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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:50 am 
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Jim Lahey wrote:
The dream would be to someday go under 20mins but I’d need to lose a serious amount of lard before that is achievable.
I’m currently recovering from a dislocated shoulder from a match 7 or 8 weeks ago and I’d made a promise to myself to spend this time boosting my cardio engine given I can’t do my normal weights routine or swim.


I've been told plenty (by Blindsider amongst others) that the easiest way to reduce your time is to lose weight. My PB is 22:32 about 15 months ago, think I was about 5kg lighter at the time and regularly doing a circuit class once or twice a week. Parkrun is the only cardio I do these days, so I haven't got anywhere near that in ages. I do too much lifting during the rest of the week to reasonably fit in any other aerobic activity and still vaguely function as an adult. Don't want to reduce lifting as I enjoy it too much. happy enought just tipping along with Parkrun as it is and taking slow improvements whenever I put together a decent streak of consecutive weekends. RWC KO times made a mess of that consistency, though.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:13 pm 
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531 question. Restarted after a long time off and in second cycle. Last set reps are getting a bit more like endurance eg tonight week2 squats 96kg for 20 reps and bench press is like 17 reps. Do I recalc 1 rep max or give it some time to level out as weights go up? I dont mind high reps as I'm a fat bastard at present but doing 20+ reps is quite high. Accessory sets are 50% BBB.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:17 pm 
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kiwinoz wrote:
531 question. Restarted after a long time off and in second cycle. Last set reps are getting a bit more like endurance eg tonight week2 squats 96kg for 20 reps and bench press is like 17 reps. Do I recalc 1 rep max or give it some time to level out as weights go up? I dont mind high reps as I'm a fat bastard at present but doing 20+ reps is quite high. Accessory sets are 50% BBB.



I’d test all of your 1rm’s again and recalculate.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:25 pm 
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mr flaps wrote:
kiwinoz wrote:
531 question. Restarted after a long time off and in second cycle. Last set reps are getting a bit more like endurance eg tonight week2 squats 96kg for 20 reps and bench press is like 17 reps. Do I recalc 1 rep max or give it some time to level out as weights go up? I dont mind high reps as I'm a fat bastard at present but doing 20+ reps is quite high. Accessory sets are 50% BBB.



I’d test all of your 1rm’s again and recalculate.


Yeah, retest 1RMs. What are you basing the weights off?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:26 pm 
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kiwinoz wrote:
531 question. Restarted after a long time off and in second cycle. Last set reps are getting a bit more like endurance eg tonight week2 squats 96kg for 20 reps and bench press is like 17 reps. Do I recalc 1 rep max or give it some time to level out as weights go up? I dont mind high reps as I'm a fat bastard at present but doing 20+ reps is quite high. Accessory sets are 50% BBB.


When you say restarted, do you mean restarted 531 or restarted training? If it’s restarted 531 then I would retest. If it’s restarted training you may be better doing a “beginner” program for a few weeks, your number should come up pretty quick. 531 is great but it’s slow progression. If youre at a stage where you can make progression quicker and easier, I’d choose something else. IMO Anyway.

I’d always aim for about double the reps at the start of 531. So in 5s week hitting 10.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:30 pm 
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newportblue wrote:
kiwinoz wrote:
531 question. Restarted after a long time off and in second cycle. Last set reps are getting a bit more like endurance eg tonight week2 squats 96kg for 20 reps and bench press is like 17 reps. Do I recalc 1 rep max or give it some time to level out as weights go up? I dont mind high reps as I'm a fat bastard at present but doing 20+ reps is quite high. Accessory sets are 50% BBB.


When you say restarted, do you mean restarted 531 or restarted training? If it’s restarted 531 then I would retest. If it’s restarted training you may be better doing a “beginner” program for a few weeks, your number should come up pretty quick. 531 is great but it’s slow progression. If youre at a stage where you can make progression quicker and easier, I’d choose something else. IMO Anyway.

I’d always aim for about double the reps at the start of 531. So in 5s week hitting 10.


Actually, that's a good point. Cash in on the noob gainz while you can. At that stage the return on training investment (hours in the gym) is huge and it's not really too important how you structure your week. Switch to 5/3/1 after you've been going consistently for a few months and feel your rate of progress dropping.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:33 pm 
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For squats it was 100x10 as starter. So its nice in 6 weeks to be doing nearly twice as much but its off a low base. Wendler says a low base is fine and almost suggests it. I sort of treat it as volume work owed for latervwhen we flatten out the gainz.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:40 pm 
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kiwinoz wrote:
For squats it was 100x10 as starter. So its nice in 6 weeks to be doing nearly twice as much but its off a low base. Wendler says a low base is fine and almost suggests it. I sort of treat it as volume work owed for latervwhen we flatten out the gainz.


Did you do 100 to failure, got 10, calculated your projected 1RM, and based your weekly weights from that?
Or is it simply that in week 1 you managed 10 reps in your top set to failure and the following cycle it had doubled?

If the former, test your true 1RM or base it off a tested 3RM and re-do your program. If the latter, pick a different program, your progress is far outstripping the pacing built into 531.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:17 pm 
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Nolanator wrote:
kiwinoz wrote:
For squats it was 100x10 as starter. So its nice in 6 weeks to be doing nearly twice as much but its off a low base. Wendler says a low base is fine and almost suggests it. I sort of treat it as volume work owed for latervwhen we flatten out the gainz.


Did you do 100 to failure, got 10, calculated your projected 1RM, and based your weekly weights from that?
Or is it simply that in week 1 you managed 10 reps in your top set to failure and the following cycle it had doubled?

If the former, test your true 1RM or base it off a tested 3RM and re-do your program. If the latter, pick a different program, your progress is far outstripping the pacing built into 531.


100 for 10 was probably one off failure. Used that as the base as I am 55 and not playing to ego. May need to retest as I am doing it with my 19 year old son and same issue for him. At 82kg he did 100kg deadlift for 20 reps


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:29 pm 
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kiwinoz wrote:
Nolanator wrote:
kiwinoz wrote:
For squats it was 100x10 as starter. So its nice in 6 weeks to be doing nearly twice as much but its off a low base. Wendler says a low base is fine and almost suggests it. I sort of treat it as volume work owed for latervwhen we flatten out the gainz.


Did you do 100 to failure, got 10, calculated your projected 1RM, and based your weekly weights from that?
Or is it simply that in week 1 you managed 10 reps in your top set to failure and the following cycle it had doubled?

If the former, test your true 1RM or base it off a tested 3RM and re-do your program. If the latter, pick a different program, your progress is far outstripping the pacing built into 531.


100 for 10 was probably one off failure. Used that as the base as I am 55 and not playing to ego. May need to retest as I am doing it with my 19 year old son and same issue for him. At 82kg he did 100kg deadlift for 20 reps


Yeah, retest those numbers. Even if you don't go to true 1RM, calculating your projected 1RM from a 5RM or lower is still reasonably accurate.
That said, different people have different capacities for reps to failure at a give percentage load. Get a bunch of people to test their true 1RM and then get them to rep 70% of that to failure and you'll get a huge range of what they can do. Some people can go for days at a given %, others tire more quickly, but their absolute strength is very good.
Projecting 1RM from rep loads above 8 or so is very inaccurate.

Also, 55 means nothing!


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:17 am 
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Nolanator wrote:
kiwinoz wrote:
Nolanator wrote:
kiwinoz wrote:
For squats it was 100x10 as starter. So its nice in 6 weeks to be doing nearly twice as much but its off a low base. Wendler says a low base is fine and almost suggests it. I sort of treat it as volume work owed for latervwhen we flatten out the gainz.


Did you do 100 to failure, got 10, calculated your projected 1RM, and based your weekly weights from that?
Or is it simply that in week 1 you managed 10 reps in your top set to failure and the following cycle it had doubled?

If the former, test your true 1RM or base it off a tested 3RM and re-do your program. If the latter, pick a different program, your progress is far outstripping the pacing built into 531.


100 for 10 was probably one off failure. Used that as the base as I am 55 and not playing to ego. May need to retest as I am doing it with my 19 year old son and same issue for him. At 82kg he did 100kg deadlift for 20 reps


Yeah, retest those numbers. Even if you don't go to true 1RM, calculating your projected 1RM from a 5RM or lower is still reasonably accurate.
That said, different people have different capacities for reps to failure at a give percentage load. Get a bunch of people to test their true 1RM and then get them to rep 70% of that to failure and you'll get a huge range of what they can do. Some people can go for days at a given %, others tire more quickly, but their absolute strength is very good.
Projecting 1RM from rep loads above 8 or so is very inaccurate.

Also, 55 means nothing!


For me it means that selective memory of what you used to do means nothing. Think we will retest and yoiur comments about 1 rep max vs 70% is true. Deadlift is weird. 120kg etc multiple reps easy. But at 140kg the bar is bolted to the ground and will not move and even off tyre rims it barely moves. :frown:


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:25 am 
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Nolanator wrote:

Also, 55 means nothing!


Yes it does, it means he qualifies for "Old Man Strength" and can now pick up a tractor tyre with one arm.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:33 am 
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Jay Cee Gee wrote:
Nolanator wrote:

Also, 55 means nothing!


Yes it does, it means he qualifies for "Old Man Strength" and can now pick up a tractor tyre with one arm.


No its managing the knee niggle from.last week when my 45kg mastiff ran into me at full tilt, the foot injury from the horse standing on my foot, the wrist strain from shitty form in close grip push ups, the elbow niggle and lack of fkexibility and to keep training without niggles becoming injuries.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:56 am 
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4 x 8 min ergs last night, stroke rate 26, 5 min rest.

1.54.9 split average


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:15 pm 
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kiwinoz wrote:
Jay Cee Gee wrote:
Nolanator wrote:

Also, 55 means nothing!


Yes it does, it means he qualifies for "Old Man Strength" and can now pick up a tractor tyre with one arm.


No its managing the knee niggle from.last week when my 45kg mastiff ran into me at full tilt, the foot injury from the horse standing on my foot, the wrist strain from shitty form in close grip push ups, the elbow niggle and lack of fkexibility and to keep training without niggles becoming injuries.

Ah training just wouldn't be the same with stupid injuries and long terms niggles.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:18 pm 
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Ran on a treadmill this morning, first time in 4 months!
Did a 5k split into 500m intervals at 12 and 15 km/h. Corresponds to the pace for 25 and 20 minutes, respectively. Didn't drop off those paces at all, so got it done in 22:30. Felt good.
Might try and do this more often and slowly increase the length of the higher pace and reduce the slower one.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:18 pm 
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kiwinoz wrote:
Nolanator wrote:
kiwinoz wrote:
Nolanator wrote:
kiwinoz wrote:
For squats it was 100x10 as starter. So its nice in 6 weeks to be doing nearly twice as much but its off a low base. Wendler says a low base is fine and almost suggests it. I sort of treat it as volume work owed for latervwhen we flatten out the gainz.


Did you do 100 to failure, got 10, calculated your projected 1RM, and based your weekly weights from that?
Or is it simply that in week 1 you managed 10 reps in your top set to failure and the following cycle it had doubled?

If the former, test your true 1RM or base it off a tested 3RM and re-do your program. If the latter, pick a different program, your progress is far outstripping the pacing built into 531.


100 for 10 was probably one off failure. Used that as the base as I am 55 and not playing to ego. May need to retest as I am doing it with my 19 year old son and same issue for him. At 82kg he did 100kg deadlift for 20 reps


Yeah, retest those numbers. Even if you don't go to true 1RM, calculating your projected 1RM from a 5RM or lower is still reasonably accurate.
That said, different people have different capacities for reps to failure at a give percentage load. Get a bunch of people to test their true 1RM and then get them to rep 70% of that to failure and you'll get a huge range of what they can do. Some people can go for days at a given %, others tire more quickly, but their absolute strength is very good.
Projecting 1RM from rep loads above 8 or so is very inaccurate.

Also, 55 means nothing!


For me it means that selective memory of what you used to do means nothing. Think we will retest and yoiur comments about 1 rep max vs 70% is true. Deadlift is weird. 120kg etc multiple reps easy. But at 140kg the bar is bolted to the ground and will not move and even off tyre rims it barely moves. :frown:


Deadlift is a weird one because, in my opinion, your mental strength is key here. Often people see three plates on the bar and the brian is thinking "Holy shit, ain't no way we can move that" and then you don't. It took me so long to hit a 180kg deadlift because of a mental block - now it's a warmup weight.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:20 pm 
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Oooh. Look at Jonny big balls over here with his warmup weight. :frown:


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:27 pm 
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Stream is too fast to row in at the moment, all red boarded.

Tempted to make our novices do a bleep test since they are not on the water.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:34 pm 
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Quote:
Deadlift is a weird one because, in my opinion, your mental strength is key here. Often people see three plates on the bar and the brian is thinking "Holy shit, ain't no way we can move that" and then you don't. It took me so long to hit a 180kg deadlift because of a mental block - now it's a warmup weight.


You are right re the mental aspect, I know I should be able to move it but nah ( so far). Yet a few yesrs back was closer to 200kg. I helped my son the other week, could do 90kg dl but not move 100kg so put 110kg on and told him it was 90kg. Got to 5 reps.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:37 pm 
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kiwinoz wrote:
Quote:
Deadlift is a weird one because, in my opinion, your mental strength is key here. Often people see three plates on the bar and the brian is thinking "Holy shit, ain't no way we can move that" and then you don't. It took me so long to hit a 180kg deadlift because of a mental block - now it's a warmup weight.


You are right re the mental aspect, I know I should be able to move it but nah ( so far). Yet a few yesrs back was closer to 200kg. I helped my son the other week, could do 90kg dl but not move 100kg so put 110kg on and told him it was 90kg. Got to 5 reps.

:lol:
That's the benefit of someone else selecting the weights and setting the bar up, couples with not being able to instantly recognise the weight by the size/shape/colour of the plates.

100, 140, 180, 220 are such mental hurdles because they're nice round multiples of 20s.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:50 pm 
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Nolanator wrote:
Ran on a treadmill this morning, first time in 4 months!
Did a 5k split into 500m intervals at 12 and 15 km/h. Corresponds to the pace for 25 and 20 minutes, respectively. Didn't drop off those paces at all, so got it done in 22:30. Felt good.
Might try and do this more often and slowly increase the length of the higher pace and reduce the slower one.


Did it take off ?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:53 pm 
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kiwinoz wrote:
Nolanator wrote:
kiwinoz wrote:
For squats it was 100x10 as starter. So its nice in 6 weeks to be doing nearly twice as much but its off a low base. Wendler says a low base is fine and almost suggests it. I sort of treat it as volume work owed for latervwhen we flatten out the gainz.


Did you do 100 to failure, got 10, calculated your projected 1RM, and based your weekly weights from that?
Or is it simply that in week 1 you managed 10 reps in your top set to failure and the following cycle it had doubled?

If the former, test your true 1RM or base it off a tested 3RM and re-do your program. If the latter, pick a different program, your progress is far outstripping the pacing built into 531.


100 for 10 was probably one off failure. Used that as the base as I am 55 and not playing to ego. May need to retest as I am doing it with my 19 year old son and same issue for him. At 82kg he did 100kg deadlift for 20 reps


“Not playing to ego” what’s that got to do with running a program incorrectly?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:54 pm 
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backrow wrote:
Nolanator wrote:
Ran on a treadmill this morning, first time in 4 months!
Did a 5k split into 500m intervals at 12 and 15 km/h. Corresponds to the pace for 25 and 20 minutes, respectively. Didn't drop off those paces at all, so got it done in 22:30. Felt good.
Might try and do this more often and slowly increase the length of the higher pace and reduce the slower one.


Did it take off ?


lol. No, but it is overlooking a mezzanine into the weights area, would be an impressive launch.

On reflection, maybe watching girls in leggings a crop tops doing a sumo deadlift session also helped me.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:58 pm 
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Nolanator wrote:
backrow wrote:
Nolanator wrote:
Ran on a treadmill this morning, first time in 4 months!
Did a 5k split into 500m intervals at 12 and 15 km/h. Corresponds to the pace for 25 and 20 minutes, respectively. Didn't drop off those paces at all, so got it done in 22:30. Felt good.
Might try and do this more often and slowly increase the length of the higher pace and reduce the slower one.


Did it take off ?


lol. No, but it is overlooking a mezzanine into the weights area, would be an impressive launch.

On reflection, maybe watching girls in leggings a crop tops doing a sumo deadlift session also helped me.


My uni gym had that adductor machine facing inward toward the static bikes - there was one anglo Asian burd who got asked to leave because she Always did her excercises when a bloke was on the bikes and the gym head coach guy busted her (after much perving it had to be said)


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:59 pm 
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Those machines are so pointless, besides the perve value.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:59 pm 
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Nolanator wrote:
kiwinoz wrote:
Quote:
Deadlift is a weird one because, in my opinion, your mental strength is key here. Often people see three plates on the bar and the brian is thinking "Holy shit, ain't no way we can move that" and then you don't. It took me so long to hit a 180kg deadlift because of a mental block - now it's a warmup weight.


You are right re the mental aspect, I know I should be able to move it but nah ( so far). Yet a few yesrs back was closer to 200kg. I helped my son the other week, could do 90kg dl but not move 100kg so put 110kg on and told him it was 90kg. Got to 5 reps.

:lol:
That's the benefit of someone else selecting the weights and setting the bar up, couples with not being able to instantly recognise the weight by the size/shape/colour of the plates.

100, 140, 180, 220 are such mental hurdles because they're nice round multiples of 20s.

Spot on. It's seeing all those blue plates either side - it makes it an occasion.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:05 pm 
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Nolanator wrote:
Those machines are so pointless, besides the perve value.


Orly? Why ? Surely any machine with resistance will make you stronger?

The only pointless things I know of are those 1960’s ‘wobble rubber band’ machines that were meant to make women less fat


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:23 pm 
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feckwanker wrote:
Nolanator wrote:
kiwinoz wrote:
Quote:
Deadlift is a weird one because, in my opinion, your mental strength is key here. Often people see three plates on the bar and the brian is thinking "Holy shit, ain't no way we can move that" and then you don't. It took me so long to hit a 180kg deadlift because of a mental block - now it's a warmup weight.


You are right re the mental aspect, I know I should be able to move it but nah ( so far). Yet a few yesrs back was closer to 200kg. I helped my son the other week, could do 90kg dl but not move 100kg so put 110kg on and told him it was 90kg. Got to 5 reps.

:lol:
That's the benefit of someone else selecting the weights and setting the bar up, couples with not being able to instantly recognise the weight by the size/shape/colour of the plates.

100, 140, 180, 220 are such mental hurdles because they're nice round multiples of 20s.

Spot on. It's seeing all those blue plates either side - it makes it an occasion.


Doing this at home, so only a few bumpers and the rest hammertone. No pretty rows of blue but 100kg would be a 10kg bumper, 20kg and 10kg hammertone done in the carport. But the round numbers as hurdles still applies :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 3:05 pm 
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backrow wrote:
Nolanator wrote:
Those machines are so pointless, besides the perve value.


Orly? Why ? Surely any machine with resistance will make you stronger?

The only pointless things I know of are those 1960’s ‘wobble rubber band’ machines that were meant to make women less fat


Well, yes. They're resistance training and they will improve the strength and muscle tone of the muscles targetted. They're crap in terms of bang for your buck with the time invested, though.
I admit massive bias towards barbell movements, but the time spent sitting on thigh adductor/abductor machines would be better served doing different variations of squats and DLs. Adductors (closing thighs) are used as a significant mover during squats.
Glute bridges or various banded exercises target the abductors and glutes.

Spend that time doing big compound moves and you'll train those muscles, while also training everything else. The girls I've seen with the best proportions in terms of small waists and athletic thighs/arse have always been ones who squat and deadlift. Not ones who run on a treadmill and then sit on adductor machines.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 3:09 pm 
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Best proportioned girls I’ve seen, almost never went to a gym

:smug:


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:08 pm 
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I find deadlifts to be the mentally toughest lifts. I think it’s because it’s so easy to fail them with no consequences. The thought of being pinned under a heavy squat/bench is unpleasant enough that it adds some desperate motivation.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:33 pm 
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DLs felt good this morning. Think the technique is improving bit by bit.

DL: 170x3,3 180x1,1, 170x5
Hip thrusts: 210x10 / Pull ups: BW x8, 3 sets
SA cable row
Back extensions
Narrow LPD
Curls

DLs. Tell me how bad they are, Flaps! Some were better than others, clearly.
In the second set I found myself leaning backwards more. Think it helped take a bit of the load off my lower back and might help me keep my chest up.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:56 pm 
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Nolanator wrote:
DLs felt good this morning. Think the technique is improving bit by bit.

DL: 170x3,3 180x1,1, 170x5
Hip thrusts: 210x10 / Pull ups: BW x8, 3 sets
SA cable row
Back extensions
Narrow LPD
Curls

DLs. Tell me how bad they are, Flaps! Some were better than others, clearly.
In the second set I found myself leaning backwards more. Think it helped take a bit of the load off my lower back and might help me keep my chest up.



Better. I’d wear that belt a little lower.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 3:02 pm 
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425lb/194kg front squat from last year. Should of done the 440/200kg

https://youtu.be/xr6tP5im3QE


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 3:20 pm 
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Nolanator wrote:
DLs felt good this morning. Think the technique is improving bit by bit.

DL: 170x3,3 180x1,1, 170x5
Hip thrusts: 210x10 / Pull ups: BW x8, 3 sets
SA cable row
Back extensions
Narrow LPD
Curls

DLs. Tell me how bad they are, Flaps! Some were better than others, clearly.
In the second set I found myself leaning backwards more. Think it helped take a bit of the load off my lower back and might help me keep my chest up.

That belt (while aiding your internal core strength) can also act as an additional hinge point resulting in your upper torso not staying upright.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 3:25 pm 
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I've found that wearing it higher feels good for bracing against with my diaphragm and upper core. Probably true that it's giving me a second hinge point for DLs, though.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 3:26 pm 
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mr flaps wrote:
425lb/194kg front squat from last year. Should of done the 440/200kg

https://youtu.be/xr6tP5im3QE


Big.
Your torso goes way further forward than mine on front squats, more of a lean.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 3:33 pm 
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Nolanator wrote:
I've found that wearing it higher feels good for bracing against with my diaphragm and upper core. Probably true that it's giving me a second hinge point for DLs, though.


I am the same with dead’s. Bench and squat it goes round my belly button. Deads it goes further up. It feels more comfortable there while deadlifting.

What you said about learning back more, My deadlift feels the best when I get as much weight behind the bar as possible.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 3:36 pm 
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newportblue wrote:
Nolanator wrote:
I've found that wearing it higher feels good for bracing against with my diaphragm and upper core. Probably true that it's giving me a second hinge point for DLs, though.


I am the same with dead’s. Bench and squat it goes round my belly button. Deads it goes further up. It feels more comfortable there while deadlifting.

What you said about learning back more, My deadlift feels the best when I get as much weight behind the bar as possible.


Yeah, I definitely think I've been keeping my weight above the bar, rather than behind it.
Wearing the belt higher for DLs also helps minimise rolls of flab getting in the way as you're bent double.


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