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Whether you can or can't actually vote IRL, In, or Out
In 60%  60%  [ 248 ]
Out 40%  40%  [ 167 ]
Total votes : 415
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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 1:39 pm 
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Gospel wrote:
bimboman wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
And the EU is going to tell May that she either stays in both the customs union and single market until a solution the Irish border is found or negotiations cease.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/the-eu-te ... eal-2018-5



It's an outcome that will eventually be very dangerous for the UK and eventually Europe. If negotiations cease then we still leave both though next year so it's a silly threat.

The EU were tin-eared to Cameron's pleas as they were so damn sure we'd vote to remain. They've learned nothing from that experience. Once again they are betting everything on the UK bending to their demands because the alternative is unthinkable - the UK crashing out without a deal.



It's worse than that, May who is a remainer has bottled every stage and by design to keep us in. She knows she won't lead beyond this parliament so has nothing to lose personally, I thought that would help but she's a gutless Blairite.

My point about the danger is us not leaving, both for Europe where future governments will f uck then every time there's a crisis as they'll be no popular support to help, and worse in the UK where voters who felt disenfranchised will be proved right in that feeling and eventually become far more extreme.


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 1:40 pm 
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Gospel wrote:
bimboman wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
And the EU is going to tell May that she either stays in both the customs union and single market until a solution the Irish border is found or negotiations cease.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/the-eu-te ... eal-2018-5



It's an outcome that will eventually be very dangerous for the UK and eventually Europe. If negotiations cease then we still leave both though next year so it's a silly threat.

The EU were tin-eared to Cameron's pleas as they were so damn sure we'd vote to remain. They've learned nothing from that experience. Once again they are betting everything on the UK bending to their demands because the alternative is unthinkable - the UK crashing out without a deal.


There is a limit to Europe a la carte.

It cant be that hard to understand.


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 1:42 pm 
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Gospel wrote:
bimboman wrote:
May has f ucked this up so badly, but I hope it means we avoid Corbyn led governemnt and eventually we get to leave.

I do wonder what kind of Brexit May would have forced through had she a big enough majority. The issues over the Irish border wouldn't be any different for example.



We should have prepared form no deal absolutely from day one, told the EU exactly what the deal we wanted was and left them to it. May is a remainer, parliament is remain and the Lords are remain, we will not leave.


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 1:44 pm 
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DragsterDriver wrote:
I see that Italian thing now- a coalition of eurosceptics?


Indeed, they want some re-negotiations on Public debt. They want to increase their GNP more than inflicting more austerity to meet the 3%.

No talk (for now) of getting out the Euro.


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 1:45 pm 
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This was always likely to wind up in either hard Brexit or Norway. Pluses and minuses to either.

But it takes special political talent to construct laboriously a position that combines all the minuses of both.


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 1:46 pm 
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zzzz wrote:
This was always likely to wind up in either hard Brexit or Norway. Pluses and minuses to either.

But it takes special political talent to construct laboriously a position that combines all the minuses of both.



IT certainly seems that is the design though , so we are all relieved by Norway and forget about leaving. Of course I'm crediting May with far too much nouse, the civil servants leading are creating this.


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 2:28 pm 
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La soule wrote:
Gospel wrote:
bimboman wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
And the EU is going to tell May that she either stays in both the customs union and single market until a solution the Irish border is found or negotiations cease.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/the-eu-te ... eal-2018-5



It's an outcome that will eventually be very dangerous for the UK and eventually Europe. If negotiations cease then we still leave both though next year so it's a silly threat.

The EU were tin-eared to Cameron's pleas as they were so damn sure we'd vote to remain. They've learned nothing from that experience. Once again they are betting everything on the UK bending to their demands because the alternative is unthinkable - the UK crashing out without a deal.


There is a limit to Europe a la carte.

It cant be that hard to understand.

The EU's own guidelines talk of an imaginative and flexible approach to the Irish border but they're insisting on their way or bust. The latter will cause enormous harm to everyone. The last time they played take it or leave it with the UK we know what happened.


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 2:35 pm 
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Gospel wrote:
La soule wrote:
Gospel wrote:
bimboman wrote:
camroc1 wrote:
And the EU is going to tell May that she either stays in both the customs union and single market until a solution the Irish border is found or negotiations cease.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/the-eu-te ... eal-2018-5



It's an outcome that will eventually be very dangerous for the UK and eventually Europe. If negotiations cease then we still leave both though next year so it's a silly threat.

The EU were tin-eared to Cameron's pleas as they were so damn sure we'd vote to remain. They've learned nothing from that experience. Once again they are betting everything on the UK bending to their demands because the alternative is unthinkable - the UK crashing out without a deal.


There is a limit to Europe a la carte.

It cant be that hard to understand.

The EU's own guidelines talk of an imaginative and flexible approach to the Irish border but they're insisting on their way or bust. The latter will cause enormous harm to everyone. The last time they played take it or leave it with the UK we know what happened.



Simply agreeing to any old half-arsed bollocks proposed by Downing Street doesn't constitute being flexible and imaginative.


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 2:37 pm 
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Quote:
Simply agreeing to any old half-arsed bollocks proposed by Downing Street doesn't constitute being flexible and imaginative.



And neither does agreeing to an EU /Irish land grab.


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 4:40 pm 
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Hellraiser wrote:
Simply agreeing to any old half-arsed bollocks proposed by Downing Street doesn't constitute being flexible and imaginative.

Anyone can see that the Irish border is being used to keep the UK aligned and controlled. It's staggeringly arrogant and shortsighted IMHO - even more so than laughing Cameron out of Brussels prior to the referendum and look how that turned out.


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 5:15 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
Quote:
Simply agreeing to any old half-arsed bollocks proposed by Downing Street doesn't constitute being flexible and imaginative.



And neither does agreeing to an EU /Irish land grab.

Anschluss

:twisted:


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 5:26 pm 
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Laurent wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Quote:
Simply agreeing to any old half-arsed bollocks proposed by Downing Street doesn't constitute being flexible and imaginative.



And neither does agreeing to an EU /Irish land grab.

Anschluss

:twisted:


Certainly welcome French experience on the issue.


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 5:28 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
Quote:
Simply agreeing to any old half-arsed bollocks proposed by Downing Street doesn't constitute being flexible and imaginative.



And neither does agreeing to an EU /Irish land grab.


English and having problems with a land grab :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 5:31 pm 
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Plato'sCave wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Quote:
Simply agreeing to any old half-arsed bollocks proposed by Downing Street doesn't constitute being flexible and imaginative.



And neither does agreeing to an EU /Irish land grab.


English and having problems with a land grab :lol:



We could send Welsh troops like the old days...


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 5:35 pm 
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Plato'sCave wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Quote:
Simply agreeing to any old half-arsed bollocks proposed by Downing Street doesn't constitute being flexible and imaginative.



And neither does agreeing to an EU /Irish land grab.


English and having problems with a land grab :lol:


Not one of his specialist subjects in fairness. ;)


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 5:36 pm 
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If we got Norway's EV incentives I'd be mighty pleased.


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 5:41 pm 
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Zico wrote:
Plato'sCave wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Quote:
Simply agreeing to any old half-arsed bollocks proposed by Downing Street doesn't constitute being flexible and imaginative.



And neither does agreeing to an EU /Irish land grab.


English and having problems with a land grab :lol:


Not one of his specialist subjects in fairness. ;)



I'd struggle to seprate the English troops from the rest of the British Army.


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 5:53 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
Zico wrote:
Plato'sCave wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Quote:
Simply agreeing to any old half-arsed bollocks proposed by Downing Street doesn't constitute being flexible and imaginative.



And neither does agreeing to an EU /Irish land grab.


English and having problems with a land grab :lol:


Not one of his specialist subjects in fairness. ;)



I'd struggle to seprate the English troops from the rest of the British Army.

They are the ones who like to break off from battle so they can have a break for tea.


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 6:14 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
Zico wrote:
Plato'sCave wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Quote:
Simply agreeing to any old half-arsed bollocks proposed by Downing Street doesn't constitute being flexible and imaginative.



And neither does agreeing to an EU /Irish land grab.


English and having problems with a land grab :lol:


Not one of his specialist subjects in fairness. ;)



I'd struggle to seprate the English troops from the rest of the British Army.


They’re the ones from a real country.


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 6:47 pm 
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Gospel wrote:
Hellraiser wrote:
Simply agreeing to any old half-arsed bollocks proposed by Downing Street doesn't constitute being flexible and imaginative.

Anyone can see that the Irish border is being used to keep the UK aligned and controlled. It's staggeringly arrogant and shortsighted IMHO - even more so than laughing Cameron out of Brussels prior to the referendum and look how that turned out.


Can't see through the fog from that ivory tower.

You're not Irish so you've no idea what the border means to us. It's insulting to suggest it's a frivolous negotiating tactic and only makes flexibility more difficult for the current Irish government. It's another example of Brexiters attempting to poison the well so they get a hard Brexit with no deal.


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 6:50 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
Laurent wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Quote:
Simply agreeing to any old half-arsed bollocks proposed by Downing Street doesn't constitute being flexible and imaginative.



And neither does agreeing to an EU /Irish land grab.

Anschluss

:twisted:


Certainly welcome French experience on the issue.

From your reply I'm not sure you know what the Anschluss was


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 10:30 pm 
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Zico wrote:
Gospel wrote:
Hellraiser wrote:
Simply agreeing to any old half-arsed bollocks proposed by Downing Street doesn't constitute being flexible and imaginative.

Anyone can see that the Irish border is being used to keep the UK aligned and controlled. It's staggeringly arrogant and shortsighted IMHO - even more so than laughing Cameron out of Brussels prior to the referendum and look how that turned out.


Can't see through the fog from that ivory tower.

You're not Irish so you've no idea what the border means to us. It's insulting to suggest it's a frivolous negotiating tactic and only makes flexibility more difficult for the current Irish government. It's another example of Brexiters attempting to poison the well so they get a hard Brexit with no deal.

What a load of bollocks. Trying to force my country to remain a vassal state of Brussels is a damn sight more insulting than adding a poxy camera to an A road. Everything to do with NI is a special situation which requires flexible and imaginative solutions - just read the Belfast Agreement as an example. There is no justifiable reason why a technical solution to the customs issue as outlined in the EU Commission's own study isn't feasible. Opposition is pure politicking with the cynical aim of keeping the UK aligned and subordinate. If we had a stronger PM she'd be saying take it or leave it and use this so called divorce bill to help mitigate the disruption.


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 10:39 pm 
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Former Cabinet Ministers Greening, Rudd and Green have broken with JRM and told him to fudge off and have the Chief Whip's ear.

The Tories are really fecked long term.


Pity the Metrocentic trendy lefty Labour sellouts are so shit


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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 10:49 pm 
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c69 wrote:
Former Cabinet Ministers Greening, Rudd and Green have broken with JRM and told him to fudge off and have the Chief Whip's ear.

The Tories are really fecked long term.


Pity the Metrocentic trendy lefty Labour sellouts are so shit



The Tories are r ucked short to medium term, long term they have 20'years of power again post your communist mob f ucking the economy so bad no one contemplates voting for them until the Tories go the full Tory .... I dearly hope we get an insurances based NHS during that 20 years.


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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 1:02 am 
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Gospel wrote:
Zico wrote:
Gospel wrote:
Hellraiser wrote:
Simply agreeing to any old half-arsed bollocks proposed by Downing Street doesn't constitute being flexible and imaginative.

Anyone can see that the Irish border is being used to keep the UK aligned and controlled. It's staggeringly arrogant and shortsighted IMHO - even more so than laughing Cameron out of Brussels prior to the referendum and look how that turned out.


Can't see through the fog from that ivory tower.

You're not Irish so you've no idea what the border means to us. It's insulting to suggest it's a frivolous negotiating tactic and only makes flexibility more difficult for the current Irish government. It's another example of Brexiters attempting to poison the well so they get a hard Brexit with no deal.



Gospel wrote:
What a load of bollocks.


Zico wrote:
Aye shut up Paddy you don't know what's good for you. :roll:


Gospel wrote:
Trying to force my country to remain a vassal state of Brussels is a damn sight more insulting than adding a poxy camera to an A road.


Zico wrote:
Everyone apart from Drumpf and Putin warned you against it but it's now a mess of your own creation.

Ireland will be an EU member with or without the UK.

It's up to the UK to find a work around for their (ever changing) demands.


Last edited by Zico on Sat May 19, 2018 1:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 1:05 am 
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Someone needs a safe space.


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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 7:09 am 
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We can provide cheap ones for you
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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 7:57 am 
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Gospel wrote:
Hellraiser wrote:
Simply agreeing to any old half-arsed bollocks proposed by Downing Street doesn't constitute being flexible and imaginative.

Anyone can see that the Irish border is being used to keep the UK aligned and controlled. It's staggeringly arrogant and shortsighted IMHO - even more so than laughing Cameron out of Brussels prior to the referendum and look how that turned out.


Staggeringly arrogant and shortsighted IMHO?

Perhaps it's time for a new acronym to add to IMHO in cases like this one.

I suggest IMSAASO.

For swashbuckling Brexiteers NOT to have foreseen the clusterfcuk which awaited concerning the border issue is indeed both staggeringly arrogant and stupefyingly shortsighted.

As you fecking were.

I've a royal nuptials to studiously, scornfully and witheringly ignore.


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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 11:16 am 
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nardol wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Laurent wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Quote:
Simply agreeing to any old half-arsed bollocks proposed by Downing Street doesn't constitute being flexible and imaginative.



And neither does agreeing to an EU /Irish land grab.

Anschluss

:twisted:


Certainly welcome French experience on the issue.

From your reply I'm not sure you know what the Anschluss was


Of course not.


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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 2:01 pm 
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Threads cooled a bit but I've found video of May negotiating Brexit.


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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 2:59 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
Gospel wrote:
bimboman wrote:
May has f ucked this up so badly, but I hope it means we avoid Corbyn led governemnt and eventually we get to leave.

I do wonder what kind of Brexit May would have forced through had she a big enough majority. The issues over the Irish border wouldn't be any different for example.



We should have prepared form no deal absolutely from day one, told the EU exactly what the deal we wanted was and left them to it. May is a remainer, parliament is remain and the Lords are remain, we will not leave.

You did though. Took a good look at it and realised that maybe no deal wasn't a good idea.


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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 3:17 pm 
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paddyor wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Gospel wrote:
bimboman wrote:
May has f ucked this up so badly, but I hope it means we avoid Corbyn led governemnt and eventually we get to leave.

I do wonder what kind of Brexit May would have forced through had she a big enough majority. The issues over the Irish border wouldn't be any different for example.



We should have prepared form no deal absolutely from day one, told the EU exactly what the deal we wanted was and left them to it. May is a remainer, parliament is remain and the Lords are remain, we will not leave.

You did though. Took a good look at it and realised that maybe no deal wasn't a good idea.



We haven't left yet. And I doubt we will. As zzzz said it took special effort to take the worst of a soft and hard brexit and combine them.

I don't care whether you think it's a good idea or not, we are being led by people with no leadership ability.


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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 4:20 pm 
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These EU plums are really a bunch of shameless, hypocritical, corrupt and disgraceful bastards. I'd say let's get ready to walk away. EU don't control the UK like they du with Ireland. I hope May is ready to tell these plums to f off.


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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 4:39 pm 
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TranceNRG wrote:
These EU plums are really a bunch of shameless, hypocritical, corrupt and disgraceful bastards. I'd say let's get ready to walk away. EU don't control the UK like they du with Ireland. I hope May is ready to tell these plums to f off.

No chance of properly preparing for a no deal option with Hammond as Chancellor.


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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 4:42 pm 
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paddyor wrote:
You did though. Took a good look at it and realised that maybe no deal wasn't a good idea.

May backed away from all talk of no-deal after the General Election, possibly has something to do with having been forced to fire her one Brexiteer advisor Nick Timothy. Remainer civil servant Olly Robbins is said to have had her ear on Brexit since.


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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 5:02 pm 
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Gospel wrote:
TranceNRG wrote:
These EU plums are really a bunch of shameless, hypocritical, corrupt and disgraceful bastards. I'd say let's get ready to walk away. EU don't control the UK like they du with Ireland. I hope May is ready to tell these plums to f off.

No chance of properly preparing for a no deal option with Hammond as Chancellor.


That would be better written as 'No chance of properly preparing for a no deal option'

It's cost a fortune and take a long time to setup, so we'd also have the problem of going to the EU and saying we'd like to massively extend the transition arrangement in order we can further distance ourselves down the line, which wouldn't only annoy the EU it'd worry and frustrate any number of allies


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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 5:04 pm 
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Gospel wrote:
TranceNRG wrote:
These EU plums are really a bunch of shameless, hypocritical, corrupt and disgraceful bastards. I'd say let's get ready to walk away. EU don't control the UK like they du with Ireland. I hope May is ready to tell these plums to f off.

No chance of properly preparing for a no deal option with Hammond as Chancellor.


If the choice is between leaving on WTO terms or staying in Customs union and Single market(shameless EU plums demand that) , May will have to choose the former (she's insisted we'll leave both).


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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 5:23 pm 
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TranceNRG wrote:
Gospel wrote:
TranceNRG wrote:
These EU plums are really a bunch of shameless, hypocritical, corrupt and disgraceful bastards. I'd say let's get ready to walk away. EU don't control the UK like they du with Ireland. I hope May is ready to tell these plums to f off.

No chance of properly preparing for a no deal option with Hammond as Chancellor.


If the choice is between leaving on WTO terms or staying in Customs union and Single market(shameless EU plums demand that) , May will have to choose the former (she's insisted we'll leave both).


Or she could quit as Conservative Leader, call another general election, sanction another referendum, or delay the transition and continue to negotiate a fudge - the last of these may be the most likely


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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 5:42 pm 
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The EU to end up with a better trade deal with Australia and New Zealand than the UK.

Quote:
With Theresa May insistent that leaving the EU will involve exiting the customs union and the bloc’s external commercial policy, the announcement from Brussels opens up the possibility that the EU could enjoy better terms with the two Commonwealth nations after Brexit than the UK will.

New Zealand’s trade minister, David Parker, said the UK’s withdrawal did not diminish the huge potential gains for his country that would come from breaking down trade barriers with the remaining 27 member states.

He said: “The EU is our third-largest trading partner, with two-way trade worth more than $20bn [£10.3bn]. Even excluding the UK, our trade with the EU is worth about $16bn annually.”

The international trade secretary, Liam Fox, had recently spoken of “reinvigorating” the Commonwealth partnership with a host of trade deals after Brexit, labelled “empire 2.0” by sceptical Whitehall officials.

But the UK will not be able to start its negotiations over future trade with New Zealand and Australia until 30 March 2019. The European commission president, Jean-Claude Juncker, has vowed to complete the EU’s talks with the two countries by 31 October of that year, when his time in office expires.


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... mmonwealth


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PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2018 6:02 pm 
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Gospel wrote:
TranceNRG wrote:
These EU plums are really a bunch of shameless, hypocritical, corrupt and disgraceful bastards. I'd say let's get ready to walk away. EU don't control the UK like they du with Ireland. I hope May is ready to tell these plums to f off.

No chance of properly preparing for a no deal option with Hammond as Chancellor.


Or the fact that we were told a deal with the EU is the easiest deal in the world

Quote:
David Davis (again), 4 February 2016
Image


Quote:
Environment secretary Michael Gove (then justice secretary), 1 June 2016

Image


Quote:
Former Conservative and UKIP MP Douglas Carswell, 8 June 2016
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Quote:
Tory backbencher and former minister John Redwood, 17 July 2016
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Quote:
Brexit secretary David Davis, 14 July 2016
Image


Quote:
International trade secretary Liam Fox, 20 July 2017
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