Planet Rugby Forum

bimboman wrote:

sewa wrote:

bimboman wrote:

sewa wrote:As usual Bimbo is shooting himself in both feet. If it takes 15 years for one trade deal how will the UK with no expert negotiators do all the trade deals it needs in the short time they have left

What ? it takes 15 years for the EU, other countries bang em out.

They bang out brilliant deals in no time, of course they do. They can also do loads of them simultaneously because there was loads of experienced guys just hanging around your civil service doing sweet FA all this time

The Swiss manage it.

https://www.seco.admin.ch/seco/en/home/ ... hweiz.html

sewa wrote:

bimboman wrote:

sewa wrote:

bimboman wrote:

sewa wrote:As usual Bimbo is shooting himself in both feet. If it takes 15 years for one trade deal how will the UK with no expert negotiators do all the trade deals it needs in the short time they have left

What ? it takes 15 years for the EU, other countries bang em out.

They bang out brilliant deals in no time, of course they do. They can also do loads of them simultaneously because there was loads of experienced guys just hanging around your civil service doing sweet FA all this time

The Swiss manage it.

https://www.seco.admin.ch/seco/en/home/ ... hweiz.html

The Swiss are doing it for decades upon decades. They have all the mechanisms, infrastructure and people in place. You have diddly squat in place. Please don´t try and pretend they do loads of simultaneous deals either. No one believes the nonsense you are peddling

sewa wrote:You need offices, IT infrastructure, trade specialists, lawyers, HR, management, rules, guidelines, procedures etc. A big organisation like that won´t just materialise over night. Also you don´t need seven deals, you need hundreds.

merry! wrote:

sewa wrote:You need offices, IT infrastructure, trade specialists, lawyers, HR, management, rules, guidelines, procedures etc. A big organisation like that won´t just materialise over night. Also you don´t need seven deals, you need hundreds.

shouldn't you micks be more worried about how absolutely fecked you're going to be (without an agreement)?

could always come with us, of course..

merry! wrote:

sewa wrote:You need offices, IT infrastructure, trade specialists, lawyers, HR, management, rules, guidelines, procedures etc. A big organisation like that won´t just materialise over night. Also you don´t need seven deals, you need hundreds.

shouldn't you micks be more worried about how absolutely fecked you're going to be?

could always come with us, of course..

merry! wrote:

sewa wrote:You need offices, IT infrastructure, trade specialists, lawyers, HR, management, rules, guidelines, procedures etc. A big organisation like that won´t just materialise over night. Also you don´t need seven deals, you need hundreds.

shouldn't you micks be more worried about how absolutely fecked you're going to be (without an agreement)?

could always come with us, of course..

Mick Mannock wrote:

merry! wrote:

sewa wrote:You need offices, IT infrastructure, trade specialists, lawyers, HR, management, rules, guidelines, procedures etc. A big organisation like that won´t just materialise over night. Also you don´t need seven deals, you need hundreds.

shouldn't you micks be more worried about how absolutely fecked you're going to be (without an agreement)?

could always come with us, of course..

They will be fine now that they can sell milk to the Japanese.

sewa wrote:You need offices, IT infrastructure, trade specialists, lawyers, HR, management, rules, guidelines, procedures etc. A big organisation like that won´t just materialise over night. Also you don´t need seven deals, you need hundreds.

UK farming just won't exist post Brexit.

bimboman wrote:

UK farming just won't exist post Brexit.

, insane cammys back.

Rinkals wrote:

Gospel wrote:

Rinkals wrote:

SamShark wrote:I think it's pretty clear that the majority of Brexit voters wanted to stay in the customs union.

Indeed.

Cake and all that.

Non member, but still with the reserved car parking, club amenities, etc. without having to pay the subs.

You think it's a good idea to let the EU sell access to the UK market to a third party without the UK having any reciprocal access? Figures.

Well, from that, I suspect you feel that the UK hold all the cards.

I'm not sure you're right.

camroc1 wrote:

merry! wrote:

sewa wrote:You need offices, IT infrastructure, trade specialists, lawyers, HR, management, rules, guidelines, procedures etc. A big organisation like that won´t just materialise over night. Also you don´t need seven deals, you need hundreds.

shouldn't you micks be more worried about how absolutely fecked you're going to be (without an agreement)?

could always come with us, of course..

We know exactly how fecked we will be. We have since you fúckers voted for Brexit.

However we also know what the result of being an effective satellite of the UK will do to us, we lived it 1922-1972, and we won't be going back there thank you very much.

bimboman wrote:

sewa wrote:You need offices, IT infrastructure, trade specialists, lawyers, HR, management, rules, guidelines, procedures etc. A big organisation like that won´t just materialise over night. Also you don´t need seven deals, you need hundreds.

Yes the British state is devoid of all those things !

I am intrigued by the 100’s though.

camroc1 wrote:

bimboman wrote:

UK farming just won't exist post Brexit.

, insane cammys back.

Not insane, the opinion of a HOC committee.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... transition

But then they're probably all remoaners anyway.

merry! wrote:

camroc1 wrote:

merry! wrote:

sewa wrote:You need offices, IT infrastructure, trade specialists, lawyers, HR, management, rules, guidelines, procedures etc. A big organisation like that won´t just materialise over night. Also you don´t need seven deals, you need hundreds.

shouldn't you micks be more worried about how absolutely fecked you're going to be (without an agreement)?

could always come with us, of course..

We know exactly how fecked we will be. We have since you fúckers voted for Brexit.

However we also know what the result of being an effective satellite of the UK will do to us, we lived it 1922-1972, and we won't be going back there thank you very much.

you wouldn't need to be a satellite.

you could apply to rejoin the union.

In 1920, 80 per cent of the industrial output of the entire island came from the three counties around Belfast. Belfast was the biggest city in Ireland in 1911, larger than Dublin, and was home to Ireland’s innovation and technology.

At partition the North was industrial and rich, the South agricultural and poor. Fast-forward to now, and the contrast couldn’t be greater. The collapse of the Northern Ireland economy compared with that of the Republic has been unprecedented. East and West Germany come to mind.

Economically, the Union has enfeebled the North while independence has enriched the South – particularly since the peace process. Commercially, there was a huge peace dividend, but it went south.

The Republic’s economy is four times larger, generated by a work force that is only two and a half times bigger. The Republic’s industrial output is today 10 times that of the North. Exports from the Republic are 17 times greater than those from Northern Ireland, and average income per head in the Republic, at €39,873, dwarfs the €23,700 across the Border.

Immigration is a traditional indicator of economic vitality. In the Republic one in six people are immigrants, the corresponding figure for the North is one in a hundred.

Dublin is three times bigger than Belfast, far more cosmopolitan and home to hundreds of international companies.

• With a limited trade-deal negotiating skills-base.
  A vulnerable need for speed.
  Red lines to protect their delicate stomach for immigration.

shereblue wrote:Today's ludicrously framed claim is that other countries bang out trade deals that the EU take 15 years over. It is backed up by a list of Swiss trade deals. Fair play to the Swiss. Why no comparative figures?

Is it because the number of trade deals concluded or in negotiation by the Swiss are virtually matched by the EU?

The EU certainly compares well in numbers with comparable larger economies such as the USA, China and Japan.

Plucky little newbies however expect to emulate the deft Swiss on numbers? And to maintain quality?

• With a limited trade-deal negotiating skills-base.
  A vulnerable need for speed.
  Red lines to protect their delicate stomach for immigration.

Oh that the rest of Europe could be blessed with a British birthright

sewa wrote:You need offices, IT infrastructure, trade specialists, lawyers, HR, management, rules, guidelines, procedures etc. A big organisation like that won´t just materialise over night. Also you don´t need seven deals, you need hundreds.

bimboman wrote:

UK farming just won't exist post Brexit.

, insane cammys back.

shereblue wrote:Today's ludicrously framed claim is that other countries bang out trade deals that the EU take 15 years over. It is backed up by a list of Swiss trade deals. Fair play to the Swiss. Why no comparative figures?

Is it because the number of trade deals concluded or in negotiation by the Swiss are virtually matched by the EU?

The EU certainly compares well in numbers with comparable larger economies such as the USA, China and Japan.

Plucky little newbies however expect to emulate the deft Swiss on numbers? And to maintain quality?

• With a limited trade-deal negotiating skills-base.
  A vulnerable need for speed.
  Red lines to protect their delicate stomach for immigration.

Oh that the rest of Europe could be blessed with a British birthright

piquant wrote:

sewa wrote:You need offices, IT infrastructure, trade specialists, lawyers, HR, management, rules, guidelines, procedures etc. A big organisation like that won´t just materialise over night. Also you don´t need seven deals, you need hundreds.

https://www.ft.com/content/f1435a8e-372 ... 23f8c0fd2e

Just as per the one FT article we need 759, and that 'just to stand still' rather than progressing to the sunlit Brexit uplands. And yes, all of our expertise in arranging these deals is held within the EU, and we're getting no detail from the government on how this will be handled in reality, just rhetoric

bimboman wrote:

shereblue wrote:Today's ludicrously framed claim is that other countries bang out trade deals that the EU take 15 years over. It is backed up by a list of Swiss trade deals. Fair play to the Swiss. Why no comparative figures?

Is it because the number of trade deals concluded or in negotiation by the Swiss are virtually matched by the EU?

The EU certainly compares well in numbers with comparable larger economies such as the USA, China and Japan.

Plucky little newbies however expect to emulate the deft Swiss on numbers? And to maintain quality?

• With a limited trade-deal negotiating skills-base.
  A vulnerable need for speed.
  Red lines to protect their delicate stomach for immigration.

Oh that the rest of Europe could be blessed with a British birthright

You do know that the EU currently has only one signed FTA outside of its internal market ?

bimboman wrote:

shereblue wrote:Today's ludicrously framed claim is that other countries bang out trade deals that the EU take 15 years over. It is backed up by a list of Swiss trade deals. Fair play to the Swiss. Why no comparative figures?

Is it because the number of trade deals concluded or in negotiation by the Swiss are virtually matched by the EU?

The EU certainly compares well in numbers with comparable larger economies such as the USA, China and Japan.

Plucky little newbies however expect to emulate the deft Swiss on numbers? And to maintain quality?

• With a limited trade-deal negotiating skills-base.
  A vulnerable need for speed.
  Red lines to protect their delicate stomach for immigration.

Oh that the rest of Europe could be blessed with a British birthright

You do know that the EU currently has only one signed FTA outside of its internal market ?

clementinfrance wrote:

bimboman wrote:

shereblue wrote:Today's ludicrously framed claim is that other countries bang out trade deals that the EU take 15 years over. It is backed up by a list of Swiss trade deals. Fair play to the Swiss. Why no comparative figures?

Is it because the number of trade deals concluded or in negotiation by the Swiss are virtually matched by the EU?

The EU certainly compares well in numbers with comparable larger economies such as the USA, China and Japan.

Plucky little newbies however expect to emulate the deft Swiss on numbers? And to maintain quality?

• With a limited trade-deal negotiating skills-base.
  A vulnerable need for speed.
  Red lines to protect their delicate stomach for immigration.

Oh that the rest of Europe could be blessed with a British birthright

You do know that the EU currently has only one signed FTA outside of its internal market ?

Is that the one signed and in force FTA the EU has with Mexico or with Israel or maybe with South Korea?

La soule wrote:

bimboman wrote:

shereblue wrote:Today's ludicrously framed claim is that other countries bang out trade deals that the EU take 15 years over. It is backed up by a list of Swiss trade deals. Fair play to the Swiss. Why no comparative figures?

Is it because the number of trade deals concluded or in negotiation by the Swiss are virtually matched by the EU?

The EU certainly compares well in numbers with comparable larger economies such as the USA, China and Japan.

Plucky little newbies however expect to emulate the deft Swiss on numbers? And to maintain quality?

• With a limited trade-deal negotiating skills-base.
  A vulnerable need for speed.
  Red lines to protect their delicate stomach for immigration.

Oh that the rest of Europe could be blessed with a British birthright

You do know that the EU currently has only one signed FTA outside of its internal market ?

He is not even mentioning FTAs

piquant wrote:How many MRAs has the EU done in the last decade or so?

Gospel wrote:

Rinkals wrote:

Gospel wrote:

Rinkals wrote:

SamShark wrote:I think it's pretty clear that the majority of Brexit voters wanted to stay in the customs union.

Indeed.

Cake and all that.

Non member, but still with the reserved car parking, club amenities, etc. without having to pay the subs.

You think it's a good idea to let the EU sell access to the UK market to a third party without the UK having any reciprocal access? Figures.

Well, from that, I suspect you feel that the UK hold all the cards.

I'm not sure you're right.

What have cards got to do with it? It's not a negotiating position but a red line simply because it would greatly disenfranchise the UK. Why do you make everything a contest?

Rinkals wrote: What on earth are you talking about?

Samshark suggested that Brexiteers want to stay in the customs union, and I would say it's obvious that that would be fundamental to the success of Brexit. Losing the EU as a market in which you could preferentially trade will probably impact your economy. Bimbo will disagree, I know, but I would imagine that most sensible people would regard that as quite likely.

However, it's quite clear (to me, if not to Bimbo) that the UK cannot be allowed to continue having "frictionless" trade when it is outside of the European Union if the EU is to survive. Hence the notion of benefiting from membership of the EU (eating the cake) without having to pay subscriptions or abide by the rules (having the cake) is unlikely to be agreed to by the EU negotiators.

It has been mentioned numerous times on here that EU needs the UK as a market (for BMW amongst others) and cannot afford to lose that market. Hence the notion that the UK holds the cards in this negotiation. As I said in the post above, I'm not sure that I believe that the latter is strong enough to overcome the former and allow trade which, if not entirely frictionless, is fairly free.

I must say it's disappointing that my simple statement needed this much explanation.

La soule wrote:

Rinkals wrote: What on earth are you talking about?

Samshark suggested that Brexiteers want to stay in the customs union, and I would say it's obvious that that would be fundamental to the success of Brexit. Losing the EU as a market in which you could preferentially trade will probably impact your economy. Bimbo will disagree, I know, but I would imagine that most sensible people would regard that as quite likely.

However, it's quite clear (to me, if not to Bimbo) that the UK cannot be allowed to continue having "frictionless" trade when it is outside of the European Union if the EU is to survive. Hence the notion of benefiting from membership of the EU (eating the cake) without having to pay subscriptions or abide by the rules (having the cake) is unlikely to be agreed to by the EU negotiators.

It has been mentioned numerous times on here that EU needs the UK as a market (for BMW amongst others) and cannot afford to lose that market. Hence the notion that the UK holds the cards in this negotiation. As I said in the post above, I'm not sure that I believe that the latter is strong enough to overcome the former and allow trade which, if not entirely frictionless, is fairly free.

I must say it's disappointing that my simple statement needed this much explanation.

You will get use to it.

It is hard work though.

bimboman wrote:

clementinfrance wrote:

bimboman wrote:

shereblue wrote:Today's ludicrously framed claim is that other countries bang out trade deals that the EU take 15 years over. It is backed up by a list of Swiss trade deals. Fair play to the Swiss. Why no comparative figures?

Is it because the number of trade deals concluded or in negotiation by the Swiss are virtually matched by the EU?

The EU certainly compares well in numbers with comparable larger economies such as the USA, China and Japan.

Plucky little newbies however expect to emulate the deft Swiss on numbers? And to maintain quality?

• With a limited trade-deal negotiating skills-base.
  A vulnerable need for speed.
  Red lines to protect their delicate stomach for immigration.

Oh that the rest of Europe could be blessed with a British birthright

You do know that the EU currently has only one signed FTA outside of its internal market ?

Is that the one signed and in force FTA the EU has with Mexico or with Israel or maybe with South Korea?

We are calling current Mexican deal an FTA now are we, seems rather desperate. But ok there's 2 deals currently signed ....

Israel is an association agreement and clearly not an FTA.

Shipping groups boost Ireland-EU routes ahead of Brexit
Freight hauliers plan to bypass UK ports as concern grows about queues and red tape

Direct routes to continental Europe have the potential to displace some of the busy freight traffic between Ireland and the UK © Bloomberg

Arthur Beesley in Dublin 2 HOURS AGO Print this page3
Shipping companies are ramping up direct freight services between Ireland and continental Europe as the country’s hauliers make plans to bypass British ports after Brexit.

Although Irish hauliers have long used Britain as a gateway to other EU markets, the UK’s impending departure from the EU has prompted concern about long tailbacks and cumbersome customs checks when passing through UK ports.

The preparations come despite the British government’s promises of frictionless trade after Brexit and a planned transition that will mean the UK observing EU rules until 2020.

CLdN, a Luxembourg-based shipping company, has introduced two “mega vessels” on new direct freight routes linking Dublin with the Belgian port of Zeebrugge and the Dutch port of Rotterdam.

“In anticipation of Brexit, the shipping community was looking for alternative solutions . . . seeking a good balance between costs, frequency and lead-time,” CLdN told the Financial Times.

Brittany Ferries will start a new service between Cork on Ireland’s southern coast and the Spanish port of Santander this month.

Meanwhile, Irish Continental Group will boost freight capacity nearly 10-fold between Dublin and the French port of Cherbourg this summer when a new ferry comes into service.

Weekly freight capacity on the route would increase from 120 to 1,155 trucks, although some of that would be reserved for tourist vehicles in the holiday season, the company said.



Direct routes to continental Europe have the potential to displace some of the busy freight traffic between Ireland and the UK, although Ireland’s heavy reliance on trade with Britain means links between the two will continue to be a mainstay.

Irish Continental plans a big increase in capacity on its Dublin-Holyhead service from 2020.

A survey last year found that 57 per cent of Irish exporters could supply EU countries by shipping directly to continental ports, if transit time through the UK increased or costs rose.

Verona Murphy, president of the Irish Road Haulage Association, said businesses feared long delays at UK ports if Theresa May, UK prime minister, proceeded with plans to leave the EU’s customs union and internal market.

“We’ve got three expected checks: customs, the department of agriculture and then immigration. It’s going to be huge. From our perspective it just couldn’t be worse,” she said.

Transit times on direct routes were longer but would offer more certainty over trucking schedules in the event of new checks at UK ports, she said. “You know what time you get on [the direct ferry] and you know what time you get off, and you haven’t left the eurozone, so you get a green light at customs.”


The daily capacity for trucks on routes between Dublin and the Welsh port of Holyhead is about 1,000 each way, according to the Irish Exporters Association. Routes linking Rosslare on Ireland’s south-eastern coast with the Welsh ports of Fishguard and Pembroke together have a daily capacity of 250 each way.

Much of this traffic travels on to continental Europe. Data show that two-thirds of leading Irish exporters shipping to the continent do so via Britain, taking advantage of short sea crossings, extensive UK motorways and ports and the Channel tunnel.

Citing research by the state-owned port of Cork, Brittany Ferries said it was confident of the demand for its Santander service. “It was always our intention to look at a direct route from Ireland to Spain but certainly Brexit has hastened the decision,” it said.

“We have had a great deal of interest from hauliers. However, as they normally follow a late booking pattern, it remains to be seen how that will translate into business,” it said.

Samshark suggested that Brexiteers want to stay in the customs union, and I would say it's obvious that that would be fundamental to the success of Brexit. Losing the EU as a market in which you could preferentially trade will probably impact your economy. Bimbo will disagree, I know, but I would imagine that most sensible people would regard that as quite likely.

However, it's quite clear (to me, if not to Bimbo) that the UK cannot be allowed to continue having "frictionless" trade when it is outside of the European Union if the EU is to survive. Hence the notion of benefiting from membership of the EU (eating the cake) without having to pay subscriptions or abide by the rules (having the cake) is unlikely to be agreed to by the EU negotiators.

bimboman wrote:

Samshark suggested that Brexiteers want to stay in the customs union, and I would say it's obvious that that would be fundamental to the success of Brexit. Losing the EU as a market in which you could preferentially trade will probably impact your economy. Bimbo will disagree, I know, but I would imagine that most sensible people would regard that as quite likely.

However, it's quite clear (to me, if not to Bimbo) that the UK cannot be allowed to continue having "frictionless" trade when it is outside of the European Union if the EU is to survive. Hence the notion of benefiting from membership of the EU (eating the cake) without having to pay subscriptions or abide by the rules (having the cake) is unlikely to be agreed to by the EU negotiators.

You've kind of missed the agreement of an FTA post brexit then ?

merry! wrote: depends on what we agree to really, doesn't it (nothing is agreed until everthing is agreed).

Weekly freight capacity on the route would increase from 120 to 1,155 trucks, although some of that would be reserved for tourist vehicles in the holiday season, the company said.

La soule wrote:

bimboman wrote:

Samshark suggested that Brexiteers want to stay in the customs union, and I would say it's obvious that that would be fundamental to the success of Brexit. Losing the EU as a market in which you could preferentially trade will probably impact your economy. Bimbo will disagree, I know, but I would imagine that most sensible people would regard that as quite likely.

However, it's quite clear (to me, if not to Bimbo) that the UK cannot be allowed to continue having "frictionless" trade when it is outside of the European Union if the EU is to survive. Hence the notion of benefiting from membership of the EU (eating the cake) without having to pay subscriptions or abide by the rules (having the cake) is unlikely to be agreed to by the EU negotiators.

You've kind of missed the agreement of an FTA post brexit then ?

merry! wrote: depends on what we agree to really, doesn't it (nothing is agreed until everthing is agreed).

bimboman wrote:

La soule wrote:

bimboman wrote:

Samshark suggested that Brexiteers want to stay in the customs union, and I would say it's obvious that that would be fundamental to the success of Brexit. Losing the EU as a market in which you could preferentially trade will probably impact your economy. Bimbo will disagree, I know, but I would imagine that most sensible people would regard that as quite likely.

However, it's quite clear (to me, if not to Bimbo) that the UK cannot be allowed to continue having "frictionless" trade when it is outside of the European Union if the EU is to survive. Hence the notion of benefiting from membership of the EU (eating the cake) without having to pay subscriptions or abide by the rules (having the cake) is unlikely to be agreed to by the EU negotiators.

You've kind of missed the agreement of an FTA post brexit then ?

merry! wrote: depends on what we agree to really, doesn't it (nothing is agreed until everthing is agreed).

We'd then have 40 billion to play with for adjustments ....

Rinkals wrote:Samshark suggested that Brexiteers want to stay in the customs union, and I would say it's obvious that that would be fundamental to the success of Brexit. Losing the EU as a market in which you could preferentially trade will probably impact your economy. Bimbo will disagree, I know, but I would imagine that most sensible people would regard that as quite likely.

However, it's quite clear (to me, if not to Bimbo) that the UK cannot be allowed to continue having "frictionless" trade when it is outside of the European Union if the EU is to survive. Hence the notion of benefiting from membership of the EU (eating the cake) without having to pay subscriptions or abide by the rules (having the cake) is unlikely to be agreed to by the EU negotiators.

It has been mentioned numerous times on here that EU needs the UK as a market (for BMW amongst others) and cannot afford to lose that market. Hence the notion that the UK holds the cards in this negotiation. As I said in the post above, I'm not sure that I believe that the latter is strong enough to overcome the former and allow trade which, if not entirely frictionless, is fairly free.

I must say it's disappointing that my simple statement needed this much explanation.