Agree, but he did still have toilet sex with Davie Warners wife (well before she met Warner). :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Hogg slags SBW...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:48 am 
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Sensible Stephen wrote:
guy smiley wrote:
Mog The Almighty wrote:

SBW has rubbed a great many people the wrong way. In the last thread some posters insisted he was actually a really great guy. Maybe. I dunno.


He polarises people... success does that. I can't find fault with the guy myself... he's never put a foot wrong, his commitment has always been total, he's professional in all he does, humble and respectful on and off the field.

I think people hate the fact he's been able to code hop. It means something about disloyalty to them, perhaps... missing the point that he's been good enough at what he does to be able to choose when, how and with whom he does it. He's unique... absolute unit physically, non aggressive with it and just goes about doing his thing.

That shits some people. I reckon it's their issue, myself. Let them deal with it.


Agree, but he did still have toilet sex with Davie Warners wife (well before she met Warner). :lol:


And she then couldn't cope with the Cobus from our cricket fans...


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 Post subject: Re: Hogg slags SBW...
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:57 am 
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guy smiley wrote:
Mog The Almighty wrote:

SBW has rubbed a great many people the wrong way. In the last thread some posters insisted he was actually a really great guy. Maybe. I dunno.


He polarises people... success does that. I can't find fault with the guy myself... he's never put a foot wrong, his commitment has always been total, he's professional in all he does, humble and respectful on and off the field.

I don't see any of that really. He hasn't shown much loyalty to his past clubs (notably the Bulldogs), which pissed off a lot of people. His glory-shot king hits get him in a lot of trouble, including an historical red card, and off the field he seems like a show boat who hangs out with dipshits. Like I said, other posters have insisted that "you don't know him" and if I did, then he's a great guy, which maybe true, because I don't know him. But he rubs people the wrong way for a reason, and it's not just because he's successful. Plenty of players have code-hopped without much problem.


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