I'm not sure anyone would see the "deal" as hugely significant. Some will see it as "something" others as "nothing".

As with the interest in which Minister is going which way it's all politics, posturing, stage management.

I dont know how influential it is - basically we'll be hearing from politicians (biased), the media (mostly biased) and business (biased but in a more transparent way as their business interest is self interest)

Any pro eu types going to leave in protest if we get out?

As a general rule of thumb I think the exact opposite to the Daily Mail and the Sun tell me to think so I'll be voting to stay in.

The FT and the Economist are full of clever chaps and they want to stay, so I'll follow them. I can't be doing with uncertainty around my job (not that I work in anything related to Europe tbf) or my investments (although they are't worth much nowadays anyway).

David's renegotiation was always destined to be a show. He couldn't fundamentally alter the European Constitution with one quick pop across the channel so I don't care what deal he got.

Not strange in the slightest. Despite what the Tories/UKIP/Daily Mail would have you believe, the EU remains a much looser arrangement than the UK. Nothing remotely inconsistent in being happy to be a part of that, but not happy with Scotland's current situation within the UK.

What is inconsistent is saying that you object to the UK being subject to laws passed in Brussels, whilst being perfectly OK with Scotland being subject to laws passed in London. Particularly as the EU, as mentioned above, is a far looser Union than the UK.

I've had a think about what I said, and it's full of holes, but no point in deleting it. Cameron for example is anti-independence and pro-EU. Galloway is anti-independence and anti-EU. (Mind you he's serial liar). (Edit - I'm not saying Cameron isn't)

But you're wrong about your second point. Most of Scotland is pro-EU, but about 50% are also pro-independence. They like Europe, they like the EU which acts as a brake on Tory policies from Westminster. First prize for those people would be Scotland in the EU, second prize is UK in the EU.

Let months of lies, propaganda, speculation and tedious TV and radio interviews commence!

23rd of june....spring will never have felt so long

It's easy for me, WWSD.

That's about right. A Tory government entirely unfettered by more moderate EU laws is too horrible to contemplate.

Looking forward to this. Whether the UK stay in or out, it's going to be great television. Should be good trolling on here as well either way. Expect Cammy, Bill, Terryfinch and Sewa to all shine during this campaign on PR.

You can just follow your avatar

45% were in favour in a nationwide poll done in September 2014.

Scotland wanted to stay in the EU if they got independence so it makes sense they want to stay in the EU being part of the UK.

I hope the UK stays tbf, I live in London these days but can't be doing with another Scottish referendum.

I'm out. I don't want to be part of a political organisation with such a clear deficit of democracy. I'd much rather Britain leave and set up a comprehensive trade union (non political!) with the commonwealth who actually share the same ideals of democracy and aspiration.

Who is S?

That's fair enough and as it should be. The last sentence is completely tacked on though.


It will be interesting how this is applied. Assuming the € survives, surely the EZ countries have the right to dictate how it's used and to some extent it's movement. E.g capital controls. Tbh I don't think there was ever much of a threat to the city of London that Special Britain couldn't face down with the support of other countries (as long as it was in the EU), but perception is all.

The first seems to be a reduction for qualified majority voting we'll have to see how this works out. Presumably vetos still aply on matters like tax anyway.

The second will be a little redundant if(as I hope) TTIP comes through as it will cut away a lot of regulation anyway. If it falls through then it's meaningless.

Have you seen the Commonwealth lately?

(Or have I been wooshed?)

Does that not depend on the price of cheese?

Interesting, how has the eu fettered the tories? Should be more ammo for the leave campaign.

Environmental regulations, human rights and workers rights are three examples that spring to mind instantly when one thinks, "What will be screwed if we leave the EU?"

British today are you?

So it's a way of getting stuff into law that you don't think the public will vote for? Seems like we could do all this outside the eu.

All good reasons for capitalists to want an exit. Do they?

Human rights wouldn't change. The EU isn't a member of the European Convention of Human Rights because the EU doesn't allow a "fair trial" for antitrust offences so I don't think it would have a huge impact. The British Bill of Rights is going to be exactly the same as the ECHR and Gove knows it but having "British" over "European" in the title will pull the wool over people's eyes.

Can't disagree on workers rights and environment though.

I'm heading to Dublin if this all goes tits up. Though I'll still be an EU citizen of course.

Places like Canada, Australia and NZ aren't f**ked. When you add in one of the fastest growing large economies in the world (god know how based on what I've read regarding their tax laws) and you have a good basis for trade.

The USA would be a handy partner too when it comes to trade.

I live in Britain and have recently obtained dual nationality. I think its fair for me to voice an opinion regarding the future of the country where I live, work, and pay taxes in.

That depends. How brown are you?

The more I watch BBC News 24 and its coverage of the referendum this morning, the more I believe it's going to be an out vote win. I don't believe Cameron's spin is going to work.

A handy partner indeed. So, did you know the EU and USA are forming the TTIP which is the biggest ever trade deal in the history of the World? And they already trade with us and they want us to stay in the EU so you've completely undone your argument there. Better luck next time.

Silver, our GMO, health, climate, science, finance and EU guru.

The anglophone trade bloc is fantasy stuff. The only thing you and those countries had in common with each other back in the day was you controlled them. It's very much a case of grass is always greener. Why do people think a trade bloc with such different outlooks in and trade interests like that wouldn't be just as unwieldy as the EU.

What are the main reasons people want to leave? What did Cameron need to 'win' to get people to stay in?

They will just ramp up the scare stories if this looks likely. Or threats

France and other European states who are vehemently anti progress will delay and water that deal down till its worthless. They have form for f**king everyone over just so they can fudge themselves over, and they've already started to do it here.

To regain our independence / sovereignty.

If we loss it to an undemocratic EU it will be almost impossible to get it back. even joining the Euro is as good as too late. As Greece recently found out

Put up a poll Sam

Because the EU ceased to be a trade bloc aeons ago. Is a political union with the explicit aim of removing national autonomy and democracy. Of course its unwieldy because everyone wants to make sure that the eventual super state looks like their current state when their current states are massively out of sync.

How about we will be screwed if we stay in. The PM has much reduced power now. He or she will have almost no real power in 10 yrs if we vote to stay in

To much fog to know for sure what would be best financially. However I do not want to be a European . I want to be British and will vote to leave

Sounds alright to me!