Planet Rugby Forum

ChipSpike wrote:

La soule wrote:

Gospel wrote:

La soule wrote:

ChipSpike wrote:May pushing the fight against terrorism to the EU, in attempt to bend their redlines. Looking at YouGov EU polling figures, every EU country poll figures are saying immigration and terrorism are the biggest issues facing the EU today, so probably a smart move.

She has already used that blackmail trick at least twice before.

The EU weaponised security and defence with Galileo.

You mean the announcement they made a couple of months back?

May tried the blackmail tactic way before that I am afraid.

Works both ways, the EU are saying if you don't accept our red lines your security will suffer. I suspect she's talking to the EU population though, who are putting the issue at the top of their agenda.

Yes, yes, she has already done that twice, regardless of the Galileo announcement.

The EU want the UK blocked from the European Arrest Warrant I understand... how is that going to play-out over the Irish border?

DragsterDriver wrote:

Rugby2023 wrote:

DragsterDriver wrote:Pwoper nawty geeza.

Look at the Donald go:

https://twitter.com/abc/status/1012135271184228352?s=21

It came out yesterday that Trump offered France a better trade deal if they agreed to leave the EU during Macron's White House visit.

Really? Did it make the news?

I’ve just had a look, the tariffs suggested on German cars coupled with a hard brexit? He’s really going to squeeze merkel’s tits on her visit.

Petej wrote:Paul nutty and DD said similiar stuff before fox. DD was talking about a UK Germany trade deal before the referendum.

That was misrepresented too, Davis acknowledged in the same piece that the overarching deal would go through Brussels, but that in realpolitik terms the agreements would be brokered in European capitals, principally Germany's. Paul Nutty is presumably Paul Nuttall? I'm not sure many people knew he existed pre-ref.

Gospel wrote:The EU want the UK blocked from the European Arrest Warrant I understand... how is that going to play-out over the Irish border?

Yet equally they are getting upset at the notion that the disruption or downgrading of security/intelligence cooperation between the UK and EU might cost lives.

DragsterDriver wrote:

Rugby2023 wrote:

DragsterDriver wrote:Pwoper nawty geeza.

Look at the Donald go:

https://twitter.com/abc/status/1012135271184228352?s=21

It came out yesterday that Trump offered France a better trade deal if they agreed to leave the EU during Macron's White House visit.

Really? Did it make the news?

It was in the WaPo

During a private meeting at the White House in late April, Trump was discussing trade with French President Emmanuel Macron. At one point, he asked Macron, “Why don’t you leave the E.U.?” and said that if France exited the union, Trump would offer it a bilateral trade deal with better terms than the E.U. as a whole gets from the United States, according to two European officials. The White House did not dispute the officials’ account, but declined to comment.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... 7b9f5468a5

Gospel wrote:The EU want the UK blocked from the European Arrest Warrant I understand... how is that going to play-out over the Irish border?

Does all of this fall under ecj oversight? So crosses one of our redlines.

It's the UK's choice to leave. There are consequences. And threatening to not cooperate on security umless you are given extra large cherries doesn't go down very well. Especially since the UK has essentially sat with it's thumb stuck up its arse so far as negotiations are concerned since triggering Article 50.

camroc1 wrote:It's the UK's choice to leave. There are consequences. And threatening to not cooperate on security umless you are given extra large cherries doesn't go down very well. Especially since the UK has essentially sat with it's thumb stuck up its arse so far as negotiations are concerned since triggering Article 50.

We want to cooperate on security, the EU is blocking it. Its in the news.

“Germany calling, Germany calling“

ChipSpike wrote:

camroc1 wrote:It's the UK's choice to leave. There are consequences. And threatening to not cooperate on security umless you are given extra large cherries doesn't go down very well. Especially since the UK has essentially sat with it's thumb stuck up its arse so far as negotiations are concerned since triggering Article 50.

We want to cooperate on security, the EU is blocking it. Its in the news.

No, you are saying that you will not share security intelligence unless you also get A, B, C, .......X, Y and Z.

Petej wrote:

Gospel wrote:The EU want the UK blocked from the European Arrest Warrant I understand... how is that going to play-out over the Irish border?

Does all of this fall under ecj oversight? So crosses one of our redlines.

Mr Barnier has argued the UK cannot remain part of some policing agreements after Brexit because it wanted to leave the European Court of Justice and free movement rules.

TranceNRG wrote:Of course there are huge differences. They want us to remain in the Single market and Customs union. This game will go on till the last minute. This is nothing new.

Just to give a slight tweek on that statement above:

The EU want Northern Ireland to remain in the customs union to protect its borders more easily. It's Ireland that want the UK as a whole to remain in the customs union for east/west trade.

As for single market: It's the UK that want to remain part of that. The UK want unrestricted access to financial markets as well as other markets in the EU. The EU want freedom of movement for its citizens into the UK

You're making it sound like the UK doesn't want to be part of the single market. They fcuking do, they just want to control freedom of movement (ie having their cake and eating it). It's the customs union they want to leave so that they can make their own trade deals.

Rugby2023 wrote:

DragsterDriver wrote:Pwoper nawty geeza.

Look at the Donald go:

https://twitter.com/abc/status/1012135271184228352?s=21

It came out yesterday that Trump offered France a better trade deal if they agreed to leave the EU during Macron's White House visit.

gullible halfwits

Rugby2023 wrote:

DragsterDriver wrote:Pwoper nawty geeza.

Look at the Donald go:

https://twitter.com/abc/status/1012135271184228352?s=21

It came out yesterday that Trump offered France a better trade deal if they agreed to leave the EU during Macron's White House visit.

Yea that's going to work. You keep forgetting how important the EU is to France and Germany. Every time.

Gospel wrote:The EU want the UK blocked from the European Arrest Warrant I understand... how is that going to play-out over the Irish border?

There will have to be an exception there. I think this issue will be resolved.

iarmhiman wrote:

Rugby2023 wrote:

DragsterDriver wrote:Pwoper nawty geeza.

Look at the Donald go:

https://twitter.com/abc/status/1012135271184228352?s=21

It came out yesterday that Trump offered France a better trade deal if they agreed to leave the EU during Macron's White House visit.

Yea that's going to work. You keep forgetting how important the EU is to France and Germany. Every time.

I'm well aware of Manu's predilection, I was just amused that Trump actually tried.

iarmhiman wrote:

Gospel wrote:The EU want the UK blocked from the European Arrest Warrant I understand... how is that going to play-out over the Irish border?

There will have to be an exception there. I think this issue will be resolved.

If there can be an exception over security why not customs arrangements? Do goods have a higher status than people?

camroc1 wrote:It's the UK's choice to leave. There are consequences. And threatening to not cooperate on security umless you are given extra large cherries doesn't go down very well. Especially since the UK has essentially sat with it's thumb stuck up its arse so far as negotiations are concerned since triggering Article 50.

EU bargaining chips = leverage
UK bargaining chips = blackmail

Personally I think the UK's decision to leave is a clusterf*ck of epic proportions, but I think the EU are just as culpable of the kind intransigence behaviour that the UK are being accused of.

Gospel wrote:

iarmhiman wrote:

Gospel wrote:The EU want the UK blocked from the European Arrest Warrant I understand... how is that going to play-out over the Irish border?

There will have to be an exception there. I think this issue will be resolved.

If there can be an exception over security why not customs arrangements? Do goods have a higher status than people?

We have a common travel area, we also have our own immigration policies to that of Schengen. It's not all uniform across the bloc. Why couldn't there be an exception?

iarmhiman wrote:

Gospel wrote:

iarmhiman wrote:

Gospel wrote:The EU want the UK blocked from the European Arrest Warrant I understand... how is that going to play-out over the Irish border?

There will have to be an exception there. I think this issue will be resolved.

If there can be an exception over security why not customs arrangements? Do goods have a higher status than people?

We have a common travel area, we also have our own immigration policies to that of Schengen. It's not all uniform across the bloc. Why couldn't there be an exception?

I'm on your side of the street brother but this sort of pragmatism has been shot down by Brussels who are playing for all or nothing fully expecting the UK to fold.

Gospel wrote:I'm on your side of the street brother but this sort of pragmatism has been shot down by Brussels who are playing for all or nothing fully expecting the UK to fold.

According to Waterfield in The Times, it has been shot down by Germany. Most European Govts. are said to be pragmatic and want a co-operative deal done, although Selmayr (another German) is pushing the intransigent approach too.

In these negotiations with the EU commission and EU council, I expected the hard line to be taken from France not Germany.

Germany want to keep good trade. France wants London's financial services so the hard line recently from Germany has been surprising.

Gospel wrote:

iarmhiman wrote:

Gospel wrote:

iarmhiman wrote:

Gospel wrote:The EU want the UK blocked from the European Arrest Warrant I understand... how is that going to play-out over the Irish border?

There will have to be an exception there. I think this issue will be resolved.

If there can be an exception over security why not customs arrangements? Do goods have a higher status than people?

We have a common travel area, we also have our own immigration policies to that of Schengen. It's not all uniform across the bloc. Why couldn't there be an exception?

I'm on your side of the street brother but this sort of pragmatism has been shot down by Brussels who are playing for all or nothing fully expecting the UK to fold.

What do you want on the CU side? Being in it without any of the restrictions that comes with it? Correct?

Is that what you pragmatism?

Gospel wrote:

La soule wrote:

ChipSpike wrote:May pushing the fight against terrorism to the EU, in attempt to bend their redlines. Looking at YouGov EU polling figures, every EU country poll figures are saying immigration and terrorism are the biggest issues facing the EU today, so probably a smart move.

She has already used that blackmail trick at least twice before.

The EU weaponised security and defence with Galileo.

Some of the EU security, defence and Galileo etc.. Is due to the EU being more than just a trade block which is exactly why we want to leave. Unfortunately, this means we have to lose some stuff we would like to be part of.

Are there not non eu members in the Galileo project?

DragsterDriver wrote:Are there not non eu members in the Galileo project?

Norway and Switzerland. Norway full access via eea Switzerland observer access.

Petej wrote:

DragsterDriver wrote:Are there not non eu members in the Galileo project?

Norway and Switzerland. Norway full access via eea Switzerland observer access.

Well, plus China(in the early years), Morocco, Israel and the Ukraine.

La soule wrote:What do you want on the CU side? Being in it without any of the restrictions that comes with it?

Whatever gave you that idea? I have stated time and again that I don't want the UK to be the Customs Union with the EU. I'd like to pursue the technologic solution which the EU Commission white paper had outlined.

Petej wrote:

Gospel wrote:

La soule wrote:

ChipSpike wrote:May pushing the fight against terrorism to the EU, in attempt to bend their redlines. Looking at YouGov EU polling figures, every EU country poll figures are saying immigration and terrorism are the biggest issues facing the EU today, so probably a smart move.

She has already used that blackmail trick at least twice before.

The EU weaponised security and defence with Galileo.

Some of the EU security, defence and Galileo etc.. Is due to the EU being more than just a trade block which is exactly why we want to leave. Unfortunately, this means we have to lose some stuff we would like to be part of.

Of course we lose access to certain things but Galileo is nonsensical given how much the EU relies on the UK for security and defence. You're so wrapped up in Barnier's BS you can't see the wood for the tress.

Gospel wrote:

La soule wrote:What do you want on the CU side? Being in it without any of the restrictions that comes with it?

Whatever gave you that idea? I have stated time and again that I don't want the UK to be the Customs Union with the EU. I'd like to pursue the technologic solution which the EU Commission white paper had outlined.

So a bit like the system in place between Sweden / Norway I guess. They still stop lorries there and the traffic is not as dense as it will be in the UK.

La soule wrote:

Gospel wrote:

La soule wrote:What do you want on the CU side? Being in it without any of the restrictions that comes with it?

Whatever gave you that idea? I have stated time and again that I don't want the UK to be the Customs Union with the EU. I'd like to pursue the technologic solution which the EU Commission white paper had outlined.

So a bit like the system in place between Sweden / Norway I guess. They still stop lorries there and the traffic is not as dense as it will be in the UK.

As the brexit win shows we're good at being denser

“We want more opt outs”

The chaps have never been good on what an actual Union means.

La soule wrote:

Gospel wrote:

La soule wrote:What do you want on the CU side? Being in it without any of the restrictions that comes with it?

Whatever gave you that idea? I have stated time and again that I don't want the UK to be the Customs Union with the EU. I'd like to pursue the technologic solution which the EU Commission white paper had outlined.

So a bit like the system in place between Sweden / Norway I guess. They still stop lorries there and the traffic is not as dense as it will be in the UK.

The only impediment to a frictionless border in Ireland is political. Everything to do with the place is under a special arrangement.

Gospel wrote:

La soule wrote:

Gospel wrote:

La soule wrote:What do you want on the CU side? Being in it without any of the restrictions that comes with it?

Whatever gave you that idea? I have stated time and again that I don't want the UK to be the Customs Union with the EU. I'd like to pursue the technologic solution which the EU Commission white paper had outlined.

So a bit like the system in place between Sweden / Norway I guess. They still stop lorries there and the traffic is not as dense as it will be in the UK.

The only impediment to a frictionless border in Ireland is political. Everything to do with the place is under a special arrangement.

And it was working so well till now.

La soule wrote:

Gospel wrote:

La soule wrote:

Gospel wrote:

La soule wrote:What do you want on the CU side? Being in it without any of the restrictions that comes with it?

Whatever gave you that idea? I have stated time and again that I don't want the UK to be the Customs Union with the EU. I'd like to pursue the technologic solution which the EU Commission white paper had outlined.

So a bit like the system in place between Sweden / Norway I guess. They still stop lorries there and the traffic is not as dense as it will be in the UK.

The only impediment to a frictionless border in Ireland is political. Everything to do with the place is under a special arrangement.

And it was working so well till now.

Things change. People adapt. We just disagree on how to get it done.

Yesterday the UK was blaming the EU for the slow progress; today we see the obstructionists

Laura Kuenssberg
✔
@bbclaurak

Tensions revealed sometimes by tiny things - I hear Commission asked UK for talks next week, UK said no, so Barnier then invited them again in front of the cameras
1:26 PM - Jun 29, 2018

What was the comment about the Brexit Bulldog ? ; "lazy as a Toad"

Gospel wrote: Things change. People adapt. We just disagree on how to get it done.

I think the main issue now is the UK saying that nothing will change on the Irish border. If anything happens to the GFA, it will be because of the EU.

That's a bit of an easy cope out...

La soule wrote:

Gospel wrote: Things change. People adapt. We just disagree on how to get it done.

I think the main issue now is the UK saying that nothing will change on the Irish border. If anything happens to the GFA, it will be because of the EU.

That's a bit of an easy cope out...

The Belfast agreement is about sovereignty not how a border is monitored.