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Whether you can or can't actually vote IRL, In, or Out
In 61%  61%  [ 235 ]
Out 39%  39%  [ 148 ]
Total votes : 383
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:46 pm 
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paddyor wrote:
paneer wrote:
Phillip Hammond basically said to the EU to give the UK the deal they want of they are toast.

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:lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:48 pm 
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paddyor wrote:
paneer wrote:
Phillip Hammond basically said to the EU to give the UK the deal they want of they are toast.

Image

Two years. Bookmarked.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 9:49 pm 
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UK=Cake and eat it. No bad deal. out of EU. Winners.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:57 pm 
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paneer wrote:
UK=Cake and eat it. No bad deal. out of EU. Winners.

Yes and the EU is divided etc

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/disunited-europe-brexit-exposes-cracks-eu-relations/


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:58 pm 
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Ah Dozy. Don't ever change, you delusional idiot. :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:02 am 
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paneer wrote:
Phillip Hammond basically said to the EU to give the UK the deal they want of they are toast.

Image

I don't think he's said it in the way you think he has.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:55 am 
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Today is the start- the mother of all negotiations. Except that Mother has melted in the heat, strong and stable Tory leadership evaporated. Talk about a lame duck...sheesh!
It's left to Davis and the likes of Hammond, thankfully the least swivel-eyed of this pathetic bunch, to salvage the situation. :((

" It is 27 against one that has never been undertaken before, where the only veto we have is to blow up the negotiations. It is not like any negotiations that the British prime minster has taken before in the EU.”

The chancellor also sounded sceptical about the feasibility of walking away in an interview on Sunday but accused Brussels of “posturing and chest-beating” in its demands too.

“No deal would be a very, very bad outcome for Britain, but there is a possible worse outcome and that is a deal that is deliberately structured to suck the lifeblood out of our economy over a period of time,” Hammond told the Andrew Marr show.

He repeated his calls for a deal that will allow British goods to flow “seamlessly” into Europe and called for a lengthy transition deal before abandoning EU freedom of movement requirements.

“First we home-grow the skills we need and then we deal with immigration issues,” he said."

Don't hold your breath on that.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:59 am 
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Everyone said Old Europe was dying. Sure doesn’t look like it now.
Quote:
Inequality: Relatively speaking, Britain and the United States have higher income inequality than much of the rest of the developed world — certainly more than Germany and France. Although it’s difficult to prove that this has been growing — some measures show that inequality has actually decreased since 2008 — in both countries the perception of inequality is strong. This may be because each has tolerated the emergence of an oligarchy: High salaries for chief executives, the proliferation of luxury real estate, and ubiquitous billionaires in media and politics may well be affecting how people vote.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... d814b178fa


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:05 am 
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2 years. When the predicted economic doom for the UK doesn't happen then will the economically illiterate Irish and Lefties flounce?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:36 am 
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Silver wrote:
jorwar wrote:
William Keegan in the Observer on spreadsheet Phil, the chancellor who last week some thought was on the way out :

"It was Philip Hammond, Osborne’s successor, who, in challenging Theresa May’s obsession with a hard Brexit, maintained that the people who voted for Brexit did not vote to become poorer. But that is what the 51.9% of those who voted in effect did.

There were those who thought that the fantasy of a 150-seat majority would enable May to see off the hard Brexiters and pursue a more sensible policy. But all the evidence suggests that she meant what she said: that she put reductions in immigration above all else, and was prepared to leave the customs union and the single market in order to realise this dubious aim.

It is this preparedness to leave the single market that puzzles me most about the Brexiters. On the whole, these are people who worship the memory of Margaret Thatcher and thought she could do no wrong. My own view is that she did quite a lot of wrong, but that the single market was a great achievement, working very much in our economy’s interests. Yet these latter-day Thatcherites are prepared to give it all up in their mystical pursuit of “sovereignty” and “control”.

One of the results of the election is that May is now so weakened that she has no alternative but to hang on to a chancellor who knows that Brexit is self-damaging nonsense. Hammond is trying to make the best of a bad job: in remarks on Friday before an EU meeting, he rightly emphasised the need for the UK to concentrate on jobs, growth and the needs of business."


This article is typical of the ignorance about this topic. where leaving the EU political union is confused with leaving the single market (the article is complete and utter crap)

It just shows how the total confusion in the fake-news media is reflected by those who rely on it. As many politicians seem to

Greece for example is in the POLITICAL UNION and the SINGLE MARKET
Norway is NOT in the POLITICAL UNION but is in the SINGLE MARKET

The UK VOTED to leave the POLITICAL UNION only.



You are not really getting how the all thing works are you?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:41 am 
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"Why is it in our interest for research funding to be redirected towards continental universities? Why is it in our interests for new manufacturing investment to be redirected to locations within a customs union of which Britain is not a member? Why is it in our interests for regulation of European pharmaceuticals to be relocated out of Britain? Why is it in our interests for the City of London to be denied passporting rights for financial services across the continent? Why is it in our interests to make Britain less open to the best and brightest minds in the world? Why is it in our interests to undermine our global competitiveness in pursuit of short term party political advantage?"

"More broadly, why is it in our interests to stand apart from the European reaction to President Trump’s decision to withdraw the USA from the Paris Climate Change Treaty? Why is it in our interests to stand apart from arrangements for exchange of security information under the Schengen Treaty?"

"It is time to reverse the burden of truth. Instead of assuming it is better to stand apart, we should expect the government to show why it is not in our interests to deepen our relationship with continental neighbours with whom we have common economic and political interests as well as a shared commitment to liberal democratic values."

Questions, not from a leftie, but from a former Tory cabinet minister.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:57 am 
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Spain’s reforms point the way for southern Europe

Having tackled its problems earlier than Italy or Greece, Spain is now seeing results

Now Spain is heading for its third consecutive year of economic growth of just over 3%, the fastest of any large economy in the euro area (see chart 1). It is creating about 500,000 jobs a year. According to Luis de Guindos, the economy minister, last month the country’s GDP surpassed its pre-crisis peak.

http://www.economist.com/news/europe/21 ... rsc=dg%7Cd


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:19 am 
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Things are reaching new lows.

I actually saw a post on FB where the crux of the political argument appeared to be that May was a better politician than Abbott as the former had slightly worse diabetes and therefore coped better.

A year or so ago, Brand UK was fine.

In 12 months, us, the public, have self inflicted more brand damage than a chav in a Burberry shell suit to the UK.

We believed in our own hype, we believed that we'd be measured on past glory, not on future contribution.

We have civil war on the streets now, a Prime Minister who stands for nothing, has no beliefs and no integrity and a clueless opposition.

The weirdest thing of all is when you unpack the question who and what caused all this?

It's not difficult to work out the answer to both.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:48 am 
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Whats the likelihood of Theresa May being ousted?

http://www.globalresearch.ca/brexit-neg ... er/5595170


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:55 am 
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Rocketz wrote:
Whats the likelihood of Theresa May being ousted?

http://www.globalresearch.ca/brexit-neg ... er/5595170


There is zero chance of another election. There is a possibility that May will be replaced as PM though.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:58 am 
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theo wrote:
Rocketz wrote:
Whats the likelihood of Theresa May being ousted?

http://www.globalresearch.ca/brexit-neg ... er/5595170


There is zero chance of another election. There is a possibility that May will be replaced as PM though.

If the government can't pass confidence measures there pretty much has to be another election - Corbyn hasn't got the numbers to form a government.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:04 am 
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Mahoney wrote:
theo wrote:
Rocketz wrote:
Whats the likelihood of Theresa May being ousted?

http://www.globalresearch.ca/brexit-neg ... er/5595170


There is zero chance of another election. There is a possibility that May will be replaced as PM though.

If the government can't pass confidence measures there pretty much has to be another election - Corbyn hasn't got the numbers to form a government.


They'll get it through.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:05 am 
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You say that now but just wait till the DUP start saying No, No, No.

Things get fun then.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:19 am 
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If they do that they run the risk of Corbyn as PM and that will be whole world worse for them.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:46 am 
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nardol wrote:
You say that now but just wait till the DUP start saying No, No, No.

Things get fun then.

Imagine going back the the Unionist community in Ulster and explaining why they let Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell into Downing Street. Plus the DUP had their best Westminster election ever, it may be difficult to hold all 10 seats and I get the sense being the only NI party to sit at Westminster will play well for them over time.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:09 am 
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FYI

this is where the EU will post all their documentation in order to be 100% transparent

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/brexit-negotiations

Todays Agenda

Opening of the negotiations between the EU and the UK on the withdrawal of the UK from the
European Union by Michel Barnier, the European Commission's Chief Negotiator, and David
Davis, UK Secretary of State for Exiting the European Union
 11.00 : Opening session (Michel Barnier and Secretary of State David Davis) plus officials
 12.30 : Working lunch between Michel Barnier and Secretary of State David Davis
 14.00 – 16.30 : Working groups
 16.30 : Meeting of coordinators (Sabine Weyand, European Commission's Deputy Chief
Negotiator and Olly Robbins, Permanent Secretary, UK Department for Exiting the EU)
 17.30 : Closing session (Michel Barnier and Secretary of State David Davis)
 18:30 (approx): Joint press conference by Michel Barnier and Secretary of State David
Davis, BERL press room


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:15 am 
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croyals wrote:
nardol wrote:
You say that now but just wait till the DUP start saying No, No, No.

Things get fun then.

Imagine going back the the Unionist community in Ulster and explaining why they let Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell into Downing Street. Plus the DUP had their best Westminster election ever, it may be difficult to hold all 10 seats and I get the sense being the only NI party to sit at Westminster will play well for them over time.

Even with the DUP, and with SF not taking their seats, it's only a majority of 6. That's not many illnesses or deaths. Parliament gets really weird when it's as tight as this; Labour may refuse to operate the whip exchange system to force everyone to physically be there, which will mean some hard personal choices for some MPs.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:24 am 
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Mahoney wrote:
croyals wrote:
nardol wrote:
You say that now but just wait till the DUP start saying No, No, No.

Things get fun then.

Imagine going back the the Unionist community in Ulster and explaining why they let Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell into Downing Street. Plus the DUP had their best Westminster election ever, it may be difficult to hold all 10 seats and I get the sense being the only NI party to sit at Westminster will play well for them over time.

Even with the DUP, and with SF not taking their seats, it's only a majority of 6. That's not many illnesses or deaths. Parliament gets really weird when it's as tight as this; Labour may refuse to operate the whip exchange system to force everyone to physically be there, which will mean some hard personal choices for some MPs.

I know, but on confidence motions you can guarantee that they will all be dragged through the lobbies. They don't have to win many votes to survive as a government in a technical sense.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 12:27 pm 
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How did the DUP get away this
Quote:
The projected budget for the Renewable Heating Incentive scheme was £15million over 4 years - a scheme designed to promote the burning of wood pellets to heat businesses. The total cost by the time it was closed down is £1150million. Read that one again. £1150million. This is all for a boiler scheme to promote environmentally friendly methods of heating a business (by burning wood - how does that even make sense??). That £1.15billion pounds is not really a cost to the Northern Ireland government. It's a cost to the UK government. That's right ladies and gentlemen, you'll all be paying for this.
What basically happened was, the DUP were in charge of this scheme, and they discovered at some point that the costs of this scheme would be covered by Westminster. The scheme was getting no take-up whatsoever, and when it looked like the scheme was about to be wound down, the DUP realised the goldmine this were sitting on. So they forced Stormont to keep the scheme open for another few months, and then they rang up all their mates and told them to get an application in, because those idiots at Westminster just gave us a license to print money. Then there was a huge surge in applications. In 2 week period. For a scheme that had been open for years. Just before it was about to be closed.

So, happy days! The DUP had just bought off all their friends and voters for the next 20 years. But then someone in Westminster got handed the bill for this scheme at some point, and nearly choked on their tea. £1.15billion?! fudge off. The most we will pay is £600million. And then the DUP realised that the NI government has to pay the remaining £450 million ourselves, which is a lot of money for their shitty government. So they tried to sweep it under the rug. And they were nearly successful, until Stephen Nolan found out about it, and in his own quest to gain more notoriety, and hence money, spent literally months telling everyone who would listen.

Eventually, it couldn't be ignored anymore, and the DUP had to answer to it. They told lies. The tried to avoid responsibility for it. They tried to blame everyone else. But eventually, they sort of apologized, but did so in a way to avoid admitting liability. They were sorry there were to cost controls in the legislation for this scheme (they literally copy and pasted the legislation from the English version, it's the same word-for-word, except for the bit about cost controls which the English version did have - the DUP deleted it!).

Which has led the Stormont government to the collapse it is in today. Their opposition in the coalition government Sinn Fein, wanted an investigation, and wanted Arlene Foster to step aside while the investigation was ongoing, to maintain impartiality (Arlene Foster was the minister in charge of the department that was responsible for the scheme, at the time of it's inception). Just her, mind you, they didn't want anything else. They didn't even want her to resign, just to step aside, and when she was cleared, she could take up her post again. There is even precedent for this - the former DUP leader and first minister stepped aside for a few months while his wife was investigated (she gave her toy-boy a bogus grant so she could keep f**king him - I swear to god, I'm not making this up! She was never prosecuted, and escaped attention by claiming to be mentally unwell and going into a mental asylum for a few months!! You couldn't make this stuff up, no one would believe it!). But of course she refused, which left Sinn Fein with no choice but to withdraw from and collapse the Stormont government.

And there sits the situation now in Northern Ireland - she still refuses to step aside despite all of this - a devolved nation without a government, and likely to remain so.

There are several things that point to this being a scandal of epic proportions. A lot of the main recipients of this scheme are in DUP controlled areas, or have close family ties to members of the DUP. It was also discovered that some of the recipients were installing boilers in empty roomssource 1, source 2, and burning them all day - this scheme worked by giving you £1.60 for every £1 of fuel you burned, so it was in your best interest to burn as much as possible. There's also this!

Every way you look at this scheme, it looks massively corrupt, and if not so, then massively incompetent, but corruption seems a lot more likely, doesn't it? To copy the law exactly, but intentionally delete the cost control bit? And coincidentally have all the friends and family of the architects of this scheme being the beneficiaries?

Don't forget those figures - £1.15billion, for a country that has a population of 1.8 million people. Any of you struggling business owners out there in the UK, just remember that you're competing against Northern Ireland, whose businesses are subsidised by the government - so good luck getting those contracts when you can be easily undercut. A government that also wants to lower corporation tax to 12.5%, a lot lower than yours, giving us another edge. And a government department that invests internally in businesses here, that will be profiting from this scheme, and as a result will have more money to invest. A government that has exempt it's population from the worst of the benefit system changes. Good luck with your austerity over there in the rest of the UK, you're going to need it against us here in NI!

And now these people are sitting in Westminster, with actual, real leverage over the Tory government. I'd be afraid if I was you. The DUP don't give a fudge. They rule through fear over here in NI, and will always, always get their votes. That won't change within the lifetime of anyone reading this. So they can do whatever they want without fear of repercussion.
ps. Here's some more info about the sort of people they are.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:05 pm 
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croyals wrote:
nardol wrote:
You say that now but just wait till the DUP start saying No, No, No.

Things get fun then.

Imagine going back the the Unionist community in Ulster and explaining why they let Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell into Downing Street. Plus the DUP had their best Westminster election ever, it may be difficult to hold all 10 seats and I get the sense being the only NI party to sit at Westminster will play well for them over time.



It'll be impossible. Go back to the polls now and they'll lose one seat, wait until the boundaries change and the number of NI seats drops to 17 and they'll lose three.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:20 pm 
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ID2 wrote:
How did the DUP get away this
Quote:
The projected budget for the Renewable Heating Incentive scheme was £15million over 4 years - a scheme designed to promote the burning of wood pellets to heat businesses. The total cost by the time it was closed down is £1150million. Read that one again. £1150million. This is all for a boiler scheme to promote environmentally friendly methods of heating a business (by burning wood - how does that even make sense??). That £1.15billion pounds is not really a cost to the Northern Ireland government. It's a cost to the UK government. That's right ladies and gentlemen, you'll all be paying for this.
What basically happened was, the DUP were in charge of this scheme, and they discovered at some point that the costs of this scheme would be covered by Westminster. The scheme was getting no take-up whatsoever, and when it looked like the scheme was about to be wound down, the DUP realised the goldmine this were sitting on. So they forced Stormont to keep the scheme open for another few months, and then they rang up all their mates and told them to get an application in, because those idiots at Westminster just gave us a license to print money. Then there was a huge surge in applications. In 2 week period. For a scheme that had been open for years. Just before it was about to be closed.

So, happy days! The DUP had just bought off all their friends and voters for the next 20 years. But then someone in Westminster got handed the bill for this scheme at some point, and nearly choked on their tea. £1.15billion?! fudge off. The most we will pay is £600million. And then the DUP realised that the NI government has to pay the remaining £450 million ourselves, which is a lot of money for their shitty government. So they tried to sweep it under the rug. And they were nearly successful, until Stephen Nolan found out about it, and in his own quest to gain more notoriety, and hence money, spent literally months telling everyone who would listen.

Eventually, it couldn't be ignored anymore, and the DUP had to answer to it. They told lies. The tried to avoid responsibility for it. They tried to blame everyone else. But eventually, they sort of apologized, but did so in a way to avoid admitting liability. They were sorry there were to cost controls in the legislation for this scheme (they literally copy and pasted the legislation from the English version, it's the same word-for-word, except for the bit about cost controls which the English version did have - the DUP deleted it!).

Which has led the Stormont government to the collapse it is in today. Their opposition in the coalition government Sinn Fein, wanted an investigation, and wanted Arlene Foster to step aside while the investigation was ongoing, to maintain impartiality (Arlene Foster was the minister in charge of the department that was responsible for the scheme, at the time of it's inception). Just her, mind you, they didn't want anything else. They didn't even want her to resign, just to step aside, and when she was cleared, she could take up her post again. There is even precedent for this - the former DUP leader and first minister stepped aside for a few months while his wife was investigated (she gave her toy-boy a bogus grant so she could keep f**king him - I swear to god, I'm not making this up! She was never prosecuted, and escaped attention by claiming to be mentally unwell and going into a mental asylum for a few months!! You couldn't make this stuff up, no one would believe it!). But of course she refused, which left Sinn Fein with no choice but to withdraw from and collapse the Stormont government.

And there sits the situation now in Northern Ireland - she still refuses to step aside despite all of this - a devolved nation without a government, and likely to remain so.

There are several things that point to this being a scandal of epic proportions. A lot of the main recipients of this scheme are in DUP controlled areas, or have close family ties to members of the DUP. It was also discovered that some of the recipients were installing boilers in empty roomssource 1, source 2, and burning them all day - this scheme worked by giving you £1.60 for every £1 of fuel you burned, so it was in your best interest to burn as much as possible. There's also this!

Every way you look at this scheme, it looks massively corrupt, and if not so, then massively incompetent, but corruption seems a lot more likely, doesn't it? To copy the law exactly, but intentionally delete the cost control bit? And coincidentally have all the friends and family of the architects of this scheme being the beneficiaries?

Don't forget those figures - £1.15billion, for a country that has a population of 1.8 million people. Any of you struggling business owners out there in the UK, just remember that you're competing against Northern Ireland, whose businesses are subsidised by the government - so good luck getting those contracts when you can be easily undercut. A government that also wants to lower corporation tax to 12.5%, a lot lower than yours, giving us another edge. And a government department that invests internally in businesses here, that will be profiting from this scheme, and as a result will have more money to invest. A government that has exempt it's population from the worst of the benefit system changes. Good luck with your austerity over there in the rest of the UK, you're going to need it against us here in NI!

And now these people are sitting in Westminster, with actual, real leverage over the Tory government. I'd be afraid if I was you. The DUP don't give a fudge. They rule through fear over here in NI, and will always, always get their votes. That won't change within the lifetime of anyone reading this. So they can do whatever they want without fear of repercussion.
ps. Here's some more info about the sort of people they are.

DUP seem much more closely aligned to the Labour Party on public spending.
Who over here bloody well helped draft the scheme in such a way that there is any UK bail out for the overspend?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:53 pm 
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Hellraiser wrote:
croyals wrote:
nardol wrote:
You say that now but just wait till the DUP start saying No, No, No.

Things get fun then.

Imagine going back the the Unionist community in Ulster and explaining why they let Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell into Downing Street. Plus the DUP had their best Westminster election ever, it may be difficult to hold all 10 seats and I get the sense being the only NI party to sit at Westminster will play well for them over time.



It'll be impossible. Go back to the polls now and they'll lose one seat, wait until the boundaries change and the number of NI seats drops to 17 and they'll lose three.

Precisely. Which is why I think they will end up backing the government, at least on confidence votes, regardless.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:55 pm 
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shereblue wrote:
DUP seem much more closely aligned to the Labour Party on public spending.
Who over here bloody well helped draft the scheme in such a way that there is any UK bail out for the overspend?


TBF, the £660 million bailout from English taxpayers is probably a fraction of the total subsidy they receive.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:57 pm 
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Hellraiser wrote:
croyals wrote:
nardol wrote:
You say that now but just wait till the DUP start saying No, No, No.

Things get fun then.

Imagine going back the the Unionist community in Ulster and explaining why they let Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell into Downing Street. Plus the DUP had their best Westminster election ever, it may be difficult to hold all 10 seats and I get the sense being the only NI party to sit at Westminster will play well for them over time.



It'll be impossible. Go back to the polls now and they'll lose one seat, wait until the boundaries change and the number of NI seats drops to 17 and they'll lose three.

Do the boundary changes need to get through parliament? Because if it means the DUP losing seats that sounds unlikely to happen.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:10 pm 
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shereblue wrote:
ID2 wrote:
How did the DUP get away this
Quote:
The projected budget for the Renewable Heating Incentive scheme was £15million over 4 years - a scheme designed to promote the burning of wood pellets to heat businesses. The total cost by the time it was closed down is £1150million. Read that one again. £1150million. This is all for a boiler scheme to promote environmentally friendly methods of heating a business (by burning wood - how does that even make sense??). That £1.15billion pounds is not really a cost to the Northern Ireland government. It's a cost to the UK government. That's right ladies and gentlemen, you'll all be paying for this.
What basically happened was, the DUP were in charge of this scheme, and they discovered at some point that the costs of this scheme would be covered by Westminster. The scheme was getting no take-up whatsoever, and when it looked like the scheme was about to be wound down, the DUP realised the goldmine this were sitting on. So they forced Stormont to keep the scheme open for another few months, and then they rang up all their mates and told them to get an application in, because those idiots at Westminster just gave us a license to print money. Then there was a huge surge in applications. In 2 week period. For a scheme that had been open for years. Just before it was about to be closed.

So, happy days! The DUP had just bought off all their friends and voters for the next 20 years. But then someone in Westminster got handed the bill for this scheme at some point, and nearly choked on their tea. £1.15billion?! fudge off. The most we will pay is £600million. And then the DUP realised that the NI government has to pay the remaining £450 million ourselves, which is a lot of money for their shitty government. So they tried to sweep it under the rug. And they were nearly successful, until Stephen Nolan found out about it, and in his own quest to gain more notoriety, and hence money, spent literally months telling everyone who would listen.

Eventually, it couldn't be ignored anymore, and the DUP had to answer to it. They told lies. The tried to avoid responsibility for it. They tried to blame everyone else. But eventually, they sort of apologized, but did so in a way to avoid admitting liability. They were sorry there were to cost controls in the legislation for this scheme (they literally copy and pasted the legislation from the English version, it's the same word-for-word, except for the bit about cost controls which the English version did have - the DUP deleted it!).

Which has led the Stormont government to the collapse it is in today. Their opposition in the coalition government Sinn Fein, wanted an investigation, and wanted Arlene Foster to step aside while the investigation was ongoing, to maintain impartiality (Arlene Foster was the minister in charge of the department that was responsible for the scheme, at the time of it's inception). Just her, mind you, they didn't want anything else. They didn't even want her to resign, just to step aside, and when she was cleared, she could take up her post again. There is even precedent for this - the former DUP leader and first minister stepped aside for a few months while his wife was investigated (she gave her toy-boy a bogus grant so she could keep f**king him - I swear to god, I'm not making this up! She was never prosecuted, and escaped attention by claiming to be mentally unwell and going into a mental asylum for a few months!! You couldn't make this stuff up, no one would believe it!). But of course she refused, which left Sinn Fein with no choice but to withdraw from and collapse the Stormont government.

And there sits the situation now in Northern Ireland - she still refuses to step aside despite all of this - a devolved nation without a government, and likely to remain so.

There are several things that point to this being a scandal of epic proportions. A lot of the main recipients of this scheme are in DUP controlled areas, or have close family ties to members of the DUP. It was also discovered that some of the recipients were installing boilers in empty roomssource 1, source 2, and burning them all day - this scheme worked by giving you £1.60 for every £1 of fuel you burned, so it was in your best interest to burn as much as possible. There's also this!

Every way you look at this scheme, it looks massively corrupt, and if not so, then massively incompetent, but corruption seems a lot more likely, doesn't it? To copy the law exactly, but intentionally delete the cost control bit? And coincidentally have all the friends and family of the architects of this scheme being the beneficiaries?

Don't forget those figures - £1.15billion, for a country that has a population of 1.8 million people. Any of you struggling business owners out there in the UK, just remember that you're competing against Northern Ireland, whose businesses are subsidised by the government - so good luck getting those contracts when you can be easily undercut. A government that also wants to lower corporation tax to 12.5%, a lot lower than yours, giving us another edge. And a government department that invests internally in businesses here, that will be profiting from this scheme, and as a result will have more money to invest. A government that has exempt it's population from the worst of the benefit system changes. Good luck with your austerity over there in the rest of the UK, you're going to need it against us here in NI!

And now these people are sitting in Westminster, with actual, real leverage over the Tory government. I'd be afraid if I was you. The DUP don't give a fudge. They rule through fear over here in NI, and will always, always get their votes. That won't change within the lifetime of anyone reading this. So they can do whatever they want without fear of repercussion.
ps. Here's some more info about the sort of people they are.

DUP seem much more closely aligned to the Labour Party on public spending.
Who over here bloody well helped draft the scheme in such a way that there is any UK bail out for the overspend?

They are all english and scots by origin anyway - so youre only paying for your own


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:17 pm 
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croyals wrote:
nardol wrote:
You say that now but just wait till the DUP start saying No, No, No.

Things get fun then.

Imagine going back the the Unionist community in Ulster and explaining why they let Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell into Downing Street. Plus the DUP had their best Westminster election ever, it may be difficult to hold all 10 seats and I get the sense being the only NI party to sit at Westminster will play well for them over time.


until customs posts start appearing on the 'border' between NI and the rest of UK (i.e. airports and ferry terminals), as opposed to on the border between NI and RoI.

the UK govt want out of the customs union, but want a soft border with RoI ...... only one way to square that circle and the torys will cut the DUP loose in order to achieve it


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:33 pm 
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rfurlong wrote:
croyals wrote:
nardol wrote:
You say that now but just wait till the DUP start saying No, No, No.

Things get fun then.

Imagine going back the the Unionist community in Ulster and explaining why they let Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell into Downing Street. Plus the DUP had their best Westminster election ever, it may be difficult to hold all 10 seats and I get the sense being the only NI party to sit at Westminster will play well for them over time.


until customs posts start appearing on the 'border' between NI and the rest of UK (i.e. airports and ferry terminals), as opposed to on the border between NI and RoI.

the UK govt want out of the customs union, but want a soft border with RoI ...... only one way to square that circle and the torys will cut the DUP loose in order to achieve it

I can't predict the future anymore than you can. We shall see. I think the DUP are well aware of this and their support will be conditional on a soft border.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:35 pm 
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DUP say they want a soft border for PR reasons but they couldnt care less and probably even would like a hard border if they could sell it.

Sure the reason they supported Brexit was because the north and us were becoming slightly too integrated through EU structures for their liking.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:35 pm 
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Muppets

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:27 pm 
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Mahoney wrote:
Hellraiser wrote:
croyals wrote:
nardol wrote:
You say that now but just wait till the DUP start saying No, No, No.

Things get fun then.

Imagine going back the the Unionist community in Ulster and explaining why they let Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell into Downing Street. Plus the DUP had their best Westminster election ever, it may be difficult to hold all 10 seats and I get the sense being the only NI party to sit at Westminster will play well for them over time.



It'll be impossible. Go back to the polls now and they'll lose one seat, wait until the boundaries change and the number of NI seats drops to 17 and they'll lose three.

Do the boundary changes need to get through parliament? Because if it means the DUP losing seats that sounds unlikely to happen.


Yes, but it has to be reviewed in context of an overall reduction in the size of parliament, and the fact that the proposed boundaries will likely change significantly now that the consultation period is over. No-one knows what the final boundaries will be at all yet, so how it actually pans out in terms of theoretical gains and losses is completely unknown. The only certainty is that NI will have fewer sears post 2018 than they have now


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:21 pm 
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So our latest master plan is to acquiesce to every demand made by the EU, and the poor saps have fallen for it hook, line, and sinker


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:23 pm 
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The "row of the summer" didn't make it mid summers day. Excellent :thumbup:

EDIT: for ref

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1 day!


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:42 pm 
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Has it all been agreed then? That was quick. Good work all round. :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:52 pm 
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There was never any need for us to quibble on the staging of negotiations.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:57 pm 
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croyals wrote:
There was never any need for us to quibble on the staging of negotiations.


For all the bluster about what cracking negotiators they are, they have needlessly screwed themselves wth their "tough" talk.

Things that will benefit Britain will now be portrayed as a loss, and loons at the Daily Mail will stick the boot in.

George loves a dig at the PM but this Evening Standard editorial sums it up well. Time to just play it straight, in the national interest:

Quote:
Busting Brexit myths

Twelve months have passed since Britain voted to leave the EU, yet the negotiations are only starting today. As a result of our self-imposed deadline to leave by the spring of 2019, we now have less than 20 months to start and conclude complex talks that will define our economic future and relationship with our neighbours for decades to come. Most leading Brexiteers remain completely unrealistic about what is achievable and the strength of Britain’s negotiating hand. They tell us today to “raise our eyes to the horizon”, but in the process we may all walk off the cliff in front of us. One welcome exception to this Panglossian nonsense appears to be Brexit Secretary, David Davis. Exposed as he has been to the details, he knows that on everything from building customs facilities at Dover to securing essential landing rights for British-based airlines, we face an enormous task that risks overwhelming the capacity of the state. Were that to happen, the damage to the country would be immense, and terminal for the governing party.

False claims

Mr Davis prides himself on being able to think two steps ahead. So he should begin these talks by lowering expectations. He could start by exploding three transparently false claims. The first is that “no deal is better than a bad deal”. Britain isn’t a company making a deal with a supplier it never has to see again; it’s a country trying to disentangle itself from more than 40 years of law-making with neighbours who will still be there the day after we leave.

The Chancellor, Philip Hammond, clearly enjoying life after resurrection from political death, points out the obvious: no deal would be “very, very bad” for Britain. So let’s stop pretending we can walk away from the table.

The second false claim is that we could agree a full trade deal with the EU in time for when we leave in 2019. This remains the official position of the Government. It, too, is rubbish. No senior British official believes that is remotely possible. It is obvious we need a prolonged transition deal, and this paper has argued that the most obvious and least disruptive one is membership of the European Economic Area and customs union. Many Brexiteers now agree — so let’s calm the anxieties of business and settle it.

The third claim is that Britain could withdraw residency rights from the more than three million EU citizens living here in Britain. Given the damage that would do to our economy and public services, it was always a ridiculous position that only Theresa May herself believed plausible.

Now there is no majority in the Commons for that dismal and damaging threat, we assume that a rejuvenated Labour opposition will table a motion to guarantee EU citizens’ rights within weeks. Rather than suffer a humiliating defeat, the Government could get the Brexit talks off to a positive start by unilaterally offering residency rights to these valued members of our community. It is that wonderful thing: an act of self-interest that can be dressed up as a gesture of generosity. We are going to need more such imagination if today’s negotiations are going to work for Britain.


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