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Whether you can or can't actually vote IRL, In, or Out
In 60%  60%  [ 243 ]
Out 40%  40%  [ 161 ]
Total votes : 404
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:28 pm 
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The DUP may be a bunch of bigoted nutters but they are also tightfisted wee frees who have spent the last 10 years haggling over everything with Sinn Fein.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if the DUP wiped the floor with the conservative negotiating team to extract every last penny and concession from them.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:46 pm 
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Chuckles1188 wrote:
paddyor wrote:
Image

Lillico from March. Fair play!


One good thing about the times in which we live is that we are getting a very rapid turnaround on "are this person's opinions and utterances worth taking the slightest bit seriously?"

Lillico goes with Seneca on the "talks shit, ignore" list

He is entertaining though.

Quote:
Andrew Lilico‏ @andrew_lilico

Cld May hv bn stringing the DUP along, pretending to be sorting a deal with them so as to minimise the risk they'd talk to anyone else?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:48 pm 
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Who else would they be talking to? Jesus?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:10 am 
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paddyor wrote:
No they didn't. They produced a schedule for the talks and Davis responded with bluster about the row of the summer. See the snippet from Lilico above. Note the lack of an alternative that they were prepared to publish to the EUs position. Anyway, it's for the best.


Yes they did.

Last November:
Quote:
Under the EU's plan, a "final deal" or "association agreement" for any long-term trade relationship - the third tier - would only be discussed after these first two stages have been agreed.

Then they shifted their position from agreement to "sufficient progress" in discussions which is obviously provides more leeway than closed agreement.

As to what Davis said, what part of it doesn't stand? Like he said yesterday, there will be parallel discussions on trade:
Quote:
An agreement to talk about money and Northern Ireland is definitely not the same as agreeing to sign off those dossiers before opening talks on the future relationship.

If the EU are inflexible over their interpretation of "sufficient progress", we'll see the row he was talking about.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:21 am 
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Rugby2023 wrote:
paddyor wrote:
No they didn't. They produced a schedule for the talks and Davis responded with bluster about the row of the summer. See the snippet from Lilico above. Note the lack of an alternative that they were prepared to publish to the EUs position. Anyway, it's for the best.


Yes they did.

Last November:
Quote:
Under the EU's plan, a "final deal" or "association agreement" for any long-term trade relationship - the third tier - would only be discussed after these first two stages have been agreed.

Then they shifted their position from agreement to "sufficient progress" in discussions which is obviously provides more leeway than a closed agreement.

As to what Davis said, what part of it doesn't stand? Like he said yesterday, there will be parallel discussions on trade:
Quote:
An agreement to talk about money and Northern Ireland is definitely not the same as agreeing to sign off those dossiers before opening talks on the future relationship.


Now if the EU are intransigent over their interpretation "sufficient progress", when we'll see the row he was talking about.

Show me where the UK has published any position it has on Brexit covering the negotiations in any way as detailed as the EU. And no, reports in your rabid anit-EU press don't count.

Image

May boiled the whole thing down to an episode of deal or no deal. Thankfully that's over now and the row of the summer is the row-back of the summer. The cabinet is now coming out and talking. Face it she fucked up massively.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:27 am 
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Rinkals wrote:
croyals wrote:
On Rinkals' point, I see no merit in re-running the referendum. The country made a choice, both parties have agreed to honour it and voted as such in Parliament, it makes the referendum pretty moot. I live in the UK, I work for a British company, my family and friends live in the UK.

Getting the best deal for Britain is therefore not about politics for me but about the interests of me, my family and my friends. This broadly, in my opinion, means supporting the Government as they head into negotiations in Brussels. Some people may take some pleasure in being proved right but in the long term they are laughing at their own misfortune.

Forgive me, but that makes no sense to me.

It's quite obvious that the Brexit is a monster clusterfuck and will probably end up being damaging for both the UK and the EU. The margin of the yes vote was pretty small with a large portion of the electorate not even bothering to vote.

The sensible thing would be to look at the situation again and reconsider.

The stupid option is to push ahead even though you know you are very unlikely to get a better deal than the one you have now.

Rinkals, it's happening. There is no reconsidering. The UK doesn't expect a better deal than it has now, it expects a deal with the EU, plus the freedom to do deals with the rest of the world.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:38 am 
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I am aware that there are an awful lot of stupid people in the UK. The fact that rags like the Sun and the Mail thrive there provides ample evidence of that and the Brexit vote merely confirms it.

But surely there are enough people with the sense to realise that there are serious economic repercussions to leaving the EU?

You can bet that, were the boot on the other foot, Farage and Co would be clammering for a rerun, why can't MPs go back to their constituencies and say "this is a fuckup and there is no way to negotiate a deal which doesn't carry a substantial economic hit."?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:53 am 
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Rinkals wrote:
I am aware that there are an awful lot of stupid people in the UK. The fact that rags like the Sun and the Mail thrive there provides ample evidence of that and the Brexit vote merely confirms it.

But surely there are enough people with the sense to realise that there are serious economic repercussions to leaving the EU?

You can bet that, were the boot on the other foot, Farage and Co would be clammering for a rerun, why can't MPs go back to their constituencies and say "this is a fuckup and there is no way to negotiate a deal which doesn't carry a substantial economic hit."?


And why do you even care?

You must have a miserable existance to be this invested in brexit. Get over it, take Rocketz to the playpark or something constructive.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:06 am 
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The significance of the Brexit sequencing U-turn


https://www.ft.com/content/c7923fba-1d3 ... 1822ef20d2

The most interesting is that the obviously absolute precarious position the UK is in does not even dent the British bluster and grandstanding. Totally out of their depth.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:07 am 
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DragsterDriver wrote:
Rinkals wrote:
I am aware that there are an awful lot of stupid people in the UK. The fact that rags like the Sun and the Mail thrive there provides ample evidence of that and the Brexit vote merely confirms it.

But surely there are enough people with the sense to realise that there are serious economic repercussions to leaving the EU?

You can bet that, were the boot on the other foot, Farage and Co would be clammering for a rerun, why can't MPs go back to their constituencies and say "this is a fuckup and there is no way to negotiate a deal which doesn't carry a substantial economic hit."?


And why do you even care?

You must have a miserable existance to be this invested in brexit. Get over it, take Rocketz to the playpark or something constructive.


Grandstanding and bluster


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:39 am 
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DragsterDriver wrote:
Rinkals wrote:
I am aware that there are an awful lot of stupid people in the UK. The fact that rags like the Sun and the Mail thrive there provides ample evidence of that and the Brexit vote merely confirms it.

But surely there are enough people with the sense to realise that there are serious economic repercussions to leaving the EU?

You can bet that, were the boot on the other foot, Farage and Co would be clammering for a rerun, why can't MPs go back to their constituencies and say "this is a fuckup and there is no way to negotiate a deal which doesn't carry a substantial economic hit."?


And why do you even care?

You must have a miserable existance to be this invested in brexit. Get over it, take Rocketz to the playpark or something constructive.

Sun reader, perchance?

I'm a British citizen and I hold a British passport. Why shouldn't I be invested in Brexit? If that's your best argument, don't you think it's a little weak?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:49 am 
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Rinkals wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
Rinkals wrote:
I am aware that there are an awful lot of stupid people in the UK. The fact that rags like the Sun and the Mail thrive there provides ample evidence of that and the Brexit vote merely confirms it.

But surely there are enough people with the sense to realise that there are serious economic repercussions to leaving the EU?

You can bet that, were the boot on the other foot, Farage and Co would be clammering for a rerun, why can't MPs go back to their constituencies and say "this is a fuckup and there is no way to negotiate a deal which doesn't carry a substantial economic hit."?


And why do you even care?

You must have a miserable existance to be this invested in brexit. Get over it, take Rocketz to the playpark or something constructive.

Sun reader, perchance?

I'm a British citizen and I hold a British passport. Why shouldn't I be invested in Brexit? If that's your best argument, don't you think it's a little weak?



Yeah but you kind of sound a bit foreign too.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:50 am 
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Rinkals wrote:
I am aware that there are an awful lot of stupid people in the UK. The fact that rags like the Sun and the Mail thrive there provides ample evidence of that and the Brexit vote merely confirms it.

But surely there are enough people with the sense to realise that there are serious economic repercussions to leaving the EU?

You can bet that, were the boot on the other foot, Farage and Co would be clammering for a rerun, why can't MPs go back to their constituencies and say "this is a fuckup and there is no way to negotiate a deal which doesn't carry a substantial economic hit."?


He said on camera, just before the referendum, when he thought the opinion polls were going the wrong way. 'If the result is close like 52-48 there must be a rerun!' He knew another referendum was the chancer's only hope.
Where's he now? He spooked the weak Cameron and landed us in this disastrous mess.

No more referendums. It's down to the elected parliament to put things right.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:53 am 
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Rinkals wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
Rinkals wrote:
I am aware that there are an awful lot of stupid people in the UK. The fact that rags like the Sun and the Mail thrive there provides ample evidence of that and the Brexit vote merely confirms it.

But surely there are enough people with the sense to realise that there are serious economic repercussions to leaving the EU?

You can bet that, were the boot on the other foot, Farage and Co would be clammering for a rerun, why can't MPs go back to their constituencies and say "this is a fuckup and there is no way to negotiate a deal which doesn't carry a substantial economic hit."?


And why do you even care?

You must have a miserable existance to be this invested in brexit. Get over it, take Rocketz to the playpark or something constructive.

Sun reader, perchance?

I'm a British citizen and I hold a British passport. Why shouldn't I be invested in Brexit? If that's your best argument, don't you think it's a little weak?


Ouch.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:51 am 
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DragsterDriver wrote:
Rinkals wrote:
I am aware that there are an awful lot of stupid people in the UK. The fact that rags like the Sun and the Mail thrive there provides ample evidence of that and the Brexit vote merely confirms it.

But surely there are enough people with the sense to realise that there are serious economic repercussions to leaving the EU?

You can bet that, were the boot on the other foot, Farage and Co would be clammering for a rerun, why can't MPs go back to their constituencies and say "this is a fuckup and there is no way to negotiate a deal which doesn't carry a substantial economic hit."?


And why do you even care?

You must have a miserable existance to be this invested in brexit. Get over it, take Rocketz to the playpark or something constructive.


Like me, he probably 'cares' because it is sad to see so many people being fooled by the Brexit bullshitters. It is sad to see the UK becoming a mere plaything of the Murdochs', Barclay brothers and the other tax dodging multi-billionaires who are only interested in having power and enriching themselves at the expense of the UK.

But guess what? There are enough thickos in the UK to let that happen. They read the rags of these super elites and believe the bullshit that is spouted in those pages. They then wrap a union jack around their brains and think everything will be fine because we're British, everyone loves and respects us and what does Johnny Foreigner know anyway.

It's also sad to see a once proud nation become the laughing stock of the world. Because that what Britain is now, a laughing stock to many sane minded people. Our only saving grace is that the yanks went one better than us and elected Trump.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:04 am 
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Rinkals wrote:
I am aware that there are an awful lot of stupid people in the UK. The fact that rags like the Sun and the Mail thrive there provides ample evidence of that and the Brexit vote merely confirms it.

But surely there are enough people with the sense to realise that there are serious economic repercussions to leaving the EU?

You can bet that, were the boot on the other foot, Farage and Co would be clammering for a rerun, why can't MPs go back to their constituencies and say "this is a fuckup and there is no way to negotiate a deal which doesn't carry a substantial economic hit."?


Indeed. But all the MP's were running scared after the result. Particularly the Labour ones who didn't see the rising of anti EU feeling within their core voters. So when they had the chance to vote against it they bottled it and waved it through.

They've also waved it through during this election just to make sure they appear popular with the 52%.

The best we can hope for now is a brexit which is basically no brexit at all but we end up paying more.

Utter shitshow. Just imagine how well the UK would be doing now if the result had been the other way. Though you'd still have a Tory majority.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:19 am 
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theo wrote:
Rinkals wrote:
I am aware that there are an awful lot of stupid people in the UK. The fact that rags like the Sun and the Mail thrive there provides ample evidence of that and the Brexit vote merely confirms it.

But surely there are enough people with the sense to realise that there are serious economic repercussions to leaving the EU?

You can bet that, were the boot on the other foot, Farage and Co would be clammering for a rerun, why can't MPs go back to their constituencies and say "this is a fuckup and there is no way to negotiate a deal which doesn't carry a substantial economic hit."?


Indeed. But all the MP's were running scared after the result. Particularly the Labour ones who didn't see the rising of anti EU feeling within their core voters. So when they had the chance to vote against it they bottled it and waved it through.

They've also waved it through during this election just to make sure they appear popular with the 52%.

The best we can hope for now is a brexit which is basically no brexit at all but we end up paying more.

Utter shitshow. Just imagine how well the UK would be doing now if the result had been the other way. Though you'd still have a Tory majority.


It is very depressing. Is there any way it could be argued that the EU restructuring has addressed some of our concerns so we don't have to leave?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:33 am 
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It looks like we've already screwed the best deal (the one we already had...); Verhofstadt has said if we want to rescind our Article 50 notification it'll cost our rebate and opt-outs.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:41 am 
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easyray wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
Rinkals wrote:
I am aware that there are an awful lot of stupid people in the UK. The fact that rags like the Sun and the Mail thrive there provides ample evidence of that and the Brexit vote merely confirms it.

But surely there are enough people with the sense to realise that there are serious economic repercussions to leaving the EU?

You can bet that, were the boot on the other foot, Farage and Co would be clammering for a rerun, why can't MPs go back to their constituencies and say "this is a fuckup and there is no way to negotiate a deal which doesn't carry a substantial economic hit."?


And why do you even care?

You must have a miserable existance to be this invested in brexit. Get over it, take Rocketz to the playpark or something constructive.


Like me, he probably 'cares' because it is sad to see so many people being fooled by the Brexit bullshitters. It is sad to see the UK becoming a mere plaything of the Murdochs', Barclay brothers and the other tax dodging multi-billionaires who are only interested in having power and enriching themselves at the expense of the UK.

But guess what? There are enough thickos in the UK to let that happen. They read the rags of these super elites and believe the bullshit that is spouted in those pages. They then wrap a union jack around their brains and think everything will be fine because we're British, everyone loves and respects us and what does Johnny Foreigner know anyway.

It's also sad to see a once proud nation become the laughing stock of the world. Because that what Britain is now, a laughing stock to many sane minded people. Our only saving grace is that the yanks went one better than us and elected bubblefart.


Rubbish, he doesn't care he's a Brit hating plum. By all means troll away like the Irish, but don't pretend otherwise :)


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:41 am 
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Mahoney wrote:
It looks like we've already screwed the best deal (the one we already had...); Verhofstadt has said if we want to rescind our Article 50 notification it'll cost our rebate and opt-outs.


There was never any way back- anybody thinking otherwise was deluded.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:43 am 
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Petej wrote:
theo wrote:
Rinkals wrote:
I am aware that there are an awful lot of stupid people in the UK. The fact that rags like the Sun and the Mail thrive there provides ample evidence of that and the Brexit vote merely confirms it.

But surely there are enough people with the sense to realise that there are serious economic repercussions to leaving the EU?

You can bet that, were the boot on the other foot, Farage and Co would be clammering for a rerun, why can't MPs go back to their constituencies and say "this is a fuckup and there is no way to negotiate a deal which doesn't carry a substantial economic hit."?


Indeed. But all the MP's were running scared after the result. Particularly the Labour ones who didn't see the rising of anti EU feeling within their core voters. So when they had the chance to vote against it they bottled it and waved it through.

They've also waved it through during this election just to make sure they appear popular with the 52%.

The best we can hope for now is a brexit which is basically no brexit at all but we end up paying more.

Utter shitshow. Just imagine how well the UK would be doing now if the result had been the other way. Though you'd still have a Tory majority.


It is very depressing. Is there any way it could be argued that the EU restructuring has addressed some of our concerns so we don't have to leave?[/quote]

Only if the Brexit press allow it. Some how I can't see that happening. The Tories need those newspapers (and their owners) backing them, more than the newspapers need the Tories. Murdoch and his rags, the Mail and the Express are ideologically opposed to the EU and want out of the ECJ (see the Karen Murphy case for an example of why), they see the EU (and ECJ) as an enemy who will regulate them too much, thereby depriving them of a lot of their power and influence, so no, it's not going to happen


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:45 am 
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Mahoney wrote:
It looks like we've already screwed the best deal (the one we already had...); Verhofstadt has said if we want to rescind our Article 50 notification it'll cost our rebate and opt-outs.



And even if you decide to rejoin further down the road those are gone forever.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:46 am 
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DragsterDriver wrote:
easyray wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
Rinkals wrote:
I am aware that there are an awful lot of stupid people in the UK. The fact that rags like the Sun and the Mail thrive there provides ample evidence of that and the Brexit vote merely confirms it.

But surely there are enough people with the sense to realise that there are serious economic repercussions to leaving the EU?

You can bet that, were the boot on the other foot, Farage and Co would be clammering for a rerun, why can't MPs go back to their constituencies and say "this is a fuckup and there is no way to negotiate a deal which doesn't carry a substantial economic hit."?


And why do you even care?

You must have a miserable existance to be this invested in brexit. Get over it, take Rocketz to the playpark or something constructive.


Like me, he probably 'cares' because it is sad to see so many people being fooled by the Brexit bullshitters. It is sad to see the UK becoming a mere plaything of the Murdochs', Barclay brothers and the other tax dodging multi-billionaires who are only interested in having power and enriching themselves at the expense of the UK.

But guess what? There are enough thickos in the UK to let that happen. They read the rags of these super elites and believe the bullshit that is spouted in those pages. They then wrap a union jack around their brains and think everything will be fine because we're British, everyone loves and respects us and what does Johnny Foreigner know anyway.

It's also sad to see a once proud nation become the laughing stock of the world. Because that what Britain is now, a laughing stock to many sane minded people. Our only saving grace is that the yanks went one better than us and elected bubblefart.


Rubbish, he doesn't care he's a Brit hating plum. By all means troll away like the Irish, but don't pretend otherwise :)


Rinkals has never come across to me as a 'Brit hating plum'; Rocketz, yes. And it was no troll, I meant what I posted.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:53 am 
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theo wrote:
Rinkals wrote:
I am aware that there are an awful lot of stupid people in the UK. The fact that rags like the Sun and the Mail thrive there provides ample evidence of that and the Brexit vote merely confirms it.

But surely there are enough people with the sense to realise that there are serious economic repercussions to leaving the EU?

You can bet that, were the boot on the other foot, Farage and Co would be clammering for a rerun, why can't MPs go back to their constituencies and say "this is a fuckup and there is no way to negotiate a deal which doesn't carry a substantial economic hit."?


Indeed. But all the MP's were running scared after the result. Particularly the Labour ones who didn't see the rising of anti EU feeling within their core voters. So when they had the chance to vote against it they bottled it and waved it through.

They've also waved it through during this election just to make sure they appear popular with the 52%.

The best we can hope for now is a brexit which is basically no brexit at all but we end up paying more.

Utter shitshow. Just imagine how well the UK would be doing now if the result had been the other way. Though you'd still have a Tory majority.


So many haven't a clue about teh EU or what this vote means

We will leave the political union. This means we will have no part of this ever closer union (= a new country as per the 5 Presidents report) and the Euro. We will still trade with the EU

This new country will not be democratic. It will be ruled by appointed commissioners and their Eurocrats. Democracy and the sovereign nation states in it will no longer exist. It will be like the USSR. it might work out but my prediction is it will be a complete disaster. Like the USSR


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:57 am 
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Hellraiser wrote:
Mahoney wrote:
It looks like we've already screwed the best deal (the one we already had...); Verhofstadt has said if we want to rescind our Article 50 notification it'll cost our rebate and opt-outs.

And even if you decide to rejoin further down the road those are gone forever.


Once we are out we will never want to rejoin. Like the support for joining in Norway is low now. Likewise Switzerland.

the EU is an economic disaster. and it will get worse. And when the people finally realize what 'ever closer union' really means the resistance will grow.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:34 am 
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Silver wrote:
Hellraiser wrote:
Mahoney wrote:
It looks like we've already screwed the best deal (the one we already had...); Verhofstadt has said if we want to rescind our Article 50 notification it'll cost our rebate and opt-outs.

And even if you decide to rejoin further down the road those are gone forever.


Once we are out we will never want to rejoin. Like the support for joining in Norway is low now. Likewise Switzerland.

the EU is an economic disaster. and it will get worse. And when the people finally realize what 'ever closer union' really means the resistance will grow.


Yes the domino effect. France, Austria, Netherlands were all meant to leave as 'the resistance' grew. How did that go?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:40 am 
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Hellraiser wrote:
Mahoney wrote:
It looks like we've already screwed the best deal (the one we already had...); Verhofstadt has said if we want to rescind our Article 50 notification it'll cost our rebate and opt-outs.



And even if you decide to rejoin further down the road those are gone forever.


Which really is a tragedy because as an Irishman I've always felt that the UK has always been an extremely important contrarian voice in the EU.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:51 am 
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DragsterDriver wrote:
easyray wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
Rinkals wrote:
I am aware that there are an awful lot of stupid people in the UK. The fact that rags like the Sun and the Mail thrive there provides ample evidence of that and the Brexit vote merely confirms it.

But surely there are enough people with the sense to realise that there are serious economic repercussions to leaving the EU?

You can bet that, were the boot on the other foot, Farage and Co would be clammering for a rerun, why can't MPs go back to their constituencies and say "this is a fuckup and there is no way to negotiate a deal which doesn't carry a substantial economic hit."?


And why do you even care?

You must have a miserable existance to be this invested in brexit. Get over it, take Rocketz to the playpark or something constructive.


Like me, he probably 'cares' because it is sad to see so many people being fooled by the Brexit bullshitters. It is sad to see the UK becoming a mere plaything of the Murdochs', Barclay brothers and the other tax dodging multi-billionaires who are only interested in having power and enriching themselves at the expense of the UK.

But guess what? There are enough thickos in the UK to let that happen. They read the rags of these super elites and believe the bullshit that is spouted in those pages. They then wrap a union jack around their brains and think everything will be fine because we're British, everyone loves and respects us and what does Johnny Foreigner know anyway.

It's also sad to see a once proud nation become the laughing stock of the world. Because that what Britain is now, a laughing stock to many sane minded people. Our only saving grace is that the yanks went one better than us and elected bubblefart.


Rubbish, he doesn't care he's a Brit hating plum. By all means troll away like the Irish, but don't pretend otherwise :)


Sorry DD but which of the Irish have been trolling on this thread. As far as I can see almost everything that the smarter Micks have said in the last 1000+ pages has been on the money. It may have made some uncomfortable reading for some of our Brit friends but it wasn't trolling IMO.

You have had your finger on the pulse of this issue from about the 9th post on this magnum opus.....and while you might disagree with some of our comments, most of us know how the EU and it's institutions work .


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:01 am 
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Gauss wrote:
Which really is a tragedy because as an Irishman I've always felt that the UK has always been an extremely important contrarian voice in the EU.

And yet it's that very same Euroscepticism that has led to Brexit. Our politicians never had a good word to say about the EU until such time as the referendum vote and than it was project fear - and as we've just seen with the election, voters are motivated by big ideas not the status quo. Existentially I think the UK has always been a third country where Europe is concerned.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:03 am 
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Gospel wrote:
Gauss wrote:
Which really is a tragedy because as an Irishman I've always felt that the UK has always been an extremely important contrarian voice in the EU.

And yet it's that very same Euroscepticism that has led to Brexit. Our politicians never had a good word to say about the EU until such time as the referendum vote and than it was project fear - and as we've just seen with the election, voters are motivated by big ideas not the status quo. Existentially I think the UK has always been a third country where Europe is concerned.


We're really not that distinctive in having politicians who take personal credit for the EU's popular accomplishments and blame it for the things people don't like. We're just the only nation with a governing party so desperately, pathetically obsessed with power at any cost that it would be willing to put the country's future at risk for the sake of their own stability


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:07 am 
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The Sun God wrote:

Sorry DD but which of the Irish have been trolling on this thread. As far as I can see almost everything that the smarter Micks have said in the last 1000+ pages has been on the money. It may have made some uncomfortable reading for some of our Brit friends but it wasn't trolling IMO.

You have had your finger on the pulse of this issue from about the 9th post on this magnum opus.....and while you might disagree with some of our comments, most of us know how the EU and it's institutions work .



I got my hopes up - then all the self doubt came pouring back :((


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:26 am 
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Silver wrote:
Hellraiser wrote:
Mahoney wrote:
It looks like we've already screwed the best deal (the one we already had...); Verhofstadt has said if we want to rescind our Article 50 notification it'll cost our rebate and opt-outs.

And even if you decide to rejoin further down the road those are gone forever.


Once we are out we will never want to rejoin. Like the support for joining in Norway is low now. Likewise Switzerland.

the EU is an economic disaster. and it will get worse. And when the people finally realize what 'ever closer union' really means the resistance will grow.


Soo..... much...... tinfoil.

EU Economy

https://www.voanews.com/a/brexit-talks- ... 09410.html

EU Sentiment

http://www.pewglobal.org/2017/06/15/pos ... toward-eu/


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:34 am 
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easyray wrote:

Rinkals has never come across to me as a 'Brit hating plum'; Rocketz, yes. And it was no troll, I meant what I posted.



You confuse Brit with English and hate with contempt

So full of bluster.

You guys f*cked up but the English Disease means with your pride cannot get you to move forward.

http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/English_disease


Last edited by Rocketz on Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:39 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:36 am 
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Rocketz, please stop quoting that ignoramus. It makes my head hurt .


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:38 am 
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The Sun God wrote:
Rocketz, please stop quoting that ignoramus. It makes my head hurt .


Ok


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:44 am 
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Rocketz wrote:
easyray wrote:

Rinkals has never come across to me as a 'Brit hating plum'; Rocketz, yes. And it was no troll, I meant what I posted.



You confuse Brit with English and hate with contempt

So full of bluster.

You guys f*cked up but the English Disease means with your pride cannot get you to move forward.

http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/English_disease

If it helps Rocketz, the feeling is mutual.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:50 am 
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The Sun God wrote:
Rocketz, please stop quoting that ignoramus. It makes my head hurt .


:roll: the naive children

I'm continuously proved right. and will be on this

The EU will collapse. its just a matter of when. But the brain-dead, brainwashed useful idiots can't see it


Last edited by Silver on Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:53 am 
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Rocketz wrote:
easyray wrote:

Rinkals has never come across to me as a 'Brit hating plum'; Rocketz, yes. And it was no troll, I meant what I posted.



You confuse Brit with English and hate with contempt

So full of bluster.

You guys f*cked up but the English Disease means with your pride cannot get you to move forward.

http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/English_disease


we are leaving this deceitful EU. and thank god for that

The naive, asleep Irish will eventually wake up to the position you are in. Hopefully before its too late. The EU is no different to the USSR where appointed leaders had all the power. And see how this turned out.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:04 pm 
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Hammond is as stupid as May. Surely there are at least one or two in parliament that aren't clueless?

Quote:
Brexit: another phoney Brexit
Wednesday 21 June 2017

Chancellor Philip Hammond made his much-delayed speech yesterday. This is the man who thought that the cladding used on Grenfell Tower had been banned in the UK, provoking a swift denial from a lead firm in the renovation project.

And now he has been giving us the benefit of his wisdom on "what we want to achieve from those Brexit negotiations". The Prime Minister's Lancaster House speech in January, he said, "had set out clearly the arrangements that the UK would like to agree, built around a comprehensive trade agreement in the context of a deep and special partnership that goes much wider than trade".

But, said the Chancellor, "we recognise that this is a negotiation, and our negotiating counterparts, while broadly sharing our desire for a close ongoing relationship, will have their own priorities". As to our own priorities, we must be "clear" about them. When the British people voted last June, they did not vote to become poorer, or less secure, but they did vote to leave the EU. And we will leave the EU.

But, Hammond declared, "it must be done in a way that works for Britain. In a way that prioritises British jobs, and underpins Britain's prosperity". He added: "Anything less will be a failure to deliver on the instructions of the British people". This brought us to the moment we'd all been waiting for: how we were going to achieve what the Chancellor called "Brexit for Britain".

Firstly, he said, we would secure "a comprehensive agreement for trade in goods and services". Secondly, we would negotiate "mutually beneficial transitional arrangements". These would "avoid unnecessary disruption and dangerous cliff edges".

Thirdly, said our miracle worker, we would agree "frictionless customs arrangements to facilitate trade across our borders – and crucially – to keep the land border on the island of Ireland open and free-flowing".

To achieve this last miracle, "in the context of our wider objectives" would, said Hammond, "be challenging". It will almost certainly involve, "the deployment of new technology". Therefore, he added, "we'd certainly need an implementation period, outside the Customs Union itself".

To allow this, current customs border arrangements would remain in place until new long-term arrangements were up and running. And then finally, Mr Hammond had one big trump card. He was going to take a "pragmatic approach" to one of our most important EU export sector – financial services.

This would need "a new process for establishing regulatory requirements for cross-border business between the UK and EU". This would have to be "evidence-based, symmetrical, and transparent" and "reflect international standards".

Cooperation arrangements had to be "reciprocal, reliable, and prioritise financial stability". Crucially these had to enable "timely and coordinated risk management on both sides". Third, these arrangements have to be permanent and reliable for the businesses regulated under these regimes.

As far as migration goes, Mr Hammond would have us seeking to manage it. We would not seek to shut it down. But, beyond that, no detail was offered. This, though, was the tenor of the entire speech. One could not say it was "wishy-washy" – just "wishy". The speech was long on aspiration but entirely lacking in execution.

Yet, despite this, the Chancellor was "confident" that we could do "a Brexit deal that puts jobs and prosperity first". This would be a deal that "reassures employers that they will still be able to access the talent they need", one that "keeps our markets for goods and services and capital open" and one that would achieve "early agreement on transitional arrangements".

And in this lovely, fluffy, cuddly Brexit that Mr Hammond has invented for us, "trade can carry on flowing smoothly, and businesses up and down the country can move on with investment decisions that they want to make, but that have been on hold since the Referendum".


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:04 pm 
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croyals wrote:
Rocketz wrote:
easyray wrote:

Rinkals has never come across to me as a 'Brit hating plum'; Rocketz, yes. And it was no troll, I meant what I posted.



You confuse Brit with English and hate with contempt

So full of bluster.

You guys f*cked up but the English Disease means with your pride cannot get you to move forward.

http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/English_disease

If it helps Rocketz, the feeling is mutual.


I am at ease with being called a racist biggoted (half) South African rock spider knuckle dragger , dutchman, peasant, white trash, euro trash, neanderthal. You guys have been doing it for centuries.

I honestly dont care if its mutual. That boat has sailed a long time ago.


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