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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 2:49 pm 
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A5D5E5 wrote:
bimboman wrote:
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Yep. Unions, co-ops and friendly societies are totally about self-interest.



:lol: , while I see your sarcasm at work, Unions have a job to do and they survive on doing that job which is to benefit its members in a self interested way.

Bob Crow although loathsome did a briliant job extorting tube passengers in London.


Unions are about collective interest rather than self interest. They are frequently contrary to the interests of wider society. Unions represent one of the systems of checks and balances that exist in our economic and social constructs. If they become too powerful they become a malignant force. As do the interests of shareholders, executives, etc. However, if they are too weak then the people they represent become abused (as say shareholders would if unions were too powerful).



How big does the collective have to be and how representative do the unions need to be ?

I see your point, I don't personally accept they are always working for the best of their members (in fairness I bring up Crow as the example of doing his job,because pretty much every effort went into more money for the tube drivers)...


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 2:57 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
A5D5E5 wrote:
bimboman wrote:
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Yep. Unions, co-ops and friendly societies are totally about self-interest.



:lol: , while I see your sarcasm at work, Unions have a job to do and they survive on doing that job which is to benefit its members in a self interested way.

Bob Crow although loathsome did a briliant job extorting tube passengers in London.


Unions are about collective interest rather than self interest. They are frequently contrary to the interests of wider society. Unions represent one of the systems of checks and balances that exist in our economic and social constructs. If they become too powerful they become a malignant force. As do the interests of shareholders, executives, etc. However, if they are too weak then the people they represent become abused (as say shareholders would if unions were too powerful).



How big does the collective have to be and how representative do the unions need to be ?

I see your point, I don't personally accept they are always working for the best of their members (in fairness I bring up Crow as the example of doing his job,because pretty much every effort went into more money for the tube drivers)...


Just like any organisation, the leadership of a union sometimes goes rogue and fails to represent the interests of the poplulation they are supposed to be working for. It doesn't invalidate the principle (as you acknowledge).

More than that, sometimes the interests of one part of the membership can be in direct conflict with that of another part (say the Nottinghamshire miners and the South Wales minors).

An ideal union would have a homogeneous membership and enough size to get them a seat at the table in any decision or negotiation, but not so much influence that they can hold an industry to ransom. In practice of course, this is unlikely to be the case most of the time. Hence the need for legislation to set out fair boundaries on union power (and similarly for executive power and shareholder power etc).

Of course, wars have been fought over issues far less complex than "fair boundaries on union power".


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:25 pm 
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Yip, see most of those points.


I disagree personally because I saw many "union" fights in my part of London which destroyed the industry and shortened working lives and made its members poorer, the reason I mention Crow is I personally know a London Tube drivers family and they are part of the elite of you measured them by income and lifestyle, job done I say.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:32 am 
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Sefton wrote:
The Sunday Times has really gone to town on the true believer Facebook pages finding a couple of thousand racist, mysoginistic and anti-Semitic comments.


I see that Corbyn has deleted his Facebook account now, presumably to prevent any further revelations about the anti-semitic Facebook groups he was a member of (the latest count was up to five yesterday), and so the Labour Party can maintain its position that the Facebook groups noted in the Sunday Times investigation were nothing to do with the Labour Party (would be difficult if Corbyn and members of his team were members of these groups).


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:35 am 
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Can anyone here quote an anti-Semitic statement from Jeremy Corbyn?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:40 am 
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Thai guy wrote:
Can anyone here quote an anti-Semitic statement from Jeremy Corbyn?


Should they also quote a strawman from you as well?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:03 am 
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Labour MP Peter Kyle insisted Mr Corbyn could have the offensive groups closed down “in a heartbeat” and demanded he take immediate action.
“The administrators of these Facebook groups are all avid fans of Jeremy, so he doesn't have to go via Facebook to get them shut down, he can simply call these people up and it would be done in a heartbeat”


What are the odds on Kyle being deselected in the very near future?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:07 am 
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A5D5E5 wrote:
Thai guy wrote:
Can anyone here quote an anti-Semitic statement from Jeremy Corbyn?


Should they also quote a strawman from you as well?
No, just one anti-semitic statement. Anything will do.

It's just that the narrative from the UK RWNJs who are petrified of a Corbyn led government are painting a picture of him being an anti-semite as a way to discredit him.

I'd just like to see evidence of him being an anti-semite.

When you're ready. :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:10 am 
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Thai guy wrote:
A5D5E5 wrote:
Thai guy wrote:
Can anyone here quote an anti-Semitic statement from Jeremy Corbyn?


Should they also quote a strawman from you as well?
No, just one anti-semitic statement. Anything will do.

It's just that the narrative from the UK RWNJs who are petrified of a Corbyn led government are painting a picture of him being an anti-semite as a way to discredit him.

I'd just like to see evidence of him being an anti-semite.

When you're ready. :lol:


So formerly Labour supporting Jews are RWNJs are they?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:18 am 
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Santa wrote:
Thai guy wrote:
A5D5E5 wrote:
Thai guy wrote:
Can anyone here quote an anti-Semitic statement from Jeremy Corbyn?


Should they also quote a strawman from you as well?
No, just one anti-semitic statement. Anything will do.

It's just that the narrative from the UK RWNJs who are petrified of a Corbyn led government are painting a picture of him being an anti-semite as a way to discredit him.

I'd just like to see evidence of him being an anti-semite.

When you're ready. :lol:


So formerly Labour supporting Jews are RWNJs are they?
Certainly they are. But anyway, do you have any anti semitic statements from Corbyn?


Last edited by Thai guy on Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:18 am 
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Thai guy wrote:
A5D5E5 wrote:
Thai guy wrote:
Can anyone here quote an anti-Semitic statement from Jeremy Corbyn?


Should they also quote a strawman from you as well?
No, just one anti-semitic statement. Anything will do.

It's just that the narrative from the UK RWNJs who are petrified of a Corbyn led government are painting a picture of him being an anti-semite as a way to discredit him.

I'd just like to see evidence of him being an anti-semite.

When you're ready. :lol:



His support for the mural artist was more than enough.....

and you're right the thought of an old man version of you being in power in the UK is quite terrifying ... Your views are not only evil, but you're immensely thick.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:19 am 
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Noone is accusing him of being antisemitic.

But it appears that the labour party and old fool himself don't regard it as a serious issue that seems to be widespread amongst their most avid supporters.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:21 am 
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bimboman wrote:
Thai guy wrote:
A5D5E5 wrote:
Thai guy wrote:
Can anyone here quote an anti-Semitic statement from Jeremy Corbyn?


Should they also quote a strawman from you as well?
No, just one anti-semitic statement. Anything will do.

It's just that the narrative from the UK RWNJs who are petrified of a Corbyn led government are painting a picture of him being an anti-semite as a way to discredit him.

I'd just like to see evidence of him being an anti-semite.

When you're ready. :lol:



His support for the mural artist was more than enough.....

and you're right the thought of an old man version of you being in power in the UK is quite terrifying ... Your views are not only evil, but you're immensely thick.
That all you've got? That's the source of the latest wave of hate? The mural which was removed six years ago.

I was expecting a lot more anti Jew stuff quite frankly.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:23 am 
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message #2527204 wrote:
Noone is accusing him of being antisemitic.
That's good. This latest RWNJ rant has no basis in fact then. :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:23 am 
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message #2527204 wrote:
Noone is accusing him of being antisemitic.

But it appears that the labour party and old fool himself don't regard it as a serious issue that seems to be widespread amongst their most avid supporters.



He shares platforms with lots of anti Semites of course. And has lots of his friends that are anti Semites. And doesn't think obnoxious public art which is anti Semitic should be censured. And is a "friend" of Hamas etc etc.

He's had his online and on film past massively scrubbed so we can't actually view much of this but he isn't a friend of the Jews.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:23 am 
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Thai guy wrote:
message #2527204 wrote:
Noone is accusing him of being antisemitic.
That's good. This latest RWNJ rant has no basis in fact then. :lol:



Thick.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:24 am 
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Thai guy wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Thai guy wrote:
A5D5E5 wrote:
Thai guy wrote:
Can anyone here quote an anti-Semitic statement from Jeremy Corbyn?


Should they also quote a strawman from you as well?
No, just one anti-semitic statement. Anything will do.

It's just that the narrative from the UK RWNJs who are petrified of a Corbyn led government are painting a picture of him being an anti-semite as a way to discredit him.

I'd just like to see evidence of him being an anti-semite.

When you're ready. :lol:



His support for the mural artist was more than enough.....

and you're right the thought of an old man version of you being in power in the UK is quite terrifying ... Your views are not only evil, but you're immensely thick.
That all you've got? That's the source of the latest wave of hate? The mural which was removed six years ago.

I was expecting a lot more anti Jew stuff quite frankly.



Did you see the mural ? Did you approve of it ?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:28 am 
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bimboman wrote:
Did you see the mural ? Did you approve of it ?
I've seen it. Wasn't a big deal...until someone hated free speech and wrecked it.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:30 am 
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Thai guy wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Did you see the mural ? Did you approve of it ?
I've seen it. Wasn't a big deal...until someone hated free speech and wrecked it.



You don't think that mural was racist ?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:31 am 
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bimboman wrote:
message #2527204 wrote:
Noone is accusing him of being antisemitic.

But it appears that the labour party and old fool himself don't regard it as a serious issue that seems to be widespread amongst their most avid supporters.



He shares platforms with lots of anti Semites of course. And has lots of his friends that are anti Semites. And doesn't think obnoxious public art which is anti Semitic should be censured. And is a "friend" of Hamas etc etc.

He's had his online and on film past massively scrubbed so we can't actually view much of this but he isn't a friend of the Jews.
How does not being a friend of the Jews automatically translate as anti-semitic? Is it a case of 'you are either with us or against us'?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:33 am 
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bimboman wrote:
Thai guy wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Did you see the mural ? Did you approve of it ?
I've seen it. Wasn't a big deal...until someone hated free speech and wrecked it.



You don't think that mural was racist ?
Not even slightly.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:34 am 
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Thai guy wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Thai guy wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Did you see the mural ? Did you approve of it ?
I've seen it. Wasn't a big deal...until someone hated free speech and wrecked it.



You don't think that mural was racist ?
Not even slightly.



Then with no respect at all you're not worth discussing anti semitism with because you don't understand its meaning in anyway. Even Corbyn has now accepted it's grossly anti semetic and wrong.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:46 am 
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bimboman wrote:
Thai guy wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Thai guy wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Did you see the mural ? Did you approve of it ?
I've seen it. Wasn't a big deal...until someone hated free speech and wrecked it.



You don't think that mural was racist ?
Not even slightly.



Then with no respect at all you're not worth discussing anti semitism with because you don't understand its meaning in anyway. Even Corbyn has now accepted it's grossly anti semetic and wrong.
Where did get your username and why did you decide it was a good idea?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:49 am 
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Spoiler: show
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:53 am 
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Thai guy wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Thai guy wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Did you see the mural ? Did you approve of it ?
I've seen it. Wasn't a big deal...until someone hated free speech and wrecked it.



You don't think that mural was racist ?
Not even slightly.


Now is that being honest or are you just holding a contrarian line? That mural could have appeared in Der Angriff and not been out of place.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:55 am 
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The RW of England are in a lot of trouble if all they can come up with is memes of Corbyn with Hitler and Stalin and Trotsky and a mural on an East London wall which no longer exists.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:57 am 
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Thai guy wrote:
The RW of England are in a lot of trouble if all they can come up with is memes of Corbyn with Hitler and Stalin and Trotsky and a mural on an East London wall which no longer exists.



Yeah, while you don't think the mural was racist you have no credibility on this thread or just about any other.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:58 am 
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Thai guy wrote:
The RW of England are in a lot of trouble if all they can come up with is memes of Corbyn with Hitler and Stalin and Trotsky and a mural on an East London wall which no longer exists.


Are they in a lot of trouble though? They should be, they're running the country into the ground, but without a credible opposition they seem to be happily motoring along.

Even if we put the antisemitism row aside, could you point to the achievements of a Corbyn led Labour party that make him look like a future PM?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:09 am 
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bimboman wrote:
Thai guy wrote:
The RW of England are in a lot of trouble if all they can come up with is memes of Corbyn with Hitler and Stalin and Trotsky and a mural on an East London wall which no longer exists.



Yeah, while you don't think the mural was racist you have no credibility on this thread or just about any other.
It's not up to you to decide what credibility I have on this thread or any other. I just think you cannot be racist against power. It's just not possible in the definition.

And to crash 669, this thread has long ago ceased to be about what Jeremy Corbyn can offer, it's solely about taking him down.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:13 am 
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Well what do you think his achievements are then?

I ask as a former labour member, who quit over Labour's stance on Article 50 and who would like a strong left wing party in this country. I just don't see what Corbyn's done that makes him electable and was hoping you could point out what I'm so clearly missing.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:14 am 
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Quote:
I just think you cannot be racist against power.



You know that statement alone is racist when referring to that mural ?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:21 am 
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Thai guy wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Thai guy wrote:
The RW of England are in a lot of trouble if all they can come up with is memes of Corbyn with Hitler and Stalin and Trotsky and a mural on an East London wall which no longer exists.



Yeah, while you don't think the mural was racist you have no credibility on this thread or just about any other.
It's not up to you to decide what credibility I have on this thread or any other. I just think you cannot be racist against power. It's just not possible in the definition.

And to crash 669, this thread has long ago ceased to be about what Jeremy Corbyn can offer, it's solely about taking him down.


Race and power are different categories. Race is a disputed, possibly non-existent (ostensibly) biological category. Power isn't.

However I'm not surprised that you subscribe to the idiotic definition of racism that encompasses access to institutional power.


Last edited by Santa on Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:33 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:21 am 
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Thai guy wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Thai guy wrote:
The RW of England are in a lot of trouble if all they can come up with is memes of Corbyn with Hitler and Stalin and Trotsky and a mural on an East London wall which no longer exists.



Yeah, while you don't think the mural was racist you have no credibility on this thread or just about any other.
It's not up to you to decide what credibility I have on this thread or any other. I just think you cannot be racist against power. It's just not possible in the definition.



As if by magic:

Nick Cohen wrote:
It cannot be repeated often enough that antisemitism is a racist theory of power.


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/mar/31/in-hungary-exploitation-of-mythical-enemy-is-poisoning-politics


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:28 am 
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Thai guy wrote:
Can anyone here quote an anti-Semitic statement from Jeremy Corbyn?

No answers to this? I'd be genuinely interested to know if he's said a single thing that's actually anti-Jew vs. anti-Israel.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:31 am 
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crash 669 wrote:
Thai guy wrote:
The RW of England are in a lot of trouble if all they can come up with is memes of Corbyn with Hitler and Stalin and Trotsky and a mural on an East London wall which no longer exists.


Are they in a lot of trouble though? They should be, they're running the country into the ground, but without a credible opposition they seem to be happily motoring along.

Even if we put the antisemitism row aside, could you point to the achievements of a Corbyn led Labour party that make him look like a future PM?


:lol: Ahh the one eyed lefties. Running the country in to the ground? They saved the economy from Labour's mess. Unemployment at it's lowest, growth strong, deficit coming down, debt as a percentage of gdp coming down but you think running in to the ground. You have to wait for loony left economic policies to be implemented to see running the country in to the ground!


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:32 am 
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We’re getting back to where we started with Corbyn.

A hard left winger so attached to his personal ideology that he’ll, ironically, ensure the continued success of the Conservative party


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:33 am 
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TheDocForgotHisLogon wrote:
Thai guy wrote:
Can anyone here quote an anti-Semitic statement from Jeremy Corbyn?

No answers to this? I'd be genuinely interested to know if he's said a single thing that's actually anti-Jew vs. anti-Israel.



His liking of the racist mural not enough for,you ?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:35 am 
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TheDocForgotHisLogon wrote:
Thai guy wrote:
Can anyone here quote an anti-Semitic statement from Jeremy Corbyn?

No answers to this? I'd be genuinely interested to know if he's said a single thing that's actually anti-Jew vs. anti-Israel.

I very much doubt that he would have said anything like that; he's a politician, after all.

However, he doesn't really have to if he associates with groups who espouse those views.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:35 am 
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bimboman wrote:
TheDocForgotHisLogon wrote:
Thai guy wrote:
Can anyone here quote an anti-Semitic statement from Jeremy Corbyn?

No answers to this? I'd be genuinely interested to know if he's said a single thing that's actually anti-Jew vs. anti-Israel.



His liking of the racist mural not enough for,you ?

Haven't seen it. Praytell.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:37 am 
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TheDocForgotHisLogon wrote:
bimboman wrote:
TheDocForgotHisLogon wrote:
Thai guy wrote:
Can anyone here quote an anti-Semitic statement from Jeremy Corbyn?

No answers to this? I'd be genuinely interested to know if he's said a single thing that's actually anti-Jew vs. anti-Israel.



His liking of the racist mural not enough for,you ?

Haven't seen it. Praytell.



Well you have plenty of news sources over the last week to find it on. It seems strange that you'll intercede on this thread but be that much out of touch.


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