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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:22 pm 
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Plato'sCave wrote:
Can we all agree what anti semimetism is for starters: I class it as:

Being anti-Jewish just because they’re Jewish
... and not ...
Saying anything negative about Israel and/or saying anything positive about Palestine.

If we can all agree on the definition then we can make some headway into diagnosing people as antisemetic or otherwise

Thanks


What about murals?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:23 pm 
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Not enough votes in tackling antisemitism.

Far more in appeasing those who dislike Jews/Israel.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:24 pm 
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Mick Mannock wrote:
Not enough votes in tackling antisemitism.

Far more in appeasing those who dislike Jews/Israel.


How many votes in those who like Jews but don’t like Israel?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:25 pm 
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27


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:26 pm 
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slick wrote:
Plato'sCave wrote:
Can we all agree what anti semimetism is for starters: I class it as:

Being anti-Jewish just because they’re Jewish
... and not ...
Saying anything negative about Israel and/or saying anything positive about Palestine.

If we can all agree on the definition then we can make some headway into diagnosing people as antisemetic or otherwise

Thanks


What about murals?


If it’s the one that depicts the Jewish men as a generic hooknosed phenotype then it’s antisemitism.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:27 pm 
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Mick Mannock wrote:
27


Nuance is lost on the braying crowd of both wings


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:27 pm 
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Plato'sCave wrote:
Can we all agree what anti semimetism is for starters: I class it as:

Being anti-Jewish just because they’re Jewish
... and not ...
Saying anything negative about Israel and/or saying anything positive about Palestine.

If we can all agree on the definition then we can make some headway into diagnosing people as antisemetic or otherwise

Thanks

anti-Semites use Oh but I'm just anti Zionist as a figleaf to disguise their hatred of what they no doubt think of as The Eternal Jew..


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:27 pm 
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Plato'sCave wrote:
slick wrote:
Plato'sCave wrote:
Can we all agree what anti semimetism is for starters: I class it as:

Being anti-Jewish just because they’re Jewish
... and not ...
Saying anything negative about Israel and/or saying anything positive about Palestine.

If we can all agree on the definition then we can make some headway into diagnosing people as antisemetic or otherwise

Thanks


What about murals?


If it’s the one that depicts the Jewish men as a generic hooknosed phenotype then it’s antisemitism.


Indeed. And I cannot believe Corbyn failed to notice the noses.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:28 pm 
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Rowdy wrote:
Plato'sCave wrote:
Can we all agree what anti semimetism is for starters: I class it as:

Being anti-Jewish just because they’re Jewish
... and not ...
Saying anything negative about Israel and/or saying anything positive about Palestine.

If we can all agree on the definition then we can make some headway into diagnosing people as antisemetic or otherwise

Thanks

anti-Semites use Oh but I'm just anti Zionist as a figleaf to disguise their hatred of what they no doubt think of as The Eternal Jew..


Some do yes. Agreed. Wankers.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:28 pm 
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Mick Mannock wrote:
Plato'sCave wrote:
slick wrote:
Plato'sCave wrote:
Can we all agree what anti semimetism is for starters: I class it as:

Being anti-Jewish just because they’re Jewish
... and not ...
Saying anything negative about Israel and/or saying anything positive about Palestine.

If we can all agree on the definition then we can make some headway into diagnosing people as antisemetic or otherwise

Thanks


What about murals?


If it’s the one that depicts the Jewish men as a generic hooknosed phenotype then it’s antisemitism.


Indeed. And I cannot believe Corbyn failed to notice the noses.


It was pretty much unnoticeable


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:29 pm 
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Rowdy wrote:
Plato'sCave wrote:
Can we all agree what anti semimetism is for starters: I class it as:

Being anti-Jewish just because they’re Jewish
... and not ...
Saying anything negative about Israel and/or saying anything positive about Palestine.

If we can all agree on the definition then we can make some headway into diagnosing people as antisemetic or otherwise

Thanks

anti-Semites use Oh but I'm just anti Zionist as a figleaf to disguise their hatred of what they no doubt think of as The Eternal Jew..


I have no doubt that you are right.

But I could be wrong.

But I do not think I am.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:30 pm 
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Plato'sCave wrote:
slick wrote:
Plato'sCave wrote:
Can we all agree what anti semimetism is for starters: I class it as:

Being anti-Jewish just because they’re Jewish
... and not ...
Saying anything negative about Israel and/or saying anything positive about Palestine.

If we can all agree on the definition then we can make some headway into diagnosing people as antisemetic or otherwise

Thanks


What about murals?


If it’s the one that depicts the Jewish men as a generic hooknosed phenotype then it’s antisemitism.


Would condemning the removal of this mural be anti-semitic?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:32 pm 
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OhNo wrote:
Plato'sCave wrote:
slick wrote:
Plato'sCave wrote:
Can we all agree what anti semimetism is for starters: I class it as:

Being anti-Jewish just because they’re Jewish
... and not ...
Saying anything negative about Israel and/or saying anything positive about Palestine.

If we can all agree on the definition then we can make some headway into diagnosing people as antisemetic or otherwise

Thanks


What about murals?


If it’s the one that depicts the Jewish men as a generic hooknosed phenotype then it’s antisemitism.


Would condemning the removal of this mural be anti-semitic?


I would say yes. The depiction is no different than the watermelon large eyed black man depiction or the Irish man depiction in the early 20th Century.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:35 pm 
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Plato'sCave wrote:
OhNo wrote:
Plato'sCave wrote:
slick wrote:
Plato'sCave wrote:
Can we all agree what anti semimetism is for starters: I class it as:

Being anti-Jewish just because they’re Jewish
... and not ...
Saying anything negative about Israel and/or saying anything positive about Palestine.

If we can all agree on the definition then we can make some headway into diagnosing people as antisemetic or otherwise

Thanks


What about murals?


If it’s the one that depicts the Jewish men as a generic hooknosed phenotype then it’s antisemitism.


Would condemning the removal of this mural be anti-semitic?


I would say yes. The depiction is no different than the watermelon large eyed black man depiction or the Irish man depiction in the early 20th Century.


I agree, I would be interested in why slick thinks it isn’t.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:35 pm 
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OhNo wrote:
Plato'sCave wrote:
slick wrote:
Plato'sCave wrote:
Can we all agree what anti semimetism is for starters: I class it as:

Being anti-Jewish just because they’re Jewish
... and not ...
Saying anything negative about Israel and/or saying anything positive about Palestine.

If we can all agree on the definition then we can make some headway into diagnosing people as antisemetic or otherwise

Thanks


What about murals?


If it’s the one that depicts the Jewish men as a generic hooknosed phenotype then it’s antisemitism.


Would condemning the removal of this mural be anti-semitic?


No. It should remain as a symbol of free speech so that people can openly debate the issue of rich old Jews becoming wealthier on the backs of the down-trodden working classes.

An accompanying mural depicting dozens of Muslim Pakistanis with their hands up a twelve-year-old girl's skirt should also be commissioned. For the sake of free-speech.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:36 pm 
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Quote:
I agree, I would be interested in why slick thinks it isn’t.


So would I!!

I think there may have been a misunderstanding somewhere.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:39 pm 
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This mural is undoubtedly anti Semitic in my opinion, but everyone needs to be aware that just because this is, it doesn’t automatically mean that every picture, opinion piece, quote etc that isnt supportive of Israel or even anti some Israeli actions is also anti Semitic, that position is as untenable as any other that misses all nuance for the purpose of political traction.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:39 pm 
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slick wrote:
Quote:
I agree, I would be interested in why slick thinks it isn’t.


So would I!!

I think there may have been a misunderstanding somewhere.


Definitely, I thought you were saying to Bimbo that Corbyn’s comments on its removal weren’t ant-Semitic. Sorry if I got it wrong.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:43 pm 
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antisemitic?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9lYVwNEf48


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:44 pm 
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OhNo wrote:
slick wrote:
Quote:
I agree, I would be interested in why slick thinks it isn’t.


So would I!!

I think there may have been a misunderstanding somewhere.


Definitely, I thought you were saying to Bimbo that Corbyn’s comments on its removal weren’t ant-Semitic. Sorry if I got it wrong.


No, I didn't say anything about that, I was just backing up another poster asking for the rabid Bimbo to quote an anti-semitic comment uttered by Corbyn.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:45 pm 
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Mick Mannock wrote:
OhNo wrote:
Plato'sCave wrote:
slick wrote:
Plato'sCave wrote:
Can we all agree what anti semimetism is for starters: I class it as:

Being anti-Jewish just because they’re Jewish
... and not ...
Saying anything negative about Israel and/or saying anything positive about Palestine.

If we can all agree on the definition then we can make some headway into diagnosing people as antisemetic or otherwise

Thanks


What about murals?


If it’s the one that depicts the Jewish men as a generic hooknosed phenotype then it’s antisemitism.


Would condemning the removal of this mural be anti-semitic?


No. It should remain as a symbol of free speech so that people can openly debate the issue of rich old Jews becoming wealthier on the backs of the down-trodden working classes.

An accompanying mural depicting dozens of Muslim Pakistanis with their hands up a twelve-year-old girl's skirt should also be commissioned. For the sake of free-speech.


The paradox is, apparently, that the mural would only be Islamophibic if the muralist said something Islamophibic in addition to painting the mural. So by not exercising their free speech they are rendering it not Islamophobic. So it's an expression of free speech that can't be expressed through speech lest that speech render it racist.

Such is the mind of Thai Guy.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:45 pm 
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The fact this is even a valid point of discussion is pretty mind-blowing when you think about it. Talk about alienating everyone except the most extreme far-left.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:53 pm 
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I do not think it surprising that Brick Lane was chosen for the mural. Plenty of supporters for that sort of thing there. It was clearly antisemitic. It portrayed Jewish stereotypes. It made no reference to Israel, just Jewish images.

The Mayor, Lutfur Rahaman, to his credit said it was unacceptable.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:55 pm 
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I have TG on ignore, although I do sometimes read his posts to see what lies he is spreading.

He is a dick.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:57 pm 
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slick wrote:
OhNo wrote:
slick wrote:
Quote:
I agree, I would be interested in why slick thinks it isn’t.


So would I!!

I think there may have been a misunderstanding somewhere.


Definitely, I thought you were saying to Bimbo that Corbyn’s comments on its removal weren’t ant-Semitic. Sorry if I got it wrong.


No, I didn't say anything about that, I was just backing up another poster asking for the rabid Bimbo to quote an anti-semitic comment uttered by Corbyn.


Ok, now I’m confused. Either what Corbyn said about this mural’s removal was either anti-semitic or not. Bimbo being right or wrong with another poster has nothing to do with it.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:06 pm 
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Plato'sCave wrote:
This mural is undoubtedly anti Semitic in my opinion, but everyone needs to be aware that just because this is, it doesn’t automatically mean that every picture, opinion piece, quote etc that isnt supportive of Israel or even anti some Israeli actions is also anti Semitic, that position is as untenable as any other that misses all nuance for the purpose of political traction.


Why are you even bringing Israel into this? The mural has nothing to do with Israel.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:09 pm 
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goeagles wrote:
Plato'sCave wrote:
This mural is undoubtedly anti Semitic in my opinion, but everyone needs to be aware that just because this is, it doesn’t automatically mean that every picture, opinion piece, quote etc that isnt supportive of Israel or even anti some Israeli actions is also anti Semitic, that position is as untenable as any other that misses all nuance for the purpose of political traction.


Why are you even bringing Israel into this? The mural has nothing to do with Israel.


Choice.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:43 pm 
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Good article about how anti-semitism isn't just a few bad apples who happen to be in the Labour party but actually a very real danger of the leftist-ideology Corbyn represents.

Quote:
What it shows is that, if Corbyn is as serious as he says he is about militant opposition to anti-semitism, his worldview as it is may not survive intact. Rather, it must be radically revised and rethought.


https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2018/03/combat-left-anti-semitism-corbynism-must-change-way-it-sees-world


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:47 pm 
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Quote:
No, I didn't say anything about that, I was just backing up another poster asking for the rabid Bimbo to quote an anti-semitic comment uttered by Corbyn.




Indeed you'd have to be "rabid" to think Corbyn has a problem with anti semitism.

Two years ago shameless chakrabati was employed to investigate allegation about the party under Corbyn having an issue.

Two years later even Jon Lansman suggests Jezza should attend "anti semetic " training courses, Jezza himself admits there's a problem and 80 of his own MP's publically protest on the issue on Parliament square.

But I'm rabid. ? :lol: , get a grip, your man has just been caught out with his revolting views and "friends" again , but nothing to see here is the response, a defence of checking if he's actually said anything "anti semetic" rather than see the actual problem.

Good on you guys. Blame "rabid" posters rather than look at the slightly more obvious problems.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:48 pm 
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Plato'sCave wrote:
goeagles wrote:
Plato'sCave wrote:
This mural is undoubtedly anti Semitic in my opinion, but everyone needs to be aware that just because this is, it doesn’t automatically mean that every picture, opinion piece, quote etc that isnt supportive of Israel or even anti some Israeli actions is also anti Semitic, that position is as untenable as any other that misses all nuance for the purpose of political traction.


Why are you even bringing Israel into this? The mural has nothing to do with Israel.


Choice.



Conflation as a defence of racism.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:53 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
Quote:
No, I didn't say anything about that, I was just backing up another poster asking for the rabid Bimbo to quote an anti-semitic comment uttered by Corbyn.




Indeed you'd have to be "rabid" to think Corbyn has a problem with anti semitism.

Two years ago shameless chakrabati was employed to investigate allegation about the party under Corbyn having an issue.

Two years later even Jon Lansman suggests Jezza should attend "anti semetic " training courses, Jezza himself admits there's a problem and 80 of his own MP's publically protest on the issue on Parliament square.

But I'm rabid. ? :lol: , get a grip, your man has just been caught out with his revolting views and "friends" again , but nothing to see here is the response, a defence of checking if he's actually said anything "anti semetic" rather than see the actual problem.

Good on you guys. Blame "rabid" posters rather than look at the slightly more obvious problems.


Imagine how embarrassing it would be if you kept accidentally hanging around with known paedophiles but were not yourself a paedophile or said paedophillic things.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:02 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
Quote:
No, I didn't say anything about that, I was just backing up another poster asking for the rabid Bimbo to quote an anti-semitic comment uttered by Corbyn.




Indeed you'd have to be "rabid" to think Corbyn has a problem with anti semitism.

Two years ago shameless chakrabati was employed to investigate allegation about the party under Corbyn having an issue.

Two years later even Jon Lansman suggests Jezza should attend "anti semetic " training courses, Jezza himself admits there's a problem and 80 of his own MP's publically protest on the issue on Parliament square.

But I'm rabid. ? :lol: , get a grip, your man has just been caught out with his revolting views and "friends" again , but nothing to see here is the response, a defence of checking if he's actually said anything "anti semetic" rather than see the actual problem.

Good on you guys. Blame "rabid" posters rather than look at the slightly more obvious problems.


Yup, you've certainly put that one to bed.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:07 pm 
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slick wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Quote:
No, I didn't say anything about that, I was just backing up another poster asking for the rabid Bimbo to quote an anti-semitic comment uttered by Corbyn.




Indeed you'd have to be "rabid" to think Corbyn has a problem with anti semitism.

Two years ago shameless chakrabati was employed to investigate allegation about the party under Corbyn having an issue.

Two years later even Jon Lansman suggests Jezza should attend "anti semetic " training courses, Jezza himself admits there's a problem and 80 of his own MP's publically protest on the issue on Parliament square.

But I'm rabid. ? :lol: , get a grip, your man has just been caught out with his revolting views and "friends" again , but nothing to see here is the response, a defence of checking if he's actually said anything "anti semetic" rather than see the actual problem.

Good on you guys. Blame "rabid" posters rather than look at the slightly more obvious problems.


Yup, you've certainly put that one to bed.



Along with your sympathies.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:35 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
Quote:
No, I didn't say anything about that, I was just backing up another poster asking for the rabid Bimbo to quote an anti-semitic comment uttered by Corbyn.




Indeed you'd have to be "rabid" to think Corbyn has a problem with anti semitism.

Two years ago shameless chakrabati was employed to investigate allegation about the party under Corbyn having an issue.

Two years later even Jon Lansman suggests Jezza should attend "anti semetic " training courses, Jezza himself admits there's a problem and 80 of his own MP's publically protest on the issue on Parliament square.

But I'm rabid. ? :lol: , get a grip, your man has just been caught out with his revolting views and "friends" again , but nothing to see here is the response, a defence of checking if he's actually said anything "anti semetic" rather than see the actual problem.

Good on you guys. Blame "rabid" posters rather than look at the slightly more obvious problems.

Not quite what Lansman suggested.
Quote:
Momentum founder Jon Lansman suggested that members of Labour’s ruling national executive committee, including Jeremy Cobryn, should attend a training course on “unconscious bias”. He said:
Unfortunately in the Labour party it seems, and maybe elsewhere, many people do not seem to be willing to confront this unconscious bias in themselves. We need a big programme of education and training to make people aware of that.
He said that “all people who participate in making decisions about the cases” should go on a course. He went on
People use words like Zionism without understanding how those words are seen by some people. Some people use the word Zionism to mean the politics of Benjamin Netanyahu but most Jews in Britain see Zionism as meaning support for a state of Israel living in peace and security, rather than a discrete ideology.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:36 pm 
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Plato'sCave wrote:
Can we all agree what anti semimetism is for starters: I class it as:

Being anti-Jewish just because they’re Jewish
... and not ...
Saying anything negative about Israel and/or saying anything positive about Palestine.

If we can all agree on the definition then we can make some headway into diagnosing people as antisemetic or otherwise

Thanks


I think people get too hung up on specific recurring themes in anti-semitism and start to see those themes as being the boundaries of anti-semitism when they are just examples. At its heart, anti-antisemitism is about treating Jews as somehow being different creatures - the "other". Consistently subjecting Jews to different treatments and standards than you do others, is just as much a form of antisemitism as the usual Jewish conspiracy theories and racial stereotypes.

Which is why a lot anti-Zionists are really antisemites.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:41 pm 
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SaintK wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Quote:
No, I didn't say anything about that, I was just backing up another poster asking for the rabid Bimbo to quote an anti-semitic comment uttered by Corbyn.




Indeed you'd have to be "rabid" to think Corbyn has a problem with anti semitism.

Two years ago shameless chakrabati was employed to investigate allegation about the party under Corbyn having an issue.

Two years later even Jon Lansman suggests Jezza should attend "anti semetic " training courses, Jezza himself admits there's a problem and 80 of his own MP's publically protest on the issue on Parliament square.

But I'm rabid. ? :lol: , get a grip, your man has just been caught out with his revolting views and "friends" again , but nothing to see here is the response, a defence of checking if he's actually said anything "anti semetic" rather than see the actual problem.

Good on you guys. Blame "rabid" posters rather than look at the slightly more obvious problems.

Not quite what Lansman suggested.
Quote:
Momentum founder Jon Lansman suggested that members of Labour’s ruling national executive committee, including Jeremy Cobryn, should attend a training course on “unconscious bias”. He said:
Unfortunately in the Labour party it seems, and maybe elsewhere, many people do not seem to be willing to confront this unconscious bias in themselves. We need a big programme of education and training to make people aware of that.
He said that “all people who participate in making decisions about the cases” should go on a course. He went on
People use words like Zionism without understanding how those words are seen by some people. Some people use the word Zionism to mean the politics of Benjamin Netanyahu but most Jews in Britain see Zionism as meaning support for a state of Israel living in peace and security, rather than a discrete ideology.



Remarkable isn't it. We're disgusting bigots but didn't know it until it was pointed out. Considering the decades Corbyn and co have hung out with their friends from Hamas I personally don't buy that they don't know what Zionism actually means.

What a bunch of c unts.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:54 pm 
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David Mitchell in the Guardian this weekend

Quote:
Don’t get me wrong: if there was an election tomorrow, I’d probably still vote for what most people reckon is the more antisemitic of the two main parties, in preference to the one most people reckon is the more racist in other ways. That feels like the public-spirited thing to do: to vote for the ones being racist to the fewest people. Though, of course, antisemites would be being racist to many more people if it weren’t for the success that that prejudice has enjoyed in recent history


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:07 pm 
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Insane_Homer wrote:
David Mitchell in the Guardian this weekend

Quote:
Don’t get me wrong: if there was an election tomorrow, I’d probably still vote for what most people reckon is the more antisemitic of the two main parties, in preference to the one most people reckon is the more racist in other ways. That feels like the public-spirited thing to do: to vote for the ones being racist to the fewest people. Though, of course, antisemites would be being racist to many more people if it weren’t for the success that that prejudice has enjoyed in recent history

:lol: sums it up nicely


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:21 pm 
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It feels like the Labour Party that once seemed fairly honourable and on the side of blue collar workers has been taken over by a few student union nutjobs. They have a few pet topics that they waffle on about but they are totally unsuitable to govern a large, complex country. Topics include:

- Palestine
- Nuclear disarmament (generally anti-armed forces of any description)
- Rights for minority groups (as long as they aren't Jewish in any way)
- Distributive economics (as long as they personally aren't out of pocket)
- Closing good schools (except the ones that they send their own kids to)
- Anti-free market and business


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:44 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 5932
So Sharmi's report? I haven't seen anything in the press about it either being a. A whitewash to get her a peerage or b. Totally incompetant given what's gone on over the last week.


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