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Whether you can or can't actually vote IRL, In, or Out
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:14 am 
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Gospel wrote:
La soule wrote:
The Man With Fear wrote:
TranceNRG wrote:
I understand very well there are opportunities available to the UK after Brexit and it was one of the reason I voted for Brexit (was a difficult decision) but I'm under no illusion that leaving with no deal especially without giving businesses enough time to prepare for it will be very damaging to the economy in the short term and there will be many job losses. I certainly think we need to be prepared to use that option of negotiations fail. But we need to make adequate preparations first.




Businesses will just get on with it - they don't care about political narratives. They just want to trade. I pick up the phone and speak, in English, to people all over the world in my job, I don't think I have ever checked to see what trade agreement the UK/EU has with them before I made that call. I just make the call.



Good for you. What about the lads in those factiries in Sutherland or wherever?

I guess that so long as you dont take a hit, the rest can just fudge off, right?

Like you give a fudge about British factory workers. :lol:


I'm loving how so many of the conservative, done well for meself pr posters have become such champions of the people. :lol:

Bring back DAC, at least he actually means it.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:23 am 
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Petej wrote:
Gospel wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Quote:
The Canadian deal is wholly unacceptable for the UK , and clearly there are political challenges both the UK and EU face which didn't apply to previous EU deals. We need much more than any old deal not to lose a fortune



Why and who will "lose a fortune"?

I think he's talking about a few percent in GDP forecasts which equates to the man in the street being told he's lost his shirt on the six o'clock news. Dark days indeed.


Laughing over job losses. London based what a surprise.

1000 contractors at JLR but new factory in slovakia and the electric car built in austria, 4000 jobs at Derby with Rolls-Royce but enough to be able to acquire a large company in Spain (ITP) and engine sign off moved to Germany. I guess zero hour contracts in an amazon or sports direct warehouse is a replacement for those type of jobs.


If we did a proper Brexit we could remove the need for zero hours contracts.

(By slashing regulations to make it really easy to sack people)


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:30 am 
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now you're talking, sam. :thumbup:

starting with those who waste the working day waffling on t'internet.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:43 am 
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piquant wrote:
Rugby2023 wrote:
piquant wrote:
Times reporting May is going to make the cabinet swallow a whole series of EU oversight on trade to protect as much of the single market as possible, in return for which when we cancel a load of increases to tax thresholds and increase borrowing by billions we'll invest such money into the NHS and Boris will be allowed to claim we've got a brexit dividend

I didn't read the Times article and perhaps there was more detail but I struggle to see how she's in a position to make them swallow anything. A number of the Cabinet were ready to resign a week and a half ago when she tried to foist a never-ending CU on them.



Well we've got the first part where May just about keeps a straight face whilst claiming there's a Brexit dividend, though her nose was shorter last week I'd swear

I hear they've repainted the bus.

Spoiler: show
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:49 am 
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bimboman wrote:
I'm sure he's trying to balance the books. Oh and :lol: comparing train carriages to cars.


So how exactly does that work.
First cancel the trade talks that could harmonise custom duties, then impose new duties.
Keep to your cars and stay thinking you made an important point.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:59 am 
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It's an interesting call to make the NHS announcement about Brexit.

But as something for Brexiters like Boris to celebrate it seems to be playing quite well - you can see from the front pages that the more left/centre media are reporting it as "More money for the NHS", wheras the Brexit backing papers are reporting it as primarily a Brexit win.

As May herself, and officially accepted Govt figures, say that there won't be a Brexit dividend it's quite impressive as a piece of politics.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:06 am 
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May just said on the Marr show that it would be paid for partly by extra taxation and partly by a Brexit dividend.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:10 am 
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ChipSpike wrote:
May just said on the Marr show that it would be paid for partly by extra taxation and partly by a Brexit dividend.


Ok, but there is no Brexit dividend, so the framing seems to be a political tactic.

The Government has accepted and is working to the assumption that public finances will be weakened by around £15bn per year as though payments to the EU will fall/end, so will tax revenues.

I think public opinion including many core Tory voters (aside from the "you can't just throw money at it" Tories) is behind tax rises.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:20 am 
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SamShark wrote:
ChipSpike wrote:
May just said on the Marr show that it would be paid for partly by extra taxation and partly by a Brexit dividend.


Ok, but there is no Brexit dividend, so the framing seems to be a political tactic.

The Government has accepted and is working to the assumption that public finances will be weakened by around £15bn per year as though payments to the EU will fall/end, so will tax revenues.

I think public opinion including many core Tory voters (aside from the "you can't just throw money at it" Tories) is behind tax rises.


I expect the government to plan for the worst, its only prudent. It doesn't mean they actually know what the tax revenues are going to be 6 months in the future, never mind years.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:26 am 
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SamShark wrote:
ChipSpike wrote:
May just said on the Marr show that it would be paid for partly by extra taxation and partly by a Brexit dividend.


Ok, but there is no Brexit dividend, so the framing seems to be a political tactic.

The Government has accepted and is working to the assumption that public finances will be weakened by around £15bn per year as though payments to the EU will fall/end, so will tax revenues.

I think public opinion including many core Tory voters (aside from the "you can't just throw money at it" Tories) is behind tax rises.

They have a point, throwing good money after bad into an failing organisation which needs a complete rethink and reform isn't really a great plan. I'd like to think reform will come alongside the funding boost, although it will take a stronger PM to enforce such change.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:32 am 
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SamShark wrote:
ChipSpike wrote:
May just said on the Marr show that it would be paid for partly by extra taxation and partly by a Brexit dividend.


Ok, but there is no Brexit dividend, so the framing seems to be a political tactic.

The Government has accepted and is working to the assumption that public finances will be weakened by around £15bn per year as though payments to the EU will fall/end, so will tax revenues.

I think public opinion including many core Tory voters (aside from the "you can't just throw money at it" Tories) is behind tax rises.


I expect the government to plan for the worst, its only prudent. It doesn't mean they actually know what the tax revenues are going to be 6 months in the future, never mind years.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:45 am 
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Petej wrote:
Gospel wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Quote:
The Canadian deal is wholly unacceptable for the UK , and clearly there are political challenges both the UK and EU face which didn't apply to previous EU deals. We need much more than any old deal not to lose a fortune



Why and who will "lose a fortune"?

I think he's talking about a few percent in GDP forecasts which equates to the man in the street being told he's lost his shirt on the six o'clock news. Dark days indeed.


Laughing over job losses. London based what a surprise.

1000 contractors at JLR but new factory in slovakia and the electric car built in austria, 4000 jobs at Derby with Rolls-Royce but enough to be able to acquire a large company in Spain (ITP) and engine sign off moved to Germany. I guess zero hour contracts in an amazon or sports direct warehouse is a replacement for those type of jobs.




38,000 new jobs last month, 70% full time professionals, zero hour contract jobs static at 3% of total employment, your narrative is just dishonest.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:48 am 
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SamShark wrote:
ChipSpike wrote:
May just said on the Marr show that it would be paid for partly by extra taxation and partly by a Brexit dividend.


Ok, but there is no Brexit dividend, so the framing seems to be a political tactic.

The Government has accepted and is working to the assumption that public finances will be weakened by around £15bn per year as though payments to the EU will fall/end, so will tax revenues.

I think public opinion including many core Tory voters (aside from the "you can't just throw money at it" Tories) is behind tax rises.



You got a link for that acceptance of the fall in tax revenue ? Is it net against the 12 billion the EU costs ?

I think public opinion wants out and done, but you're happy to carry on ignoring that.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:58 am 
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Leinster in London wrote:
bimboman wrote:
I'm sure he's trying to balance the books. Oh and :lol: comparing train carriages to cars.


So how exactly does that work.
First cancel the trade talks that could harmonise custom duties, then impose new duties.
Keep to your cars and stay thinking you made an important point.



It works by encouraging the internal market by being protectionist, like the EU does. Trump doesn't want talks to start from a weaker position.

You keep throwing up straw men like the massive train carriages as a comparison market to automobiles and think you've made any sort of point at all.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:11 pm 
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Quote:
I think public opinion wants out and done, but you're happy to carry on ignoring that.


Without wishing to sound confrontational, yes I am happy to ignore what you think, as I don't agree with it.

You don't channel "public opinion" so we are left with guesswork and polling, the latter you see as illegitimate which discredits your position.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:14 pm 
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SamShark wrote:
Quote:
I think public opinion wants out and done, but you're happy to carry on ignoring that.


Without wishing to sound confrontational, yes I am happy to ignore what you think, as I don't agree with it.

You don't channel "public opinion" so we are left with guesswork and polling, the latter you see as illegitimate which discredits your position.



Every poll back my view, none back yours.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:15 pm 
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Not sure how to take such a silly statement.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:17 pm 
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YouGov 11 June

If there was a referendum on Britain’s membership of the EU, how would you vote?

Remain 45%, leave 40%


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:18 pm 
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Opinium 16 May

If there was another referendum on Britain’s membership of the EU, how would you vote?

Remain 47%

Leave 42%


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:20 pm 
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YouGov 12 June

In hindsight, do you think Britain was right or wrong to vote to leave the EU?

Wrong 46%
Right 43%


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:20 pm 
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:lol: , if there was a chance to,live on mars ::


The question is not valid. Everyone that asks about how it should be handled says the majority want out of the CU and SM.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:21 pm 
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Survation 4th June

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union, or leave the European Union?

Remain 48%
Leave 47%


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:24 pm 
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SamShark wrote:
Survation 4th June

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union, or leave the European Union?

Remain 48%
Leave 47%



Oh then I accept that we should reverse it all then.

it what you want then go for it, protest in the streets n all that. I hope you'll respect the opposite polls in a few years when the country is being dragged through another euro crisis and of course the riots that ensue.

I genuinly hate your lack of respect for democracy btw and while insulated think it's terribly terribly dangerous.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:27 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
:lol: , if there was a chance to,live on mars ::


The question is not valid. Everyone that asks about how it should be handled says the majority want out of the CU and SM.


Opinium 7 June

Which should be the government’s negotiating priority – staying in the single market or ending free movement?

Staying in the single market even if it means allowing free movement of labour 53%
Ending free movement of labour even if it means we leave the single market 47%


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:29 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
SamShark wrote:
Survation 4th June

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union, or leave the European Union?

Remain 48%
Leave 47%



Oh then I accept that we should reverse it all then.

it what you want then go for it, protest in the streets n all that. I hope you'll respect the opposite polls in a few years when the country is being dragged through another euro crisis and of course the riots that ensue.

I genuinly hate your lack of respect for democracy btw and while insulated think it's terribly terribly dangerous.


No idea why you start expressing hate.

You said public opinion wants "out and done"

I questioned that.

You said "Every poll back my view, none back yours."

I started posting polls, you say you hate me.

Utterly bizarre.

Quote:
I hope you'll respect the opposite polls in a few years when the country is being dragged through another euro crisis


I respect the polls for what they are - a stronger signal of public opinion rather than an individual's guesswork


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:32 pm 
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Opinium 7 June

Should the Government’s priority for Britain after Brexit be to stay in the customs union to prioritise our trade links with the EU or leave the customs union to grow our trade links outside the EU?

Staying in the customs union to prioritise our current trade links with the European Union 32%
Leaving the customs unions to grow our trade links outside of the European Union 30%
Not sure 16%
Haven't heard of the customs union 22%


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:33 pm 
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Petej wrote:
Gospel wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Quote:
The Canadian deal is wholly unacceptable for the UK , and clearly there are political challenges both the UK and EU face which didn't apply to previous EU deals. We need much more than any old deal not to lose a fortune



Why and who will "lose a fortune"?

I think he's talking about a few percent in GDP forecasts which equates to the man in the street being told he's lost his shirt on the six o'clock news. Dark days indeed.


Laughing over job losses. London based what a surprise.

1000 contractors at JLR but new factory in slovakia and the electric car built in austria, 4000 jobs at Derby with Rolls-Royce but enough to be able to acquire a large company in Spain (ITP) and engine sign off moved to Germany. I guess zero hour contracts in an amazon or sports direct warehouse is a replacement for those type of jobs.


More Labour propaganda. Most of those things you mentioned are not due to Brexit. Jobs are lost (some due to cheaper manufacturing costs in other countries and some due to restructuring) and new jobs are created all the time.

I know the lefties like to bring up Zero hour contracts as if it's some evil scheme but the truth is vast majority of those on Zero hour contracts actually are happy with them as they suit their working hours.


Last edited by TranceNRG on Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:33 pm 
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By the way, these are just polls I can find, not polls I hand pick.

You could also post some as it's genuinely interesting to see what people think when asked these questions


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:36 pm 
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There's also plenty of polls wanting the governemnt to just get on with leaving Sam, the results recently reflect the difficulty we are currently in, though I'm of the opinion that people sharing your views caused much of the difficulty.

Look you've won, remain have reversed the result and we will be back in soon enough. Eventually they'll be another crisis though and ever closer union will cause the UK problems which will want public opinion leaving, or we vote against a war the governemnt want , or a social policy led by exptremists and the reversal of brexit will be used tactically and actually to go against the people.

It's like free speech, democracy has to be respected even if we don't like the outcome and the immediacy of so called "liberals " to want suddenly to restrict the views they don't like is both telling and worrying. So yes I f ucking hate people's who would weaken British democracy.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:37 pm 
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Opinium 7 June

Should there be a final vote by MPs to accept or reject the deal once we know the terms the government has negotiated with the EU?

Yes 43%
No 37%
Don't know 21%


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:37 pm 
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SamShark wrote:
By the way, these are just polls I can find, not polls I hand pick.

You could also post some as it's genuinely interesting to see what people think when asked these questions



There was a poll 2 years ago and 35 million people took part. That's it .


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:38 pm 
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TranceNRG wrote:
Petej wrote:
Gospel wrote:
bimboman wrote:
Quote:
The Canadian deal is wholly unacceptable for the UK , and clearly there are political challenges both the UK and EU face which didn't apply to previous EU deals. We need much more than any old deal not to lose a fortune



Why and who will "lose a fortune"?

I think he's talking about a few percent in GDP forecasts which equates to the man in the street being told he's lost his shirt on the six o'clock news. Dark days indeed.


Laughing over job losses. London based what a surprise.

1000 contractors at JLR but new factory in slovakia and the electric car built in austria, 4000 jobs at Derby with Rolls-Royce but enough to be able to acquire a large company in Spain (ITP) and engine sign off moved to Germany. I guess zero hour contracts in an amazon or sports direct warehouse is a replacement for those type of jobs.


More Labour propaganda. Most of those things you mentioned are not due to Brexit.



Your point as to causation has some truth. Globalisation, the way Brexit is (not) being handled as well as the prospect of Brexit itself are all contributors.


But denying responsibility is typically dishonest. 2 years ago and leavers were blaming the EU for what were the effects of globalisation.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:38 pm 
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Brexit dividend or not (and I think we know the truth of this), I am loving this thread's top contributor's silence over the Conservatives promising to pour taxpayers' money into the NHS. Loving it.


Last edited by shereblue on Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:40 pm 
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The polls are this way because we are at the point of leaving where there is maximum uncertainty, and people will respond to that. But we were told the poll was a one off, binding, and would be implemented. This is the government line, and I respect them for it. Also, as we know, the polls may not reflect what would actually happen in a real life ref rerun. Not that there's going to be one.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:40 pm 
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bimboman wrote:
SamShark wrote:
Quote:
I think public opinion wants out and done, but you're happy to carry on ignoring that.


Without wishing to sound confrontational, yes I am happy to ignore what you think, as I don't agree with it.

You don't channel "public opinion" so we are left with guesswork and polling, the latter you see as illegitimate which discredits your position.



Every poll back my view, none back yours.

:lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:41 pm 
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SamShark wrote:
Opinium 7 June

Should there be a final vote by MPs to accept or reject the deal once we know the terms the government has negotiated with the EU?

Yes 43%
No 37%
Don't know 21%



Stupid leading question.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:42 pm 
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Sefton wrote:
bimboman wrote:
SamShark wrote:
Quote:
I think public opinion wants out and done, but you're happy to carry on ignoring that.


Without wishing to sound confrontational, yes I am happy to ignore what you think, as I don't agree with it.

You don't channel "public opinion" so we are left with guesswork and polling, the latter you see as illegitimate which discredits your position.



Every poll back my view, none back yours.

:lol: :lol: :lol:



How about that labour lead ?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:44 pm 
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ChipSpike wrote:
The polls are this way because we are at the point of leaving where there is maximum uncertainty, and people will respond to that. But we were told the poll was a one off, binding, and would be implemented. This is the government line, and I respect them for it. Also, as we know, the polls may not reflect what would actually happen in a real life ref rerun. Not that there's going to be one.

Government isn't sovreign. Parliament is. The people have spoken.

Breaking the fixed term parliament law was reversed after repeated denials too only last year so don't give such credence to "what we were told"


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:47 pm 
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More strawmen when caught lying from Bimbo.

It's his raison d'etre.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:48 pm 
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ChipSpike wrote:
The polls are this way because we are at the point of leaving where there is maximum uncertainty, and people will respond to that. But we were told the poll was a one off, binding, and would be implemented. This is the government line, and I respect them for it. Also, as we know, the polls may not reflect what would actually happen in a real life ref rerun. Not that there's going to be one.


Hit nail on the head. The numbers are still pretty similar anyway.


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