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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 1:16 am 
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5 weeks into Super Rugby and the battle for the All Blacks no.12 jersey is red hot right now.

Anton Lienart-Brown is playing well for the Chiefs, and is arguably the closest thing we have to an incumbent, although Steve Hansen's obsession with rotation means that he doesn't really feel like our incumbent 12. He is very skilful, balanced player who has played very well at international level for the AB's.

Ngani Laumape was arguably the form 12 in last year's Super Rugby comp, and will be very keen to stake his claim for the All Black second five-eighth position. He brings a power game to the jersey that none of the other candidates can match.

IMO the form no.12 in the NZ conference is actually Jack Goodhue. He has been an absolute standout over the past three rounds of Super Rugby, in both attack and defense. However, he is the incumbent All Black centre and that's where Ian Foster may still prefer to utilise him.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 1:17 am 
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As long as we are not having this discussion in 2023.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 1:22 am 
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Laumape at 12. ALB and Goodhue shootout for 13.

You need that hard carrier on the inside because top teams will make their tackles. Once you cover ALB/Goodhue defensively, the backline doesnt offer much else. With Laumape you have the option of a battering ram.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 1:33 am 
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Goodhue/Ennor has to be the combo for the next 4 years. Sorry Lumpy. ALB has had his time, thanks mate wish you all the best up North.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 1:41 am 
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Kahu wrote:
Goodhue/Ennor has to be the combo for the next 4 years. Sorry Lumpy. ALB has had his time, thanks mate wish you all the best up North.

Are you day drunk?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 1:54 am 
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Uhhhh, what else is a man under a bridge in Wolloomooloo to do?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:24 am 
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Harry Plummer must be in the mix following his brilliant display at the weekend. 8)


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:26 am 
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Nankivell please.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:49 am 
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UncleFB wrote:
Kahu wrote:
Goodhue/Ennor has to be the combo for the next 4 years. Sorry Lumpy. ALB has had his time, thanks mate wish you all the best up North.

Are you day drunk?


This way lies madness.

ALB has been by far our most consistent centre since the Nonu/Smith duo fleeweed and will be one of Foster’s first picks short of some bolter really making an undeniable case this season.

However he is probably better suited to 13, as he doesn’t really offer either the second five/second player maker option OR the line-bending bosh merchant inside centre option that the ABs are going to need. What he does have is an ever growing defensive organisational ability, an excellent passing game, and great footwork - the kind of skill set you want from an outside centre.

Where that leaves Goodhue is interesting. As AC said, he’s taken to the 12 spot like he was born to play there. And anyone thinking that the centre combo, the same one that dominated the Boks and Irish at the WC, were the reason for our WC failure need to take a closer look at the lower numbers. Centre combos need real time together to really start firing, ALB and Goodhue haven’t had that

I’d be happy for Foster to continue with Goodhue and ALB in the mix, giving chances to Laumape and Ennor throughout the year. He won’t be worried about the centre stocks, it’s developing a brutal tight five that still has the requisite mobility that he should be concerned with


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:52 am 
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Kahu wrote:
Uhhhh, what else is a man under a bridge in Wolloomooloo to do?

:lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:02 am 
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naki wrote:
UncleFB wrote:
Kahu wrote:
Goodhue/Ennor has to be the combo for the next 4 years. Sorry Lumpy. ALB has had his time, thanks mate wish you all the best up North.

Are you day drunk?


This way lies madness.

ALB has been by far our most consistent centre since the Nonu/Smith duo fleeweed and will be one of Foster’s first picks short of some bolter really making an undeniable case this season.

However he is probably better suited to 13, as he doesn’t really offer either the second five/second player maker option OR the line-bending bosh merchant inside centre option that the ABs are going to need. What he does have is an ever growing defensive organisational ability, an excellent passing game, and great footwork - the kind of skill set you want from an outside centre.

Where that leaves Goodhue is interesting. As AC said, he’s taken to the 12 spot like he was born to play there. And anyone thinking that the centre combo, the same one that dominated the Boks and Irish at the WC, were the reason for our WC failure need to take a closer look at the lower numbers. Centre combos need real time together to really start firing, ALB and Goodhue haven’t had that

I’d be happy for Foster to continue with Goodhue and ALB in the mix, giving chances to Laumape and Ennor throughout the year. He won’t be worried about the centre stocks, it’s developing a brutal tight five that still has the requisite mobility that he should be concerned with


I want Foster to decide on his longterm midfield and pick them for every test for the next four years (barring injuries). The lessons of the last RWC cycle must be learnt, no more chopping and changing. No more rotation for rotation's sake. Sure, it might mean that one or two of the unlucky candidates leaves NZ to play easy rugby, but that's a price I am willing to pay to develop a settled midfield.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:02 am 
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UncleFB wrote:
Kahu wrote:
Uhhhh, what else is a man under a bridge in Wolloomooloo to do?

:lol:


A wee gem. :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:17 am 
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It has to be ALB/Goodhue with Laumape and Ennor rotating for the bench spot.

Goodhue was our best back in that semi-final & ALB was probably our best back throughout the tournament.

Just not sure who should wear what jersey. 12. Goodhue 13. ALB follows the Nonu/Smith route of a bigger body in the 12 jersey, and Goodhue has taken to 12 like a natural.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:30 am 
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It's a pretty easy question.

12. ALB
13. Goodhue

daylight between that and the alternative options


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:32 am 
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mrbrownstone wrote:
It has to be ALB/Goodhue with Laumape and Ennor rotating for the bench spot.

Goodhue was our best back in that semi-final & ALB was probably our best back throughout the tournament.

Just not sure who should wear what jersey. 12. Goodhue 13. ALB follows the Nonu/Smith route of a bigger body in the 12 jersey, and Goodhue has taken to 12 like a natural.


This is how I see it.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:40 am 
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Hansen and his sidekick (now head honcho) never did replace Carter/Nonu/Smith like for like post '015. Instead, they thrust upon us pale imitations and chancers (any combo you care to choose).
So this November it makes perfect sense to do the same again, let's offer up those England tight fivers and backrowers (now bigger, stronger, faster and more aggressive) a midfield they can rag-doll (again).
Goodhue's ya man so he is and oh, let's offer them as an aperitif Mo'unga at 10.
Hilarious...


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:43 am 
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Bayern wrote:
Hansen and his sidekick (now head honcho) never did replace Carter/Nonu/Smith like for like post '015. Instead, they thrust upon us pale imitations and chancers (any combo you care to choose).
So this November it makes perfect sense to do the same again, let's offer up those England tight fivers and backrowers (now bigger, stronger, faster and more aggressive) a midfield they can rag-doll (again).
Goodhue's ya man so he is and oh, let's offer them as an aperitif Mo'unga at 10.
Hilarious...


Oh dear me. Another berk who really does not understand why England beat the ABs in Japan.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:46 am 
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Kiwias wrote:
Bayern wrote:
Hansen and his sidekick (now head honcho) never did replace Carter/Nonu/Smith like for like post '015. Instead, they thrust upon us pale imitations and chancers (any combo you care to choose).
So this November it makes perfect sense to do the same again, let's offer up those England tight fivers and backrowers (now bigger, stronger, faster and more aggressive) a midfield they can rag-doll (again).
Goodhue's ya man so he is and oh, let's offer them as an aperitif Mo'unga at 10.
Hilarious...


Oh dear me. Another berk who really does not understand why England beat the ABs in Japan.



Whatever makes you feel better kiddo, I'm good with that...


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:51 am 
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Bayern wrote:
Kiwias wrote:
Bayern wrote:
Hansen and his sidekick (now head honcho) never did replace Carter/Nonu/Smith like for like post '015. Instead, they thrust upon us pale imitations and chancers (any combo you care to choose).
So this November it makes perfect sense to do the same again, let's offer up those England tight fivers and backrowers (now bigger, stronger, faster and more aggressive) a midfield they can rag-doll (again).
Goodhue's ya man so he is and oh, let's offer them as an aperitif Mo'unga at 10.
Hilarious...


Oh dear me. Another berk who really does not understand why England beat the ABs in Japan.



Whatever makes you feel better kiddo, I'm good with that...


Yep, it definitely was not because our forwards were beasted at the tackle and ruck and that the backs got very little good clean ball on the front foot. It was all because 10, 12, and 13 were ragdolled. Glad you clarified that.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:54 am 
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Time for ol' Bayern to put down the crack pipe and clean up his act.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:55 am 
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Sonny Blount wrote:
It's a pretty easy question.

12. ALB
13. Goodhue

daylight between that and the alternative options


I wonder whether swapping their numbers around makes them an even better combination?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:56 am 
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Kiwias wrote:
Bayern wrote:
Kiwias wrote:
Bayern wrote:
Hansen and his sidekick (now head honcho) never did replace Carter/Nonu/Smith like for like post '015. Instead, they thrust upon us pale imitations and chancers (any combo you care to choose).
So this November it makes perfect sense to do the same again, let's offer up those England tight fivers and backrowers (now bigger, stronger, faster and more aggressive) a midfield they can rag-doll (again).
Goodhue's ya man so he is and oh, let's offer them as an aperitif Mo'unga at 10.
Hilarious...


Oh dear me. Another berk who really does not understand why England beat the ABs in Japan.



Whatever makes you feel better kiddo, I'm good with that...


Yep, it definitely was not because our forwards were beasted at the tackle and ruck and that the backs got very little good clean ball on the front foot. It was all because 10, 12, and 13 were ragdolled. Glad you clarified that.


Really? Well thanks for that info, I had no idea of that. Trust a PR rugby aficionado to put me square.
Well nice chatting to you, must dash... (oh my aching sides)...


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 3:58 am 
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Bayern wrote:
Kiwias wrote:
Bayern wrote:
Hansen and his sidekick (now head honcho) never did replace Carter/Nonu/Smith like for like post '015. Instead, they thrust upon us pale imitations and chancers (any combo you care to choose).
So this November it makes perfect sense to do the same again, let's offer up those England tight fivers and backrowers (now bigger, stronger, faster and more aggressive) a midfield they can rag-doll (again).
Goodhue's ya man so he is and oh, let's offer them as an aperitif Mo'unga at 10.
Hilarious...


Oh dear me. Another berk who really does not understand why England beat the ABs in Japan.



Whatever makes you feel better kiddo, I'm good with that...


While the Mo/ALB/Goodhue trio wasn’t a patch on DC/Nonu/Smith it’s an unfair comparison as that’s the best combo to ever play the game. But even they would have struggled behind a forward pack getting so comprehensively outplayed

Time in the saddle will be the most important component as that combo (and any combo Foster chooses) quite simply lacks consistent international experience. They certainly have the talent to take on anyone, and it’s not like there is anyone else in the country with the physical presence to outwrestle a Tuilagi anyway - the best we have is shortarse Ngani


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:16 am 
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Bayern wrote:
Kiwias wrote:
Bayern wrote:
Kiwias wrote:
Bayern wrote:
Hansen and his sidekick (now head honcho) never did replace Carter/Nonu/Smith like for like post '015. Instead, they thrust upon us pale imitations and chancers (any combo you care to choose).
So this November it makes perfect sense to do the same again, let's offer up those England tight fivers and backrowers (now bigger, stronger, faster and more aggressive) a midfield they can rag-doll (again).
Goodhue's ya man so he is and oh, let's offer them as an aperitif Mo'unga at 10.
Hilarious...


Oh dear me. Another berk who really does not understand why England beat the ABs in Japan.



Whatever makes you feel better kiddo, I'm good with that...


Yep, it definitely was not because our forwards were beasted at the tackle and ruck and that the backs got very little good clean ball on the front foot. It was all because 10, 12, and 13 were ragdolled. Glad you clarified that.


Really? Well thanks for that info, I had no idea of that. Trust a PR rugby aficionado to put me square.
Well nice chatting to you, must dash... (oh my aching sides)...


A ragdolling in the centres wouldn’t really describe that game either. While like their forwards they were largely outplayed, they certainly didn’t take any backward steps. Goodhue made far more metres per carry than his opposite, broke more tackles, and made more linebreaks. He also had better tackling stats (though I’d be willing to guess Tuilagi’s hits had more impact).

It’s the same for ALB (though to be fair Farrell was playing a different role). More metres with ball in hand, and more defenders beaten than anyone else on the field. Far better tackling stats as well of course, though Farrell is more about shooting up and shutting down options than actually completing the tackle.

A bit of support inside them night have made all this matter


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:46 am 
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Kiwias wrote:
Bayern wrote:
Kiwias wrote:
Bayern wrote:
Hansen and his sidekick (now head honcho) never did replace Carter/Nonu/Smith like for like post '015. Instead, they thrust upon us pale imitations and chancers (any combo you care to choose).
So this November it makes perfect sense to do the same again, let's offer up those England tight fivers and backrowers (now bigger, stronger, faster and more aggressive) a midfield they can rag-doll (again).
Goodhue's ya man so he is and oh, let's offer them as an aperitif Mo'unga at 10.
Hilarious...


Oh dear me. Another berk who really does not understand why England beat the ABs in Japan.



Whatever makes you feel better kiddo, I'm good with that...


Yep, it definitely was not because our forwards were beasted at the tackle and ruck and that the backs got very little good clean ball on the front foot. It was all because 10, 12, and 13 were ragdolled. Glad you clarified that.



That and the advantage taken of Fozzie’s little attacking gambit .

Hey it worked against Ireland , who would think of adapting eh ?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:01 am 
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naki wrote:
Bayern wrote:
Kiwias wrote:

Yep, it definitely was not because our forwards were beasted at the tackle and ruck and that the backs got very little good clean ball on the front foot. It was all because 10, 12, and 13 were ragdolled. Glad you clarified that.


Really? Well thanks for that info, I had no idea of that. Trust a PR rugby aficionado to put me square.
Well nice chatting to you, must dash... (oh my aching sides)...


A ragdolling in the centres wouldn’t really describe that game either. While like their forwards they were largely outplayed, they certainly didn’t take any backward steps. Goodhue made far more metres per carry than his opposite, broke more tackles, and made more linebreaks. He also had better tackling stats (though I’d be willing to guess Tuilagi’s hits had more impact).

It’s the same for ALB (though to be fair Farrell was playing a different role). More metres with ball in hand, and more defenders beaten than anyone else on the field. Far better tackling stats as well of course, though Farrell is more about shooting up and shutting down options than actually completing the tackle.

A bit of support inside them night have made all this matter



That was the problem with our attack pattern. We went too quickly away from our loosies and got bad ball.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:03 am 
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Sonny Blount wrote:
naki wrote:
Bayern wrote:
Kiwias wrote:

Yep, it definitely was not because our forwards were beasted at the tackle and ruck and that the backs got very little good clean ball on the front foot. It was all because 10, 12, and 13 were ragdolled. Glad you clarified that.


Really? Well thanks for that info, I had no idea of that. Trust a PR rugby aficionado to put me square.
Well nice chatting to you, must dash... (oh my aching sides)...


A ragdolling in the centres wouldn’t really describe that game either. While like their forwards they were largely outplayed, they certainly didn’t take any backward steps. Goodhue made far more metres per carry than his opposite, broke more tackles, and made more linebreaks. He also had better tackling stats (though I’d be willing to guess Tuilagi’s hits had more impact).

It’s the same for ALB (though to be fair Farrell was playing a different role). More metres with ball in hand, and more defenders beaten than anyone else on the field. Far better tackling stats as well of course, though Farrell is more about shooting up and shutting down options than actually completing the tackle.

A bit of support inside them night have made all this matter



That was the problem with our attack pattern. We went too quickly away from our loosies and got bad ball.


They should have stopped breaking tackles, I guess. Maybe just walked


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:09 am 
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Ali's Choice wrote:
Sonny Blount wrote:
It's a pretty easy question.

12. ALB
13. Goodhue

daylight between that and the alternative options


I wonder whether swapping their numbers around makes them an even better combination?



I haven't watched Goohue at 12 yet this season but I suspect it would work.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:10 am 
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With my optimistic hat the good news is that this question exists for almost all positions - who are our locks, our back row, our midfield, our back three etc. a lot of questions to be answered.

I think the answer to 12 must include 13 - what is the best combo.


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