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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:24 am 
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Achtung running people. How does one go about making decent improvements into your 5km time?
BC, you were talking about having to focus on that if you want to break the 20 minute mark.
What sort of approach helps bring the overall time down? For the last few months I've just been running 5km once a week and making gradual improvements. The last few runs have all been fairly similar though, so I think that I'll need to do more than simply become more familiar with the run.

My pacing is all over the place and I can't really track it during a run, my watch isn't good enough. I'll average 4:25-4:30/km, but it'll be up and down like crazy. Obviously hills and other people are a big influence.

Yesterday evening I went on a treadmill ( x( ) and did 5x1km at a 4min/km pace, with a slower minute in between. Figure I can get my legs/lungs used to bouts of the faster pace and the gradually decrease the recovery periods/increase the reps. Seem sensible?
I suppose I could just do more running, or go for a longer run during the week to build a better stamina base, but I don't really have the spare training capacity (or inclination) to do that.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:26 am 
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Mog The Almighty wrote:
I've been laid out with a cold for two weeks. F-cking thing just won't go away.

At what point can I start running again you reckon because if I wait for this to "completely disappear", I have a feeling I'll be waiting for a month. I thought it was "almost gone" this time last week but the f'n thing just keeps hanging on. Definitely getting better every day, but damn it's annoying. Don't really have any symptoms left but a bit of a cough and a clogged up nose. Was thinking of trying to run it out of me tomorrow morning... or perhaps even going to Brazilian JuJitsu tonight ... but that might be a bit too intense.


I tend not to get serious colds, maybe one a year and the worst passes pretty quickly. I just crack on with training as best I can. :thumbup:
Maybe go slower/do less, but I keep going with it.

Go for a run. You'll be hocking up stuff and blowing sot rockets plenty, but that's not a big deal. Just don't do it near people!


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:36 am 
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Nolanator wrote:
Achtung running people. How does one go about making decent improvements into your 5km time?
BC, you were talking about having to focus on that if you want to break the 20 minute mark.
What sort of approach helps bring the overall time down? For the last few months I've just been running 5km once a week and making gradual improvements. The last few runs have all been fairly similar though, so I think that I'll need to do more than simply become more familiar with the run.

My pacing is all over the place and I can't really track it during a run, my watch isn't good enough. I'll average 4:25-4:30/km, but it'll be up and down like crazy. Obviously hills and other people are a big influence.

Yesterday evening I went on a treadmill ( x( ) and did 5x1km at a 4min/km pace, with a slower minute in between. Figure I can get my legs/lungs used to bouts of the faster pace and the gradually decrease the recovery periods/increase the reps. Seem sensible?
I suppose I could just do more running, or go for a longer run during the week to build a better stamina base, but I don't really have the spare training capacity (or inclination) to do that.


You are on the right track with intervals - running at above race pace multiple times with rest inbetween you will see in every coaching manual. Many ways you can construct that - pyramids, fartlek, repeats but its all having the same effect.

A tempo run of 5-6km a couiple of times a week just below Lactate Threshold (Comfortably hard) would also help - could use parkrun as this

a Longer run of about 60-90 minutes would be helpful to build that cardio base but if you have a decent base fitness you can possibly limit that.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:42 am 
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:thumbup:
I'll stick with the interval stuff and see how it goes. I did a circuits class on Tuesday evenings over the summer, which I really enjoyed for building my "fitness" base through constant varied movements. I reckon I'll replace that with treadmill intervals. Reasonably short session and easy to manage with the preset pacing. I also found I don't mind cardio equipment when it's not just steady state. I don't get bored when I'm constantly checking times or changing pace/resistance etc.

60-90 minute runs can get absolutely fucked. :lol:
Maybe I'll throw in the odd 6-8km run if I'm away.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:53 am 
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Mog The Almighty wrote:
I've been laid out with a cold for two weeks. F-cking thing just won't go away.

At what point can I start running again you reckon because if I wait for this to "completely disappear", I have a feeling I'll be waiting for a month. I thought it was "almost gone" this time last week but the f'n thing just keeps hanging on. Definitely getting better every day, but damn it's annoying. Don't really have any symptoms left but a bit of a cough and a clogged up nose. Was thinking of trying to run it out of me tomorrow morning... or perhaps even going to Brazilian JuJitsu tonight ... but that might be a bit too intense.


Above the shoulders I tend to run, but if it's a chesty cough I tend to rest.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:56 am 
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Got rejected for the London marathon again yesterday.

Thats about the 6th time for me.

I will now get spammed by the 'charadee' sector for the privilege to raise £3000


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:08 am 
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danny_fitz wrote:
Got rejected for the London marathon again yesterday.

Thats about the 6th time for me.

I will now get spammed by the 'charadee' sector for the privilege to raise £3000

Do you have to run a qualifying time?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:19 am 
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ElementFreak wrote:
danny_fitz wrote:
Got rejected for the London marathon again yesterday.

Thats about the 6th time for me.

I will now get spammed by the 'charadee' sector for the privilege to raise £3000

Do you have to run a qualifying time?


No.

Most places are sold to the charity sector who in turn flog them to joe public with every increasing amounts to be raised. I simply can't be bothered to go down that route and the ball ache that fund raising incurs. I ended up running Paris three times because I failed to get into London. It seems that just running a marathon for personal challenge is not fashionable in the UK anymore. Everytime you mention that you have entered a race the first question is invariably 'who are you running for'.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:25 am 
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Mrs Y did the London marathon, and hurt her knee at around 20 miles. her 4hr time ended up being 5hr as she had to hobble the last bit.
Danny reckon you got off lightly there sunshine :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:29 am 
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blindcider wrote:
Nolanator wrote:
Achtung running people. How does one go about making decent improvements into your 5km time?
BC, you were talking about having to focus on that if you want to break the 20 minute mark.
What sort of approach helps bring the overall time down? For the last few months I've just been running 5km once a week and making gradual improvements. The last few runs have all been fairly similar though, so I think that I'll need to do more than simply become more familiar with the run.

My pacing is all over the place and I can't really track it during a run, my watch isn't good enough. I'll average 4:25-4:30/km, but it'll be up and down like crazy. Obviously hills and other people are a big influence.

Yesterday evening I went on a treadmill ( x( ) and did 5x1km at a 4min/km pace, with a slower minute in between. Figure I can get my legs/lungs used to bouts of the faster pace and the gradually decrease the recovery periods/increase the reps. Seem sensible?
I suppose I could just do more running, or go for a longer run during the week to build a better stamina base, but I don't really have the spare training capacity (or inclination) to do that.


You are on the right track with intervals - running at above race pace multiple times with rest inbetween you will see in every coaching manual. Many ways you can construct that - pyramids, fartlek, repeats but its all having the same effect.

A tempo run of 5-6km a couiple of times a week just below Lactate Threshold (Comfortably hard) would also help - could use parkrun as this

a Longer run of about 60-90 minutes would be helpful to build that cardio base but if you have a decent base fitness you can possibly limit that.

Good advice.

Some hill sessions are also good to add into the intervals - they also tend to have the benefit of improve running technique by encouraging knee lift and leg drive.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:32 am 
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danny_fitz wrote:
ElementFreak wrote:
danny_fitz wrote:
Got rejected for the London marathon again yesterday.

Thats about the 6th time for me.

I will now get spammed by the 'charadee' sector for the privilege to raise £3000

Do you have to run a qualifying time?


No.

Most places are sold to the charity sector who in turn flog them to joe public with every increasing amounts to be raised. I simply can't be bothered to go down that route and the ball ache that fund raising incurs. I ended up running Paris three times because I failed to get into London. It seems that just running a marathon for personal challenge is not fashionable in the UK anymore. Everytime you mention that you have entered a race the first question is invariably 'who are you running for'.


Its about the 10th ballot fail for me - I know someone who has got in 4 out of 5 times on the ballot. Should be a stand down period of 2-3years after you are succesful in that fashion IMO.

Stupidly I am not that enthused about running it anyway, I don't see it as a race for runners and I enter almost out of habit. I refuse to ask people to pay for me to do something that I want to do as that is ultimately a selfish act - on the few occasions I have raised money, it has been in addition to the minimum sponsorship (paid by me) or been alongside a paid. My brother did it last year and I refused to donate to him on those grounds. He couldn't seem to grasp that it was effectively a £2000 ticket for a race entry that would cost £35ish if he was successful in the ballot. The charities also have to pay an extortionate amount to VLM for each spot - upwards of £500 in certain charity bandings apparently.

I'll go and do Storm the Castle duathlon instead - great friendly race and you get a bottle of beer in your goody bag


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:41 am 
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Homer wrote:
blindcider wrote:
Nolanator wrote:
Achtung running people. How does one go about making decent improvements into your 5km time?
BC, you were talking about having to focus on that if you want to break the 20 minute mark.
What sort of approach helps bring the overall time down? For the last few months I've just been running 5km once a week and making gradual improvements. The last few runs have all been fairly similar though, so I think that I'll need to do more than simply become more familiar with the run.

My pacing is all over the place and I can't really track it during a run, my watch isn't good enough. I'll average 4:25-4:30/km, but it'll be up and down like crazy. Obviously hills and other people are a big influence.

Yesterday evening I went on a treadmill ( x( ) and did 5x1km at a 4min/km pace, with a slower minute in between. Figure I can get my legs/lungs used to bouts of the faster pace and the gradually decrease the recovery periods/increase the reps. Seem sensible?
I suppose I could just do more running, or go for a longer run during the week to build a better stamina base, but I don't really have the spare training capacity (or inclination) to do that.


You are on the right track with intervals - running at above race pace multiple times with rest inbetween you will see in every coaching manual. Many ways you can construct that - pyramids, fartlek, repeats but its all having the same effect.

A tempo run of 5-6km a couiple of times a week just below Lactate Threshold (Comfortably hard) would also help - could use parkrun as this

a Longer run of about 60-90 minutes would be helpful to build that cardio base but if you have a decent base fitness you can possibly limit that.

Good advice.

Some hill sessions are also good to add into the intervals - they also tend to have the benefit of improve running technique by encouraging knee lift and leg drive.


Good point, actually. When I'm outside running and hit even a slight incline, I find my form improving a bit as I have to concentrate through the tougher section.
I actively dislike running downhill when I'm tired. I flop all over the place.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:54 am 
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blindcider wrote:
danny_fitz wrote:
ElementFreak wrote:
danny_fitz wrote:
Got rejected for the London marathon again yesterday.

Thats about the 6th time for me.

I will now get spammed by the 'charadee' sector for the privilege to raise £3000

Do you have to run a qualifying time?


No.

Most places are sold to the charity sector who in turn flog them to joe public with every increasing amounts to be raised. I simply can't be bothered to go down that route and the ball ache that fund raising incurs. I ended up running Paris three times because I failed to get into London. It seems that just running a marathon for personal challenge is not fashionable in the UK anymore. Everytime you mention that you have entered a race the first question is invariably 'who are you running for'.


Its about the 10th ballot fail for me - I know someone who has got in 4 out of 5 times on the ballot. Should be a stand down period of 2-3years after you are succesful in that fashion IMO.

Stupidly I am not that enthused about running it anyway, I don't see it as a race for runners and I enter almost out of habit. I refuse to ask people to pay for me to do something that I want to do as that is ultimately a selfish act - on the few occasions I have raised money, it has been in addition to the minimum sponsorship (paid by me) or been alongside a paid. My brother did it last year and I refused to donate to him on those grounds. He couldn't seem to grasp that it was effectively a £2000 ticket for a race entry that would cost £35ish if he was successful in the ballot. The charities also have to pay an extortionate amount to VLM for each spot - upwards of £500 in certain charity bandings apparently.

I'll go and do Storm the Castle duathlon instead - great friendly race and you get a bottle of beer in your goody bag


Pretty much on the same page as you.

All in (entry, eurostar and hotel) the Paris marathon was about £450. You can book online and know straight away if you have a place or not, none of this waiting several months nonsense. Its a scenic flat course, 45,000+ field and well supported and often falls on the HEC rugby quarter finals weekend!


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:44 am 
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ElementFreak wrote:
Mog The Almighty wrote:
I've been laid out with a cold for two weeks. F-cking thing just won't go away.

At what point can I start running again you reckon because if I wait for this to "completely disappear", I have a feeling I'll be waiting for a month. I thought it was "almost gone" this time last week but the f'n thing just keeps hanging on. Definitely getting better every day, but damn it's annoying. Don't really have any symptoms left but a bit of a cough and a clogged up nose. Was thinking of trying to run it out of me tomorrow morning... or perhaps even going to Brazilian JuJitsu tonight ... but that might be a bit too intense.


Above the shoulders I tend to run, but if it's a chesty cough I tend to rest.


Never got a "chesty cough" this time. Just my throat felt like someone had taken a blow-torch to it and I was laid out in bed for two days with zero energy.

Now it's just a slight cough and a bit of congestion at the back of the throat. I think I'll do what Nols suggested and take an easy run tomorrow morning. Fvck JuJitsu tonight. Too much, too soon.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:47 am 
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The easiest way to improve a 5km time is to put down the spoon and lose some weight but if that isn't a option, you need to run more. Intervals like you have been doing but also don't be afraid of doing longer slower runs as well.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:07 pm 
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boringperson12 wrote:
The easiest way to improve a 5km time is to put down the spoon and lose some weight but if that isn't a option, you need to run more. Intervals like you have been doing but also don't be afraid of doing longer slower runs as well.


Or stand at the front of park run.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:39 pm 
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boringperson12 wrote:
The easiest way to improve a 5km time is to put down the spoon and lose some weight but if that isn't a option, you need to run more. Intervals like you have been doing but also don't be afraid of doing longer slower runs as well.


lol no

Improving my 5km time is always secondary to lifting. I do it to have some other athletic activities.

danny_fitz wrote:
Or stand at the front of park run.


Mine is usually in the top few in the UK in terms of participation each week. Record is >1100, minimum seems to be >800. Running at the front of that would be terrifying.
I'm going to try and get to one in Dublin this weekend. Its record is 180. Last weekend there were 80. It'll definitely be a different experience.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:53 pm 
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Nolanator wrote:
boringperson12 wrote:
The easiest way to improve a 5km time is to put down the spoon and lose some weight but if that isn't a option, you need to run more. Intervals like you have been doing but also don't be afraid of doing longer slower runs as well.


lol no

Improving my 5km time is always secondary to lifting. I do it to have some other athletic activities.

danny_fitz wrote:
Or stand at the front of park run.


Mine is usually in the top few in the UK in terms of participation each week. Record is >1100, minimum seems to be >800. Running at the front of that would be terrifying.
I'm going to try and get to one in Dublin this weekend. Its record is 180. Last weekend there were 80. It'll definitely be a different experience.


Bushy Park?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:33 pm 
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Southampton. Always jammers.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:43 pm 
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Nolanator wrote:
Southampton. Always jammers.


Bushy Park gets crazy numbers over the summer. Lots of competitive Dad types trying to bomb around with their three wheeled buggies or berated their 8 year old sons for having stitch.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:44 pm 
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danny_fitz wrote:
Nolanator wrote:
Southampton. Always jammers.


Bushy Park gets crazy numbers over the summer. Lots of competitive Dad types trying to bomb around with their three wheeled buggies or berated their 8 year old sons for having stitch.


Plenty of buggy and dog runners here too. Good few 12 year olds taking the piss as well, the featherlight bastards.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:33 pm 
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I have dusted off my running shoes and started back out on the trails again.

strava is a merciless mistress though as I can see how much slower I am now than in my last running stint. I was doing my loop at 7 minute pace now doing it at 8:30 :(


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:14 pm 
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Nolanator wrote:

Good point, actually. When I'm outside running and hit even a slight incline, I find my form improving a bit as I have to concentrate through the tougher section.
I actively dislike running downhill when I'm tired. I flop all over the place.


If you can do 1 long run a week at a slow pace make sure it's on a hilly section. That way you build your base fitness, but also work on your leg drive etc at the same time.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:14 pm 
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ukjim wrote:
I have dusted off my running shoes and started back out on the trails again.

strava is a merciless mistress though as I can see how much slower I am now than in my last running stint. I was doing my loop at 7 minute pace now doing it at 8:30 :(

It will come back soon enough.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:23 am 
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Nolanator wrote:
danny_fitz wrote:
Nolanator wrote:
Southampton. Always jammers.


Bushy Park gets crazy numbers over the summer. Lots of competitive Dad types trying to bomb around with their three wheeled buggies or berated their 8 year old sons for having stitch.


Plenty of buggy and dog runners here too. Good few 12 year olds taking the piss as well, the featherlight bastards.

I try and keep a bit in the tank as my son always likes a sprint finish. I reckon one more year before he can beat me regardless....


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:29 am 
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Short single scull outing last night, my fecking bow light fell off and sank to the bottom of the Thames so had to limp back to the club in the dark.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:17 pm 
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Uppers today.

Bench, Close Grip Pulldowns, Inverted KBell Press, Seated Cable Row, Rope pushdowns, Rope facepulls.

Decent enough wee session.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:50 pm 
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Last night: 4 x 8 min erg, R24, 5 min rest between sets.

Avg /500m: 1:57.6


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:05 pm 
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Did a very slow 5km this morning, followed by a slightly quicker 1.5km. Coming off a couple of weeks out with a shitty cold, so I was basically just "getting a bit of a sweat up" and taking it easy. Will go a bit harder next time.

Worryingly, the old shin pains are back. F-cked if I know what I did to make that happen. I strongly suspect that it is because I stopped doing yoga and stretching as much. Need to get back into that!


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:28 pm 
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Putting in some decent mileage in a single scull over the weekend.

Two outings on Saturday and a long one on Sunday, over 51km in total.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:35 pm 
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Why am I such a shit runner compared to everyone else? I've been doing this consistently for over a year now. x(

I guess I can console myself in the fact that I was pretty naturally damn good at lifting heavy objects ... when that what my thing.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:23 am 
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Mog The Almighty wrote:
Why am I such a shit runner compared to everyone else? I've been doing this consistently for over a year now. x(

I guess I can console myself in the fact that I was pretty naturally damn good at lifting heavy objects ... when that what my thing.

Compare yourself to yourself a year ago. Trying to compare to everyone else is an awful exercise.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:53 am 
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ElementFreak wrote:
Mog The Almighty wrote:
Why am I such a shit runner compared to everyone else? I've been doing this consistently for over a year now. x(

I guess I can console myself in the fact that I was pretty naturally damn good at lifting heavy objects ... when that what my thing.

Compare yourself to yourself a year ago. Trying to compare to everyone else is an awful exercise.


Yeah I guess. I dunno. It seems like even some of my old mates who take up running in their forties, who are big fat guys and (ex?) smokers jump on Strava and just start putting up better times than I can after I've been doing it for ages. But yeah, I don't care all that much to be honest. I'm more surprised. I always realized that my fitness was sub-par for rugby, but it may have been far worse than I thought. :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:03 am 
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ElementFreak wrote:
Mog The Almighty wrote:
Why am I such a shit runner compared to everyone else? I've been doing this consistently for over a year now. x(

I guess I can console myself in the fact that I was pretty naturally damn good at lifting heavy objects ... when that what my thing.

Compare yourself to yourself a year ago. Trying to compare to everyone else is an awful exercise.


This, the absolute best advice for anyone in training.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:33 am 
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Mog The Almighty wrote:
Why am I such a shit runner compared to everyone else? I've been doing this consistently for over a year now. x(

I guess I can console myself in the fact that I was pretty naturally damn good at lifting heavy objects ... when that what my thing.


Stop running through Gamla Stan! That route is going to seriously compromise your times!


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:37 am 
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danny_fitz wrote:
Mog The Almighty wrote:
Why am I such a shit runner compared to everyone else? I've been doing this consistently for over a year now. x(

I guess I can console myself in the fact that I was pretty naturally damn good at lifting heavy objects ... when that what my thing.


Stop running through Gamla Stan! That route is going to seriously compromise your times!

:lol: It's just my way to work. To be honest, the streets are rather empty at that time of the morning. The tourist shops haven't opened yet and nor have the bars, so...

My pace now is really slow because I'm doing that heart-rate zone training thing. I basically stop running and start walking as soon as it hits about 157. In theory, at forty, my max heart rate should be 180, but I've seen it over 190 before and it regularly nudges 180 if I just don't stop running. But even if I don't do heart rate zone training, them I'm doing 5km at something like 5:45 pace, which seems to be average even for my fat ex-smoker friends that just took up running. :? It is a pretty hilly run, but it's up and down in fairly even proportions (I think about a 50m gain over 5km).


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:46 am 
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Mog The Almighty wrote:
danny_fitz wrote:
Mog The Almighty wrote:
Why am I such a shit runner compared to everyone else? I've been doing this consistently for over a year now. x(

I guess I can console myself in the fact that I was pretty naturally damn good at lifting heavy objects ... when that what my thing.


Stop running through Gamla Stan! That route is going to seriously compromise your times!

:lol: It's just my way to work. To be honest, the streets are rather empty at that time of the morning. The tourist shops haven't opened yet and nor have the bars, so...

My pace now is really slow because I'm doing that heart-rate zone training thing. I basically stop running and start walking as soon as it hits about 157. In theory, at forty, my max heart rate should be 180, but I've seen it over 190 before and it regularly nudges 180 if I just don't stop running. But even if I don't do heart rate zone training, them I'm doing 5km at something like 5:45 pace, which seems to be average even for my fat ex-smoker friends that just took up running. :? It is a pretty hilly run, but it's up and down in fairly even proportions (I think about a 50m gain over 5km).


I never really bothered trying to target heart rate zones. I am probably averaging around 175 when on the erg or pushing it on the water. I'm just glad to be getting a work out!

I used to live in Solna, bit easier to go running there!


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:09 am 
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Was chatting to my dad last night and asked him about max heart rates. He's 60 next year so his max should theoretically be about 160, which is quite clearly bollocks. He regularly gets into the 180s and is fine. It helps that he's very fit, obviously, but shows that the guidelines are very crude at best.

He reckons that the only way to truly find your max HR is to run until you collapse from exhaustion, and measure it then. That approach clearly comes with some health risks, though.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:14 pm 
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Strange question that I should know the answer to. ( and it gets us away from all the cardio bunnies :lol: )

How do I put muscle on certain muscles?

Is it just a case of regularly exercise of those muscles and adding weight regularly? Obviously eating in a calorie supplies and sufficient protein to.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:30 pm 
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newportblue wrote:
Strange question that I should know the answer to. ( and it gets us away from all the cardio bunnies :lol: )

How do I put muscle on certain muscles?

Is it just a case of regularly exercise of those muscles and adding weight regularly? Obviously eating in a calorie supplies and sufficient protein to.


Frequency seems to be important, with 2-3 sessions being superior to 1 session a week, even when load and volume is kept the same.


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