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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 5:30 pm 
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No mention of Alfie or 'player power', but 'tensions within the management team' which seem to point the finger squarely at Scott Johnson being a disruptive influence, which confirms how Eddie Butler painted it in this article back in 2006. After reading the Butler piece, you've got to be amazed Johnson ever got another gig (P.S. Butler's linked article is probably better than this 'official' one from Ruddock):


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Grand Slam coach Mike Ruddock reveals the REAL reasons why he quit Wales - a decade after leaving

Mike Ruddock has broken a decade of silence to outline in detail for the first time why he suddenly quit just 11 months after leading Wales to a first Grand Slam in 27 years.

The former Wales boss spilled the beans on what became commonly known as RuddockGate as Ireland prepare to come to the Millennium Stadium again for another huge Six Nations showdown.

Warren Gatland’s Wales prepare to entertain Ireland almost a decade to the day when Ruddock’s thrillers brought a nation to a standstill with their compelling 32-20 Cardiff triumph which clinched a first Championship clean sweep since the Gareth Edwards days of the 1970s.

Ruddock admits there were “tensions” in his Welsh management set-up and says he walked away because of what he dubs a “lack of support from the WRU.”

His explanation of events will fascinate the Welsh rugby public, with many fans still wondering to this day why things went so horribly sour.

Ruddock has previously kept his counsel on the whole affair, having walked out just two games into the 2006 Six Nations and less than a year after that never to-be-forgotten 2005 Millennium victory over the Irish.

He details concerns about having to inherit predecessor Steve Hansen’s entire Welsh backroom team.

The one big decision Ruddock insisted on making was bringing back defence coach Clive Griffiths, but he claims even that move was frowned upon by others within the Welsh set-up.

Explaining his decision to quit, Ruddock told the Sunday Times: “I didn’t have a signed contract during my time as national coach and, although a contract had been agreed verbally, the WRU wrote to me via my solicitor to advise me they were suspending negotiations so I could concentrate on the 2006 Six Nations.

“Given the contract discussions had been going on post-the Grand Slam since the summer of 2005, I took that as a lack of support from the WRU.


“This was a decisive factor in my decision to stand down. The ongoing contract saga, combined with tensions in the management team, meant the position became untenable.

“I hadn’t been permitted to pick my own management team at the outset. That’s why I originally didn’t apply for the position.

“Clive Griffiths had previously been released to the Dragons by Steve Hansen and Scott Johnson, so some weren’t best pleased when I brought Clive with me.

“Clive’s contribution justified my confidence in him, but it didn’t help cohesion within the management team.”

Ruddock continued: “We learned from it and when Gareth Jenkins was announced as coach he was filmed signing his contract on TV.

“It’s the sort of situation that doesn’t happen any more. No smart governing body just throws coaches and managers together. They let the coach pick his management team. I guess my legacy is ultimately that.

“I’m not about the blame game, it’s more about an awareness of trying to do the job you were asked to do but without a signed contract to give you the confidence to carry on with that work.

“I learned I had areas to work in and I’ve gone away and tried to work on them.”



The WRU being plum as usual. I genuinely wonder whether I'll see the day when the governing body of Wales are competent and well liked.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugb ... it-8797697


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 5:32 pm 
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But, but, but the WRU have saved us all from oblivion.

Scott Johnson should be deported.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 5:36 pm 
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Crash_12 wrote:
But, but, but the WRU have saved us all from oblivion.

Scott Johnson should be deported.


If truth be told, I'd never read that Butler article...or maybe I did and assumed it was just hearsay. However, it seems spot on. It looks like Johnson actively worked to undermine Ruddock, belittled Clive Griffiths, turned the players against him, and sought to engineer a coup (successfully).


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 5:51 pm 
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Jeff the Bear wrote:
Crash_12 wrote:
But, but, but the WRU have saved us all from oblivion.

Scott Johnson should be deported.


If truth be told, I'd never read that Butler article...or maybe I did and assumed it was just hearsay. However, it seems spot on. It looks like Johnson actively worked to undermine Ruddock, belittled Clive Griffiths, turned the players against him, and sought to engineer a coup (successfully).


You just know that the justification for resistance to Clive Griffiths was that he was part of the old guard and, as a result, partially to blame for the amateurishness of our early professional years. And, to be fair, given the humiliating lack of professionalism demonstrated shortly after by those turds from Llanelli during Gyppocuast, perhaps they had a point.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 5:57 pm 
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Johnson really is the rugby equivalent of an unflushable turd.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 5:59 pm 
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Ruddock always struck me as a decent guy.

Wonder how much Wales will regret this.

Image


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:05 pm 
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Was always in team Ruddock. Did a top job at Ebbw Vale and the Dragons as far as I am concerned.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:09 pm 
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AND-y wrote:
Was always in team Ruddock. Did a top job at Ebbw Vale and the Dragons as far as I am concerned.


He's an excellent coach and I've a lot of time for him (particularly given how he has continued to conduct himself during this unedifying saga) but I've got to be honest, I'm not convinced he is top international coach material. He would certainly have been better than the Fat Bluffer or that catastrophe that was the West Walian brains trust but he wouldn't have lasted long anyway I fancy.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:24 pm 
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Possibly not but he earned the right to have a crack and to be treated with some respect.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:28 pm 
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He seems to be a decent man, an accusation that could never be levelled at Johnson.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:31 pm 
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zzzz wrote:
Ruddock always struck me as a decent guy.

Wonder how much Wales will regret this.

Image



Mike Ruddock himself is half Irish (Irish Mother). His wife is Irish. So his kids are 3/4 Irish. And if you doubt me, look at the head on him!


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:34 pm 
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herb wrote:
zzzz wrote:
Ruddock always struck me as a decent guy.

Wonder how much Wales will regret this.

Image



Mike Ruddock himself is half Irish (Irish Mother). His wife is Irish. So his kids are 3/4 Irish. And if you doubt me, look at the head on him!


Yes, he does lack the highlights and orangeness to be 100% Welsh.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:35 pm 
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herb wrote:
zzzz wrote:
Ruddock always struck me as a decent guy.

Wonder how much Wales will regret this.

Image



Mike Ruddock himself is half Irish (Irish Mother). His wife is Irish. So his kids are 3/4 Irish. And if you doubt me, look at the head on him!

And Rhys was actually born in Dublin, so that makes it a clincher !


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:39 pm 
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camroc1 wrote:
herb wrote:
zzzz wrote:
Ruddock always struck me as a decent guy.

Wonder how much Wales will regret this.

Image



Mike Ruddock himself is half Irish (Irish Mother). His wife is Irish. So his kids are 3/4 Irish. And if you doubt me, look at the head on him!

And Rhys was actually born in Dublin, so that makes it a clincher !


I think it was the other brother who was born here. From what I can remember from their u20 days Rhys was born in Wales.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:42 pm 
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The welsh have form for treating people poorly in fairness and it always end the same, they come over to the good guys 8) . First St. Patrick, now Mike Ruddock, when will it end!


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:43 pm 
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Lenny wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
herb wrote:
zzzz wrote:
Ruddock always struck me as a decent guy.

Wonder how much Wales will regret this.

Image



Mike Ruddock himself is half Irish (Irish Mother). His wife is Irish. So his kids are 3/4 Irish. And if you doubt me, look at the head on him!

And Rhys was actually born in Dublin, so that makes it a clincher !


I think it was the other brother who was born here. From what I can remember from their u20 days Rhys was born in Wales.


Nope. The one with the Welsh name was born in Ireland, and Ciarán, the one with the Irish name was born in Wales.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:45 pm 
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Jeff the Bear wrote:
No mention of Alfie or 'player power'


You heard about the supposed Alfie thing as well then


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:48 pm 
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Gave up Ireland 20s for Lansdowne, it should indicate what he is paid for what is a supposedly amateur club.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 7:24 pm 
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herb wrote:
zzzz wrote:
Ruddock always struck me as a decent guy.

Wonder how much Wales will regret this.

Image



Mike Ruddock himself is half Irish (Irish Mother). His wife is Irish. So his kids are 3/4 Irish. And if you doubt me, look at the head on him!



Sure - but I don't think he could have spent that much time in Ireland. Mike Ruddock was only Leinster coach for 3 years and either side Rhys would have been in Wales and England (Millfield boy) until he went to UCD. He played Wales age group rugby and (I think) Swansea was his first senior club.

My point was more "I wonder if he would have elected for Wales if they had treated his Dad better".


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:19 pm 
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Jeff the Bear wrote:
Crash_12 wrote:
But, but, but the WRU have saved us all from oblivion.

Scott Johnson should be deported.


If truth be told, I'd never read that Butler article...or maybe I did and assumed it was just hearsay. However, it seems spot on. It looks like Johnson actively worked to undermine Ruddock, belittled Clive Griffiths, turned the players against him, and sought to engineer a coup (successfully).


And then, with the damage done, walked out himself after 2 losses and a home draw against Italy. It's hard to see what end was supposed to justify Johnson's particular means.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:21 pm 
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A great, if surprisingly heavy, Irish contribution to this thread.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:23 pm 
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henry wrote:
A great, if surprisingly heavy, Irish contribution to this thread.


Tbf, he's been an IRFU employee for a lot of the last 15-20 years .


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:24 pm 
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CM11 wrote:
henry wrote:
A great, if surprisingly heavy, Irish contribution to this thread.


Tbf, he's been an IRFU employee for a lot of the last 15-20 years .


Of course.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:35 pm 
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zzzz wrote:
herb wrote:
zzzz wrote:
Ruddock always struck me as a decent guy.

Wonder how much Wales will regret this.

Image



Mike Ruddock himself is half Irish (Irish Mother). His wife is Irish. So his kids are 3/4 Irish. And if you doubt me, look at the head on him!



Sure - but I don't think he could have spent that much time in Ireland. Mike Ruddock was only Leinster coach for 3 years and either side Rhys would have been in Wales and England (Millfield boy) until he went to UCD. He played Wales age group rugby and (I think) Swansea was his first senior club.

My point was more "I wonder if he would have elected for Wales if they had treated his Dad better".


He spent time in Ireland in the early 90s as well with Bective Rangers.

You're right though on Rhys. Ciaran was the calf cow used to entice the better one to Leinster.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 8:54 pm 
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Crash_12 wrote:
But, but, but the WRU have saved us all from oblivion.

Scott Johnson should be deported.


But where to, who would take him. ;)


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:10 pm 
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zzzz wrote:
herb wrote:
zzzz wrote:
Ruddock always struck me as a decent guy.

Wonder how much Wales will regret this.

Image



Mike Ruddock himself is half Irish (Irish Mother). His wife is Irish. So his kids are 3/4 Irish. And if you doubt me, look at the head on him!



Sure - but I don't think he could have spent that much time in Ireland. Mike Ruddock was only Leinster coach for 3 years and either side Rhys would have been in Wales and England (Millfield boy) until he went to UCD. He played Wales age group rugby and (I think) Swansea was his first senior club.

My point was more "I wonder if he would have elected for Wales if they had treated his Dad better".



Yes, I know what your point was. Wales bad, Ireland good.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:21 pm 
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FFs what a shambles the wru were before woger took over


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:28 pm 
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Lenny wrote:
He seems to be a decent man, an accusation that could never be levelled at Johnson.

Had a bit of a chat when he coached the Baabaas last year.
He is sound. Johnson however...


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:55 am 
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What was the reasoning behind forcing management staff on him rather than let him choose his own? Jobs for the boys?

... my home province might still be selecting staff that way. I was asked by an admin person to apply for an assistant position. Hesitated because I have a pretty rigid philosophy/approach, but applied to see what an interview would be like. Turns out I didn't even need one and they named me to the coaching team. Told them I wasn't interested and that they should have talked to me about it before announcing it to the 'world'. :?

Funny that they took notice of me when I was coaching at the 'right school' and not when I was over-achieving at a no-name school and small town club.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 2:12 am 
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Hmm. If you're going to point the finger at Scott Johnson for stirring up the players (and the man is clearly an unmitigated cnut) then it's hard to completely exonerate the players from involvement.

Clearly the whole thing was a clusterf*ck on multiple levels though.

Edit: Still, this was one of the all time great rugby interviews.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:26 am 
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pointy wrote:
FFs what a shambles the wru were before woger took over


Check the dates.

You're a shit multi, and you know it.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:33 am 
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K: yes, the players were adults and must take some responsibility and like amateur rugby clubs up and down the country it does seem like a bitchy little clique formed. I'm not sure which players though.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:36 am 
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Crash_12 wrote:
pointy wrote:
FFs what a shambles the wru were before woger took over


Check the dates.

You're a shit multi, and you know it.


Um, maybe check them yourself.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:51 am 
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2005 Grand Slam. The start of 4 titles from a possible 10. 3 Slams.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:52 am 
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Ted. wrote:
Crash_12 wrote:
But, but, but the WRU have saved us all from oblivion.

Scott Johnson should be deported.


But where to, who would take him. ;)


Bound to be some ISIS stronghold somewhere who could use another kowajah houseguest.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 12:03 pm 
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Crash_12 wrote:
2005 Grand Slam. The start of 4 titles from a possible 10. 3 Slams.


If that's a response to me, I am assuming the original comment was relating to the Ruddock debacle (and I'm also assuming it was tongue in cheek) and that you were asserting Lewis was in place for that particular bit of shambles.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 2:20 pm 
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CM11 wrote:
Crash_12 wrote:
pointy wrote:
FFs what a shambles the wru were before woger took over


Check the dates.

You're a shit multi, and you know it.


Um, maybe check them yourself.


Woger took over in 06. Ffs it was Steve Lewis in charge before then,he was the knob who never got A contract in place for ruddock to sign,and all that crap with Johnson and Thomas to happen.

I know woger did a hell of a booboo by giving the job to gypo, x( He sorted it out tho :nod:


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 2:27 pm 
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Uncle Fester wrote:
Johnson really is the rugby equivalent of an unflushable turd.


As we are finding out to our cost now.

You go to the effort of hiring a great coach, wait a year for him to start and he's still lumbered with assistants appointed by the fat bluffer and still appears to be unable to use the players that fell out with the plum.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 2:30 pm 
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AND-y wrote:
K: yes, the players were adults and must take some responsibility and like amateur rugby clubs up and down the country it does seem like a bitchy little clique formed. I'm not sure which players though.


As a long-time defender of the bitchy London clique I'd like to put forward a defence of the Alfie-led mutiny.

Now, pinning your colours to the considerable Scott Johnson mast does, in hindsight, look foolish but I think we need to bare in mind that many of those players had experienced a relative revolution in training and conditioning under the Kiwi coaches and were, according to those reports I can remember at the time, somewhat dismayed at what they percieved to be a return to the old methods, approach and personalities that dogged the early days of professionalism.

And Welsh players are far from alone in acting in such a manner. The shithouse French did it at the 2011 RWC, the English at 2007 tournament. Hell, at least Alfie and co didn't come out mid-competition and start bitching and moaning a la Dawson and Healy in 2001.

And, to be fair, the Welsh lads were suitably punished for their insurrection with the introduction, a short time later, of Clown Coach himself, Gareth Jenkins.

Karma.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 3:01 pm 
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Nieghorn wrote:
What was the reasoning behind forcing management staff on him rather than let him choose his own? Jobs for the boys?



They were happy with what Hansen and Johnson had done and were reluctant to start from scratch. If they could have kept Hansen too then they would have.

Its an obvious cautionary tale. A case study in how not to appoint a coaching team. Although despite this, Cardiff managed to do basically the same thing this season.


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