Planet Rugby Forum

Gospel wrote:

La soule wrote:

Gospel wrote: Things change. People adapt. We just disagree on how to get it done.

I think the main issue now is the UK saying that nothing will change on the Irish border. If anything happens to the GFA, it will be because of the EU.

That's a bit of an easy cope out...

The Belfast agreement is about sovereignty not how a border is monitored.

(vi) recognise the birthright of all the people of Northern Ireland to
identify themselves and be accepted as Irish or British, or both, as they
may so choose, and accordingly confirm that their right to hold both
British and Irish citizenship is accepted by both Governments and would
not be affected by any future change in the status of Northern Ireland.

fishfoodie wrote:Yesterday the UK was blaming the EU for the slow progress; today we see the obstructionists

Laura Kuenssberg
✔
@bbclaurak

Tensions revealed sometimes by tiny things - I hear Commission asked UK for talks next week, UK said no, so Barnier then invited them again in front of the cameras
1:26 PM - Jun 29, 2018

What was the comment about the Brexit Bulldog ? ; "lazy as a Toad"

DragsterDriver wrote:

fishfoodie wrote:Yesterday the UK was blaming the EU for the slow progress; today we see the obstructionists

Laura Kuenssberg
✔
@bbclaurak

Tensions revealed sometimes by tiny things - I hear Commission asked UK for talks next week, UK said no, so Barnier then invited them again in front of the cameras
1:26 PM - Jun 29, 2018

What was the comment about the Brexit Bulldog ? ; "lazy as a Toad"

Was that before or after the pissing around with football shirts and scarves? The EU is like a pantomime, i’ll be glad when the Germans sit down at the table and resolve brexit.

DragsterDriver wrote:

fishfoodie wrote:Yesterday the UK was blaming the EU for the slow progress; today we see the obstructionists

Laura Kuenssberg
✔
@bbclaurak

Tensions revealed sometimes by tiny things - I hear Commission asked UK for talks next week, UK said no, so Barnier then invited them again in front of the cameras
1:26 PM - Jun 29, 2018

What was the comment about the Brexit Bulldog ? ; "lazy as a Toad"

Was that before or after the pissing around with football shirts and scarves? The EU is like a pantomime, i’ll be glad when the Germans sit down at the table and resolve brexit.

DragsterDriver wrote:

fishfoodie wrote:Yesterday the UK was blaming the EU for the slow progress; today we see the obstructionists

Laura Kuenssberg
✔
@bbclaurak

Tensions revealed sometimes by tiny things - I hear Commission asked UK for talks next week, UK said no, so Barnier then invited them again in front of the cameras
1:26 PM - Jun 29, 2018

What was the comment about the Brexit Bulldog ? ; "lazy as a Toad"

Was that before or after the pissing around with football shirts and scarves? The EU is like a pantomime, i’ll be glad when the Germans sit down at the table and resolve brexit.

fishfoodie wrote:

DragsterDriver wrote:

fishfoodie wrote:Yesterday the UK was blaming the EU for the slow progress; today we see the obstructionists

Laura Kuenssberg
✔
@bbclaurak

Tensions revealed sometimes by tiny things - I hear Commission asked UK for talks next week, UK said no, so Barnier then invited them again in front of the cameras
1:26 PM - Jun 29, 2018

What was the comment about the Brexit Bulldog ? ; "lazy as a Toad"

Was that before or after the pissing around with football shirts and scarves? The EU is like a pantomime, i’ll be glad when the Germans sit down at the table and resolve brexit.

Check the date on tweet !

The shirts thing was just another example of UK unpreparedness. Of course they were going to do it on the day of a game between two EU countries, it's happened in the past. May should have been waiting with an England Jersey, but wasn't.

UK says 'no invite received' and accuses Barnier of 'a gimmick designed for the benefit of the cameras'

Almost 9 hours to approve #MigrationEU conclusions, not even 1 minute to approve #Brexit conclusions. #EU can still work together -JM #EUCO

NickC wrote:

DragsterDriver wrote:

fishfoodie wrote:Yesterday the UK was blaming the EU for the slow progress; today we see the obstructionists

Laura Kuenssberg
✔
@bbclaurak

Tensions revealed sometimes by tiny things - I hear Commission asked UK for talks next week, UK said no, so Barnier then invited them again in front of the cameras
1:26 PM - Jun 29, 2018

What was the comment about the Brexit Bulldog ? ; "lazy as a Toad"

Was that before or after the pissing around with football shirts and scarves? The EU is like a pantomime, i’ll be glad when the Germans sit down at the table and resolve brexit.

Just seen this tweet - don't know if true or not - if it is looks like there is little trust in Brussels....

"Juncker in full conspiracy mode: admits he told EU leaders an incorrect date of his Trump visit (July 21-22) to identify the leaker. He's actually going on July 24"

How can the UK trust them when they don't trust each other???

La soule wrote:

NickC wrote:

DragsterDriver wrote:

fishfoodie wrote:Yesterday the UK was blaming the EU for the slow progress; today we see the obstructionists

Laura Kuenssberg
✔
@bbclaurak

Tensions revealed sometimes by tiny things - I hear Commission asked UK for talks next week, UK said no, so Barnier then invited them again in front of the cameras
1:26 PM - Jun 29, 2018

What was the comment about the Brexit Bulldog ? ; "lazy as a Toad"

Was that before or after the pissing around with football shirts and scarves? The EU is like a pantomime, i’ll be glad when the Germans sit down at the table and resolve brexit.

Just seen this tweet - don't know if true or not - if it is looks like there is little trust in Brussels....

"Juncker in full conspiracy mode: admits he told EU leaders an incorrect date of his Trump visit (July 21-22) to identify the leaker. He's actually going on July 24"

How can the UK trust them when they don't trust each other???

Tough one to answer considering you cannot confirm if the twit is true or not.

fishfoodie wrote:

Gospel wrote:

La soule wrote:

Gospel wrote: Things change. People adapt. We just disagree on how to get it done.

I think the main issue now is the UK saying that nothing will change on the Irish border. If anything happens to the GFA, it will be because of the EU.

That's a bit of an easy cope out...

The Belfast agreement is about sovereignty not how a border is monitored.

Oh come one; there's a hell of a lot more in there, than just how & who Governs NI.

For example:

(vi) recognise the birthright of all the people of Northern Ireland to
identify themselves and be accepted as Irish or British, or both, as they
may so choose, and accordingly confirm that their right to hold both
British and Irish citizenship is accepted by both Governments and would
not be affected by any future change in the status of Northern Ireland.

Where are the Legal guarantees for NI residents who chose to identify as Irish Citizens, that they will have the same access to the NHS etc ?

At moment EU citizens are being asked to pay for the privilege of answering Javid's, "Three Simple Questions"; where is the Post-Brexit guarantee for these NI residents that this doesn't apply to them ?

Zico wrote:I saw some quote this morning from May telling the EU that Brexit was putting lives a risk because information won't be shared between security services as it is now.

Is anything coming from the UK actually for ears in the rest of the EU or is it all still for domestic consumption specifically within the Tory party?

danny_fitz wrote:

camroc1 wrote:It's the UK's choice to leave. There are consequences. And threatening to not cooperate on security umless you are given extra large cherries doesn't go down very well. Especially since the UK has essentially sat with it's thumb stuck up its arse so far as negotiations are concerned since triggering Article 50.

EU bargaining chips = leverage
UK bargaining chips = blackmail

Personally I think the UK's decision to leave is a clusterf*ck of epic proportions, but I think the EU are just as culpable of the kind intransigence behaviour that the UK are being accused of.

Mick Mannock wrote:

Zico wrote:I saw some quote this morning from May telling the EU that Brexit was putting lives a risk because information won't be shared between security services as it is now.

Is anything coming from the UK actually for ears in the rest of the EU or is it all still for domestic consumption specifically within the Tory party?

Not Brexit. The EU.

Zico wrote:

Mick Mannock wrote:

Zico wrote:I saw some quote this morning from May telling the EU that Brexit was putting lives a risk because information won't be shared between security services as it is now.

Is anything coming from the UK actually for ears in the rest of the EU or is it all still for domestic consumption specifically within the Tory party?

Not Brexit. The EU.

The EU hasn't changed anything. Brexit is the event which changes the sharing of information.

I assume the cause and effect is clear to the intended audience.

According to UK officials, Mrs May said EU leaders should tell their negotiators to allow the UK to continue to take part in schemes like the Prum mechanism for sharing DNA profiles, the Second Generation Schengen Information System - a database of "real time" alerts about certain individuals - and the European Criminal Records Information System.

Without UK participation in such schemes, she suggested their collective ability to fight terrorism would be reduced.

"We would no longer be able to share real-time alerts for wanted persons, including serious criminals," she said.

"We would be able to respond less swiftly to alerts for missing people on either side of the Channel and reunite them with their loved ones.

"Our collective ability to map terrorist networks across Europe and bring those responsible to justice would be reduced.

"That is not what I want and I do not believe it is what you want either," the prime minister said.

She urged them to "consider what is in the best interests of the safety of your citizens and mine and give your negotiators a mandate that will allow us to achieve this crucial objective."

Rinkals wrote:

danny_fitz wrote:

camroc1 wrote:It's the UK's choice to leave. There are consequences. And threatening to not cooperate on security umless you are given extra large cherries doesn't go down very well. Especially since the UK has essentially sat with it's thumb stuck up its arse so far as negotiations are concerned since triggering Article 50.

EU bargaining chips = leverage
UK bargaining chips = blackmail

Personally I think the UK's decision to leave is a clusterf*ck of epic proportions, but I think the EU are just as culpable of the kind intransigence behaviour that the UK are being accused of.

They have a vested interest in not making it too easy. It was the UK, after all who opted to leave.

Mick Mannock wrote:

Zico wrote:

Mick Mannock wrote:

Zico wrote:I saw some quote this morning from May telling the EU that Brexit was putting lives a risk because information won't be shared between security services as it is now.

Is anything coming from the UK actually for ears in the rest of the EU or is it all still for domestic consumption specifically within the Tory party?

Not Brexit. The EU.

The EU hasn't changed anything. Brexit is the event which changes the sharing of information.

I assume the cause and effect is clear to the intended audience.

The UK is prepared to maintain security co-operation. There are elements within The EU who want to put politics above lives.

According to UK officials, Mrs May said EU leaders should tell their negotiators to allow the UK to continue to take part in schemes like the Prum mechanism for sharing DNA profiles, the Second Generation Schengen Information System - a database of "real time" alerts about certain individuals - and the European Criminal Records Information System.

Without UK participation in such schemes, she suggested their collective ability to fight terrorism would be reduced.

"We would no longer be able to share real-time alerts for wanted persons, including serious criminals," she said.

"We would be able to respond less swiftly to alerts for missing people on either side of the Channel and reunite them with their loved ones.

"Our collective ability to map terrorist networks across Europe and bring those responsible to justice would be reduced.

"That is not what I want and I do not believe it is what you want either," the prime minister said.

She urged them to "consider what is in the best interests of the safety of your citizens and mine and give your negotiators a mandate that will allow us to achieve this crucial objective."

Zico wrote:

Mick Mannock wrote:

Zico wrote:

Mick Mannock wrote:

Zico wrote:I saw some quote this morning from May telling the EU that Brexit was putting lives a risk because information won't be shared between security services as it is now.

Is anything coming from the UK actually for ears in the rest of the EU or is it all still for domestic consumption specifically within the Tory party?

Not Brexit. The EU.

The EU hasn't changed anything. Brexit is the event which changes the sharing of information.

I assume the cause and effect is clear to the intended audience.

The UK is prepared to maintain security co-operation. There are elements within The EU who want to put politics above lives.

According to UK officials, Mrs May said EU leaders should tell their negotiators to allow the UK to continue to take part in schemes like the Prum mechanism for sharing DNA profiles, the Second Generation Schengen Information System - a database of "real time" alerts about certain individuals - and the European Criminal Records Information System.

Without UK participation in such schemes, she suggested their collective ability to fight terrorism would be reduced.

"We would no longer be able to share real-time alerts for wanted persons, including serious criminals," she said.

"We would be able to respond less swiftly to alerts for missing people on either side of the Channel and reunite them with their loved ones.

"Our collective ability to map terrorist networks across Europe and bring those responsible to justice would be reduced.

"That is not what I want and I do not believe it is what you want either," the prime minister said.

She urged them to "consider what is in the best interests of the safety of your citizens and mine and give your negotiators a mandate that will allow us to achieve this crucial objective."

May is outlining what was dismissed as 'Project Fear' during the referendum campaign if it was mentioned at all.

It reads to me that her comments are directed at hard Brexiters in her own party.

The best the EU can do is wait and hope the Tories can get the nationalistic fantasists among them to face reality or just go to Kabul on urgent business when the difficult decisions are being made.

ChipSpike wrote:May has got the patience of saint. How big must the temptation be to say F88k you, no deal, and walk out.

Zico wrote:

ChipSpike wrote:May has got the patience of saint. How big must the temptation be to say F88k you, no deal, and walk out.

Of the Tory party?

croyals wrote:

fishfoodie wrote:

Gospel wrote:

La soule wrote:

Gospel wrote: Things change. People adapt. We just disagree on how to get it done.

I think the main issue now is the UK saying that nothing will change on the Irish border. If anything happens to the GFA, it will be because of the EU.

That's a bit of an easy cope out...

The Belfast agreement is about sovereignty not how a border is monitored.

Oh come one; there's a hell of a lot more in there, than just how & who Governs NI.

For example:

(vi) recognise the birthright of all the people of Northern Ireland to
identify themselves and be accepted as Irish or British, or both, as they
may so choose, and accordingly confirm that their right to hold both
British and Irish citizenship is accepted by both Governments and would
not be affected by any future change in the status of Northern Ireland.

Where are the Legal guarantees for NI residents who chose to identify as Irish Citizens, that they will have the same access to the NHS etc ?

At moment EU citizens are being asked to pay for the privilege of answering Javid's, "Three Simple Questions"; where is the Post-Brexit guarantee for these NI residents that this doesn't apply to them ?

In statute that goes back further than the GFA or the EU

La soule wrote:

Gospel wrote:

La soule wrote:What do you want on the CU side? Being in it without any of the restrictions that comes with it?

Whatever gave you that idea? I have stated time and again that I don't want the UK to be the Customs Union with the EU. I'd like to pursue the technologic solution which the EU Commission white paper had outlined.

So a bit like the system in place between Sweden / Norway I guess. They still stop lorries there and the traffic is not as dense as it will be in the UK.

Leinster in London wrote:You idiots still do not understand Gallileo. I went through this a couple of weeks ago.

It has multiple roles which will be accessed by all partners, EU, Norway, Swiss, Joe Bloggs, China, and even USA if they divvy up.
There are certain conditions though. ECJ overarching could be one.
There is one role which the brits know all about because they designed it to be part of the project.
It is the spying bit. Spying on all sorts of things.
One of the rules the brits built in was that this spying info could not be accessed by 3rd parties.
Now that UK has voted to become a 3rd party, they realise that their machinations have backfired.

Stop the rest of the BS and start explaining why you want to be such a nosy parker into the private affairs of god knows what.

NickC wrote:Brussels correspondent for the FT, so who knows eh...

The FT wrote: David Davis, Britain’s chief Brexit negotiator, has held only four hours of talks with his Brussels opposite number this year, according to government records.

The lack of political engagement was cited by EU leaders on Friday as they rebuked the UK for slow progress on Brexit. In a joint summit statement, they insisted on “the need for intensified efforts” and warned that there had been “no substantial” advances on the vexed issue of the Irish border.

DragsterDriver wrote:I didn’t think they want to talk until they get the white paper?

Spoiler: show

Chancellor Angela Merkel said Mrs May would "come to Germany and we will have a longer debate on this", once the proposals were published.

DragsterDriver wrote:

Chancellor Angela Merkel said Mrs May would "come to Germany and we will have a longer debate on this", once the proposals were published.

That’s more like it.

TranceNRG wrote:

DragsterDriver wrote:

Chancellor Angela Merkel said Mrs May would "come to Germany and we will have a longer debate on this", once the proposals were published.

That’s more like it.

In thy end Germany and to a lesser extent France will change the direction of these negotiations. If the plum Barnier gets instructions from the top to quit playing politics he'll have no choice but to stop beating his chest.

I'm still willing to bet money that a satisfactory deal will be reached in the end.

DragsterDriver wrote:

Chancellor Angela Merkel said Mrs May would "come to Germany and we will have a longer debate on this", once the proposals were published.

That’s more like it.

TranceNRG wrote:

DragsterDriver wrote:

Chancellor Angela Merkel said Mrs May would "come to Germany and we will have a longer debate on this", once the proposals were published.

That’s more like it.

In thy end Germany and to a lesser extent France will change the direction of these negotiations. If the plum Barnier gets instructions from the top to quit playing politics he'll have no choice but to stop beating his chest.

I'm still willing to bet money that a satisfactory deal will be reached in the end.

bimboman wrote:

DragsterDriver wrote:

Chancellor Angela Merkel said Mrs May would "come to Germany and we will have a longer debate on this", once the proposals were published.

That’s more like it.

Where's that from DD, we have been constantly informed that we can't speak about the issue bi laterally, you know the 27 and all that.

TranceNRG wrote:

DragsterDriver wrote:

Chancellor Angela Merkel said Mrs May would "come to Germany and we will have a longer debate on this", once the proposals were published.

That’s more like it.

In thy end Germany and to a lesser extent France will change the direction of these negotiations. If the plum Barnier gets instructions from the top to quit playing politics he'll have no choice but to stop beating his chest.

I'm still willing to bet money that a satisfactory deal will be reached in the end.

Leffe wrote:

TranceNRG wrote:

DragsterDriver wrote:

Chancellor Angela Merkel said Mrs May would "come to Germany and we will have a longer debate on this", once the proposals were published.

That’s more like it.

In thy end Germany and to a lesser extent France will change the direction of these negotiations. If the plum Barnier gets instructions from the top to quit playing politics he'll have no choice but to stop beating his chest.

I'm still willing to bet money that a satisfactory deal will be reached in the end.

Which is odd isnt it? That the all powerful EU plays second fiddle to national, elected leaders.... odd. Cos we were told the polar opposite vy that Farage plum!

bimboman wrote:

DragsterDriver wrote:

Chancellor Angela Merkel said Mrs May would "come to Germany and we will have a longer debate on this", once the proposals were published.

That’s more like it.

.

Where's that from DD, we have been constantly informed that we can't speak about the issue bi laterally, you know the 27 and all that.

bimboman wrote:

DragsterDriver wrote:

Chancellor Angela Merkel said Mrs May would "come to Germany and we will have a longer debate on this", once the proposals were published.

That’s more like it.

Where's that from DD, we have been constantly informed that we can't speak about the issue bi laterally, you know the 27 and all that.