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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:10 pm
by bimboman
camroc1 wrote:
100MileDad wrote:I've been away, has the subject of Germany shamefully rigging the value of the Euro been discussed?
In what way ? The Euro has been good for the EU, including Portugal, Ireland, Spain and Greece.

A quick comparison of GDP per capita values for each in 2000(before adoption of the Euro) and 2016 (latest figures available) shows this in terms any one can understand.

Portugal: GDP per capita 2000 : US$ 11, 502 2016 : US$ 19, 813 Increase : + 72%
Ireland : 2000 : US$ 26, 241 2016 : US$ 61,606 Increase : + 135%
Greece : 2000 : US$ 12, 043 2016 : US$ 18,103 Increase : + 50%
Spain : 2000 : US$ 14, 677 2016 : US$ 26, 528 Increase : + 81%

So far from suffering the effects of a Euro whose value was rigged against them, the tale peddled remorselessly by the UK press and Brexiteers, the so-called "PIGS" countries have, overall, enjoyed enormous overall growth in their economies, notwithstanding the effects of bail-outs, etc,

For comparison purposes lets look at the same figures for the UK, which according to the same press and Brexiteers, was able to avoid the EU disease by staying out of the Euro, and keeping sterling. So,

UK : GDP per capita 2000: US$ 27, 769 2016: US$ 39,899 Increase : +43%

So, in actual fact, over the course of the Euro period, growth per capita in the UK economy, which enjoyed glorious control over its own currency, has been substantially less than that in the so called "PIGS" economies of Ireland, Spain and Portugal, and less even than the growth in the Greek economy despite the various bailouts.

And you still talk of the Germans rigging the value of the Euro! :lol:

EDIT Source for all GDP figures is the World Bank.

Those exchange rate adjusted ? As for the "success" of Spian, Greek and Portuguese economies :lol: you stupid c unt.


Here's Spanish wages for the same period.

https://tradingeconomics.com/spain/wages

You've also told a great big porky about what Irish GDP was in USD in 2000

https://tradingeconomics.com/ireland/gdp-per-capita


And it appears Portugal

https://tradingeconomics.com/portugal/gdp-per-capita

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:10 pm
by 100MileDad
Your example of Moroccan accession could be vetoed by any EU member, so on that issue even if the UK stood alone against all other members it could not happen
You trust the EU, I don't. They were going to whittle away what little power it held anyway.

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:48 pm
by iarmhiman
100MileDad wrote:<sigh>

The Council are the decision makers. If they wanted to make Morocco part of the EU, for example, how would we go about stopping that?

Short answer, we, the people, couldn't stop anything.

No, feck that.
Read this Daccy please:

This is the legislative process.

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/external/ ... rks_en.pdf

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:52 pm
by bimboman
iarmhiman wrote:
100MileDad wrote:<sigh>

The Council are the decision makers. If they wanted to make Morocco part of the EU, for example, how would we go about stopping that?

Short answer, we, the people, couldn't stop anything.

No, feck that.
Read this Daccy please:

This is the legislative process.

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/external/ ... rks_en.pdf

Most of the council votes are on qualified majorities aren't they ?

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:54 pm
by iarmhiman
bimboman wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:
100MileDad wrote:<sigh>

The Council are the decision makers. If they wanted to make Morocco part of the EU, for example, how would we go about stopping that?

Short answer, we, the people, couldn't stop anything.

No, feck that.
Read this Daccy please:

This is the legislative process.

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/external/ ... rks_en.pdf

Most of the council votes are on qualified majorities aren't they ?
The point of the link is that parliament can block proposals by the commission.

I'll have to come back to you on that question

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:58 pm
by Chips
100MileDad wrote:Have the EU decided who's going to plug the funding gap when we leave yet?

It's being talked about but don't worry, EU President Jean Claude Juncker said an increase in EU budget contributions was equivalent to a cup of coffee per day per citizen.

Let them eat cake.

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:13 pm
by Gospel
Leinster in London wrote:
Gospel wrote:
Leinster in London wrote:
Gospel wrote: What is this nonsense? Ireland, Norway and the UK were offered the opportunity to join the EEC in 1973. Ireland and Norway had a public vote, the UK did not.
So is parliament sovereign or not ?
Another stupid post. You're on a roll. iarmhiman claimed that Ireland joined the EU because Britain was "a main player in the EU" which was wrong in every sense.
Well get your Power to the People revolution going. In the meantime parliamentary sovereignty exists.
What argument do you think you're having here you fucking lemon?

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:30 pm
by SamShark
Jeremy Corbyn’s cosy Brexit pitch is a gamble. But he’s still beating May
It is hard to imagine Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn swapping Brexit confidences, but if it did happen they would find they had a lot in common. Both were chilly remainers who kept the referendum campaign at arm’s length. Both then embraced a leaver’s agenda with an eagerness pro-Europeans found unseemly. May harbours a quietly nationalistic distaste for anything that presumes cultural and political parity between the UK and continentals. Corbyn is steeped in socialist distrust of institutions that uphold free markets. The European Union is too foreign for the Tory leader and too capitalist for the Labour one, but neither wants to be defined by that reaction. They are natural Eurosceptics, not wild Europhobes.

But those vague inclinations don’t help much with the technical choices that Brexit demands. This is a bigger problem for the prime minister, since the stakes are so much higher in Downing Street. An opposition leader can learn from the government’s mistakes. Corbyn is also lucky that his MPs push him in a direction that goes with the grain of diplomatic and economic reality – towards integration with the EU. May is constrained by backbenchers who are bitterly estranged from an evidence-led appraisal of Britain’s options.

That difference accounts for Corbyn’s acceptance in a speech on Monday that the UK should form a customs union with the EU. This decision was long in assembly, then tugged slowly out of dock by a fleet of hints, so its formal launch is not a surprise. But it is important. It lays the foundation for a common platform with rebellious Tory MPs of a pro-European bent. In a hung parliament, power quickly drains from a government that loses votes, and Labour’s customs union has Commons arithmetic on its side.

The shift also stands out as an example of the kind of choice that May can’t make. Even a small opposition action looks big against the expanse of government inaction. Corbyn has dared to name an item on the menu, albeit only a starter, while May describes exotic dishes the chefs have said countless times do not exist.

But the Labour and Tory leaders are still at the same table in the same restaurant. Fevered reactions to the customs union move have obscured the fact that Corbyn delivered the most explicitly pro-Brexit speech of his leadership of the party. Its central premise was that the hazards of leaving the EU have been exaggerated, and that the only real risk comes from the whole thing being done by wicked Tories.

Corbyn’s cards have come away from his chest, and he’s holding a flush of leave
Corbyn’s view is that, quite aside from a democratic duty to honour the referendum result, Brexit is a sensible, indeed desirable goal, just as long as it is handled by a party of the left. This has long been implicit in the Labour leader’s actions. Its explicit declaration will still disappoint anyone harbouring hopes that the opposition is engaged in some cunning guerrilla sabotage, sniping tactically at the Tories and holding back from a full-throated remain cry only because public opinion is unready to hear it. Corbyn’s cards have come away from his chest, and he’s holding a flush of leave.

This is risky when a majority of Labour members opposed Brexit. Many still hate it with a passion, including some of the Momentum infantry whose loyalty is to Corbyn personally. Their allegiance has been unshakable so far, but some might yet feel let down when they discover that their hero will never fly the blue-and-yellow flag for a united Europe. The Labour leadership is gambling that, for the Momentum crowd, personal trust in the man they call simply “Jeremy” is stronger than attachment to the sterile remain badge. The pitch is a cosy Corbyn Brexit.

This formula involves keeping standards for workers and environmental protections that some Tories itch to shred. It imposes migration controls (since the leave-voting public in Labour constituencies demands them) but, being Corbyn-approved, the new border regime would be uncontaminated by racial animus. The most capitalistic bits of the EU – rules limiting state control of industry, for instance – can be dealt with through “protections, clarifications and exemptions”. The whole package means leaving the single market, but in a friendly and piecemeal fashion.

The key word Corbyn used to describe this relationship with the EU is “bespoke”, a term copied from May’s little book of Brexit bluffs. Every European leader has made it clear that the advantages of the single market come as a set, with obligations to uphold the rules. Cherry-picking bits of the apparatus and spitting out ideologically indigestible stones is not an option. That is a legal fact, not a negotiating posture. It makes no difference that Labour is more trusted in Brussels to be pro-European, or that the cherries Corbyn wants to pick are on the left-hand side of the tree, or that he says “jobs-first Brexit”.

Quitting the single market has severe economic costs, regardless of the motive for doing so. Any decent national leader would explain that to the country, but neither the prime minister nor her Labour rival wants to do it. Their positions are at opposite ends of the political spectrum, but they are symmetrical. Both want to leave the EU and pretend that it can be done without pain. Both are on a halting, meandering journey, like a slow bicycle race, towards the understanding that Brexit in practice looks nothing like the Brexit theories that prevailed in the referendum campaign. After that vote, Corbyn and May embarked on parallel collision courses with reality. The Labour leader’s greatest advantage has been the time and space to amend the trajectory. The prime minister, under pressure from her party, pedalled harder and faster towards the impossible. So she will crash first.

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:35 pm
by Gospel
SamShark wrote:May harbours a quietly nationalistic distaste for anything that presumes cultural and political parity between the UK and continentals
How's that? :?

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:36 pm
by SamShark
Gospel wrote:
SamShark wrote:May harbours a quietly nationalistic distaste for anything that presumes cultural and political parity between the UK and continentals
How's that? :?
Dunno - I made that bit up when writing my Guardian piece

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:42 pm
by Gospel
SamShark wrote:
Gospel wrote:
SamShark wrote:May harbours a quietly nationalistic distaste for anything that presumes cultural and political parity between the UK and continentals
How's that? :?
Dunno - I made that bit up when writing my Guardian piece
Oh is that where you cut and pasted it from. :thumbup:

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:50 pm
by bimboman
That difference accounts for Corbyn’s acceptance in a speech on Monday that the UK should form a customs union with the EU
No, he said we should during the transition period (which was a f ucking given anyway for both sides as hats the transition rules agreed),

He said anything further was optional. IT appears also he was talking about cake.

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:05 pm
by bimboman
It appears Corbyn want the option of a customs union, where we can still be involved in trade deals. :lol:

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:08 pm
by nardol
bimboman wrote:It appears Corbyn want the option of a customs union, where we can still be involved in trade deals. :lol:
thought you would be pleased



you have been banging on about this being the scenario for 8 months now

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:11 pm
by bimboman
nardol wrote:
bimboman wrote:It appears Corbyn want the option of a customs union, where we can still be involved in trade deals. :lol:
thought you would be pleased



you have been banging on about this being the scenario for 8 months now

no, I've argued that an arrangement on customs would be great ie a trade deal , "bespoke " if you like . I've never said that we could join in with EU trade negotiations and have a veto on those deals. And that we should leave the CU.

Stop lying.

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:11 pm
by iarmhiman
Corbyn looking for his cake and eating it as well. What is wrong with these politicians?

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:12 pm
by bimboman
iarmhiman wrote:Corbyn looking for his cake and eating it as well. What is wrong with these politicians?

Differant cake. Not Tory scum cake.

Btw, brexiteers like Rees Mogg have been realistic on this all along.

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:17 pm
by TranceNRG
bimboman wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:Corbyn looking for his cake and eating it as well. What is wrong with these politicians?

Differant cake. Not Tory scum cake.

Btw, brexiteers like Rees Mogg have been realistic on this all along.
He and his labour cronise are dishonest marxist plums trying to deceive people. This is purely a vote grabbing policy.

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:18 pm
by croyals
Odds on whatever customs agreement is met having 'union' stuck in its title

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:24 pm
by iarmhiman
Customs union is not enough to solve border problem in Ireland. Single market as well needs to be on the agenda as well, but Corbyn needs to understand UK would have no say in trade deals as they will be no longer be in the EU.

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:28 pm
by bimboman
croyals wrote:Odds on whatever customs agreement is met having 'union' stuck in its title

:thumbup: , short.

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:28 pm
by bimboman
iarmhiman wrote:Customs union is not enough to solve border problem in Ireland. Single market as well needs to be on the agenda as well, but Corbyn needs to understand UK would have no say in trade deals as they will be no longer be in the EU.

That's a big claim, why the single market ?

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:32 pm
by iarmhiman
bimboman wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:Customs union is not enough to solve border problem in Ireland. Single market as well needs to be on the agenda as well, but Corbyn needs to understand UK would have no say in trade deals as they will be no longer be in the EU.

That's a big claim, why the single market ?
Services need to be included as well between north and south.

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:33 pm
by iarmhiman
c69 wrote:sorry mods :(
Leave Bimbo alone you bully

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:36 pm
by bimboman
iarmhiman wrote:
bimboman wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:Customs union is not enough to solve border problem in Ireland. Single market as well needs to be on the agenda as well, but Corbyn needs to understand UK would have no say in trade deals as they will be no longer be in the EU.

That's a big claim, why the single market ?
Services need to be included as well between north and south.

What services ?

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:37 pm
by iarmhiman
bimboman wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:
bimboman wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:Customs union is not enough to solve border problem in Ireland. Single market as well needs to be on the agenda as well, but Corbyn needs to understand UK would have no say in trade deals as they will be no longer be in the EU.

That's a big claim, why the single market ?
Services need to be included as well between north and south.

What services ?
Tech support, Business outsourcing, call centres, Field engineering. There are many examples.

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:40 pm
by bimboman
iarmhiman wrote:
bimboman wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:
bimboman wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:Customs union is not enough to solve border problem in Ireland. Single market as well needs to be on the agenda as well, but Corbyn needs to understand UK would have no say in trade deals as they will be no longer be in the EU.

That's a big claim, why the single market ?
Services need to be included as well between north and south.

What services ?
Tech support, Business outsourcing, call centres, Field engineering. There are many examples.

They currently operate in differant countries, I'm confused as tomwhynthe single market would be needed for "tech support , call centres or even outsourcing " ?

I'm fairly certain that I've spoken to nice Indian people for example in all three of those areas.

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:19 am
by Nobleman
bimboman wrote:
nardol wrote:
bimboman wrote:It appears Corbyn want the option of a customs union, where we can still be involved in trade deals. :lol:
thought you would be pleased



you have been banging on about this being the scenario for 8 months now

no, I've argued that an arrangement on customs would be great ie a trade deal , "bespoke " if you like . I've never said that we could join in with EU trade negotiations and have a veto on those deals. And that we should leave the CU.

Stop lying.
Why don’t you read your posts? They’re just gibberish with the odd expletive thrown in.

I don’t think you have the faintest idea what the single market or the customs union are.

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:22 am
by bimboman
Nobleman wrote:
bimboman wrote:
nardol wrote:
bimboman wrote:It appears Corbyn want the option of a customs union, where we can still be involved in trade deals. :lol:
thought you would be pleased



you have been banging on about this being the scenario for 8 months now

no, I've argued that an arrangement on customs would be great ie a trade deal , "bespoke " if you like . I've never said that we could join in with EU trade negotiations and have a veto on those deals. And that we should leave the CU.

Stop lying.
Why don’t you read your posts? They’re just gibberish with the odd expletive thrown in.

I don’t think you have the faintest idea what the single market or the customs union are.

Why don't you post an article you have barely read , that often enough is the opposite of the view you're espousing.

Why don't you explain why the single market is needed for Irish call centers ?

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:33 am
by Chips
The UK just wants a trade deal with the EU much like the one they have with Peru. I don't know all the specifics of it but I'm fairly certain it doesn't contain a free movement of people clause. The EU can do it if they wish.

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:22 am
by Floppykid
bimboman wrote:
Nobleman wrote:
bimboman wrote:
nardol wrote:
bimboman wrote:It appears Corbyn want the option of a customs union, where we can still be involved in trade deals. :lol:
thought you would be pleased



you have been banging on about this being the scenario for 8 months now

no, I've argued that an arrangement on customs would be great ie a trade deal , "bespoke " if you like . I've never said that we could join in with EU trade negotiations and have a veto on those deals. And that we should leave the CU.

Stop lying.
Why don’t you read your posts? They’re just gibberish with the odd expletive thrown in.

I don’t think you have the faintest idea what the single market or the customs union are.

Why don't you post an article you have barely read , that often enough is the opposite of the view you're espousing.

Why don't you explain why the single market is needed for Irish call centers ?
That's getting added to Brexit bingo. :lol:

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:49 am
by camroc1
Here you go, Bimbo : Mays promise of regulatory alignment etc. etc. is going in the legal text of the EU/UK agreement.

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/ ... 5187082240

and for some background, RTE's Tony Connelly.

https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2018/022 ... reckoning/

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:57 am
by Leinster in London
bimboman wrote:
Nobleman wrote:
bimboman wrote:
nardol wrote:
bimboman wrote:It appears Corbyn want the option of a customs union, where we can still be involved in trade deals. :lol:
thought you would be pleased



you have been banging on about this being the scenario for 8 months now

no, I've argued that an arrangement on customs would be great ie a trade deal , "bespoke " if you like . I've never said that we could join in with EU trade negotiations and have a veto on those deals. And that we should leave the CU.

Stop lying.
Why don’t you read your posts? They’re just gibberish with the odd expletive thrown in.

I don’t think you have the faintest idea what the single market or the customs union are.

Why don't you post an article you have barely read , that often enough is the opposite of the view you're espousing.

Why don't you explain why the single market is needed for Irish call centers ?
What is a call center ?

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:54 am
by DragsterDriver
How traumatic is it going to be if the EU manage to get May removed? Has Corbyn ‘done a deal with the devil’?

It’s looking like she’s going to come under fire from everywhere.

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:24 am
by La soule
TranceNRG wrote:
bimboman wrote:
iarmhiman wrote:Corbyn looking for his cake and eating it as well. What is wrong with these politicians?

Differant cake. Not Tory scum cake.

Btw, brexiteers like Rees Mogg have been realistic on this all along.
He and his labour cronise are dishonest marxist plums trying to deceive people. This is purely a vote grabbing policy.
At this stage, the Tories come across as more incompetent. And talking about deception, do you want to go back to the GBP350M a week to the NHS campaign slogan?

Why is it that Brexiters always point the fingers at others??? No self-awareness whatsoever.

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:27 am
by bimboman
If see spelling mistakes means the Irish can all slide sideways from the claims last night about the single market requirements. :thumbup:

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:28 am
by bimboman
camroc1 wrote:Here you go, Bimbo : Mays promise of regulatory alignment etc. etc. is going in the legal text of the EU/UK agreement.

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/ ... 5187082240

and for some background, RTE's Tony Connelly.

https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2018/022 ... reckoning/

Better effort than your invented GDP figures yesterday ...

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:33 am
by Rugby2023
camroc1 wrote:Here you go, Bimbo : Mays promise of regulatory alignment etc. etc. is going in the legal text of the EU/UK agreement.

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/ ... 5187082240

and for some background, RTE's Tony Connelly.

https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2018/022 ... reckoning/
The text will be circulated among officials from the 27 member states and will then be subject to further negotiation with the UK.

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:18 am
by TranceNRG
So EU still want Ireland to recover those unpaid taxes. What would be Ireland's next move?

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/27/eu-says ... taxes.html
EU says Ireland's Apple complaint will only be dropped if it recovers the full $16 billion in unpaid taxes
The European Commission could withdraw its complaint against Ireland for not recovering 13 billion euros in unpaid taxes from Apple if the country recovers the amount in full, the EU's Competition Commissioner Margrethe Vestager told CNBC.
Apple in 2016 was ordered to pay Ireland the record-breaking sum after a ruling by the European Commission found that a "sweetheart" tax deal between Apple and Dublin's tax authorities broke EU laws.

Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:39 pm
by camroc1
TranceNRG wrote:So EU still want Ireland to recover those unpaid taxes. What would be Ireland's next move?

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/27/eu-says ... taxes.html
EU says Ireland's Apple complaint will only be dropped if it recovers the full $16 billion in unpaid taxes
The European Commission could withdraw its complaint against Ireland for not recovering 13 billion euros in unpaid taxes from Apple if the country recovers the amount in full, the EU's Competition Commissioner Margrethe Vestager told CNBC.
Apple in 2016 was ordered to pay Ireland the record-breaking sum after a ruling by the European Commission found that a "sweetheart" tax deal between Apple and Dublin's tax authorities broke EU laws.
Both Ireland and Apple have appealed the Commissions ruling separately to the ECJ. And there it sits regardless of how many pressies Verstagger releases.


For the record, the Competition Commission ruled that Ireland broke competition law and didn't make any ruling on Irelands tax laws.

But then, ignorance hasn't stopped you before.