Planet Rugby Forum

The 220 minus your age thing is a very rough ballpark figure. From all I've read it varies wildly in individuals of all fitness levels.

If you're not at risk of having a heart attack, apparently the best way to measure it is to run 5km, then sprint the last few hundred meters. Whatever it maxes out it, add 5 to that. I don't want to risk it in case I fall over of a heart attack.

In my experience, comparing the devices to measuring my heart-rate manually, both the watch and the chest band are extremely accurate. Although maybe they're a bit off when you get it going faster (obviously I can't manually take my heart rate when I'm going flat out).

I've measured my HR several times while doing 5km runs, but I always forget to check what it is the moment I cross the finish line. My cheapo watch doesn't record and log it very well. There is an app that logs it, but the UI is shit and it seems to stop after a couple of minutes. Plus, the app won't record in the background.

My heart rate is 146-156 when I'm giving it the beans and I am NOT in the slightest a very fit person. I only do 4-5 km a couple of times a week.

It crests 190 once a month when I open the wife's credit card statement, but never while running.

Sandstorm wrote:My heart rate is 146-156 when I'm giving it the beans and I am NOT in the slightest a very fit person. I only do 4-5 km a couple of times a week.

It crests 190 once a month when I open the wife's credit card statement, but never while running.

Thats not bad for a man in his late 80s

BTW I love the fact that cardio is taking over the iron movers thread recently

FWIW, I suspect that what your max heart rate is is fairly irrelevant. I think it's the resting heart rate, and how quickly that your HR returns to normal after hard exercise, that are the true measures of your cardiac conditioning.

I'm not sure about that, but it's the distinct impression I get from reading about it. Apparently even elite level marathon runners have wildly fluctuating max heart rates.

blindcider wrote:BTW I love the fact that cardio is taking over the iron movers thread recently

Saturday:
5km run <23 min

Sunday:
OHP: 55kg x5, 5 sets
Bench: 70kg x8 / Lat pulldown: 60kg x12, 3 sets
Bicep & tricep isolation (lots)

Monday:
Squats: 130kg x3, 5 sets
DL: 160kg x2, 3 sets
Hip thrusters: 100kg x12 / Crunches, 3 sets
OH squats / front squats: 2 sets

Tuesday:
Bench: 95kg x2, 3 sets
Bench 80kg x6 / Pull ups: +20kg x3, 3 sets
OHP: 60kg x3 / Seal row: 75kh x5, 3 sets
DB shoulder press / lat raises, 3 sets

blindcider wrote:BTW I love the fact that cardio is taking over the iron movers thread recently

Ergs rule man!

I need to rethink my eating. Two lunches in work and a decent dinner yet I need to smash into the chocolate rice cakes and peanut butter afterwards.
I don't know how some of you chaps do IF. I'm just hungry all the time.

10km single scull last night.

Nearly got run over by a house boat and a leisure cruiser

My heart rate never goes above 177, so 220-age isn't too far out in my case (age is 37).

Resting heart rate is low 40s so I'm definitely not a hummingbird type.

Nolanator wrote:I need to rethink my eating. Two lunches in work and a decent dinner yet I need to smash into the chocolate rice cakes and peanut butter afterwards.
I don't know how some of you chaps do IF. I'm just hungry all the time.

Geezus definitely lay off chocolate rice cakes. What are you eating? And what are your goals weight-wise?

I would definitely recommend totally laying off all sugar, all processed carbohydrate and even most processed carbohydrate. It sounds like you're having trouble with blood sugar and the resulting hunger cravings. For example, if I go really low carb even for a few days, I just don't feel hungry anymore. Well, I do, but it's a different type of "hunger". I get reminded to eat because my "stomach feels empty", not because I feel agitated or hypoglycemic or I have hunger pangs or anything. It's literally like sitting there and thinking, "hmmm, stomach feels pretty light ... when did I eat last? Oh shit, yesterday lunch time! I better get something.". And then I still forget fifteen minutes later.

If you're trying to build up muscle weight then it's probably your body telling you you need more food. But chocolate rice cakes are still definitely not it. Have a steak with salt and pepper slathered in butter. You won't feel hungry after that.

Womack wrote:My heart rate never goes above 177, so 220-age isn't too far out in my case (age is 37).

Resting heart rate is low 40s so I'm definitely not a hummingbird type.

If yours is really low-40s and you're not an elite athlete, you might think about seeing a doctor. It's probably normal, it's again one of those things that fluctuates wildly amongst individuals, but low-40s sounds on the more ridiculous level. Better to be safe than sorry.

Well ... I guess it matter how are you measuring "resting heart rate"? My watch measures it as "the lowest it's been all day", which is usually mid-to-high-40s, just after I wake up. However, if I don't think that's really what they mean when they say "measure your resting heart rate" (it's well established that normal heart rate slows dramatically in deep sleep, I've seen mine as low as 32). If I'm well hydrated and rested and just sit still for a few minutes in the middle of the day, it's usually more like mid 50s to mid 60s, which I think is the "real" resting heart rate. So I'd say my resting heart rate is "about 60".

For what it's worth, a resting heart rate that is too low is not a good thing, although it's often used as badge of pride for ultra-fitness heads.

https://www.sciencenews.org/blog/scicur ... t-so-funny

I had a Ph.D. student, Will Morris,” says Mark Boyett, a cardiac physiologist and lead author of the study. “He’s a cardiologist and he’s also a very keen cyclist. He was telling me that his heart rate when he is race-fit is 42 beats per minute!” A normal heart beats at around 70 beats per minute at rest. A professional athlete in top condition will cut that number in half.

Many amateur athletes wear their reduced heart rates as a competitive badge of honor, proof that they are really fit. Unfortunately, sinus bradycardia is not always an effect worth boasting about. Lifelong athletes with low heart rates need pacemakers later in life much more often than the general population

My resting heart rate has always been lowish, these days it typically knocks around 47 - 48, but I guess I am doing an awful lot of aerobic exercise at the moment. The lowest I have recorded it is 42 but that was after spending several weeks at altitude.

Nolanator wrote:I need to rethink my eating. Two lunches in work and a decent dinner yet I need to smash into the chocolate rice cakes and peanut butter afterwards.
I don't know how some of you chaps do IF. I'm just hungry all the time.

Just skip breakfast and drink coffee and water in the mornings.

Eat a quality meal at lunchtime.

Always whack in a good shake after training.

If you're still hungry in the evening the eat something "clean".

I've had a couple of ECGs after various worrying symptoms (ie chest pains and high blood pressure readings) a few years ago and they didn't show up any issues with my ticker - they reckoned the pains were most likely some form of indigestion (coincidentally they always occurred in the aftermath of a heavy night/weekend) and the blood pressure readings were just blood pressure test anxiety - a second reading always showed it back at a healthy level.

I'm not an elite athlete but I've always had a low resting rate and, having thought for years I was a fast-twitch type, when I started cycling semi-seriously in my 30s it became apparent that I respond very well to endurance training.

By resting heart rate I mean taking my pulse at any time of day when I'm just sitting down. People always question this and say it's innacurate etc, but I know how to count so...it isn't.

Bobs posted up some really interesting links a while back about how the heart adapts to training. I don't think 40-50 is particularly low for somebody who does regular sustained exercise, there is a reason its called cardio...

@Womack:

Well, if you've had EKG's done, then that's all good then. You just have a freakishly low resting heart rate! Much better than a freakishly high one, I very strongly suspect.

I've always had a low resting heart rate too, although nowhere near as low as yours (people seem surprised when I say mine is 60!). It appears that I also have one that will rise and fall very quickly when I start and stop exercise, and after really intense exercise (like red-lining for over an hour during BJJ) it can stay raised (100+) for hours afterwards, which makes me feel anxious, which just makes it go faster, which is an annoying bit of self-reinforcing negative feedback. I had EKG scans too a couple of months ago just to make sure. I'm sure during the first resting EKG scan it was going at close to 120+ just out of anxiety (I really half suspected they were going to find something bad). The second one I was much more relaxed (because the first one came back normal), and I did it on an exercise bike, again all came back normal. In fact, the doctor's exact words, roughly translated from Swedish were "strong values across the board", and my blood pressure and blood values were also all normal. My watch - which I don't believe but makes me feel good - says my fitness level is "20 years old". (BC must be about 4 then). So I just try not to worry about it so much anymore, but obviously I've read a lot about it.


@Armchair:

The cardiologist in that article I linked said a normal resting heart rate is about 70, and mostly the "normal adult range" is listed between 60-100, with anything under 60 being defined as a medical condition called "bradycardia" by definition (src). He also said an elite athlete could cut that number in half, but questions whether it's really something that anyone should be boasting about, as there as increased risk of cardiac trouble in elite endurance athletes with very low heart rates as they get older.

My resting HR is low as you would expect from an ultra endurance freak.

Looking at events for next year and getting more and more tempted by the idea of a deca-Ironman (thats 10x, either 1 a day for 10 days or continuous over 12)

Only issue is its £1650 which I can't really justify as a selfish expense. I have just started sounding out some companies about sponsoring portions of my entry for logos on training kit and links/plugs in my social media accounts (blogs/instagram etc.) I think its going to be harder work than the event would be . I am under no illusions on this but opportunities to compete in deca events are fairly rare.

An alternative option could be a DIY attempt.

Mog The Almighty wrote:

Nolanator wrote:I need to rethink my eating. Two lunches in work and a decent dinner yet I need to smash into the chocolate rice cakes and peanut butter afterwards.
I don't know how some of you chaps do IF. I'm just hungry all the time.

Geezus definitely lay off chocolate rice cakes. What are you eating? And what are your goals weight-wise?

I would definitely recommend totally laying off all sugar, all processed carbohydrate and even most processed carbohydrate. It sounds like you're having trouble with blood sugar and the resulting hunger cravings. For example, if I go really low carb even for a few days, I just don't feel hungry anymore. Well, I do, but it's a different type of "hunger". I get reminded to eat because my "stomach feels empty", not because I feel agitated or hypoglycemic or I have hunger pangs or anything. It's literally like sitting there and thinking, "hmmm, stomach feels pretty light ... when did I eat last? Oh shit, yesterday lunch time! I better get something.". And then I still forget fifteen minutes later.

If you're trying to build up muscle weight then it's probably your body telling you you need more food. But chocolate rice cakes are still definitely not it. Have a steak with salt and pepper slathered in butter. You won't feel hungry after that.

Who are you? And why have hacked Mogs account?

Mog The Almighty wrote:

Nolanator wrote:I need to rethink my eating. Two lunches in work and a decent dinner yet I need to smash into the chocolate rice cakes and peanut butter afterwards.
I don't know how some of you chaps do IF. I'm just hungry all the time.

Geezus definitely lay off chocolate rice cakes. What are you eating? And what are your goals weight-wise?

I would definitely recommend totally laying off all sugar, all processed carbohydrate and even most processed carbohydrate. It sounds like you're having trouble with blood sugar and the resulting hunger cravings. For example, if I go really low carb even for a few days, I just don't feel hungry anymore. Well, I do, but it's a different type of "hunger". I get reminded to eat because my "stomach feels empty", not because I feel agitated or hypoglycemic or I have hunger pangs or anything. It's literally like sitting there and thinking, "hmmm, stomach feels pretty light ... when did I eat last? Oh shit, yesterday lunch time! I better get something.". And then I still forget fifteen minutes later.

If you're trying to build up muscle weight then it's probably your body telling you you need more food. But chocolate rice cakes are still definitely not it. Have a steak with salt and pepper slathered in butter. You won't feel hungry after that.

But they're f**king delicious!

I'm not going too crazy on cutting out carbs or anything, just not eating junk. Quite happy to get carbs from oats, rice, sweet potato etc with my meals, while avoiding snacking. Sometimes I just want chocolate, though.
I'm doing a stupid amount of activity at the moment; lifting 5 times a week and "cardio" twice; parkrun on a Saturday and a circuits class on a Tuesday. With the amount of lifting I'm doing, I dn't fancy going low carb and attempting to be productive in work.

Tipping about 2.9-3k kcal each day, going up to about 3.2k on Tuesday when I train twice in the day. I'll also have a bigger portion of rice with lunch on that day. I'm still not really certain of what my maintenance intake is. I've leaned up a fair bit in the last few months between increasing training a huge amount and just being a bit pickier about what I eat.

I'm away for a long weekend at the end of this month, so I'm toying with the idea of going on a mini bulk afterwards just for the change. Increase how much I'm eating and focus a bit more on hypertrophy in the gym.

newportblue wrote:

Mog The Almighty wrote:

Nolanator wrote:I need to rethink my eating. Two lunches in work and a decent dinner yet I need to smash into the chocolate rice cakes and peanut butter afterwards.
I don't know how some of you chaps do IF. I'm just hungry all the time.

Geezus definitely lay off chocolate rice cakes. What are you eating? And what are your goals weight-wise?

I would definitely recommend totally laying off all sugar, all processed carbohydrate and even most processed carbohydrate. It sounds like you're having trouble with blood sugar and the resulting hunger cravings. For example, if I go really low carb even for a few days, I just don't feel hungry anymore. Well, I do, but it's a different type of "hunger". I get reminded to eat because my "stomach feels empty", not because I feel agitated or hypoglycemic or I have hunger pangs or anything. It's literally like sitting there and thinking, "hmmm, stomach feels pretty light ... when did I eat last? Oh shit, yesterday lunch time! I better get something.". And then I still forget fifteen minutes later.

If you're trying to build up muscle weight then it's probably your body telling you you need more food. But chocolate rice cakes are still definitely not it. Have a steak with salt and pepper slathered in butter. You won't feel hungry after that.

Who are you? And why have hacked Mogs account?

eh? Are you referring to that other debate? I said many times I think eating low carbs, and especially low processed carbs is good for many reasons. Just that there's no energy being magic-ed away by it. It's still healthier, I think.

Armchair_Superstar wrote:

Nolanator wrote:I need to rethink my eating. Two lunches in work and a decent dinner yet I need to smash into the chocolate rice cakes and peanut butter afterwards.
I don't know how some of you chaps do IF. I'm just hungry all the time.

Just skip breakfast and drink coffee and water in the mornings.

Eat a quality meal at lunchtime.

Always whack in a good shake after training.

If you're still hungry in the evening the eat something "clean".

What would your calorific intake be in a typical day?

I currently train in the mornings and I horse in a big bowl of porridge with peanut butter beforehand. I don't drink coffee, although I do take caffeine supplements. Might give it a go, but the idea of being really hungry scares me.

Nolanator wrote:Quite happy to get carbs from oats, rice, sweet potato etc with my meals

That's why you're getting hungry, I would guess. Rice? Geez. Cut that shit out quick smart. I wouldn't eat the others either. Maybe sweet potato very occasionally.

I remember ages ago dieting the "normal" (calorie counting) way and getting uncomfortably hungry and agitated by lunch time, especially if I was doing any heavy lifting. I asked why that happened and someone suggested it was because there was too much sugar in the apple I was eating for breakfast. I thought that sounded like baloney but tried it anyway, no more apple. In fact, just no more breakfast. And it turns out they were absolutely right. I still felt empty-stomached and enjoyed lunch, but I didn't have that uncomfortable super-hungry, low-blood-sugar agitated feeling or hunger pangs or anything like that.

No rice and lots of lifting? lol no

Do you even meathead, bro?

You may as well drink a Coca-Cola. You don't need that shit for lifting weights, honestly. Once your body adapts you can easily lift weights on a low-carb diet, let alone a diet just without processed carbohydrates like white rice.

If you really believe you need bucket loads of carbs to lift weights (you don't), eat some low-GI, unprocessed carbs an hour before your workout. I don't really know what that would be tbh, as any food that contains significant carbohydrate that I can think of is either processed or bred (e.g. fruit) to contain way more sugar than it should. Some kind of beans I guess?

I think at Nols activity level it would be beneficial to have a fair amount of carbs in his diet.

newportblue wrote:I think at Nols activity level it would be beneficial to have a fair amount of carbs in his diet.

I honestly don't think it's ever beneficial to eat processed carbohydrates, which is all I'm suggesting.

Cut out chocolate rice cakes and processed white rice, it's not needed for weight lifting, and it's probably what makes it hard for him to do IMF, that shouldn't be a contentious bit of advice.

Nolanator wrote:

Armchair_Superstar wrote:

Nolanator wrote:I need to rethink my eating. Two lunches in work and a decent dinner yet I need to smash into the chocolate rice cakes and peanut butter afterwards.
I don't know how some of you chaps do IF. I'm just hungry all the time.

Just skip breakfast and drink coffee and water in the mornings.

Eat a quality meal at lunchtime.

Always whack in a good shake after training.

If you're still hungry in the evening the eat something "clean".

What would your calorific intake be in a typical day?

I currently train in the mornings and I horse in a big bowl of porridge with peanut butter beforehand. I don't drink coffee, although I do take caffeine supplements. Might give it a go, but the idea of being really hungry scares me.

Obviously I try and moderate things as much as possible based on activity levels but I don't count calories at all. There is too much variation in my daily output and it is hard for me to measure output anyway. I actually found it a complete distraction and turned all my effort onto getting a better understanding of my blood sugar and recovery/freshness to train. I do make a big effort on the quality side of things.

I used to do the same thing with the porridge. I stopped about 4 years ago when I was trying to sort out my lifestyle, based on reading the Leangains site. I'm usually up from 6am and I can train at 10 and do a 90-minute strength session, 60 minute hard bike or 120 minute easy bike, and feel fine through it. Then I'll have a shake with a load of whey, fruit and nuts in it and a decent lunch.

I would be an evening snacker like yourself but I try and keep it to fruit, nuts and coconut yoghurt. I've cut a fair bit of dairy out and replaced a lot of meat protein with plant protein. This was based on what the wife was buying for the house, but it has been an improvement I should have made before.

Don't get me wrong you will still get the occasional session where you feel a bit drained or the occasional hangry disaster when you don't get fed quick enough. Since I am in a decent routine now I can usually tell the difference between being under-slept and under-fed. I'm also onto a stricter 3 weeks on, 1 week deload routine which has given me much better clarity. Week 3 of 3, you're going to be getting it tight.

I know its not for everyone, and it is easier for me not to calorie count with the amount of training load I have, but I have definitely found the 12-8 has been one of the best things I have tried for body composition.

Interesting reading peoples take on nutrition. I have to take on board carbs prior to a session, especially so on a Sunday morning when I spend 3 plus hours on the water. I have energy crashed before and its horrible .

blindcider wrote:My resting HR is low as you would expect from an ultra endurance freak.

Looking at events for next year and getting more and more tempted by the idea of a deca-Ironman (thats 10x, either 1 a day for 10 days or continuous over 12)

Only issue is its £1650 which I can't really justify as a selfish expense. I have just started sounding out some companies about sponsoring portions of my entry for logos on training kit and links/plugs in my social media accounts (blogs/instagram etc.) I think its going to be harder work than the event would be . I am under no illusions on this but opportunities to compete in deca events are fairly rare.

An alternative option could be a DIY attempt.

None of you want to donate me £1650 then?

blindcider wrote:

blindcider wrote:My resting HR is low as you would expect from an ultra endurance freak.

Looking at events for next year and getting more and more tempted by the idea of a deca-Ironman (thats 10x, either 1 a day for 10 days or continuous over 12)

Only issue is its £1650 which I can't really justify as a selfish expense. I have just started sounding out some companies about sponsoring portions of my entry for logos on training kit and links/plugs in my social media accounts (blogs/instagram etc.) I think its going to be harder work than the event would be . I am under no illusions on this but opportunities to compete in deca events are fairly rare.

An alternative option could be a DIY attempt.

None of you want to donate me £1650 then?

In fairness, I think most people are thinking that the 'only' issue here is not the money but you having your head examined for even contemplating a deca-ironman!

For lifting weights, my personal experience is that carbs don't really matter. When I actually did some running 5 or 6 years ago, carbs do matter if you go over a certain distance or time. I got the "knock" once while running after about 2 hours 10 minutes and a mile to my house and it was the most horrible thing that has ever happened to me while training. From feeling great and thinking I could do another couple of miles easily, I could barely step up into pavements and was never as glad to stop running in my life. Never again

danny_fitz wrote:

blindcider wrote:

blindcider wrote:My resting HR is low as you would expect from an ultra endurance freak.

Looking at events for next year and getting more and more tempted by the idea of a deca-Ironman (thats 10x, either 1 a day for 10 days or continuous over 12)

Only issue is its £1650 which I can't really justify as a selfish expense. I have just started sounding out some companies about sponsoring portions of my entry for logos on training kit and links/plugs in my social media accounts (blogs/instagram etc.) I think its going to be harder work than the event would be . I am under no illusions on this but opportunities to compete in deca events are fairly rare.

An alternative option could be a DIY attempt.

None of you want to donate me £1650 then?

In fairness, I think most people are thinking that the 'only' issue here is not the money but you having your head examined for even contemplating a deca-ironman!

How very dare you, I'm as sane as the next man.

Hello Mog...

danny_fitz wrote:

blindcider wrote:

blindcider wrote:My resting HR is low as you would expect from an ultra endurance freak.

Looking at events for next year and getting more and more tempted by the idea of a deca-Ironman (thats 10x, either 1 a day for 10 days or continuous over 12)

Only issue is its £1650 which I can't really justify as a selfish expense. I have just started sounding out some companies about sponsoring portions of my entry for logos on training kit and links/plugs in my social media accounts (blogs/instagram etc.) I think its going to be harder work than the event would be . I am under no illusions on this but opportunities to compete in deca events are fairly rare.

An alternative option could be a DIY attempt.

None of you want to donate me £1650 then?

In fairness, I think most people are thinking that the 'only' issue here is not the money but you having your head examined for even contemplating a deca-ironman!

He has lost it TBF, completely bonkers

In a typical training day I'll have porridge for breakfast, a shake after the gym (whey and ground oats), lunch at around midday (typically meat, rice, broccoli), an afternoon snack (recently this has become a "salad" of chicken, boiled eggs, leaves, probably some hot sauce) and then dinner (something similar to lunch).
I find the afternoon snack difficult. I had been having peanut butter and yogurt, nuts, homemade protein brownie type things, large quantities of milk, etc, but I kept finding myself wandering to the shop for more food. I recently upgraded it to a second lunch to see how it goes.


Edit, deca-ironman? You're properly tapped!

Armchair_Superstar wrote:

danny_fitz wrote:

blindcider wrote:

blindcider wrote:My resting HR is low as you would expect from an ultra endurance freak.

Looking at events for next year and getting more and more tempted by the idea of a deca-Ironman (thats 10x, either 1 a day for 10 days or continuous over 12)

Only issue is its £1650 which I can't really justify as a selfish expense. I have just started sounding out some companies about sponsoring portions of my entry for logos on training kit and links/plugs in my social media accounts (blogs/instagram etc.) I think its going to be harder work than the event would be . I am under no illusions on this but opportunities to compete in deca events are fairly rare.

An alternative option could be a DIY attempt.

None of you want to donate me £1650 then?

In fairness, I think most people are thinking that the 'only' issue here is not the money but you having your head examined for even contemplating a deca-ironman!

He has lost it TBF, completely bonkers

Just think of it, if you guys had a quick whip round you could get rid of me for at least 10 days. That would leave you to praise Nicolas Cage's acting (in)ability and call all sorts of athletes dopers with no danger of being banhammered.

Glorious.

Nolanator wrote:Glorious.

Thats Nolanator banned for 6 weeks

blindcider wrote:
Just think of it, if you guys had a quick whip round you could get rid of me for at least 10 days. That would leave you to praise Nicolas Cage's acting (in)ability and call all sorts of athletes dopers with no danger of being banhammered.

Go on, tap up the Bank of Globus, its pocket change for him, all you have to do in return is be on hand to listen to his whimsical anecdotes and his attempts at playing Stairway to Heaven.