Chat Forum
It is currently Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:26 am

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:06 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 2961
This is for the refs and bored law experts: What is the law situation around scrummaging at flanker, specifically slipping your bind off your lock onto your prop to aid in your props ability to handle a difficult opponent. Basically becoming a 4th front rower.

Cantabs like AC will remember Reuben Thorne used to do it fairly regularly as did McCaw as well I think.

I have always done it when I can as well but got pinged for it on the weekend. Is there a specific law that addresses it? Our tighthead was struggling with a troublesome loosehead so I moved from 8 to flank to help our prop out. All of a sudden our scrum was stable but their 1 complained about it and the ref warned me which had me back in my box.

Is it actually illegal? I remain bound the whole time and all I'm really doing is keeping the loosehead honest. cheers


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:08 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 18987
Everyone not in the front row must bind onto a lock.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:15 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 28178
Murdoch wrote:

Is it actually illegal?


Not even close to being legal. It gets pinged now and again...but, unlike your scenario, I see it most of the time being used by the attacking scrum to drive home their advantage. The reason I think the refs miss it a lot is that the opposition team are invariably already backpedaling/starting to disintegrate, so it gets lost in he melee.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 11406
PO'M has been doing it in every match this year, he is a very bad man.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:23 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:33 am
Posts: 7649
Location: Stockholm
I dunno, sounds totally illegal to me. But I've seen it. I've also seem the 8 bimd between the flanker and lock on one side. Played for 20+ years and fůcked if I know the legal details.

I've also seen flanker push (and bind) basically at right angles to stop a scrum wheeling. I can't remember particulars but zI seem to recall that's illegal too.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:25 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2018 2:42 pm
Posts: 23
It's completely illegal, and referees are too soft on it. It's cheating in plain sight (no wonder NZ's favourite captain is being mentioned as someone that did it).


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:30 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 6138
Location: Darkest deepest northwest
lorcanoworms wrote:
PO'M has been doing it in every match this year, he is a very bad man.


Actually last Saturday he changed his bind just before the set and bound on the lock at every scrum. It seems to be some pre scrum set up, and not sure if he did the same thing (changing to a legal bind) v Leinster the week before,


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:30 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 28178
Lemoentjie wrote:
It's completely illegal, and referees are too soft on it. It's cheating in plain sight (no wonder NZ's favourite captain is being mentioned as someone that did it).


Lets be honest, pretty much every flanker does it these days. As a scrum begins to dinitergarte, 'accidentally on purpose' slipping your bind and ending up as a 4th prop happens pretty much every scrum.

Although, it is worth pointing out, as the OP alludes, that it is, like many inventions of cheating within rugby, of Kiwi origin.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:36 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 31797
Location: Chickenrunning...
Jeff the Bear wrote:
Lemoentjie wrote:
It's completely illegal, and referees are too soft on it. It's cheating in plain sight (no wonder NZ's favourite captain is being mentioned as someone that did it).


Lets be honest, pretty much every flanker does it these days. As a scrum begins to dinitergarte, 'accidentally on purpose' slipping your bind and ending up as a 4th prop happens pretty much every scrum.

Although, it is worth pointing out, as the OP alludes, that it is, like many inventions of cheating within rugby, of Kiwi origin.

Rob Louw used to do it for WP in the 80s. The GOAT did not invent it. :lol:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:02 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 11406
The Exeter coach Baxter? missed a trick in not telling his players to bring this to sirs attention.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:40 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 6475
Location: Madrid
I struggle to see how you can help your prop by sliding up beside him as opposed to having you shoulder in his glutes. I assume you mean you end up binding on the opposition prop as well?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:55 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 47485
Toro wrote:
I struggle to see how you can help your prop by sliding up beside him as opposed to having you shoulder in his glutes. I assume you mean you end up binding on the opposition prop as well?


Yes, if the scrum is turning in you end up shoving into the opposition prop.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:03 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 6475
Location: Madrid
JM2K6 wrote:
Toro wrote:
I struggle to see how you can help your prop by sliding up beside him as opposed to having you shoulder in his glutes. I assume you mean you end up binding on the opposition prop as well?


Yes, if the scrum is turning in you end up shoving into the opposition prop.


Right, that's the only time I've seen it, and usually when a team wants to ram home an advantage. But I'm struggling to see how doing this when your tight is getting hammered could make the scrum more stable as in the OP. Just not understanding the mechanics unless by doing so he's keeping their LH squarer or taking half the push.

I can also see how they get away with as a scrum is folding in but if it stays stable and a flanker it on the prop it'd be a bit too obvious shirley.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:08 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 47485
Toro wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
Toro wrote:
I struggle to see how you can help your prop by sliding up beside him as opposed to having you shoulder in his glutes. I assume you mean you end up binding on the opposition prop as well?


Yes, if the scrum is turning in you end up shoving into the opposition prop.


Right, that's the only time I've seen it, and usually when a team wants to ram home an advantage. But I'm struggling to see how doing this when your tight is getting hammered could make the scrum more stable as in the OP. Just not understanding the mechanics unless by doing so he's keeping their LH squarer or taking half the push.

I can also see how they get away with as a scrum is folding in but if it stays stable and a flanker it on the prop it'd be a bit too obvious shirley.


I agree with you, but I suppose the difference is a classic flanker position allows for more power, whereas binding on the prop probably allows for more stability by helping him stay up.

Too many flankers these days pop their heads up at the first opportunity and shirk their scrummaging duties :x


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:20 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 12737
Robshaw is one I noticed would do this. Also to hide his prop boring in.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:13 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:08 am
Posts: 6788
Location: Sydney
Sandstorm wrote:
Jeff the Bear wrote:
Lemoentjie wrote:
It's completely illegal, and referees are too soft on it. It's cheating in plain sight (no wonder NZ's favourite captain is being mentioned as someone that did it).


Lets be honest, pretty much every flanker does it these days. As a scrum begins to dinitergarte, 'accidentally on purpose' slipping your bind and ending up as a 4th prop happens pretty much every scrum.

Although, it is worth pointing out, as the OP alludes, that it is, like many inventions of cheating within rugby, of Kiwi origin.

Rob Louw used to do it for WP in the 80s. The GOAT did not invent it. :lol:

:lol:

No doubt there were others before him as well.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:51 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 33662
Location: Pigdogistan
Jeff the Bear wrote:
Lemoentjie wrote:
It's completely illegal, and referees are too soft on it. It's cheating in plain sight (no wonder NZ's favourite captain is being mentioned as someone that did it).


Lets be honest, pretty much every flanker does it these days. As a scrum begins to dinitergarte, 'accidentally on purpose' slipping your bind and ending up as a 4th prop happens pretty much every scrum.

Although, it is worth pointing out, as the OP alludes, that it is, like many inventions of cheating within rugby, of Kiwi origin.


A free shot at the opposition LHP in exposed his ribs while the ref is checking your feed on the far side of the scrum. Great fun. :thumbup:
Sometimes it even buys you a punch but you're distracting him.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:52 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 15074
Location: Leafy Surrey, UK
Quote:
LAW 19 Scrum
FORMING A SCRUM
7. The players in the scrum bind in the following way:
a. The props bind to the hooker.
b. The hooker binds with both arms. This can be either over or under the arms of the
props.
c. The locks bind with the props immediately in front of them and with each other.
d. All other players in the scrum bind on a lock’s body with at least one arm.

Sanction: Penalty.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 10:55 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 14533
Lenny wrote:
lorcanoworms wrote:
PO'M has been doing it in every match this year, he is a very bad man.


Actually last Saturday he changed his bind just before the set and bound on the lock at every scrum. It seems to be some pre scrum set up, and not sure if he did the same thing (changing to a legal bind) v Leinster the week before,


I didn't see this late readjustment and I was specifically looking for it as I knew certain losers here like Rfurlong would be whinging


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ] 

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 4071, BillW, Bing [Bot], Blake, Bobless, dam0, danny_fitz, earl the beaver, Flockwitt, Gazzamonster, Google Adsense [Bot], Gwenno, happyhooker, houtkabouter, La soule, mr bungle, nardol, NickC, penguin, Plato'sCave, Raggs, redderneck, Rugby2023, slick, tabascoboy, Ted., TrailApe, Trig, Zakar and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group