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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:25 pm 
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Uncle Fester wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
Uncle Fester wrote:
When even the normal posters are frothing at the mouth, you know politics has become hopelessly polarised.


Who are you categorising as normal exactly...?

Well you know, pigdogs I've conversed with in a normal fashion on other subjects so it's a bit startling to see them coming out with "so and so is basically a terrorist".

I don't think he's 'basically a terrorist', I think he is a terrorist sympathiser based on his views and actions that are on the public record. No frothing on my part and I'm delighted that UKIP remain with just the solitary MP.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:26 pm 
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HurricaneWasp wrote:

You can laugh today, but in the long run, Labour are doomed with Corbyn. How can't you see it?

Image


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:42 pm 
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Rootheday wrote:
Any other leader of any party in history would be lauded for improving a majority even in a safe seat and this would be seen as a great endorsement of his influence on the electorate.

Imagine for a moment if the swing had gone the other way, Tories everywhere would say this was an indictment of the party leader.


The Labour majority in the General Election was 14,738

Its majority yesterday was 10,835

While that is a much bigger than was predicted, its still a reduced majority.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:44 pm 
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Lobby wrote:
Rootheday wrote:
Any other leader of any party in history would be lauded for improving a majority even in a safe seat and this would be seen as a great endorsement of his influence on the electorate.

Imagine for a moment if the swing had gone the other way, Tories everywhere would say this was an indictment of the party leader.


The Labour majority in the General Election was 14,738

Its majority yesterday was 10,835

While that is a much bigger than was predicted, its still a reduced majority.

Percentage.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:48 pm 
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Uncle Fester wrote:
JM2K6 wrote:
Uncle Fester wrote:
When even the normal posters are frothing at the mouth, you know politics has become hopelessly polarised.


Who are you categorising as normal exactly...?

Well you know, pigdogs I've conversed with in a normal fashion on other subjects so it's a bit startling to see them coming out with "so and so is basically a terrorist".

Normal fayre from the usual quarter.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:50 pm 
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Lobby wrote:
Rootheday wrote:
Any other leader of any party in history would be lauded for improving a majority even in a safe seat and this would be seen as a great endorsement of his influence on the electorate.

Imagine for a moment if the swing had gone the other way, Tories everywhere would say this was an indictment of the party leader.


The Labour majority in the General Election was 14,738

Its majority yesterday was 10,835

While that is a much bigger than was predicted, its still a reduced majority.

Quote:
Labour's share of the vote increased to 62.11% and there was a 2.27% swing from UKIP to Labour.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:01 pm 
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Anonymous. wrote:
Lobby wrote:
Rootheday wrote:
Any other leader of any party in history would be lauded for improving a majority even in a safe seat and this would be seen as a great endorsement of his influence on the electorate.

Imagine for a moment if the swing had gone the other way, Tories everywhere would say this was an indictment of the party leader.


The Labour majority in the General Election was 14,738

Its majority yesterday was 10,835

While that is a much bigger than was predicted, its still a reduced majority.

Quote:
Labour's share of the vote increased to 62.11% and there was a 2.27% swing from UKIP to Labour.



I know that, but rootoftheday specifically referenced the majority, not the share of the vote.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:10 pm 
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Rootheday wrote:
Any other leader of any party in history would be lauded for improving a majority even in a safe seat and this would be seen as a great endorsement of his influence on the electorate.

Imagine for a moment if the swing had gone the other way, Tories everywhere would say this was an indictment of the party leader.



It didnt improve

Already covered I see :thumbup:


Last edited by Bill on Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:11 pm 
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Lobby wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
Lobby wrote:
Rootheday wrote:
Any other leader of any party in history would be lauded for improving a majority even in a safe seat and this would be seen as a great endorsement of his influence on the electorate.

Imagine for a moment if the swing had gone the other way, Tories everywhere would say this was an indictment of the party leader.


The Labour majority in the General Election was 14,738

Its majority yesterday was 10,835

While that is a much bigger than was predicted, its still a reduced majority.

Quote:
Labour's share of the vote increased to 62.11% and there was a 2.27% swing from UKIP to Labour.



I know that, but rootoftheday specifically referenced the majority, not the share of the vote.

If you are going to be like that it could be argued he was referring to fact they had a majority of the vote last time and improved on that majority this time.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:12 pm 
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Bill wrote:
Rootheday wrote:
Any other leader of any party in history would be lauded for improving a majority even in a safe seat and this would be seen as a great endorsement of his influence on the electorate.

Imagine for a moment if the swing had gone the other way, Tories everywhere would say this was an indictment of the party leader.



It didnt improve

Is this what you tory boys are reduced to


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:14 pm 
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The Tory vote dropped 10% from the election. Because they could not be bothered. It's a cracking result tbf, jeez is a lock in for PM in 2020.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:23 pm 
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As much as the Tories may want Corbyn as labour leader for the next election. No one should underestimate what will happen with a disenfranchised and angry electorate, and what decision they will make. Especially when an "alternative" is an option.

Still there is a big difference between sitting on the back bench saying "your doing it wrong" and sitting on the front bench, or especially in Government, when your doing it yourself and decisions have consequences (even unintentional) ..


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:24 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
The Tory vote dropped 10% from the election. Because they could not be bothered. It's a cracking result tbf, jeez is a lock in for PM in 2020.

What is wrong with you tory boys. There is no need to feel so down guys.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:24 pm 
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msp. wrote:
As much as the Tories may want Corbyn as labour leader for the next election. No one should underestimate what will happen with a disenfranchised and angry electorate, and what decision they will make. Especially when an "alternative" is an option.

Still there is a big difference between sitting on the back bench saying "your doing it wrong" and sitting on the front bench, or especially in Government, when your doing it yourself and decisions have consequences (even unintentional) ..



Disenfranchised angry people are a vocal but small minority.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:25 pm 
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Anonymous. wrote:
bimboman wrote:
The Tory vote dropped 10% from the election. Because they could not be bothered. It's a cracking result tbf, jeez is a lock in for PM in 2020.

What is wrong with you tory boys. There is no need to feel so down guys.



:thumbup: , jeez is a lock in though isn't he?


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:25 pm 
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Anonymous. wrote:
Lobby wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
Lobby wrote:
Rootheday wrote:
Any other leader of any party in history would be lauded for improving a majority even in a safe seat and this would be seen as a great endorsement of his influence on the electorate.

Imagine for a moment if the swing had gone the other way, Tories everywhere would say this was an indictment of the party leader.


The Labour majority in the General Election was 14,738

Its majority yesterday was 10,835

While that is a much bigger than was predicted, its still a reduced majority.

Quote:
Labour's share of the vote increased to 62.11% and there was a 2.27% swing from UKIP to Labour.



I know that, but rootoftheday specifically referenced the majority, not the share of the vote.

If you are going to be like that it could be argued he was referring to fact they had a majority of the vote last time and improved on that majority this time.


So less people voted ?


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:30 pm 
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Bill wrote:
Quote:
The West must move to higher deficits otherwise it's finished


:roll:


It is comments like that that are my biggest beef with lefties - total financial illiteracy.
We don't like cuts. Boo.
Why are the cuts made ? Because UK Plc got into too much debt.
How do we fix this ? By spending more !

Nutters.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:30 pm 
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Anonymous. wrote:
Bill wrote:
Rootheday wrote:
Any other leader of any party in history would be lauded for improving a majority even in a safe seat and this would be seen as a great endorsement of his influence on the electorate.

Imagine for a moment if the swing had gone the other way, Tories everywhere would say this was an indictment of the party leader.



It didnt improve

Is this what you tory boys are reduced to


Reduced to running the country, yeah we're devastated :lol:

10 more years if Corbyn remains labour leader too :nod:


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:33 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
msp. wrote:
As much as the Tories may want Corbyn as labour leader for the next election. No one should underestimate what will happen with a disenfranchised and angry electorate, and what decision they will make. Especially when an "alternative" is an option.

Still there is a big difference between sitting on the back bench saying "your doing it wrong" and sitting on the front bench, or especially in Government, when your doing it yourself and decisions have consequences (even unintentional) ..


Disenfranchised angry people are a vocal but small minority.


They are not necessary vocal.. A lot of people feel disenfranchised, and it would not take a lot to make them angry.. Say another economic crash.A lot of people have not recovered since the 2008 crash. If the economy goes south, Corbyn could easily become more popular. (and watch the PLP swam around and support him if this happens).

,,


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:34 pm 
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Anonymous. wrote:
Bill wrote:
Rootheday wrote:
Any other leader of any party in history would be lauded for improving a majority even in a safe seat and this would be seen as a great endorsement of his influence on the electorate.

Imagine for a moment if the swing had gone the other way, Tories everywhere would say this was an indictment of the party leader.



It didnt improve

Is this what you tory boys are reduced to


You don't have to be a Tory to observe that the majority has reduced.

The new majority is a littler number than the old number which was a bigger number. I hope that makes you understand better.

A littler number


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:36 pm 
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Bill wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
Bill wrote:
Rootheday wrote:
Any other leader of any party in history would be lauded for improving a majority even in a safe seat and this would be seen as a great endorsement of his influence on the electorate.

Imagine for a moment if the swing had gone the other way, Tories everywhere would say this was an indictment of the party leader.



It didnt improve

Is this what you tory boys are reduced to


Reduced to running the country, yeah we're devastated :lol:

10 more years if Corbyn remains labour leader too :nod:


Do you run the country, Bill?


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:37 pm 
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^

Percentage for crying out loud.

Funny how Tories are always quick to turn in to pedants when it suits them.

Remember the percentage wins the seat and the combined number of seats forms the government.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:39 pm 
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Rootheday wrote:
^

Percentage for crying out loud.

Funny how Tories are always quick to turn in to pedants when it suits them.

Remember the percentage wins the seat and the combined number of seats forms the government.


You are a bit weird, aren't you Roo?


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:41 pm 
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Mick Mannock wrote:
Bill wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
Bill wrote:
Rootheday wrote:
Any other leader of any party in history would be lauded for improving a majority even in a safe seat and this would be seen as a great endorsement of his influence on the electorate.

Imagine for a moment if the swing had gone the other way, Tories everywhere would say this was an indictment of the party leader.



It didnt improve

Is this what you tory boys are reduced to


Reduced to running the country, yeah we're devastated :lol:

10 more years if Corbyn remains labour leader too :nod:


Do you run the country, Bill?


'Tory boys' run the country, as while speaking of a majority, they got one at the last election

Thank god :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:41 pm 
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Has anyone come up with a (rational) explanation for the actual result being so at odds with the predictions that have been circulating for the last week or so?
Labour in near panic with a very close call expected - to this.

I don't really go in for conspiracy theories, but this result is clearly a surprise to many people.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:49 pm 
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Yer Man wrote:
Has anyone come up with a (rational) explanation for the actual result being so at odds with the predictions that have been circulating for the last week or so?
Labour in near panic with a very close call expected - to this.

I don't really go in for conspiracy theories, but this result is clearly a surprise to many people.


Its a very safe labour seat, labour may have lost similar seats in Scotland, but this is Oldham, it also has a large ethnic population which as shown elsewhere in England makes it much more likely to vote labour, inner London for instance was one bright spot for labour in an otherwise disastrous election for them in May


Last edited by Bill on Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:50 pm 
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Yer Man wrote:
Has anyone come up with a (rational) explanation for the actual result being so at odds with the predictions that have been circulating for the last week or so?
Labour in near panic with a very close call expected - to this.

I don't really go in for conspiracy theories, but this result is clearly a surprise to many people.


By-Elections always seem difficult to judge, as a general rule the government does badly at bi-elections with the opposition doing well, I guess in this case there was an assumption that the disorder labour appeared to be in, during the last week would feed through to the election. Also UKIP are always very vocal before an election, and the majority of labour voters, just keeping quiet. However it was a very safe labour seat (which no one seemed to take account of)


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:54 pm 
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Yer Man wrote:
Has anyone come up with a (rational) explanation for the actual result being so at odds with the predictions that have been circulating for the last week or so?
Labour in near panic with a very close call expected - to this.

I don't really go in for conspiracy theories, but this result is clearly a surprise to many people.



The panic appears to have been based on negative responses to Corbyn from their polling of voters in the Constituency, and an assumption that voters who are not keen on Corbyn would then choose to vote for UKIP. This failed to take account of the fact that UKIP's operation was shambolic and under-funded (most of their resources are now being concentrated on the Brexit campaign) and not as attractive to working class northerners as was being assumed by some. The Labour candidate was also a very well-known local with a good local reputation.

In the event, white working class voters did not decamp to UKIP but stayed with Labour. If Labour had parachuted in a middle class Islington radical to be the candidate, they might not have done so well.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:14 pm 
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So the meltdown did not happen.
It's good to see a proper opposition have views that are opposite to that of the Incumbent Party. :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:16 pm 
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c69 wrote:
So the meltdown did not happen.
It's good to see a proper opposition have views that are opposite to that of the Incumbent Party. :thumbup:


Agreed


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:17 pm 
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c69 wrote:
So the meltdown did not happen.
It's good to see a proper opposition have views that are opposite to that of the Incumbent Party. :thumbup:



Yeah, you have to oppose everything, no grey areas, no middle ground.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:17 pm 
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well done labour, corbyn and whoever the newly elected mp for oldham is.

i like corby as he says what he believes, which is a rare thing in politics these days. his views strike me as naive, but he's a conviction polly and i think you have to respect that. he also happens to speak for the majority of his party membership and large swathes across the country, so it's good that their voice is being heard.

who knows, he may even be a catalyst for more integrity and passion (hilary benn's fantastic speech t'other day?) at westminster.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:20 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
c69 wrote:
So the meltdown did not happen.
It's good to see a proper opposition have views that are opposite to that of the Incumbent Party. :thumbup:



Yeah, you have to oppose everything, no grey areas, no middle ground.


Would you care to list all the labour points/policies you agree with?


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:22 pm 
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Bill wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
Bill wrote:
Rootheday wrote:
Any other leader of any party in history would be lauded for improving a majority even in a safe seat and this would be seen as a great endorsement of his influence on the electorate.

Imagine for a moment if the swing had gone the other way, Tories everywhere would say this was an indictment of the party leader.



It didnt improve

Is this what you tory boys are reduced to


Reduced to running the country, yeah we're devastated :lol:

10 more years if Corbyn remains labour leader too :nod:

This is what I don't get. You guys are winning so why so upset over one vote :?


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:26 pm 
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Tories are always a little scared that the socialists are going to seize power. Some of corbyns rhetoric obviously makes them jumpy.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:30 pm 
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Anonymous. wrote:
Bill wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
Bill wrote:
Rootheday wrote:
Any other leader of any party in history would be lauded for improving a majority even in a safe seat and this would be seen as a great endorsement of his influence on the electorate.

Imagine for a moment if the swing had gone the other way, Tories everywhere would say this was an indictment of the party leader.



It didnt improve

Is this what you tory boys are reduced to


Reduced to running the country, yeah we're devastated :lol:

10 more years if Corbyn remains labour leader too :nod:

This is what I don't get. You guys are winning so why so upset over one vote :?


Upset?

Last nights vote ensures that any behind the scenes campaign to oust Corbyn has been put back, thats good from my perspective, not bad

It would have been hilarious watching the ensuing labour bloodbath resulting from a UKIP win, but strategically, Corbyn being removed would be a hammer blow for the conservatives


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:35 pm 
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AND-y wrote:
Tories are always a little scared that the socialists are going to seize power. Some of corbyns rhetoric obviously makes them jumpy.



It's what his rhetoric leaves out, he says "tax the wealthy", hurray everyone goes,

"the wealthy are any home owner, anyone earning more than 40k per household per year" is what he means but doesn't say.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:39 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
AND-y wrote:
Tories are always a little scared that the socialists are going to seize power. Some of corbyns rhetoric obviously makes them jumpy.



It's what his rhetoric leaves out, he says "tax the wealthy", hurray everyone goes,

"the wealthy are any home owner, anyone earning more than 40k per household per year" is what he means but doesn't say.


Are there no grey areas, is there no middle ground, that you can find in this?


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:42 pm 
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As a homeowner who earns more than 40k I can't say I'm lying in bed at night frozen with fear at the thought of a bit more tax. Whereas if I was a low income earner with children I'd know I was going to be poorer under Call Me Dave.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:50 pm 
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merry! wrote:
well done labour, corbyn and whoever the newly elected mp for oldham is.

i like corby as he says what he believes, which is a rare thing in politics these days. his views strike me as naive, but he's a conviction polly and i think you have to respect that. he also happens to speak for the majority of his party membership and large swathes across the country, so it's good that their voice is being heard.

who knows, he may even be a catalyst for more integrity and passion (hilary benn's fantastic speech t'other day?) at westminster.


er, his big buddy is that ogre abbott, conviction when it suits, he's no different to any politician.


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