Planet Rugby Forum

fonzeee wrote:

thor wrote:Thinking I might do a cycle of creatine, any recommendations for amounts or a particular type?

I found this video very helpful:

Nolanator wrote:On creatine, Eric Helms gives a fairly comprehensive overview here. If you want more detail.
https://youtu.be/r9eCtOFIf40

With regard to your specific question, a scoop of good ol' monohydrate seems to be the best bet (any brand AFAIK)...and it seems there's no need to cycle as it's not a drug. (This is all covered in the video)

hopefully will find time to get into a proper routine again.

I kicked off with an IF 16:8 programme on Monday, although I may modify it to 18:6 (eating only between 1400-2000); the main issue I have is my drinking which always finds a way into my schedule My aim is to get down to 90kgs (currently 94)

Anyway, have started a slope run set (30ms x10, followed by 1 to 10 press ups - 1 on first slope, 2 on the 2nd, etc), then a set of 10 dumbbell exercises, 10 reps each); then another set of slope runs (40ms x10, followed by leg raises and extensions 1 to 10 in same way as pressups). Topped of with a 50m wall up the slope, 10 squats to start and with 20ms to go, lunges - all with dumbbells. All done on an empty stomach at lunchtime in 33C and 75%+ humidity. I sleep well at night

Nice deadlift session tonight after all my travel disruption.

Deadlift Worked up to 480lbs for 3.

Deficit deadlift 3 sets of 5 @ 365lbs 2.75” deficit

Frame carry 385lbs 5 sets of 60 yards

Some Dumbbell rows and pull downs.

Pretty happy with that.

Ultramarathon on Saturday - Entered the Kids race at 50ish km rather than the Full 75 km race as I am not out to 'race' it as have an adventure race in a month that is more of an 'A' race.

On a side note - There is a very good chance I will be appearing on British Eurosport on Tuesday Evening in the UK Challenge highlights show as I was interviewed twice in front of the cameras (Team 54 - dark blue death row fatigues). I have a very good record of appearing on TV at these things - Outlaw 2015, LCW 2016 and IM staffs 2016 are just 3 I know about - only for a matter of seconds but the amount they were reshown on the Bike channel means my 15 mins of fame is probably used up already

50km run?
Lunatic. Fair play.


Heavy DLs and back this morning.

Meant to do sets of 5, 3, and 1, but can't count and did 4,3,1. Was suffering and lost count after 3.
180x4, 190x3, 200x1 That set at 190 was disgusting. Shit form and felt generally awful. Couldn't sort my posture out at all. Looking back, my shoulder blades were winging like mad and pointing at the sky. Needed to brace my lower lats way harder to help keep my lower back stiff.

Benched 103 for a single on Tuesday. Think that actually might be a PB. Felt OK. Slow and difficult, but a clean grind.

45km rowing race next month down on the Med. Have ramped up the erg and on the water training accordingly. Sitting on an erg for a few hours at a time is mentally tough, on the water not so bad. Doing 60km (over two days) coastal rowing in Dorset this weekend before 35km on the Solent the next weekend. Hopefully I will not get run over by a container ship.

I'll come down and cheerlead for you.

Nolanator wrote:I'll come down and cheerlead for you.

Thats the kind of support this thread has been crying out for

Nolanator wrote:50km run?
Lunatic. Fair play.


Heavy DLs and back this morning.

Meant to do sets of 5, 3, and 1, but can't count and did 4,3,1. Was suffering and lost count after 3.
180x4, 190x3, 200x1 That set at 190 was disgusting. Shit form and felt generally awful. Couldn't sort my posture out at all. Looking back, my shoulder blades were winging like mad and pointing at the sky. Needed to brace my lower lats way harder to help keep my lower back stiff.

Benched 103 for a single on Tuesday. Think that actually might be a PB. Felt OK. Slow and difficult, but a clean grind.

That sun in the face would piss me right off

Hit some modest rep PR’s this week. 325lbs squat for 6 and 365lbs deadlift for 4, hopefully on for some nice gains soon.

It wasn't there when I started, bit it had moved by the time of warmed up and got to my working sets.

That's a solid squat.

Nolanator wrote:I'll come down and cheerlead for you.

I'll be down the pub watching the game thinking about him.

rialtoblue wrote:

Nolanator wrote:Sounds like you've the main components covered and you're using free weights.

Horizontal push (bench press), vertical puss (shoulder press), horizontal pull (seated row), vertical pull (LPD).



I'd even change it a bit from what I initially said and treat one exercise as the primary exercise in that session, and the rest assistance. So:

Day 1:
"Heavy" bench, light incline. Heavy LPD, light seated row. Assistance.

Day 2:
Heavy shoulder press, light flat bench. Heavy seated row, light LPD. Assistance.

This gives a heavy push and a heavy pull each session, with lighter stuff for added rep volume, but still gives you variety across each session.
Heavy meaning around 6 reps, light meaning around 10. For assistance then you've got various isolation exercises. Arm work, lateral raises, flies.

Mixing the heavy and light across two sessions, but having a different focus for each will let you train with more intensity for both sessions, without over-doing it.



Ultimately, if you're exercising the main muscle groups through full range of motion and resistance, and eating/sleeping, you'll get some benefits. If you're fairly new to the game you'll more benefit/payback out of consistency and perseverance than any specific program over another.



Ika, gotcha. Missed your distinction.

That's brilliant, thanks Nols

Nols, thanks again.

Last couple of weeks have been far more productive with your tips, ans starting to feel real benefits, particularly in my back!

good to hear!

Man In Black wrote:Does crash669 ever hang out in here?

If so, I need to get some new boxing gloves. I've always been a Fairtex fan but going to treat myself so don't mind spending a bit more cash if you can recommend some good ones.

Will you be sparring or just bag work?

I go with Pro Box for sparring because they're the closest to competition style glove. They'll keep your hand in a proper fist and have a decent balance for sparring work. They're on the cheaper end but a pair have lasted me 2 years plus.

If you're looking to spend real money Cleto Reyes are the mutts nuts, but they're not cheap. My coach swears by RDX as an all round training brand and I think they've got a range of prices, so they might be worth a look.

50 days out from the marathon, legs are feeling good. Rugby season ends tomorrow so I can get back into doing some long, long runs on Sundays.

Enjoying chasing strength again at the moment. Things are moving well and feel like the weights are about at the right place.

Last night

Squat
185x5 rpe 9
3x5 150

Bench
5x5 115

Split squats
4x8 45 *trying to bring my quad strength more inline with my posterior chain. Feel like my squat suffers from my hips shooting back when I’m tired or when the weights heavy.

Machine incline press
4x12

Tricep push downs
4x12

Do you squat high or low bar, NPB?

I was always under the impression that hips shooting is an issue with the posterior chain, that having your glutes take more of the load keep the hips more open throughout the movement.
Mad numbers on the squats.

Good pressing session this morning. Bar movement felt good.

Bench: 90 x5, 5 sets
Pin bench: 80x5, 4 sets
DB shoulder press: 22.5 x8, 3 sets
Cable TPD
Cable kickbacks
Cable facepulls
Abs/skipping circuit

Did pin bench with it set just above my chest. Fully deloaded the bar on each rep. Never done it before. Really good for power out of the bottom, obviously, but found it helped me concentrate on my technique a lot.
Was messing and did cable kickbacks for a pump, making sure to keep my upper arm behind the line of my torso. Holy shit, the burn right in a the top was intense, felt like someone stabbing me. I've clearly never really worked that head in isolation before.

Nolanator wrote:Do you squat high or low bar, NPB?

I was always under the impression that hips shooting is an issue with the posterior chain, that having your glutes take more of the load keep the hips more open throughout the movement.
Mad numbers on the squats.

Good pressing session this morning. Bar movement felt good.

Bench: 90 x5, 5 sets
Pin bench: 80x5, 4 sets
DB shoulder press: 22.5 x8, 3 sets
Cable TPD
Cable kickbacks
Cable facepulls
Abs/skipping circuit

Did pin bench with it set just above my chest. Fully deloaded the bar on each rep. Never done it before. Really good for power out of the bottom, obviously, but found it helped me concentrate on my technique a lot.
Was messing and did cable kickbacks for a pump, making sure to keep my upper arm behind the line of my torso. Holy shit, the burn right in a the top was intense, felt like someone stabbing me. I've clearly never really worked that head in isolation before.

Fnar fnar

Yesterday was a pulling session, with hip thrusts, two-handed and single-handed work, and curling out at the end.

Way more material.

Went to the gym as well. Waaaaaayyyyyyyyy!!!!!!

Nolanator wrote:Do you squat high or low bar, NPB?

I was always under the impression that hips shooting is an issue with the posterior chain, that having your glutes take more of the load keep the hips more open throughout the movement.
Mad numbers on the squats.

Good pressing session this morning. Bar movement felt good.

Bench: 90 x5, 5 sets
Pin bench: 80x5, 4 sets
DB shoulder press: 22.5 x8, 3 sets
Cable TPD
Cable kickbacks
Cable facepulls
Abs/skipping circuit

Did pin bench with it set just above my chest. Fully deloaded the bar on each rep. Never done it before. Really good for power out of the bottom, obviously, but found it helped me concentrate on my technique a lot.
Was messing and did cable kickbacks for a pump, making sure to keep my upper arm behind the line of my torso. Holy shit, the burn right in a the top was intense, felt like someone stabbing me. I've clearly never really worked that head in isolation before.

Low bar generally.

Without being too boring and technical ( it’s just squatting). I feel like my posterior chain is much stronger than my quads. When I struggle my body defaults to its strongest position, which causes a “good morning” squat if that makes sense.

I’m open to ideas but just read weaker quads cause the issue. Might work on them for a while and then look at something else.

How did you shoulders feel after pin bench? I hear it can cause some irritation

newportblue wrote:

Nolanator wrote:Do you squat high or low bar, NPB?

I was always under the impression that hips shooting is an issue with the posterior chain, that having your glutes take more of the load keep the hips more open throughout the movement.
Mad numbers on the squats.

Low bar generally.

Without being too boring and technical ( it’s just squatting). I feel like my posterior chain is much stronger than my quads. When I struggle my body defaults to its strongest position, which causes a “good morning” squat if that makes sense.

I’m open to ideas but just read weaker quads cause the issue. Might work on them for a while and then look at something else.

How did you shoulders feel after pin bench? I hear it can cause some irritation

I know exactly what you mean. I call it the stripper squat.
I get you. You're used to the flatter torso posture, so you revert to that when you struggle. There's definitely way less quad activation that way.

For me it's different. I squat high bar but have issues with my left hip not driving as hard. So I kick my hips to the right and drive off my right side, which is way more powerful. It stems from the glutes, from what I can tell. When I do exercises which should isolate the glutes like SL hip thrusts or low step ups, I can feel my right glute working well, but on my left side the hammies and quads take over where they can. It's more a mind muscle connection thing than anything.
When I get it right on a heavy squat, the bar flies up without shifting sideways or my back flattening.

Pin bench was fine. I exaggerated the elbows beyond the bar a bit and squeezed everything in my back really hard. Meant my shoulders stayed open and I didn't shift to an uncomfortable position. Having that split second where I deloaded at the bottom of each rep gave me a chance to re-brace everything when I felt my form slip as the fatigue built up.

Re quad isolation; recently I've been doing narrow stance squats with my heels elevated as assistance on my squat day. Ridiculous quad work. First time I did it they were sore for 5 days.

It’s interesting how we develop these imbalances isn’t it? I would imagine my stronger posterior chain generally comes from doing lots of powerlifting movements and neglecting the quads. Get so hooked on numbers.

I did those narrow stance squats... killed me. I will go back to them at some point.

I've got a slight impingement at the front of my left hip. If I squeeze my glutes hard and focus on externally rotating my hip, I can feel a pinch deep down. Probably just one of the those not-quite-injuries that everyone has, but you only notice when you put it through extreme stress/activity. I'd say it'a labrum or capsule issue.
I think that probably lead to a slight movement dysfunction over the years, which has also affected how the muscles around it work. I had a groin issue there a few years ago which spread into a lower back spasm, couldn't do big lower body movements for about 6 months. That groin is still not as strong as my right side.

Now at least I'm aware of it and do loads of banded mobilisations at the start of each session which loosens everything up and gets it all moving better.

Just one of those things that I've to spend an extra few minutes on if I want to squat deep and heavy.

Nobody died from sunstroke on their daft amounts or exercise in the sun today?


Bank holiday squat session followed by food and a mid afternoon nap today. Perfect.

Worked up to 145. Got one, bailed on the second. Lost my hip shape, probably should have had it.

https://imgur.com/a/arCthrq

It was a close run thing. Finished in 11th place overall which was ace. Never seen a race with so many people walking.

Missed a 105kg bench by a whisker this morning. Should have had it, would have on another day. Was banging out singles at 102.5 fine. Heavy, but form was good and the bar was fast.
Followed up with reps at lower weights, and then pin press.

Was wearing a stringer and I was sliding around on the bench by the end, far too sweaty. Tried chalking up the bench, but it did nothing.

Nolanator wrote:Missed a 105kg bench by a whisker this morning. Should have had it, would have on another day. Was banging out singles at 102.5 fine. Heavy, but form was good and the bar was fast.
Followed up with reps at lower weights, and then pin press.

Was wearing a stringer and I was sliding around on the bench by the end, far too sweaty. Tried chalking up the bench, but it did nothing.

Nice-sch!

As we’re talking pressing and you’re a strong lad and roughly a similar size/shape to me, how realistic do you reckon pressing a 48kg KB overhead would be for you?

It’s the next standard on my list and seems a long way off at the moment - wondering whether it’s even worth aiming for. The next standard up is bodyweight bench x 15 reps (which somehow seems more achievable!)

Tried coastal rowing for the first time over the weekend down Swanage way in Dorset. Did 17km in a single on Saturday and another 17km on Sunday. It's fecking ace.

Joost wrote:

Nolanator wrote:Missed a 105kg bench by a whisker this morning. Should have had it, would have on another day. Was banging out singles at 102.5 fine. Heavy, but form was good and the bar was fast.
Followed up with reps at lower weights, and then pin press.

Was wearing a stringer and I was sliding around on the bench by the end, far too sweaty. Tried chalking up the bench, but it did nothing.

Nice-sch!

As we’re talking pressing and you’re a strong lad and roughly a similar size/shape to me, how realistic do you reckon pressing a 48kg KB overhead would be for you?

It’s the next standard on my list and seems a long way off at the moment - wondering whether it’s even worth aiming for. The next standard up is bodyweight bench x 15 reps (which somehow seems more achievable!)

Ooh. Not happening. That's fierce heavy. I can strict/military press 72.5, that KB is way over half of that. Granted, I never train unilateral OH work, so I guess some focus on that would improve it.

Is it a strict KB press, or a push press type explosive movement?


I think Bobbity posted those standards here a while ago? Can you throw them up again? They seemed a bit all over the shop. Some stuff that I can do fine, and then a massive jump to the next one. As if their should really be a milestone between them.

danny_fitz wrote:Tried coastal rowing for the first time over the weekend down Swanage way in Dorset. Did 17km in a single on Saturday and another 17km on Sunday. It's fecking ace.

Saw that. Impressive stuff. How were the conditions? Choppy/windy at all?

I was happy with my Saturday morning parkrun and then saw you rowing all that, and BS running 50-something km. Both in ridiculous heat.

Nolanator wrote:

danny_fitz wrote:Tried coastal rowing for the first time over the weekend down Swanage way in Dorset. Did 17km in a single on Saturday and another 17km on Sunday. It's fecking ace.

Saw that. Impressive stuff. How were the conditions? Choppy/windy at all?

I was happy with my Saturday morning parkrun and then saw you rowing all that, and BS running 50-something km. Both in ridiculous heat.

By coastal rowing standards it was pretty flat, there were a few choppy sections when local currents converged around headlands but the boats are pretty forgiving and stable. It was actually pretty cool temperature wise on the coast, perfect conditions really. Stunning bit of coastline. Might have to add a few coastal events to my regatta calendar next year.

Nolanator wrote:

Joost wrote:

Nolanator wrote:Missed a 105kg bench by a whisker this morning. Should have had it, would have on another day. Was banging out singles at 102.5 fine. Heavy, but form was good and the bar was fast.
Followed up with reps at lower weights, and then pin press.

Was wearing a stringer and I was sliding around on the bench by the end, far too sweaty. Tried chalking up the bench, but it did nothing.

Nice-sch!

As we’re talking pressing and you’re a strong lad and roughly a similar size/shape to me, how realistic do you reckon pressing a 48kg KB overhead would be for you?

It’s the next standard on my list and seems a long way off at the moment - wondering whether it’s even worth aiming for. The next standard up is bodyweight bench x 15 reps (which somehow seems more achievable!)

Ooh. Not happening. That's fierce heavy. I can strict/military press 72.5, that KB is way over half of that. Granted, I never train unilateral OH work, so I guess some focus on that would improve it.

Is it a strict KB press, or a push press type explosive movement?


I think Bobbity posted those standards here a while ago? Can you throw them up again? They seemed a bit all over the shop. Some stuff that I can do fine, and then a massive jump to the next one. As if their should really be a milestone between them.

These ones (I’m aiming for 6s across the board, which I think is realistic and am already there or there abouts with all of them apart from the press):
A bit of side-lean is ok, but needs to be a pure press - can do a 32 for reps on both sides and 36 on the right (just), but anything more feels a long way off!

Joost wrote:These ones (I’m aiming for 6s across the board, which I think is realistic and am already there or there abouts with all of them apart from the press):

Spoiler: show

Men’s Standards
Squat Movement

1. Proper Form in the Goblet Squat
2. Goblet Squat: 24K x 10
3. Double KB Front Squat: 32K x 10
4. Bodyweight Back Squat
5. Bodyweight Front Squat
6. Bodyweight Back Squat x 15
7. Bodyweight Overhead Squat x 15

Press Movement
1. Push Ups x 10
2. One Arm KB Press: 24K x 5 per Side
3. Double KB Press: 32K x 5
4. Bench Press: Bodyweight
5. One Arm Overhead Press: ½ Bodyweight
6. Bench Press: Bodyweight x 15
7. Two Arm KB Press: Bodyweight

Hip Hinge Movement

1. Hip Hinge with Proper Form (From stand, floor and loaded)
2. Kettlebell Swing: 24K x 20 (Proper Form)
3. Double Kettlebell Clean: 32K x 10
4. Barbell Clean: Bodyweight
5. Barbell Deadlift: Double Bodyweight
6. Barbell Snatch: Bodyweight
7. Barbell Deadlift 2.5 x Bodyweight

Pull Movement
1. Batwings, thumbs in armpits, 16K x 10 seconds
2. Bodyweight Row on Rings/TRX x 20
3. Bodyweight Row, feet elevated, x 10
4. Chin Ups x 5
5. Pull Ups x 8-10
6. Pull Ups x 15
7. Weighted Pull Up with 48 K

A bit of side-lean is ok, but needs to be a pure press - can do a 32 for reps on both sides and 36 on the right (just), but anything more feels a long way off!

Yeah, there's no consistency there.
I can do no.6 for squat no bother, but have horrible shoulder and thoracic mobility, so heavy OH squats are out of the question. The jump from BWx15 to BW OHx15 is enormous. There really should be some 1.5xBW metric in there.

Can only get no.4 on press. At a guess I'd only have 7 reps in me at BW. Bench is my weakes lift, relatively, TBF.

I've almost got no.7 on hinge, but I can't do a snatch for the same reasons that I can't OH squat, never-mind BW snatch. Plus, KB cleans are explosive movements, DLs are not. There's obviously some crossover, but one doesn't lead to the other.

Can probably do no.6 on pull, haven't maxed out pull ups in ages. Definitely can do no.5. Again, the jump from BWx15 to +48kg is massive. There no coherent progression from one to the other. One is a strength stamina challenge, the other is pure strength. I can just about do a pull up with 25kg added, 48kg may as well be another 100kg.


It's silly having highly technical Olympic lifts in there. There's a huge amount of technique involved and unless you specifically train them to a high level, you're not going to hit those metrics.
The exercise selection seems very arbitrary.

Here’s the full article, in-case it’s of interest: http://danjohn.net/2013/04/strength-sta ... n-seattle/

I love Dan John’s stuff - believe ODave has done a fair bit of work with him. The 7s are the minimum standards required for a top-level College thrower in track and field (DJ’s background), so well out of reach for most of us!

Joost wrote:Here’s the full article, in-case it’s of interest: http://danjohn.net/2013/04/strength-sta ... n-seattle/

I love Dan John’s stuff - believe ODave has done a fair bit of work with him. The 7s are the minimum standards required for a top-level College thrower in track and field (DJ’s background), so well out of reach for most of us!

Always thought they were a bit mixed up to be honest. Think some of them ( like the squat level 7) aren’t really strength movement.

Wouldn’t it be better to use less movements as you go up the levels?

Got back from SA on Sunday and weighed myself for first time in a month. I’d put on 9kgs ffs. Bit pissed off as I’d worked so bloody hard to get down to 73 but all that good work undone in just 4 weeks. I can only assume it was all the biltong. Went for run today and was so far off my usual pace it wasn’t funny. Bit annoying as have the Glasgow half coming up and was hoping for something in the 1.30 ballpark but now think anything sub 1.45 will be an achievement.

HKCJ wrote:Got back from SA on Sunday and weighed myself for first time in a month. I’d put on 9kgs ffs. Bit pissed off as I’d worked so bloody hard to get down to 73 but all that good work undone in just 4 weeks. I can only assume it was all the biltong. Went for run today and was so far off my usual pace it wasn’t funny. Bit annoying as have the Glasgow half coming up and was hoping for something in the 1.30 ballpark but now think anything sub 1.45 will be an achievement.

Fark

newportblue wrote:

Joost wrote:Here’s the full article, in-case it’s of interest: http://danjohn.net/2013/04/strength-sta ... n-seattle/

I love Dan John’s stuff - believe ODave has done a fair bit of work with him. The 7s are the minimum standards required for a top-level College thrower in track and field (DJ’s background), so well out of reach for most of us!

Always thought they were a bit mixed up to be honest. Think some of them ( like the squat level 7) aren’t really strength movement.

Wouldn’t it be better to use less movements as you go up the levels?

I guess you can always find a half-way house on something like the deadlift if you don’t want to try BB snatches (I have no particular inclination to learn to OH squat or Snatch - that’s for professional athletes or instagram-obsessed crossfitters who want to get injured in my book!)

I can’t help thinking the press section is out of whack with the other standards (eg 15xbw back squats is a lot easier than bench presses!), but perhaps I’m just a weak presser