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 Post subject: Boks post RWC
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 6:16 pm 
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Firstly, can't fault any of the players, they left everything out there. Tackled like crazy and played with heart and passion, very proud...just was never going to be enough against a classy team like the AB's who were there for the taking today.

As "nice" of a guy Meyer seems to be this falls on him and his coaching staff/selection committee. And I'm talking for his term, not just today. We, for 4 years now have had nothing on attack. Nothing. That is on him and that cost us today.

I was worried, as were many rugby pundits, about our 13 channel especially on defense and we were stretched there a lot today as well. We have a gem in de Allende at 12 but we desperately need a world class 13 coming through and now 9 as well with FdP being done.

As for the subs.
Jannie for Malherbe after winning a scrum penalty and demolishing their scrum...why?
In general our subs didn't bring much of a lift though...

Areas that cost us:
Lack of attack
Lost lineouts - especially the one at the end by Whitelock.
Poor out of hand kicking again

Back to the drawing board but will Meyer still be the one with the chalk in his hand?


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 Post subject: Re: Boks post RWC
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 6:29 pm 
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It's difficult to plot the way forward so soon after the final whistle.

There are obvious shortcomings to our game, but against all expectations, we've just come within a penalty kick of knocking the ABs out of the RWC. Understandably, I'm wrestling with mixed emotions at the moment.


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 Post subject: Re: Boks post RWC
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 6:36 pm 
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Look at like this.

The Boks are clearly not at their peak yet. There are still young players at their first or second year of international rugby in the Bok setup. Guys like de Jager, Kriel, de Allende and Pollard will be beasts in 2019.

The ABs have clearly peaked. We will always be strong but there's simply no way we can replace McCaw, Carter, Nonu, Conrad Smith, Woodcock and Mealamu just like that.

Despite this, there's only 2 points in it at the moment.

I expect the Boks will be stronger than the ABs over the next four years.


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 Post subject: Re: Boks post RWC
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 6:38 pm 
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Eight_Eye wrote:
It's difficult to plot the way forward so soon after the final whistle.

There are obvious shortcomings to our game, but against all expectations, we've just come within a penalty kick of knocking the ABs out of the RWC. Understandably, I'm wrestling with mixed emotions at the moment.


You also came within 5 minutes of going out in the quarters as well, for the exact same reasons a.s you lost today. As Saffer 13 says, lots of heart, lots of grunt...the cutting edge of a spork.


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 Post subject: Re: Boks post RWC
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 6:39 pm 
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viktor wrote:
Look at like this.

The Boks are clearly not at their peak yet. There are still young players at their first or second year of international rugby in the Bok setup. Guys like de Jager, Kriel, de Allende and Pollard will be beasts in 2019.

The ABs have clearly peaked. We will always be strong but there's simply no way we can replace McCaw, Carter, Nonu, Conrad Smith, Woodcock and Mealamu just like that.

Despite this, there's only 2 points in it at the moment.

I expect the Boks will be stronger than the ABs over the next four years.



I'm not so sure. Boks will be fine they have great young players coming through. We won't be as consistent , not possible. But south Africa are gonna miss their experienced players just as much as us.


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 Post subject: Re: Boks post RWC
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 6:43 pm 
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Jeff the Bear wrote:
Eight_Eye wrote:
It's difficult to plot the way forward so soon after the final whistle.

There are obvious shortcomings to our game, but against all expectations, we've just come within a penalty kick of knocking the ABs out of the RWC. Understandably, I'm wrestling with mixed emotions at the moment.


You also came within 5 minutes of going out in the quarters as well, for the exact same reasons a.s you lost today. As Saffer 13 says, lots of heart, lots of grunt...the cutting edge of a spork.


As ever, people will say: "Bok rugby - it has true grit".

The problem is that true grit is not enough.


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 Post subject: Re: Boks post RWC
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 6:48 pm 
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saffer13 wrote:
Firstly, can't fault any of the players, they left everything out there. Tackled like crazy and played with heart and passion, very proud...just was never going to be enough against a classy team like the AB's who were there for the taking today.

As "nice" of a guy Meyer seems to be this falls on him and his coaching staff/selection committee. And I'm talking for his term, not just today. We, for 4 years now have had nothing on attack. Nothing. That is on him and that cost us today.

I was worried, as were many rugby pundits, about our 13 channel especially on defense and we were stretched there a lot today as well. We have a gem in de Allende at 12 but we desperately need a world class 13 coming through and now 9 as well with FdP being done.

As for the subs.
Jannie for Malherbe after winning a scrum penalty and demolishing their scrum...why?
In general our subs didn't bring much of a lift though...

Areas that cost us:
Lack of attack
Lost lineouts - especially the one at the end by Whitelock.
Poor out of hand kicking again

Back to the drawing board but will Meyer still be the one with the chalk in his hand?


And our exists. F*ck those are infuriating. NZ clear their lines wham bam thank you ma'am


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 Post subject: Re: Boks post RWC
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 6:48 pm 
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Meyer's got to go, get a foreign coach in. If Warren Gatland was the Springbok coach they would beast everybody.


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 Post subject: Re: Boks post RWC
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 6:52 pm 
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saffer13 wrote:
Poor out of hand kicking again


Yup. That was fatal for you guys today imo. Most of your clearance kicks barely failed to leave the 22 and if they did they didn't find touch. With the gameplan you played and the limitations in attack the Boks had to play more of the game further away from their own goal line.


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 Post subject: Re: Boks post RWC
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 6:53 pm 
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Get a foreign coach.


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 Post subject: Re: Boks post RWC
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 6:55 pm 
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Pollard is the first genuine 1st/five South Africa have had since Henry Honnibal (Earl Rose aside..) And he's only just started. I think between him, Allende and Kriel there's a fairly formidable back line forming. Saffer forwards are always going to be there or there abouts.

South Africa seem to have a history of wasting talent though, or not investing in it to see the full potential, Earl Rose was probably a good example (where is he anyway?)

I personally think the coaching is the achilles heel for the Saffers, even before any mention of quota's. I'd argue there's stacks more potential in South Africa than any other country but the coaching, or folk with vision aren't getting through to grab the talent and coach it.


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 Post subject: Re: Boks post RWC
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 6:57 pm 
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I've warmed to HM in the past few weeks. There was no hiding place after the Japan loss and I think he did well to pick up the pieces.

But he's had his chance and won nothing thus far. Time to roll over and let some other poor guy have a shot.

Lots of young players coming through, but that was more by accident by design. But 2016 is already looking like a better year for the Boks.


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 Post subject: Re: Boks post RWC
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 7:00 pm 
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How many of the Springbok players are likely to retire after RWC?


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 Post subject: Re: Boks post RWC
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 7:01 pm 
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Akkerman.


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 Post subject: Re: Boks post RWC
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 7:06 pm 
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sonic_attack wrote:
Pollard is the first genuine 1st/five South Africa have had since Henry Honnibal (Earl Rose aside..) And he's only just started. I think between him, Allende and Kriel there's a fairly formidable back line forming. Saffer forwards are always going to be there or there abouts.

South Africa seem to have a history of wasting talent though, or not investing in it to see the full potential, Earl Rose was probably a good example (where is he anyway?)

I personally think the coaching is the achilles heel for the Saffers, even before any mention of quota's. I'd argue there's stacks more potential in South Africa than any other country but the coaching, or folk with vision aren't getting through to grab the talent and coach it.


Agree that we are being held back by poor coaching. I also feel that the win-at-all-costs mentality is drilled into our players from a young age, which stifles self-expression on the field and encourages a low-risk approach.

Earl Rose, last I heard, was playing club rugby in Cape Town. He's not even considered good enough for a provincial contract.


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 Post subject: Re: Boks post RWC
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 7:07 pm 
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sonic_attack wrote:
Pollard is the first genuine 1st/five South Africa have had since Henry Honnibal (Earl Rose aside..) And he's only just started. I think between him, Allende and Kriel there's a fairly formidable back line forming. Saffer forwards are always going to be there or there abouts.

South Africa seem to have a history of wasting talent though, or not investing in it to see the full potential, Earl Rose was probably a good example (where is he anyway?)

I personally think the coaching is the achilles heel for the Saffers, even before any mention of quota's. I'd argue there's stacks more potential in South Africa than any other country but the coaching, or folk with vision aren't getting through to grab the talent and coach it.


I kinda feel we needed an X-factor wing (or a sharper, younger ones at least) like Mvovo or Senatla. As good as our two wings are, they're not that dangerous anymore


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 Post subject: Re: Boks post RWC
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 7:07 pm 
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Tehui wrote:
How many of the Springbok players are likely to retire after RWC?


Definitely Burger, Matfield FdP.

Possibly Jannie, Bismarck, Alberts? Maybe not retire but might not be first choice anymore.


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 Post subject: Re: Boks post RWC
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 7:12 pm 
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We are fine. No shame in what happened today. Within a penalty kick.....not too bad.
Trying to imagine that we have the class of some of the AB s players is just insane and opportunistic in that it allows idiots the opportunity to single out players for criticism. I see a lot of class in the AB s youngsters. It's not going to be easy going forward when we compare our youngsters. But the fight is going to be a lot easier to win without Carter and Mcaw.
HM is fine. Maybe look at including Ackermann. What more is there for Ackermann beyond a Soup title to round off his career.


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 Post subject: Re: Boks post RWC
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 7:14 pm 
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As ever, the problem with SA rugby is the abundance of talent. There are too many alternatives to allow players to grow into genuinely brilliant international level players if they don't show it immediately. If player A is given a chance, there will be half a dozen alternatives who were almost good enough for the same opportunity and you just don't play enough rugby to give all of the options a decent shot at the jersey. Nice problem to have in some respects however.


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 Post subject: Re: Boks post RWC
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 7:15 pm 
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Meyer is not fine.


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 Post subject: Re: Boks post RWC
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 7:17 pm 
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Too early.

Core of the team are young guns. 2019 has to be SA or Argie.


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 Post subject: Re: Boks post RWC
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 7:18 pm 
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There's nothing wrong with the Springbok players, it's their tactics that is short changing them in results. I still think the Springboks are a tougher side when they seek to attack out wide now and again. The Springboks can still stick to their traditional strengths. However, if they are only going to attack wide once or twice a game, they become a more predictable and easier side to defend against.


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 Post subject: Re: Boks post RWC
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 7:20 pm 
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Cartman wrote:
saffer13 wrote:
Firstly, can't fault any of the players, they left everything out there. Tackled like crazy and played with heart and passion, very proud...just was never going to be enough against a classy team like the AB's who were there for the taking today.

As "nice" of a guy Meyer seems to be this falls on him and his coaching staff/selection committee. And I'm talking for his term, not just today. We, for 4 years now have had nothing on attack. Nothing. That is on him and that cost us today.

I was worried, as were many rugby pundits, about our 13 channel especially on defense and we were stretched there a lot today as well. We have a gem in de Allende at 12 but we desperately need a world class 13 coming through and now 9 as well with FdP being done.

As for the subs.
Jannie for Malherbe after winning a scrum penalty and demolishing their scrum...why?
In general our subs didn't bring much of a lift though...

Areas that cost us:
Lack of attack
Lost lineouts - especially the one at the end by Whitelock.
Poor out of hand kicking again

Back to the drawing board but will Meyer still be the one with the chalk in his hand?


And our exists. F*ck those are infuriating. NZ clear their lines wham bam thank you ma'am


Yipp, they were terrible. Pollard kicked maybe 20m down field at most....mostly down the middle of the bloody field.


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 Post subject: Re: Boks post RWC
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 7:20 pm 
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Sards wrote:
We are fine. No shame in what happened today. Within a penalty kick.....not too bad.
Trying to imagine that we have the class of some of the AB s players is just insane and opportunistic in that it allows idiots the opportunity to single out players for criticism. I see a lot of class in the AB s youngsters. It's not going to be easy going forward when we compare our youngsters. But the fight is going to be a lot easier to win without Carter and Mcaw.
HM is fine. Maybe look at including Ackermann. What more is there for Ackermann beyond a Soup title to round off his career.


Sards, the Boks put in everything they had. No player can be singled out for letting the team down. I agree

But we were still comfortably kept in our own half and we never looked like scoring a try.

Sorry, be we need a think tank to see how to bring the Boks into the 21st century.

and I don't think HM with his crashball, playing off 9 game is the man to ake us forward


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 Post subject: Re: Boks post RWC
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 7:21 pm 
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Stop picking players from overseas for starters. Your Soup teams will be better for doing so as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Boks post RWC
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 7:21 pm 
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sonic_attack wrote:
Pollard is the first genuine 1st/five South Africa have had since Henry Honnibal (Earl Rose aside..) And he's only just started. I think between him, Allende and Kriel there's a fairly formidable back line forming. Saffer forwards are always going to be there or there abouts.

South Africa seem to have a history of wasting talent though, or not investing in it to see the full potential, Earl Rose was probably a good example (where is he anyway?)

I personally think the coaching is the achilles heel for the Saffers, even before any mention of quota's. I'd argue there's stacks more potential in South Africa than any other country but the coaching, or folk with vision aren't getting through to grab the talent and coach it.


Agreed about the coaching needs, just please don't mention Earl Rose again. Thanks in advance.


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 Post subject: Re: Boks post RWC
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 7:23 pm 
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Cartman wrote:
sonic_attack wrote:
Pollard is the first genuine 1st/five South Africa have had since Henry Honnibal (Earl Rose aside..) And he's only just started. I think between him, Allende and Kriel there's a fairly formidable back line forming. Saffer forwards are always going to be there or there abouts.

South Africa seem to have a history of wasting talent though, or not investing in it to see the full potential, Earl Rose was probably a good example (where is he anyway?)

I personally think the coaching is the achilles heel for the Saffers, even before any mention of quota's. I'd argue there's stacks more potential in South Africa than any other country but the coaching, or folk with vision aren't getting through to grab the talent and coach it.


I kinda feel we needed an X-factor wing (or a sharper, younger ones at least) like Mvovo or Senatla. As good as our two wings are, they're not that dangerous anymore


Habana was brilliant today (YC aside) boet. JPP was nowhere to be seen though.


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 Post subject: Re: Boks post RWC
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 7:26 pm 
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Tehui wrote:
There's nothing wrong with the Springbok players, it's their tactics that is short changing them in results. I still think the Springboks are a tougher side when they seek to attack out wide now and again. The Springboks can still stick to their traditional strengths. However, if they are only going to attack wide once or twice a game, they become a more predictable and easier side to defend against.


Agreed.

It's Meyer.


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 Post subject: Re: Boks post RWC
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 7:29 pm 
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I hate to say it, but it would have been interesting to see if the outcome might have been diffident if Morne Steyn had played instead of Pollard.

Pollard's goal kicking was good, but his tactical kicking was poor and his clearance kicking never got us out of our own half. Today's tactics actually suited Steyn's strengths more.

That being said, I'm looking forward to some retirements and some new blood.

I also hope Johan Ackerman, Eddie Jones and Nollis Marais have killer Super Rugby seasons. We need some alternatives to Meyer and Ricardo Laubscher. We really need a new generation of coaches in the top tiers of SA rugby. Meyer is not going to take the Boks forward.


Last edited by Blake on Sat Oct 24, 2015 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Boks post RWC
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 7:30 pm 
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Blake wrote:
I hate to say it, but it would have been interesting to see if the outcome might have been diffident if Morne Steyn had played instead of Pollard.

Pollard's goal kicking was good, but his tactical kicking was poor and his clearance kicking never got us out of our own half. Today's tactics actually suited his game more.

That being said, I'm looking forward to some retirements and some new blood.

I also hope Johan Ackerman, Eddie Jones and Nollis Marais have killer Super Rugby seasons. We need some alternatives to Meyer and Ricardo Laubscher. We really need a new generation of coaches in the top tiers of SA rugby. Meyer is not going to take the Boks forward.


Given the Meyer game plan only is why I might tend to agree with you. :lol:

Laubscher must be one of the worst, least creative backline coaches in the world. Worse than Fleck.


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 Post subject: Re: Boks post RWC
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 7:33 pm 
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Eight_Eye wrote:
sonic_attack wrote:
Pollard is the first genuine 1st/five South Africa have had since Henry Honnibal (Earl Rose aside..) And he's only just started. I think between him, Allende and Kriel there's a fairly formidable back line forming. Saffer forwards are always going to be there or there abouts.

South Africa seem to have a history of wasting talent though, or not investing in it to see the full potential, Earl Rose was probably a good example (where is he anyway?)

I personally think the coaching is the achilles heel for the Saffers, even before any mention of quota's. I'd argue there's stacks more potential in South Africa than any other country but the coaching, or folk with vision aren't getting through to grab the talent and coach it.


Agree that we are being held back by poor coaching. I also feel that the win-at-all-costs mentality is drilled into our players from a young age, which stifles self-expression on the field and encourages a low-risk approach.

Earl Rose, last I heard, was playing club rugby in Cape Town. He's not even considered good enough for a provincial contract.


Yes, you could almost reach and call the Saffer game style as stale. Not completely but they don't deviate much from the 'big guys smacking it up' style.
Which is obviously pretty effective for them, or has been. The Japan loss should have highlighted what a bit of adventure as well as structure can bring.

I see the Lions won the Currie Cup too, probably while everyone elses players were off at the World Cup.. Is Carlos still coaching them? Carlos never stuck me as the type to be a very successful coach, skills coach maybe, but not a successful head coach. I don't imagine they're playing helter skelter style like Carlos would when he played, I reckon the team would have a few moves though.

One thing that sticks out with the Springboks is they just don't try much. You just don't see a goofy lineout move like the All Blacks have done in the past. Even if it doesn't work they still don't try it, or any particularly skillful backline moves or arrangements. Again, even if it doesn't work it's just not seen.

The contrasts in NZ coaching are huge, from one extreme to the other. From the multi-layered structure of Robbie Deans who had a reaction to every possible action on field and had the Crusaders humming in perfect time, to Graham Henry who was pretty loose in comparison and played a pretty frantic action game, more the "play what's in front of you" type. That's a huge advantage to NZ having enormous contrast in coaching like that.

That's a shame about Earl Rose, very Carlos-esque which is a huge rarity. I thought at the time he was well outside what South Africa were capable of playing. He was just on a completely different level to everyone around him.


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 Post subject: Re: Boks post RWC
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 7:33 pm 
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Sards wrote:
We are fine. No shame in what happened today. Within a penalty kick.....not too bad.
Trying to imagine that we have the class of some of the AB s players is just insane and opportunistic in that it allows idiots the opportunity to single out players for criticism. I see a lot of class in the AB s youngsters. It's not going to be easy going forward when we compare our youngsters. But the fight is going to be a lot easier to win without Carter and Mcaw.
HM is fine. Maybe look at including Ackermann. What more is there for Ackermann beyond a Soup title to round off his career.


Sard, you might be a big Bok supporter this year but with all due respect, you know very little about rugby boet. Move along.

houtkabouter wrote:
Meyer is not fine.


This.


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 Post subject: Re: Boks post RWC
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 7:38 pm 
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Tehui wrote:
There's nothing wrong with the Springbok players, it's their tactics that is short changing them in results. I still think the Springboks are a tougher side when they seek to attack out wide now and again. The Springboks can still stick to their traditional strengths. However, if they are only going to attack wide once or twice a game, they become a more predictable and easier side to defend against.



I said it before (and will say it again). The current Boks side has a massive generation gap and hopefully all the geriatrics will now stick to playing for their pensions.

We have exciting young players coming through in the unions/franchises but we need a coach to gel their talents, not someone who wants to clone them into his idea of an ideal player. Yes use the traditional strengths but also use the new skillsets that the younger players are bringing into the game.

Tonight I watched the CC final in a WP pub and the people were amazed at the skills of the players and the speed at which the Lions players were playing, especially in the first half. and the WP players brought in similar skills in the second half.

And this can happen in all our main unions with the new coaches coming in. But we need a national coach that can use these skills

I don't think HM is the man to do it. He is so caught up in what worked for him at the Bulls ages ago than he cannot see the wood for the trees


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 Post subject: Re: Boks post RWC
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 7:46 pm 
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saffer13 wrote:
Laubscher must be one of the worst, least creative backline coaches in the world. Worse than Fleck.


Fleck's team just won the u21 final running in 6 tries and when he was at the helm of the UCT team in the varsity cup they played some amazing running rugby.

I think he was very constrained under Alistair Coetzee who is a very conservative coach. Jake White's Boks also struggled to get the backline going while AC was coach. I think he is the common denominator.


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 Post subject: Re: Boks post RWC
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 7:53 pm 
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sonic_attack wrote:

Yes, you could almost reach and call the Saffer game style as stale. Not completely but they don't deviate much from the 'big guys smacking it up' style.
Which is obviously pretty effective for them, or has been. The Japan loss should have highlighted what a bit of adventure as well as structure can bring.

I see the Lions won the Currie Cup too, probably while everyone elses players were off at the World Cup.. Is Carlos still coaching them? Carlos never stuck me as the type to be a very successful coach, skills coach maybe, but not a successful head coach. I don't imagine they're playing helter skelter style like Carlos would when he played, I reckon the team would have a few moves though.

One thing that sticks out with the Springboks is they just don't try much. You just don't see a goofy lineout move like the All Blacks have done in the past. Even if it doesn't work they still don't try it, or any particularly skillful backline moves or arrangements. Again, even if it doesn't work it's just not seen.

The contrasts in NZ coaching are huge, from one extreme to the other. From the multi-layered structure of Robbie Deans who had a reaction to every possible action on field and had the Crusaders humming in perfect time, to Graham Henry who was pretty loose in comparison and played a pretty frantic action game, more the "play what's in front of you" type. That's a huge advantage to NZ having enormous contrast in coaching like that.

That's a shame about Earl Rose, very Carlos-esque which is a huge rarity. I thought at the time he was well outside what South Africa were capable of playing. He was just on a completely different level to everyone around him.


Carlos left the Lions some time back. He was appointed coach at the Kings, but left earlier this season over a pay dispute. I believe he is returning to NZ (the Blues?)

The Lions play a very dynamic style of rugby and are certainly pointing the way forward for our game. They are uncharacteristically skillful for a Saffer side and have developed an accomplished offloading game. Incidentally, their pack was outweighed by the opposition's (WP) by 55kg but their superior skillset trumped any size disadvantage.

Their head coach is Johan Ackermann, former Bok lock. You would think him unlikely to lead a rugby revolution, since he comes across as an old-school Afrikaner and was a bosher in his playing days. There's clearly far more to him than meets the eye.


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 Post subject: Re: Boks post RWC
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 7:58 pm 
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Jensrsa wrote:
Sards wrote:
We are fine. No shame in what happened today. Within a penalty kick.....not too bad.
Trying to imagine that we have the class of some of the AB s players is just insane and opportunistic in that it allows idiots the opportunity to single out players for criticism. I see a lot of class in the AB s youngsters. It's not going to be easy going forward when we compare our youngsters. But the fight is going to be a lot easier to win without Carter and Mcaw.
HM is fine. Maybe look at including Ackermann. What more is there for Ackermann beyond a Soup title to round off his career.


Sards, the Boks put in everything they had. No player can be singled out for letting the team down. I agree

But we were still comfortably kept in our own half and we never looked like scoring a try.

Sorry, be we need a think tank to see how to bring the Boks into the 21st century.

and I don't think HM with his crashball, playing off 9 game is the man to ake us forward



Do you honestly think we have the personnel to take the ABS on in a running game. I don't think so. Not here or at the RWC. Next year possibly. He played a game plan that got us within two of the ABs. I am impressed with that. Look. There is going to be a whole generation of new players and possibly new coaches next year. You might even find HM gets gatvol of it all and packs up. There really is no point in continuing after a RWC. It's hard work.

I just find that the idiots that just want to chop and change for the sake of chop and change have never been responsible for a team. Or managed staff.


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 Post subject: Re: Boks post RWC
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 8:02 pm 
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more black players has to be a target


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 Post subject: Re: Boks post RWC
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 8:04 pm 
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openclashXX wrote:
more black players has to be a target


And the coaching team. What top class coach would touch this job?


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 Post subject: Re: Boks post RWC
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 8:07 pm 
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Sards wrote:
Jensrsa wrote:
Sards wrote:
We are fine. No shame in what happened today. Within a penalty kick.....not too bad.
Trying to imagine that we have the class of some of the AB s players is just insane and opportunistic in that it allows idiots the opportunity to single out players for criticism. I see a lot of class in the AB s youngsters. It's not going to be easy going forward when we compare our youngsters. But the fight is going to be a lot easier to win without Carter and Mcaw.
HM is fine. Maybe look at including Ackermann. What more is there for Ackermann beyond a Soup title to round off his career.


Sards, the Boks put in everything they had. No player can be singled out for letting the team down. I agree

But we were still comfortably kept in our own half and we never looked like scoring a try.

Sorry, be we need a think tank to see how to bring the Boks into the 21st century.

and I don't think HM with his crashball, playing off 9 game is the man to ake us forward



Do you honestly think we have the personnel to take the ABS on in a running game. I don't think so. Not here or at the RWC. Next year possibly. He played a game plan that got us within two of the ABs. I am impressed with that. Look. There is going to be a whole generation of new players and possibly new coaches next year. You might even find HM gets gatvol of it all and packs up. There really is no point in continuing after a RWC. It's hard work.

I just find that the idiots that just want to chop and change for the sake of chop and change have never been responsible for a team. Or managed staff.


Not at the moment, partly because HM doesn't really know how to coach that and partly because of the generation gap in the squad. The problem I have have is that I don't think HM is the coach to take us forward with the next generation of players. I am excited about the talent we have coming through and the new SR coaches all wanting to play a 23 man game and what we don't need is a Bok coach who wants to drag the players back to the 80s

Which is why I questioned your "we are fine" statement


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 Post subject: Re: Boks post RWC
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2015 8:13 pm 
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Jensrsa wrote:
Sards wrote:
Jensrsa wrote:
Sards wrote:
We are fine. No shame in what happened today. Within a penalty kick.....not too bad.
Trying to imagine that we have the class of some of the AB s players is just insane and opportunistic in that it allows idiots the opportunity to single out players for criticism. I see a lot of class in the AB s youngsters. It's not going to be easy going forward when we compare our youngsters. But the fight is going to be a lot easier to win without Carter and Mcaw.
HM is fine. Maybe look at including Ackermann. What more is there for Ackermann beyond a Soup title to round off his career.


Sards, the Boks put in everything they had. No player can be singled out for letting the team down. I agree

But we were still comfortably kept in our own half and we never looked like scoring a try.

Sorry, be we need a think tank to see how to bring the Boks into the 21st century.

and I don't think HM with his crashball, playing off 9 game is the man to ake us forward



Do you honestly think we have the personnel to take the ABS on in a running game. I don't think so. Not here or at the RWC. Next year possibly. He played a game plan that got us within two of the ABs. I am impressed with that. Look. There is going to be a whole generation of new players and possibly new coaches next year. You might even find HM gets gatvol of it all and packs up. There really is no point in continuing after a RWC. It's hard work.

I just find that the idiots that just want to chop and change for the sake of chop and change have never been responsible for a team. Or managed staff.


Not at the moment, partly because HM doesn't really know how to coach that and partly because of the generation gap in the squad. The problem I have have is that I don't think HM is the coach to take us forward with the next generation of players. I am excited about the talent we have coming through and the new SR coaches all wanting to play a 23 man game and what we don't need is a Bok coach who wants to drag the players back to the 80s

Which is why I questioned your "we are fine" statement



I will support anything that results in the boks playing the kind of rugby that the Lions are playing. It's great rugby. But before we go chopping and changing let's first see how SR goes next year. Then let's get a proper plan in place. I am sick of overreaction leading to rebuilding without continuity. That's why us supporters must never be involved in selecting a Bok team.


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