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nardol wrote:You guys will be going to the polls soon.
The EU plan to protect the integrity of their single market is to drive a coach and horses through the UK's single market.bimboman wrote:It's a direct threat to the external borders and land of a nation state , cheer lead away , but it's disgusting and possibly illegal.
Humiliation getting to you?Gospel wrote:EU playing the Irish border for all they can knowing full well that there's no political will in the UK to call their bluff. If 52% of the population wanted to leave the EU when we were full members with a raft of opt outs then how are those 17m people going to react when we're forced into being a vassal state with no say whatsoever over our trade or regulatory framework all because of Franco-German led Eurocrats and Irish vandals? Something of a pyrrhic victory for remainers.
A hard border will accelerate a united Ireland so maybe it would be for the best.
Enough to get the DUP out as puppet masters? Irish issue could be rubber stamped in nanno seconds.bimboman wrote:nardol wrote:You guys will be going to the polls soon.
Tories with a 7 point lead.
It will depend on how the nationalists in NI perceive it that matters, not what you or I think.bimboman wrote:A hard border will accelerate a united Ireland so maybe it would be for the best.
They'll be no hard border on the UK side.
You don't think that a still born Brexit will foster resentment? Do you think the millions of Eurosceptics will just give up at this point and accept being made the EU's bitches? Will our press just stop writing about European directives that impact on our lives but which we have no say in?iarmhiman wrote:GrrrrrrrrrGospel wrote:EU playing the Irish border for all they can knowing full well that there's no political will in the UK to call their bluff. If 52% of the population wanted to leave the EU when we were full members with a raft of opt outs then how are those 17m people going to react when we're forced into being a vassal state with no say whatsoever over our trade or regulatory framework all because of Franco-German led Eurocrats and Irish vandals? Something of a pyrrhic victory for remainers.
paddyor wrote:Humiliation getting to you?Gospel wrote:EU playing the Irish border for all they can knowing full well that there's no political will in the UK to call their bluff. If 52% of the population wanted to leave the EU when we were full members with a raft of opt outs then how are those 17m people going to react when we're forced into being a vassal state with no say whatsoever over our trade or regulatory framework all because of Franco-German led Eurocrats and Irish vandals? Something of a pyrrhic victory for remainers.
Sounds awful for all of us.Gospel wrote:EU playing the Irish border for all they can knowing full well that there's no political will in the UK to call their bluff. If 52% of the population wanted to leave the EU when we were full members with a raft of opt outs then how are those 17m people going to react when we're forced into being a vassal state with no say whatsoever over our trade or regulatory framework all because of Franco-German led Eurocrats and Irish vandals? Something of a pyrrhic victory for remainers.
Gospel wrote:You don't think that a still born Brexit will foster resentment? Do you think the millions of Eurosceptics will just give up at this point and accept being made the EU's bitches? Will our press just stop writing about European directives that impact on our lives but which we have no say in?iarmhiman wrote:GrrrrrrrrrGospel wrote:EU playing the Irish border for all they can knowing full well that there's no political will in the UK to call their bluff. If 52% of the population wanted to leave the EU when we were full members with a raft of opt outs then how are those 17m people going to react when we're forced into being a vassal state with no say whatsoever over our trade or regulatory framework all because of Franco-German led Eurocrats and Irish vandals? Something of a pyrrhic victory for remainers.
iarmhiman wrote:It will depend on how the nationalists in NI perceive it that matters, not what you or I think.bimboman wrote:A hard border will accelerate a united Ireland so maybe it would be for the best.
They'll be no hard border on the UK side.
Not me personally - but for millions of leave voters this does matter. I would harbour a guess that they care even more about leaving the EU than remainers are for keeping us in the club and look how hard they've been fighting to overturn the referendum result. Brexit isn't a one time deal anymore than Scottish independence is. To quote Boris it's all about the destination so anything agreed that doesn't equate to a full return of sovereignty will be fought over tooth and nail for the foreseeable.paddyor wrote:Humiliation getting to you?Gospel wrote:EU playing the Irish border for all they can knowing full well that there's no political will in the UK to call their bluff. If 52% of the population wanted to leave the EU when we were full members with a raft of opt outs then how are those 17m people going to react when we're forced into being a vassal state with no say whatsoever over our trade or regulatory framework all because of Franco-German led Eurocrats and Irish vandals? Something of a pyrrhic victory for remainers.
I care. They will want a United Ireland and their weight of support will make a border poll very close and push the result possibly towards a United Ireland.bimboman wrote:iarmhiman wrote:It will depend on how the nationalists in NI perceive it that matters, not what you or I think.bimboman wrote:A hard border will accelerate a united Ireland so maybe it would be for the best.
They'll be no hard border on the UK side.
Who cares what they think. As pointed out before some of this attitude will only galvanise previously ambiguous views in the UK.
iarmhiman wrote:Gospel wrote:You don't think that a still born Brexit will foster resentment? Do you think the millions of Eurosceptics will just give up at this point and accept being made the EU's bitches? Will our press just stop writing about European directives that impact on our lives but which we have no say in?iarmhiman wrote:GrrrrrrrrrGospel wrote:EU playing the Irish border for all they can knowing full well that there's no political will in the UK to call their bluff. If 52% of the population wanted to leave the EU when we were full members with a raft of opt outs then how are those 17m people going to react when we're forced into being a vassal state with no say whatsoever over our trade or regulatory framework all because of Franco-German led Eurocrats and Irish vandals? Something of a pyrrhic victory for remainers.
I know it will. I'm from the country that knows what it has been like to have been f**ked over by the bigger country to the east.
Now you will know where the chippyness comes from, you're about to become that as well.
I'm not. I'm comparing resentment which was Gospel's point.bimboman wrote:iarmhiman wrote:Gospel wrote:You don't think that a still born Brexit will foster resentment? Do you think the millions of Eurosceptics will just give up at this point and accept being made the EU's bitches? Will our press just stop writing about European directives that impact on our lives but which we have no say in?iarmhiman wrote:GrrrrrrrrrGospel wrote:EU playing the Irish border for all they can knowing full well that there's no political will in the UK to call their bluff. If 52% of the population wanted to leave the EU when we were full members with a raft of opt outs then how are those 17m people going to react when we're forced into being a vassal state with no say whatsoever over our trade or regulatory framework all because of Franco-German led Eurocrats and Irish vandals? Something of a pyrrhic victory for remainers.
I know it will. I'm from the country that knows what it has been like to have been f**ked over by the bigger country to the east.
Now you will know where the chippyness comes from, you're about to become that as well.
Oh dear. I reckon we will pull up out massive economic breaches, use the power of the city massive soft power and compete. You're hilarious though comparing it to Ireland.
I think the EU will get the result they want because there's not a politician in the UK who would want to be responsible for a no-deal scenario. Eurocrats have the benefit of not being held accountable.croyals wrote:There's two endgames to Barnier's strategy - one is the UK essentially retains a superficial status quo - well within the EU's orbit and its systems but outside of the political sphere, a clear EU win, and the other is the hardest of brexit with talks collapsing. Have to say with a country whose mind hasn't changed and a minority government, I know which I'd be sticking my money on. Often said that the UK doesn't understand the EU, with justification, but I think the same is true in reverse. The EU's views on what is happening in the UK are dominated by what they read in the FT and what they hear from their europhile colleagues.
Why are we just letting all this happen to us because of a single vote that has been hijacked and re-interpreted in so many different ways.Gospel wrote:Not me personally - but for millions of leave voters this does matter. I would harbour a guess that they care even more about leaving the EU than remainers are for keeping us in the club and look how hard they've been fighting to overturn the referendum result. Brexit isn't a one time deal anymore than Scottish independence is. To quote Boris it's all about the destination so anything agreed that doesn't equate to a full return of sovereignty will be fought over tooth and nail for the foreseeable.paddyor wrote:Humiliation getting to you?Gospel wrote:EU playing the Irish border for all they can knowing full well that there's no political will in the UK to call their bluff. If 52% of the population wanted to leave the EU when we were full members with a raft of opt outs then how are those 17m people going to react when we're forced into being a vassal state with no say whatsoever over our trade or regulatory framework all because of Franco-German led Eurocrats and Irish vandals? Something of a pyrrhic victory for remainers.
If it makes me not a democrat then I don't care: I don't see why we have to swallow the consequences of one man's arrogance in trying to settle party divisions and kill off UKIP.iarmhiman wrote:If the other EU countries with Eurosceptic governments had a referendum on membership, you can be dead sure it wouldn't be a binary in/out choice.
The country voted for Brexit. Only you and yours are in denial for what that means. Had the Scots voted for independence do you think Unionists would have been able to call the whole thing off because they deemed it a binary choice on a hugely complex matter?SamShark wrote:Why are we just letting all this happen to us because of a single vote that has been hijacked and re-interpreted in so many different ways.Gospel wrote:Not me personally - but for millions of leave voters this does matter. I would harbour a guess that they care even more about leaving the EU than remainers are for keeping us in the club and look how hard they've been fighting to overturn the referendum result. Brexit isn't a one time deal anymore than Scottish independence is. To quote Boris it's all about the destination so anything agreed that doesn't equate to a full return of sovereignty will be fought over tooth and nail for the foreseeable.paddyor wrote:Humiliation getting to you?Gospel wrote:EU playing the Irish border for all they can knowing full well that there's no political will in the UK to call their bluff. If 52% of the population wanted to leave the EU when we were full members with a raft of opt outs then how are those 17m people going to react when we're forced into being a vassal state with no say whatsoever over our trade or regulatory framework all because of Franco-German led Eurocrats and Irish vandals? Something of a pyrrhic victory for remainers.
Will we ever admit that a referendum (for Tory party management) with a binary choice on a hugely complex matter was flawed.
If we've reached a point where it's clear that the only options on the table are a very clean Brexit or remaining then that's the choice to put to the people.
No more clap trap about "no hard border" or having the same friction-less trade with the EU.
Voting in was a binary choice.iarmhiman wrote:If the other EU countries with Eurosceptic governments had a referendum on membership, you can be dead sure it wouldn't be a binary in/out choice.
I care. They will want a United Ireland and their weight of support will make a border poll very close and push the result possibly towards a United Ireland.
Win win. You lot can do what you like and we can do what we like.
, we are your largest market. A gateway for your goods. The idea that you can successfully by pass that for a German replacement is hilarious.Also a mistake. The people didn't fully know what they were getting into either.Gospel wrote:Voting in was a binary choice.iarmhiman wrote:If the other EU countries with Eurosceptic governments had a referendum on membership, you can be dead sure it wouldn't be a binary in/out choice.
The country voted for Brexit and you say we could get "a vassal state with no say whatsoever over our trade or regulatory framework" which won't be the end of it.Gospel wrote:The country voted for Brexit. Only you and yours are in denial for what that means. Had the Scots voted for independence do you think Unionists would have been able to call the whole thing off because they deemed it a binary choice on a hugely complex matter?SamShark wrote:Why are we just letting all this happen to us because of a single vote that has been hijacked and re-interpreted in so many different ways.Gospel wrote:Not me personally - but for millions of leave voters this does matter. I would harbour a guess that they care even more about leaving the EU than remainers are for keeping us in the club and look how hard they've been fighting to overturn the referendum result. Brexit isn't a one time deal anymore than Scottish independence is. To quote Boris it's all about the destination so anything agreed that doesn't equate to a full return of sovereignty will be fought over tooth and nail for the foreseeable.paddyor wrote:Humiliation getting to you?Gospel wrote:EU playing the Irish border for all they can knowing full well that there's no political will in the UK to call their bluff. If 52% of the population wanted to leave the EU when we were full members with a raft of opt outs then how are those 17m people going to react when we're forced into being a vassal state with no say whatsoever over our trade or regulatory framework all because of Franco-German led Eurocrats and Irish vandals? Something of a pyrrhic victory for remainers.
Will we ever admit that a referendum (for Tory party management) with a binary choice on a hugely complex matter was flawed.
If we've reached a point where it's clear that the only options on the table are a very clean Brexit or remaining then that's the choice to put to the people.
No more clap trap about "no hard border" or having the same friction-less trade with the EU.
Is that another "know your place" post from an Englishman? And you wonder why you lot are unpopular?bimboman wrote:I care. They will want a United Ireland and their weight of support will make a border poll very close and push the result possibly towards a United Ireland.
Win win. You lot can do what you like and we can do what we like.
What do you reckon they'd ask ?iarmhiman wrote:If the other EU countries with Eurosceptic governments had a referendum on membership, you can be dead sure it wouldn't be a binary in/out choice.
Not in French nocroyals wrote:https://twitter.com/TomMcTague/status/1 ... 8626610176
I haven't studied French in a while but I assume 'misspoke' means 'massively overbid position and told to backtrack'.
No, there were leavers and liberal leavers with the Norway option being one example touted. Claiming otherwise changes this not a jot.Gospel wrote:Voting in was a binary choice.iarmhiman wrote:If the other EU countries with Eurosceptic governments had a referendum on membership, you can be dead sure it wouldn't be a binary in/out choice.
iarmhiman wrote:Is that another "know your place" post from an Englishman? And you wonder why you lot are unpopular?bimboman wrote:I care. They will want a United Ireland and their weight of support will make a border poll very close and push the result possibly towards a United Ireland.
Win win. You lot can do what you like and we can do what we like.
You'd better hope Junker tones down on the trade war then.Our largest market is actually the USA.
Evidently you personally. You can't talk about blackmail, betrayal or being forced into being a vassal state(Gospel wrote:Not me personally - but for millions of leave voters this does matter. I would harbour a guess that they care even more about leaving the EU than remainers are for keeping us in the club and look how hard they've been fighting to overturn the referendum result. Brexit isn't a one time deal anymore than Scottish independence is. To quote Boris it's all about the destination so anything agreed that doesn't equate to a full return of sovereignty will be fought over tooth and nail for the foreseeable.paddyor wrote:Humiliation getting to you?Gospel wrote:EU playing the Irish border for all they can knowing full well that there's no political will in the UK to call their bluff. If 52% of the population wanted to leave the EU when we were full members with a raft of opt outs then how are those 17m people going to react when we're forced into being a vassal state with no say whatsoever over our trade or regulatory framework all because of Franco-German led Eurocrats and Irish vandals? Something of a pyrrhic victory for remainers.
) and not feel you've been humiliated. It's fairly obvious like.Think the US is bigger, but look if this helps you cope with things then work away.bimboman wrote:iarmhiman wrote:Is that another "know your place" post from an Englishman? And you wonder why you lot are unpopular?bimboman wrote:I care. They will want a United Ireland and their weight of support will make a border poll very close and push the result possibly towards a United Ireland.
Win win. You lot can do what you like and we can do what we like.
Just the reality of the situation. Brexit will eventually be over, economic cycles will start again. Good luck
Good luck to you too Bimbo. Hopefully you will not fall too far from that 6th position in the ranking you are just about holding...bimboman wrote:iarmhiman wrote:Is that another "know your place" post from an Englishman? And you wonder why you lot are unpopular?bimboman wrote:I care. They will want a United Ireland and their weight of support will make a border poll very close and push the result possibly towards a United Ireland.
Win win. You lot can do what you like and we can do what we like.
Just the reality of the situation. Brexit will eventually be over, economic cycles will start again. Good luck
When the next Euro crisis occurs we will jump back to 5th....Good luck to you too Bimbo. Hopefully you will not fall too far from that 6th position in the ranking you are just about holding...
I admire your optimism. We all do.bimboman wrote:When the next Euro crisis occurs we will jump back to 5th....Good luck to you too Bimbo. Hopefully you will not fall too far from that 6th position in the ranking you are just about holding...
Poor France.
6th and falling......bimboman wrote:When the next Euro crisis occurs we will jump back to 5th....Good luck to you too Bimbo. Hopefully you will not fall too far from that 6th position in the ranking you are just about holding...
Poor France.