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Whether you can or can't actually vote IRL, In, or Out
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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 6:36 pm 
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sewa wrote:
Before you link them let's see Bimbos wonder camera that inspects the inside of truck trailers



Something Ive of course not claimed in any way. As you're back I'll ask again, How are the inside of trucks being currently inspected on the Irish border ?


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 7:00 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
sewa wrote:
No, I am saying quite clearly that members of the club get special treatment. People outside the club are treated much less favourably. There are popular kids and loners. It will be like your school days all over again



You can’t answer how the Irish border is currently controlled for VAT or Duty can you ?


It is currently handled within the framework of the single market.
When UK leaves that framework, a new structure is required. for NI, it is agreed must work within the GFA framework.
For NL/France/Spain, it is possible a different framework without reference to NI/GFA can exist.
When you leave though, it is pointless using the ports of Hamburg, or Rotterdam as examples. the Russian or Turkish border are more relevent.


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 7:02 pm 
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Leinster in London wrote:
bimboman wrote:
sewa wrote:
No, I am saying quite clearly that members of the club get special treatment. People outside the club are treated much less favourably. There are popular kids and loners. It will be like your school days all over again



You can’t answer how the Irish border is currently controlled for VAT or Duty can you ?


It is currently handled within the framework of the single market.
When UK leaves that framework, a new structure is required. for NI, it is agreed must work within the GFA framework.
For NL/France/Spain, it is possible a different framework without reference to NI/GFA can exist.
When you leave though, it is pointless using the ports of Hamburg, or Rotterdam as examples. the Russian or Turkish border are more relevent.



How does it physically work ? "Framework " isn't relevant to my question in anyway. What on earth are you blithering on about Russia or Turkey? You think there's differant rules being containers on truck rather than ships ?


Last edited by bimboman on Wed May 16, 2018 7:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 7:03 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
sewa wrote:
Before you link them let's see Bimbos wonder camera that inspects the inside of truck trailers



Something Ive of course not claimed in any way. As you're back I'll ask again, How are the inside of trucks being currently inspected on the Irish border ?

You said the technology already exists and then when pressed the best you could come up with was a camera. No thanks mate. We will hire extra staff to check British trucks. We don't want a reverse calais happening


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 7:06 pm 
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sewa wrote:
bimboman wrote:
sewa wrote:
Before you link them let's see Bimbos wonder camera that inspects the inside of truck trailers



Something Ive of course not claimed in any way. As you're back I'll ask again, How are the inside of trucks being currently inspected on the Irish border ?

You said the technology already exists and then when pressed the best you could come up with was a camera. No thanks mate. We will hire extra staff to check British trucks. We don't want a reverse calais happening



What? How do the current border checks occur?

Also I said cameras and a trusted trader scheme not just Cameras.


There seems to be Two things you're unable to get the slightest mental grip on ; there's currently border checks between NI and the south and it already uses lots of technology.


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 7:18 pm 
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sewa wrote:
bimboman wrote:
sewa wrote:
Before you link them let's see Bimbos wonder camera that inspects the inside of truck trailers



Something Ive of course not claimed in any way. As you're back I'll ask again, How are the inside of trucks being currently inspected on the Irish border ?

You said the technology already exists and then when pressed the best you could come up with was a camera. No thanks mate. We will hire extra staff to check British trucks. We don't want a reverse calais happening



“You” won’t be able to afford to hire extra hands sans the UK’s £8bn nett contribution...


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 7:28 pm 
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sewa wrote:
bimboman wrote:
sewa wrote:
Before you link them let's see Bimbos wonder camera that inspects the inside of truck trailers



Something Ive of course not claimed in any way. As you're back I'll ask again, How are the inside of trucks being currently inspected on the Irish border ?

You said the technology already exists and then when pressed the best you could come up with was a camera. No thanks mate. We will hire extra staff to check British trucks. We don't want a reverse calais happening


“We’ll build a wall and you’ll pay for it”


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 8:26 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
Leinster in London wrote:
bimboman wrote:
sewa wrote:
No, I am saying quite clearly that members of the club get special treatment. People outside the club are treated much less favourably. There are popular kids and loners. It will be like your school days all over again



You can’t answer how the Irish border is currently controlled for VAT or Duty can you ?


It is currently handled within the framework of the single market.
When UK leaves that framework, a new structure is required. for NI, it is agreed must work within the GFA framework.
For NL/France/Spain, it is possible a different framework without reference to NI/GFA can exist.
When you leave though, it is pointless using the ports of Hamburg, or Rotterdam as examples. the Russian or Turkish border are more relevent.



How does it physically work ? "Framework " isn't relevant to my question in anyway. What on earth are you blithering on about Russia or Turkey? You think there's differant rules being containers on truck rather than ships ?

It's already happening mate.

Quote:
Dublin Port to build customs checks ahead of expected ‘hard Brexit’
Facility will apply for planning permission to put new infrastructure in place for next year
Wed, Feb 14, 2018, 17:19
Colin Gleeson, Tim O'Brien

Dublin Port is expecting a hard Brexit and will apply for planning permission to construct the new infrastructure it expects will be required to deal with additional customs checks from next year, according to its chief executive.

Cargo volumes at the port hit a new record in 2017 as 36.4 million tonnes passed through the facility. Some stakeholders have suggested that additional checks at the port in the event of the UK leaving the customs union could lead to 9km tailbacks outside.

Dublin Port chief executive Eamonn O’Reilly said on Wednesday he could not wait for political solutions, and was planning for the UK’s exit from both the European single market and the customs union.

“Our view always was that the British government has clearly said they are leaving the customs union and the single European market,” he told The Irish Times. “We’ve taken that as our starting point here in Dublin Port. We have to be ready for March 2019.

“The second point is that there was clearly a lot of uncertainty around the land border. Some clarity came in December. From our point of view, it became clear that the sea border remains a different matter.

“We have to put in place border controls that are required by various State agencies. We’ve been in discussions with the Office of Public Works (OPW). All of the State agencies now understand what they require in Dublin Port.”

Mr O’Reilly said the port hosted the first of three workshops with stakeholders on February 1st. The meeting was attended by the OPW, customs officials, the Garda, the Department of Agriculture and Food, the HSE, all of the shipping lines and a group of the “large hauliers”.

Same template
Mr O’Reilly said all were working from “the same template” in terms of preparations, and that the necessary infrastructure required by each would be signed off by the end of March.


“We will then apply for planning permission and we will construct what is needed,” he said. “This is not huge engineering, but it has to be there. What we need to put in will cost us in the single millions.

“We’re talking booths the trucks will drive by, canopies, inspection areas, sheds where goods can be taken out and inspected. It’s the sort of stuff that would have been here in the early 90s before the single market came in.

“The extra bits that are needed in terms of border controls are all down to systems and processes and those already exist in Dublin Port.”

Some 1.3 million freight units – or containers – pass through the port each year, with 200,000 of those coming from outside the EU. Mr O’Reilly said this figure would jump to 1 million in March 2019 when the UK leaves the bloc.

“The 200,000 units go through three container terminals at the moment,” he said. “The new units will go through four other terminals. Without doubt, there will have to be additional customs inspectors. There is extra administration required.

“It will increase the amount of overheads within the system. That’s the nature of border controls. It’s the opposite side to the benefits of when the single European market was set up.”

However, Mr O’Reilly said he was sure the port would still run smoothly in spite of the additional checks.

“I’m very confident we will have all the infrastructure, systems and processes in place to keep UK trade moving through the port efficiently once the clock goes to midnight in March,” he said.

“We won’t be seeing the 9km queues the British and Irish Chamber suggested. It’s an irritant for us necessitated by the decision of the UK to leave the EU, and it’s the last thing we wanted to have to do, but we will be ready.”


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 8:51 pm 
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Quote:
“We will then apply for planning permission and we will construct what is needed,” he said. “This is not huge engineering, but it has to be there. What we need to put in will cost us in the single millions.

“We’re talking booths the trucks will drive by, canopies, inspection areas, sheds where goods can be taken out and inspected. It’s the sort of stuff that would have been here in the early 90s before the single market came i


So a shed to go with the big boat ?

Seriously you're a hoot.

Anyway, nothing to do with current methodology at all.

Quote:
Cargo volumes at the port hit a new record in 2017 as 36.4 million tonnes passed through the facility. Some stakeholders have suggested that additional checks at the port in the event of the UK leaving the customs union could lead to 9km tailbacks outside


Why would your exports. Need to go through a customs facility on the way out ? 36 million is through put a total of import and exports. You do not import 1000000 TEU in total so how can that be the new post brexit amount?


http://www.dublinport.ie/wp-content/upl ... 4-2017.pdf

Where the 9km of queues ?


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 9:17 pm 
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To put some context on the "shed" , ABP have exercised and bought 2 bln quids worth of land around Britains main ports expecting a trading boom.


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 9:30 pm 
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Once again we must bow to Bimbos intimate knowledge of logistics.

This is the second time he has claimed to more about the General Manager of Dublin Ports job than he does himself.

It's such a waste he's restricted to timetabling lorries.


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PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2018 9:33 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
To put some context on the "shed" , ABP have exercised and bought 2 bln quids worth of land around Britains main ports expecting a trading boom.

And you think Eamonn O'Reilly doesn't know how much UK originated trade comes through his port?

You're a hoot Bimbo.


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 12:56 am 
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bimboman wrote:
sewa wrote:
Before you link them let's see Bimbos wonder camera that inspects the inside of truck trailers



Something Ive of course not claimed in any way. As you're back I'll ask again, How are the inside of trucks being currently inspected on the Irish border ?


Some fella called Bimbo suggested on the Potus thread that it was ok to shoot anyone who comes near a border.
Maybe that would work.


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 6:58 am 
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Can’t believe we’re back to the big boat.


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 8:52 am 
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camroc1 wrote:
Once again we must bow to Bimbos intimate knowledge of logistics.

This is the second time he has claimed to more about the General Manager of Dublin Ports job than he does himself.

It's such a waste he's restricted to timetabling lorries.


Well he did have a big job before but he is on a career break


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 9:34 am 
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camroc1 wrote:
Once again we must bow to Bimbos intimate knowledge of logistics.

This is the second time he has claimed to more about the General Manager of Dublin Ports job than he does himself.

It's such a waste he's restricted to timetabling lorries.



Ive claimed no such thing , I know more than the author of that article because I read the LINK to the Dublin port authority and I know what "throughput" means.

Enjoy your big shed.

Oh and logic would dictate it to be unnesscary if land bridge traffic was being replaced by direct continental imports.


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 9:39 am 
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camroc1 wrote:
bimboman wrote:
To put some context on the "shed" , ABP have exercised and bought 2 bln quids worth of land around Britains main ports expecting a trading boom.

And you think Eamonn O'Reilly doesn't know how much UK originated trade comes through his port?

You're a hoot Bimbo.



Again not something I've claimed , you're just making stuff up.


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 9:40 am 
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sewa wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
Once again we must bow to Bimbos intimate knowledge of logistics.

This is the second time he has claimed to more about the General Manager of Dublin Ports job than he does himself.

It's such a waste he's restricted to timetabling lorries.


Well he did have a big job before but he is on a career break



He's irked again.

Now can you tell is how the NI / Irish border currently check the trucks crossing it daily ? This seems to be a question you've avoided ...


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 9:48 am 
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DragsterDriver wrote:
Can’t believe we’re back to the big boat.

Together with the ad hominem.


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 9:57 am 
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Gospel wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
Can’t believe we’re back to the big boat.

Together with the ad hominem.



I did post a helpful link to the port authorities own figures to explain my point. I'm still confused why goods leaving Ireland (9 km queues ?) would require a customs Shed.


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 10:15 am 
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Gospel wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
Can’t believe we’re back to the big boat.

Together with the ad hominem.


He is probably getting the Return on investment he deserves on this one.


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 10:33 am 
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La soule wrote:
Gospel wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
Can’t believe we’re back to the big boat.

Together with the ad hominem.


He is probably getting the Return on investment he deserves on this one.



Did you read the helpful link and spot the articles many errors ?


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 10:37 am 
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La soule wrote:
Gospel wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
Can’t believe we’re back to the big boat.

Together with the ad hominem.


He is probably getting the Return on investment he deserves on this one.

About as accurate as the rest of your posts on this thread.


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 10:39 am 
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DragsterDriver wrote:
Can’t believe we’re back to the big boat.


Any idea of how many jobs will be lost in the Irish trucking industry? I assume goods are loaded on the ferry and then collected by continental hauliers


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 10:44 am 
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Mick Mannock wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
Can’t believe we’re back to the big boat.


Any idea of how many jobs will be lost in the Irish trucking industry? I assume goods are loaded on the ferry and then collected by continental hauliers



No, it's Roll on roll off so the truck goes with the driver normally as the boat time takes a driver off the tacko too. In this case though they may not want drivers off tacko for a whole 24 hours listening to Jane macdonnald sing.


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 10:44 am 
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Mick Mannock wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
Can’t believe we’re back to the big boat.


Any idea of how many jobs will be lost in the Irish trucking industry? I assume goods are loaded on the ferry and then collected by continental hauliers


I don't know much about logistics, unlike many of the oracles here but I would have thought that goods are loaded on container ships and trucks are loaded on ferries..


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 10:50 am 
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The Sun God wrote:
Mick Mannock wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
Can’t believe we’re back to the big boat.


Any idea of how many jobs will be lost in the Irish trucking industry? I assume goods are loaded on the ferry and then collected by continental hauliers


I don't know much about logistics, unlike many of the oracles here but I would have thought that goods are loaded on container ships and trucks are loaded on ferries..



Goods in containers on trucks go on ferries ?


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 10:57 am 
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Gospel wrote:
La soule wrote:
Gospel wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
Can’t believe we’re back to the big boat.

Together with the ad hominem.


He is probably getting the Return on investment he deserves on this one.

About as accurate as the rest of your posts on this thread.



Well, he has been rude to everyone not agreeing with him for the best part of 1721 pages now.

I am not surprised this would wash over your head, a bit like Brexit really.


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 11:16 am 
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The Sun God wrote:
Mick Mannock wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
Can’t believe we’re back to the big boat.


Any idea of how many jobs will be lost in the Irish trucking industry? I assume goods are loaded on the ferry and then collected by continental hauliers


I don't know much about logistics, unlike many of the oracles here but I would have thought that goods are loaded on container ships and trucks are loaded on ferries..


I have no idea, I’d have to defer to Sewa on customs etc.

But if there are 9km queues-

Image


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 12:18 pm 
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The article says specifically that there won´t be 9km queues, can you even read? What there will be is inspection sheds where our customs officers tear apart deliveries of expensive goods from the Uk and then chuck them back into the truck in pieces. Obviously it won´t be possible for every truck so we should target the highest value goods


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 12:39 pm 
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https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2018/0517/964061-motor-insurance-investigation/

What have the EU ever down for us, hopefully this racket get sued sideways


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 12:42 pm 
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sewa wrote:
The article says specifically that there won´t be 9km queues, can you even read? What there will be is inspection sheds where our customs officers tear apart deliveries of expensive goods from the Uk and then chuck them back into the truck in pieces. Obviously it won´t be possible for every truck so we should target the highest value goods



Wow.


How about that NI/ Ireland border today? How's that working?


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 12:57 pm 
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https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/may/17/leo-varadkar-theresa-may-sofia-brexit-deal

Varadkar said: “We need to have that backstop because that gives us the assurance that there will be no hard border on our island. So we stand by our position that there can be no withdrawal agreement without that backstop.

“If the UK wants to put forward alternatives … we’re willing to examine that. But we need to see it written down in black and white and know that its workable and legally operable. And we’ve yet to see anything that remotely approaches that.”


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 12:59 pm 
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sewa wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/may/17/leo-varadkar-theresa-may-sofia-brexit-deal

Varadkar said: “We need to have that backstop because that gives us the assurance that there will be no hard border on our island. So we stand by our position that there can be no withdrawal agreement without that backstop.

“If the UK wants to put forward alternatives … we’re willing to examine that. But we need to see it written down in black and white and know that its workable and legally operable. And we’ve yet to see anything that remotely approaches that.”



If only we could make advances on the current border procedures, what are they?


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 1:24 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
sewa wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/may/17/leo-varadkar-theresa-may-sofia-brexit-deal

Varadkar said: “We need to have that backstop because that gives us the assurance that there will be no hard border on our island. So we stand by our position that there can be no withdrawal agreement without that backstop.

“If the UK wants to put forward alternatives … we’re willing to examine that. But we need to see it written down in black and white and know that its workable and legally operable. And we’ve yet to see anything that remotely approaches that.”



If only we could make advances on the current border procedures, what are they?


None.


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 1:28 pm 
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Leinster in London wrote:
bimboman wrote:
sewa wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/may/17/leo-varadkar-theresa-may-sofia-brexit-deal

Varadkar said: “We need to have that backstop because that gives us the assurance that there will be no hard border on our island. So we stand by our position that there can be no withdrawal agreement without that backstop.

“If the UK wants to put forward alternatives … we’re willing to examine that. But we need to see it written down in black and white and know that its workable and legally operable. And we’ve yet to see anything that remotely approaches that.”



If only we could make advances on the current border procedures, what are they?


None.


I´ve given up explaining why to him, there is no point


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 2:03 pm 
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Leinster in London wrote:
bimboman wrote:
sewa wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/may/17/leo-varadkar-theresa-may-sofia-brexit-deal

Varadkar said: “We need to have that backstop because that gives us the assurance that there will be no hard border on our island. So we stand by our position that there can be no withdrawal agreement without that backstop.

“If the UK wants to put forward alternatives … we’re willing to examine that. But we need to see it written down in black and white and know that its workable and legally operable. And we’ve yet to see anything that remotely approaches that.”



If only we could make advances on the current border procedures, what are they?


None.



Really ? , vat , duty and contraband have no regulation either side of the border ? Is that true ?


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 2:04 pm 
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sewa wrote:
Leinster in London wrote:
bimboman wrote:
sewa wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/may/17/leo-varadkar-theresa-may-sofia-brexit-deal

Varadkar said: “We need to have that backstop because that gives us the assurance that there will be no hard border on our island. So we stand by our position that there can be no withdrawal agreement without that backstop.

“If the UK wants to put forward alternatives … we’re willing to examine that. But we need to see it written down in black and white and know that its workable and legally operable. And we’ve yet to see anything that remotely approaches that.”



If only we could make advances on the current border procedures, what are they?


None.


I´ve given up explaining why to him, there is no point




Can you explain how the border is currently committed and goods crossing it are processed for VAT and Duty ?


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 2:18 pm 
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Gospel wrote:
shereblue wrote:
The UK has been outsourcing its trade policy to the EU for the last 45 years. It would have less influence out of the EU but that would be up for negotiation. The simple application of the Brexitists' own German Car Industry argument hardly means we would suddenly become without influence. Apparently, UK influence now vanishes in a puff of smoke as the UK suddenly becomes a "vassal state". Something not seen in Europe since the days of the Ottoman Empire.

As I have commented, it would be interesting to see comparative outcome modelling.

No we've been pooling our trade policy for the last 45 years. That all changed when we resigned our membership. Now we have to choose between making our own decisions for trade or having a hostile [not in our best interests] foreign power do it for us. You're an absolute fool if you think we'd have any influence - had that been the case we'd still be members.


The "German Car Industry" influence argument was put forward by Leavers. My proposition is consistent with the Leavers argument. We would have less influence rather than none. You really don't tolerate nuance.

The central point I raise is whether - compared to the proven Single Market and Customs Union - the reality of negotiating, implementing, adapting to and managing scores of trade deals will ever produce a net economic benefit to the UK as a whole? If we can have it as "extra" (cake and eat it) then yes, great. Otherwise, in the absence of any "comparative" modelling, the net benefits of Fox's trade deals seem to be an "article of faith". I use my language kindly.

For example, I read in today's Times that President Trump plans to use post Brexit trade talks to force the NHS to pay more for prescription charges in an attempt to lower prescription charges for American patients. He is angry that single payer systems like the NHS use their bargaining power and scale to get better deals on drugs than the US's multiple private health insurance companies. The 350m./week for the NHS will come in handy there.

Bimbo, I quite accept that such an outcome would be in line with your openly libertarian thinking. It's the covert libertarians manipulating and then shielding behind the "will of the people" who cause division.


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 2:34 pm 
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Quote:
The central point I raise is whether - compared to the proven Single Market and Customs Union - the reality of negotiating, implementing, adapting to and managing scores of trade deals will ever produce a net economic benefit to the UK as a whole? If we can have it as "extra" (cake and eat it) then yes, great. Otherwise, in the absence of any "comparative" modelling, the net benefits of Fox's trade deals seem to be an "article of faith". I use my language kindly.


We already conduct more trade outside the EU (and rising) than in the EU ( and falling) , they'll be trade post brexit.


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