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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 6:50 pm
by bimboman
We could also list ;'north London (selective) comprehensive plus tutors/Oxford/ politician. At least at Eton they're saved some of the poison.

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 6:51 pm
by SamShark
HurricaneWasp wrote:
Sefton wrote:It's not the individual going to the Eton/Oxbridge/Research route into politics that is the issue, it is the dominance of this particular cadre within politics that has led to insularity a lack of experience and knowledge in Parliament.
I do agree that it's not great when most politicians come from very similar backgrounds. As you say, it leads to lack of experience and knowledge. At the same time, people shouldn't be judged individually based on their higher quality of education. (Pretty much what you said). I thought that SS was slightly harsh with his original question in that regard.
It's not meant to be harsh - name some names?

Of late we've had smug gits like Clegg and Milliband who haven't resonated with anyone vs people who do supposedly "energise" people, like Farage and Corbyn, who - to me at least - are just campaigners.

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 7:00 pm
by kingswood

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 7:00 pm
by SamShark
Dan Jarvis (Lab) and Sajid Javid (Con) seem relatively sane and had real jobs.

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 7:00 pm
by HurricaneWasp
SamShark wrote:
HurricaneWasp wrote:
Sefton wrote:It's not the individual going to the Eton/Oxbridge/Research route into politics that is the issue, it is the dominance of this particular cadre within politics that has led to insularity a lack of experience and knowledge in Parliament.
I do agree that it's not great when most politicians come from very similar backgrounds. As you say, it leads to lack of experience and knowledge. At the same time, people shouldn't be judged individually based on their higher quality of education. (Pretty much what you said). I thought that SS was slightly harsh with his original question in that regard.
It's not meant to be harsh - name some names?

Of late we've had smug gits like Clegg and Milliband who haven't resonated with anyone vs people who do supposedly "energise" people, like Farage and Corbyn, who - to me at least - are just campaigners.
I disagree. Whilst Corbyn is a complete loon, you can clearly see that he means what he says. Same with Farage, although admittedly I'm biased on that one. Furthermore, I think that the vast majority of politicians do actually believe in what they stand for. Why would you go into a political career without wanting to make a positive difference to your country?

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 7:03 pm
by The Man Without Fear
So, four months of Tory party leadership campaigning it is.

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 7:05 pm
by SamShark
HurricaneWasp wrote:
SamShark wrote:
HurricaneWasp wrote:
Sefton wrote:It's not the individual going to the Eton/Oxbridge/Research route into politics that is the issue, it is the dominance of this particular cadre within politics that has led to insularity a lack of experience and knowledge in Parliament.
I do agree that it's not great when most politicians come from very similar backgrounds. As you say, it leads to lack of experience and knowledge. At the same time, people shouldn't be judged individually based on their higher quality of education. (Pretty much what you said). I thought that SS was slightly harsh with his original question in that regard.
It's not meant to be harsh - name some names?

Of late we've had smug gits like Clegg and Milliband who haven't resonated with anyone vs people who do supposedly "energise" people, like Farage and Corbyn, who - to me at least - are just campaigners.
I disagree. Whilst Corbyn is a complete loon, you can clearly see that he means what he says. Same with Farage, although admittedly I'm biased on that one. Furthermore, I think that the vast majority of politicians do actually believe in what they stand for. Why would you go into a political career without wanting to make a positive difference to your country?
I dont doubt Corbyn and Farage mean what they say, but to me their views are incompatible with leadership - they can say what they want safe in the knowledge it will never come to pass.

And I dont disagree that most politicians are decent people, but all the ones that get promoted or high profile seem to be the spadbot type or the Farage. This is of course a generalisation, but it worries me that (perhaps the PM aside) nobody seems to have the cut through to the public to challenge the rent-a-gobs.

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 7:07 pm
by tc27
Boris cant be too prominent in the out campaign otherwise he poisons the well with too many Tories by going publically against the Government line.

Its a pity as Out need him front and centre over pub boors like Farage.

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 7:13 pm
by Dobbin
welcome onto the battlebus boris

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 7:14 pm
by Wendigo7
tc27 wrote:Boris cant be too prominent in the out campaign otherwise he poisons the well with too many Tories by going publically against the Government line.

Its a pity as Out need him front and centre over pub boors like Farage.
He was face saving and nothing more today.

Apparently he txt the PM 10 mins before. That's slightly disrespectful. He's saying one thing today but rest assure he will do another.

I do believe he probably believes partially what he says about sovereignty. I do also believe it's a power grab.

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 7:21 pm
by SamShark
Nick Clegg ✔ ‎@nick_clegg
This is what you get with one party politics: the country's future reduced to uni chums arguing with each other.

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 7:21 pm
by Dobbin
Nick Clegg
who?

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 7:36 pm
by croyals
So Boris has decided the only job he wants is Prime Minister. It'll be one hell of a campaign now.

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 7:40 pm
by Wendigo7
c69 wrote:
Wendigo7 wrote:
tc27 wrote:Boris cant be too prominent in the out campaign otherwise he poisons the well with too many Tories by going publically against the Government line.

Its a pity as Out need him front and centre over pub boors like Farage.
He was face saving and nothing more today.

Apparently he txt the PM 10 mins before. That's slightly disrespectful. He's saying one thing today but rest assure he will do another.

I do believe he probably believes partially what he says about sovereignty. I do also believe it's a power grab.
Why do you think Blair was a Socialist?
Seems I got the term wrong.

I referred to him as a Socialist because I view Labour as Socialists, leader see party. I look at labour and use the idea of Socialism and just spin everything constantly. No facts at any point, just an insistence this is right and you are all too stupid as an electorate to understand. The idea that they sell socialism as what they stand for but then do whatever they wish.

I do think he as a person a power grabbing cock though. You build a country with an idea of socialism and then construct the country in such a way where it is dependant on the EU and immigration solely. State you need to bring in more immigrants and then say it's a shortage of talent whilst getting a small percentage of qualified workers. That's a revolving circle where by in principle you must depend on Immigration all the time and you change the demographic of the populace. It also makes it very hard to ever have an argument against it because you've changed the economy to solely benefit from it and the facts will always show it from that point onwards. Social engineering for capitalist gains under the premise of Socialism (the common person etc).

Obviously completely, completely wrong, but that's how I perceived it.

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 8:01 pm
by iarmhiman
New Labour was a centre-right ideology. Make no doubt about that. It was when Ed Miliband came in did Labour start to turn towards centre left. Now Corbyn has dragged it back to a left leaning ideology. He's the new Michael Foot.

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 8:01 pm
by DragsterDriver
I'll probably do what Boris does.

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 8:03 pm
by iarmhiman
Sam is right. Labour are completely irrelevant in this referendum.

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 8:10 pm
by SamShark
iarmhiman wrote:Sam is right. Labour are completely irrelevant in this referendum.
Such a shame really, but hopefully they will come to the fore.

Hilary Benn was on telly earlier and the interviewer just kept throwing questions at him to try and expose a rift between him and Corbyn.

If the only big hitters (in media terms) are Cameron vs Farage/Boris then it's not a particularly rich debate.

Any time Labour spend banging on about rifts in the Conservative party is just totally counter productive if they genuinely care about making the case to remain.

Clegg is pretty discredited/sideline figure.

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 8:16 pm
by Carrots and Peas
SamShark wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:Sam is right. Labour are completely irrelevant in this referendum.
Such a shame really, but hopefully they will come to the fore.

Hilary Benn was on telly earlier and the interviewer just kept throwing questions at him to try and expose a rift between him and Corbyn.

If the only big hitters (in media terms) are Cameron vs Farage/Boris then it's not a particularly rich debate.

Any time Labour spend banging on about rifts in the Conservative party is just totally counter productive if they genuinely care about making the case to remain.

Clegg is pretty discredited/sideline figure.
Is Cameron eve a big hitter? He's pretty nothing with the media which is why he does well imo. Boris and Nigel are the real characters. But realistically the "rich debate" was going to be lies, more lies, immigration and hyperbole. Referendums have too much riding on them for a "rich debate" so it turns into big statements and abuse pretty quickly.

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 8:24 pm
by SamShark
Carrots and Peas wrote:
SamShark wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:Sam is right. Labour are completely irrelevant in this referendum.
Such a shame really, but hopefully they will come to the fore.

Hilary Benn was on telly earlier and the interviewer just kept throwing questions at him to try and expose a rift between him and Corbyn.

If the only big hitters (in media terms) are Cameron vs Farage/Boris then it's not a particularly rich debate.

Any time Labour spend banging on about rifts in the Conservative party is just totally counter productive if they genuinely care about making the case to remain.

Clegg is pretty discredited/sideline figure.
Is Cameron eve a big hitter? He's pretty nothing with the media which is why he does well imo. Boris and Nigel are the real characters. But realistically the "rich debate" was going to be lies, more lies, immigration and hyperbole. Referendums have too much riding on them for a "rich debate" so it turns into big statements and abuse pretty quickly.
I think the post of PM holds weight. In any case Cameron seems to be performing pretty well, for those open to being persuaded. Definite OUT types may well think he's talking bollocks.

One good thing about Boris - as far as I know he's not going to attempt to make this all about immigration. Although in a particularly shameless manner Farage tried to claim that it wasnt all about immigration earlier today.

On the subject of "characters" the populists are often seen as straight talkers, and indeed Salmond, Farage, Galloway, Corbyn etc do say what they mean. Boris is usually just slippery.

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 8:24 pm
by haunch
I'd be surprised if the next tory leader wasn't an outer, regardless of the result.
Boris to be the next pm. :shock:

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 8:33 pm
by SamShark
haunch wrote:I'd be surprised if the next tory leader wasn't an outer, regardless of the result.
Boris to be the next pm. :shock:
"Prime Minister, it's time to make the call - do we send ground troops into Syria?"

"Gadzooks. I challenged Putin to a game of wiff waff once, but this is different. I mean, imagine how Assad would feel, on coming down to do a murder at the old Grange, if he found that not only was Sherlock Holmes putting in the weekend there, but Hercule Poirot, as well."

"Prime Minister I dont understand, we need to let President Trump know immediately?"

“Dash it all, you do know I have a deadline to submit my column to the Telegraph?"

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 8:34 pm
by Wendigo7
Boris Johnson, Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump.

It's the holy alliance from hell. :shock:

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 8:38 pm
by croyals
c69 wrote:
Wendigo7 wrote:Boris Johnson, Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump.

It's the holy alliance from hell. :shock:
That would be an unholy alliance tbh
:lol: :lol:

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 8:49 pm
by TranceNRG
SamShark wrote:
HurricaneWasp wrote:
Sefton wrote:It's not the individual going to the Eton/Oxbridge/Research route into politics that is the issue, it is the dominance of this particular cadre within politics that has led to insularity a lack of experience and knowledge in Parliament.
I do agree that it's not great when most politicians come from very similar backgrounds. As you say, it leads to lack of experience and knowledge. At the same time, people shouldn't be judged individually based on their higher quality of education. (Pretty much what you said). I thought that SS was slightly harsh with his original question in that regard.
It's not meant to be harsh - name some names?

Of late we've had smug gits like Clegg and Milliband who haven't resonated with anyone vs people who do supposedly "energise" people, like Farage and Corbyn, who - to me at least - are just campaigners.
That's news to me. He's a shit public speaker, you turn off whenever he speaks.

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 9:03 pm
by Silver
This is the key
He said UK sovereignty - the power of Britain to govern itself - was being "very greatly eroded" by EU institutions
And it will continue if we vote to stay in. A stay vote will be seen as a vote to become part of the new country.

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 9:05 pm
by Silver
c69 wrote:Gosh he really is having a go

From the Beeb
Staying in the EU will make the UK more vulnerable to Paris-style terrorist attacks, Work and Pensions Secretary Iain Duncan Smith has told the BBC.
Mr Duncan Smith, who is campaigning for an EU exit, also questioned the effectiveness of curbs to migrants' benefits on immigration to the UK.
The senior minister's comments directly contradict David Cameron, who says the UK is "safer and stronger" in the EU.
The biggest danger to the UK is the EU itself if we stay in.

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 9:08 pm
by TranceNRG
lol give it a rest C69. He's a lightweight as a leader and a public speaker. He's Cameron's bitch in the parliament.
All those who flocked to see him didn't go because he was an amazing public speaker. they went because they thought he was the messiah. Same reason he got huge nuber of votes in the Labour leadership ballot. But we are already seen how irrelevant Labour have become and majority of Labour fans know this anyway.
I dislike Farage too but at least when he speaks, he gets your attention.

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 9:17 pm
by henry
c69 wrote:
TranceNRG wrote:lol give it a rest C69. He's a lightweight as a leader and a public speaker. He's Cameron's bitch in the parliament.
All those who flocked to see him didn't go because he was an amazing public speaker. they went because they thought he was the messiah. Same reason he got huge nuber of votes in the Labour leadership ballot. But we are already seen how irrelevant Labour have become and majority of Labour fans know this anyway.
I dislike Farage too but at least when he speaks, he gets your attention.
What ever you may feel about Corbyn, I personally dislike him, his public addresses garner vast crowds and his oration during these gathering have been held in high esteem. Your dismissal because of his politics shows your entrenched opinionated views.
Please don't address me directly ever again/AC mode. Btw I believe I was the first to call Labour irrelevant on this or the other thread.
How will you vote?
:lol:

Ffs.

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 9:18 pm
by dargotronV.1
That list a few pages back, of the loons backing Brexit, hardened my own resolve to vote no.

Having said that, Owen Jones article here explains in very convincing terms why a vote to leave would be a good idea after all.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... urosceptic
At first, only a few dipped their toes in the water; then others, hesitantly, followed their lead, all the time looking at each other for reassurance. As austerity-ravaged Greece was placed under what Yanis Varoufakis terms a “postmodern occupation”, its sovereignty overturned and compelled to implement more of the policies that have achieved nothing but economic ruin, Britain’s left is turning against the European Union, and fast.

“Everything good about the EU is in retreat; everything bad is on the rampage,” writes George Monbiot, explaining his about-turn. “All my life I’ve been pro-Europe,” says Caitlin Moran, “but seeing how Germany is treating Greece, I am finding it increasingly distasteful.” Nick Cohen believes the EU is being portrayed “with some truth, as a cruel, fanatical and stupid institution”. “How can the left support what is being done?” asks Suzanne Moore. “The European ‘Union’. Not in my name.” There are senior Labour figures in Westminster and Holyrood privately moving to an “out” position too.

The list goes on, and it is growing. The more leftwing opponents of the EU come out, the more momentum will gather pace and gain critical mass. For those of us on the left who have always been critical of the EU, it has felt like a lonely crusade. But left support for withdrawal – “Lexit”, if you like – is not new. If anything, this new wave of left Euroscepticism represents a reawakening. Much of the left campaigned against entering the European Economic Community when Margaret Thatcher and the like campaigned for membership.

It would threaten the ability of leftwing governments to implement policies, people like my parents thought, and would forbid the sort of industrial activism needed to protect domestic industries. But then Thatcherism happened, and an increasingly battered and demoralised left began to believe that the only hope of progressive legislation was via Brussels. The misery of the left was, in the 1980s, matched by the triumphalism of the free marketeers, who had transformed Britain beyond many of their wildest ambitions, and began to balk at the restraints put on their dreams by the European project.

The left’s pessimism about the possibility of implementing social reform at home without the help of the EU fused with a progressive vision of internationalism and unity, one that had emerged from the rubble of fascism and genocidal war. It is perhaps this feelgood halo that has been extinguished by a country the EU has driven into an economic collapse unseen since America’s great depression. It was German and French banks who recklessly lent to Greece that have benefited from bailouts, not the Greek economy. The destruction of Greece’s national sovereignty was achieved by economic strangulation, and treatment dealt out to Alexis Tsipras likened to “extensive mental waterboarding”. Slovakia’s deputy prime minister, Peter Kažimír, may have deleted his tweet calling this modern-day Versailles “the results of their ‘Greek Spring’”, but he is right: this was all about crushing a rebellion.

Ugly indeed. As the former European commission adviser Philippe Legrain puts it, “Germany is proving to be a calamitous hegemon,” overruling even France’s objections.

The euro suits Germany, of course, as a weak euro is good for its exports and prevents poorer EU countries getting a competitive edge. But look at how the EU has operated. It has driven elected governments – however unsavoury, like Silvio Berlusconi’s – from office. Ireland and Portugal were also blackmailed. The 2011 treaty effectively banned Keynesian economics in the eurozone.

But even outside the eurozone, our democracy is threatened. The Transatlantic Trade Investment Partnership (TTIP), typically negotiated by the EU in secret with corporate interests, threatens a race to the-bottom in environmental and other standards. Even more ominously, it would give large corporations the ability to sue elected governments to try to stop them introducing policies that supposedly hit their profit margins, whatever their democratic mandate. It would clear the way to not only expand the privatisation of our NHS, but make it irreversible too. Royal Mail may have been privatised by the Tories, but it was the EU that began the process by enforcing the liberalisation of the natural monopoly of postal services. Want to nationalise the railways? That means you have to not only overcome European commission rail directive 91/440/EEC, but potentially the proposed Fourth Railway Package too.

Other treaties and directives enforce free market policies based on privatisation and marketisation of our public services and utilities. David Cameron is now proposing a renegotiation that will strip away many of the remaining “good bits” of the EU, particularly opting out of employment protection rules. Yet he depends on the left to campaign for and support his new package, which will be to stay in an increasingly pro-corporate EU shorn of pro-worker trappings. Can we honestly endorse that?

Let’s just be honest about our fears. We fear that we will inadvertently line up with the xenophobes and the immigrant-bashing nationalists, and a “no” result will be seen as their vindication, unleashing a carnival of Ukippery. Hostility to the EU is seen as the preserve of the hard right, and not the sort of thing progressives should entertain. And that is why – if indeed much of the left decides on Lexit – it must run its own separate campaign and try and win ownership of the issue.

Such a campaign would focus on building a new Britain, one of workers’ rights, a genuine living wage, public ownership, industrial activism and tax justice. Such a populist campaign could help the left reconnect with working-class communities it lost touch with long ago. My fear otherwise is a repetition of the Scottish referendum: but this time, instead of the progressive SNP as the beneficiaries, with Ukip mopping up in working-class communities as big businesses issue chilling threats about the risks of voting the wrong way. Without a prominent Left Out campaign, Ukip could displace Labour right across northern England. That would be the real vindication of Ukippery.

Lexit may be seen as a betrayal of solidarity with the left in the EU: Syriza and Podemos in Spain are trying to change the institution, after all, not leave it. Syriza’s experience illustrates just how forlorn that cause is. But in any case, the threat of Brexit would help them. Germany has little incentive to change tack: it benefits enormously from the current arrangements. If its behaviour is seen to be causing the break-up of the EU, it will strengthen the hand of those opposing the status quo. The case for Lexit grows ever stronger, and – at the very least – more of us need to start dipping our toes in the water.

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 9:23 pm
by TranceNRG
henry wrote:
c69 wrote:
TranceNRG wrote:lol give it a rest C69. He's a lightweight as a leader and a public speaker. He's Cameron's bitch in the parliament.
All those who flocked to see him didn't go because he was an amazing public speaker. they went because they thought he was the messiah. Same reason he got huge nuber of votes in the Labour leadership ballot. But we are already seen how irrelevant Labour have become and majority of Labour fans know this anyway.
I dislike Farage too but at least when he speaks, he gets your attention.
What ever you may feel about Corbyn, I personally dislike him, his public addresses garner vast crowds and his oration during these gathering have been held in high esteem. Your dismissal because of his politics shows your entrenched opinionated views.
Please don't address me directly ever again/AC mode. Btw I believe I was the first to call Labour irrelevant on this or the other thread.
How will you vote?
:lol:

Ffs.
Comrade Corbyn a great orator... :lol:
You literally fall asleep when he speaks. Even Milliband was better.

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 9:24 pm
by SamShark
I dont really rate Corbyn as a public speaker but his messages are certainly attracting people. During the general election campaign a few people down south said "Why can't we vote SNP?" as they were the only anti austerity party (well, perhaps aside from the Greens)

Everyone else was just discussing how much to cut and whether their cuts were a bit nicer than the Tories.

Corbyn's overall package is about as realistic as Farage's but people are certainly into the "I'm not like those normal politicians" argument.

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 9:25 pm
by MrDominator
According to the FT, it's the Welsh wot might win it for Brexit.

Wales is apparently full of Kippers and - bizarrely - even more Little Englander than the English.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2aa5a1fa-d64e-1 ... 28e54.html

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 9:26 pm
by TranceNRG
c69 wrote:Trance how will you vote?
Not sure yet. I'm on the fence. I don't like EU and the way it's heading but I'm worried leaving EU might be too risky.

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 9:27 pm
by TranceNRG
MrDominator wrote:According to the FT, it's the Welsh wot might win it for Brexit.

Wales is apparently full of Kippers and - bizarrely - even more Little Englander than the English.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2aa5a1fa-d64e-1 ... 28e54.html
I thought Wales was full of lefties/socialists?

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 9:30 pm
by MrDominator
SamShark wrote:I dont really rate Corbyn as a public speaker but his messages are certainly attracting people. During the general election campaign a few people down south said "Why can't we vote SNP?" as they were the only anti austerity party (well, perhaps aside from the Greens)
Yeah, a few people said that - but then many more people promptly voted for the Tories because the thought of the SNP in power scared them shitless. Corbyn is doing what extremists of either stripe always do - firing up the base and alienating everyone in the centre, i.e. the people who actually matter.

At some point the Left will learn that there are these little things called general elections that offer an infinitely better guide to public opinion than any number of wacky theories about realignment.

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 9:31 pm
by SamShark
TranceNRG wrote:
MrDominator wrote:According to the FT, it's the Welsh wot might win it for Brexit.

Wales is apparently full of Kippers and - bizarrely - even more Little Englander than the English.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2aa5a1fa-d64e-1 ... 28e54.html
I thought Wales was full of lefties/socialists?
Not really - if you add up Labour and PC votes and compare with Cons and UKIP, it's about the same.

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 9:32 pm
by MrDominator
TranceNRG wrote:
MrDominator wrote:According to the FT, it's the Welsh wot might win it for Brexit.

Wales is apparently full of Kippers and - bizarrely - even more Little Englander than the English.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2aa5a1fa-d64e-1 ... 28e54.html
I thought Wales was full of lefties/socialists?
No, just Welsh PR.

The real Wales is like Essex, but with more fake tan.

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 9:32 pm
by Wendigo7
c69 wrote:
SamShark wrote:I dont really rate Corbyn as a public speaker but his messages are certainly attracting people. During the general election campaign a few people down south said "Why can't we vote SNP?" as they were the only anti austerity party (well, perhaps aside from the Greens)

Everyone else was just discussing how much to cut and whether their cuts were a bit nicer than the Tories.

Corbyn's overall package is about as realistic as Farage's but people are certainly into the "I'm not like those normal politicians" argument.
What overall package is that ?
Btw I really have no idea what he actually stands for however because of his seemingly socialist and purported views (wendigo take note) he is dismissed by many.
What specifically do you find unrealistic? Genuine question, as most on here dismiss him because he looks funny has a beard and is a bit weird.
:lol: :blush:

He's also very quiet which isn't the most useful attribute when comparing the likes of Farage and Cameron who speak well and are crisp in their tone.

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 9:32 pm
by iarmhiman
Who said Corbyn was a good speaker? :roll: