Planet Rugby Forum

sewa wrote:

bimboman wrote:

sewa wrote:
You don´t have concerns but we do. Well if you intend on deviating from the EU rules / standards on goods as you seem to be going that way. Its not going to be possible to automatically read those RF chips (yes I have worked on projects using RF chips for Serialisation, Aggregation and Traceability purposes) from a moving lorry so it would mean stopping a % of trucks at or near borders for additional checks. Not exactly ideal

As you've said the concern and therefore issue is yours, break the GFA under instruction, the U.K. Won't.

Well these checks would cost money, I am sure you well know who will be funding it

You seem to be missing the point, the issue isn't ours. Do you think that a container being checked from say China is checked at Rotterdam and the Chinese pay for the check ?

Also at Belfast harbour?? Would be brilliant but don't see the DUP letting that one lie.

iarmhiman wrote:Also at Belfast harbour?? Would be brilliant but don't see the DUP letting that one lie.

We don't care about checks.

bimboman wrote:

ent of the value of modern industrial output is in fact based on services - intellectual property, design, finance, environmental and data issues - so if the UK has the freedom to diverge on services after Brexit it could unfairly steal a march on European competitors

They'd be shitting a brick at a no deal then.

A no-deal is a very damaging outcome for the UK, Ireland, Belgium, Netherlands etc but in the medium to long term the UK will have far more tools at it's / our collective disposal to recover through divergence and bespoke trade deals with the world's big economies like the US, Japan and China. What will the EU do to mitigate that same shock?

Gospel wrote:

bimboman wrote:

ent of the value of modern industrial output is in fact based on services - intellectual property, design, finance, environmental and data issues - so if the UK has the freedom to diverge on services after Brexit it could unfairly steal a march on European competitors

They'd be shitting a brick at a no deal then.

A no-deal is a very damaging outcome for the UK, Ireland, Belgium, Netherlands etc but in the medium to long term the UK will have far more tools at it's / our collective disposal to recover through divergence and bespoke trade deals with the world's big economies like the US, Japan and China. What will the EU do to mitigate that same shock?

Trade deals are not made overnight Gospel. Some can take up to 7 years. The EU deal with Canada took a long time. The EU's deal with India still has problems with intellectual property.

iarmhiman wrote:

Gospel wrote:

bimboman wrote:

ent of the value of modern industrial output is in fact based on services - intellectual property, design, finance, environmental and data issues - so if the UK has the freedom to diverge on services after Brexit it could unfairly steal a march on European competitors

They'd be shitting a brick at a no deal then.

A no-deal is a very damaging outcome for the UK, Ireland, Belgium, Netherlands etc but in the medium to long term the UK will have far more tools at it's / our collective disposal to recover through divergence and bespoke trade deals with the world's big economies like the US, Japan and China. What will the EU do to mitigate that same shock?

Trade deals are not made overnight Gospel. Some can take up to 7 years. The EU deal with Canada took a long time. The EU's deal with India still has problems with intellectual property.

The U.K. Should be slightly more fleet of foot, even if not they're Ok eventually.

iarmhiman wrote:

Gospel wrote:

bimboman wrote:

ent of the value of modern industrial output is in fact based on services - intellectual property, design, finance, environmental and data issues - so if the UK has the freedom to diverge on services after Brexit it could unfairly steal a march on European competitors

They'd be shitting a brick at a no deal then.

A no-deal is a very damaging outcome for the UK, Ireland, Belgium, Netherlands etc but in the medium to long term the UK will have far more tools at it's / our collective disposal to recover through divergence and bespoke trade deals with the world's big economies like the US, Japan and China. What will the EU do to mitigate that same shock?

Trade deals are not made overnight Gospel. Some can take up to 7 years. The EU deal with Canada took a long time. The EU's deal with India still has problems with intellectual property.

The US want a deal made within two years. They've been trying to do a deal with the EU for the last twenty years. The Aussies and Kiwis get deals done in months because they're not having to jump through hoops or consider the concerns of twenty eight different and often unique societies each with their own demands for protectionism. This shouldn't need explaining. It's been covered many, many times.

Gospel wrote:

iarmhiman wrote:

Gospel wrote:

bimboman wrote:

ent of the value of modern industrial output is in fact based on services - intellectual property, design, finance, environmental and data issues - so if the UK has the freedom to diverge on services after Brexit it could unfairly steal a march on European competitors

They'd be shitting a brick at a no deal then.

A no-deal is a very damaging outcome for the UK, Ireland, Belgium, Netherlands etc but in the medium to long term the UK will have far more tools at it's / our collective disposal to recover through divergence and bespoke trade deals with the world's big economies like the US, Japan and China. What will the EU do to mitigate that same shock?

Trade deals are not made overnight Gospel. Some can take up to 7 years. The EU deal with Canada took a long time. The EU's deal with India still has problems with intellectual property.

The US want a deal made within two years. They've been trying to do a deal with the EU for the last twenty years. The Aussies and Kiwis get deals done in months because they're not having to jump through hoops or consider the concerns of twenty eight different and often unique societies each with their own demands for protectionism. This shouldn't need explaining. It's been covered many, many times.

A quick deal with the US eh?

Answer this honestly now. Who do you think is more likely to be screwed in a quick US UK trade deal with Donald Trump "driving the bus"? (To quote Dragster)

That will probably give you a clue as to why trade deals take a long time with the EU. They don't want to get screwed.

iarmhiman wrote:Answer this honestly now. Who do you think is more likely to be screwed in a US UK trade deal with Donald Trump "driving the bus"? (To quote Dragster)

Nations don't sign trade deals that aren't in their mutual interest - unless of course you're remainer desperate to get back up Juncker's sphincter. The US is the UK's biggest customer trading on just WTO terms.

Gospel wrote:

iarmhiman wrote:Answer this honestly now. Who do you think is more likely to be screwed in a US UK trade deal with Donald Trump "driving the bus"? (To quote Dragster)

Nations don't sign trade deals that aren't in their mutual interest - unless of course you're remainer desperate to get back up Juncker's sphincter. The US is the UK's biggest customer trading on just WTO terms.

Ok Gospel.

Best of luck getting a fair trade deal with a superpower like the USA unless you want your trade negotiators to battle hard for the UK's interest and that's where time comes in . Trade deals don't happen overnight.

iarmhiman wrote:

Gospel wrote:

iarmhiman wrote:Answer this honestly now. Who do you think is more likely to be screwed in a US UK trade deal with Donald Trump "driving the bus"? (To quote Dragster)

Nations don't sign trade deals that aren't in their mutual interest - unless of course you're remainer desperate to get back up Juncker's sphincter. The US is the UK's biggest customer trading on just WTO terms.

Ok Gospel.

Best of luck getting a fair trade deal with a superpower like the USA unless you want your trade negotiators to battle hard for the UK's interest and that's where time comes in . Trade deals don't happen overnight.

You forgot to mention chlorinated chicken you gobshite. As an aside there's a really interesting Channel 4 series that's just started which goes behind the scenes as the US Embassy in London.

iarmhiman wrote:Best of luck getting a fair trade deal with a superpower like the USA unless you want your trade negotiators to battle hard for the UK's interest and that's where time comes in . Trade deals don't happen overnight.

It's in Trump's political interest too remember, he'll want to wave around his trade deal successes domestically.

iarmhiman wrote:

Gospel wrote:

iarmhiman wrote:Answer this honestly now. Who do you think is more likely to be screwed in a US UK trade deal with Donald Trump "driving the bus"? (To quote Dragster)

Nations don't sign trade deals that aren't in their mutual interest - unless of course you're remainer desperate to get back up Juncker's sphincter. The US is the UK's biggest customer trading on just WTO terms.

Ok Gospel.

Best of luck getting a fair trade deal with a superpower like the USA unless you want your trade negotiators to battle hard for the UK's interest and that's where time comes in . Trade deals don't happen overnight.

Also having experienced trade negotiators is helpful. They better get real lucky

All economic data collected indicates both sides of any FTA signed has an increase in trade and profits from trades. Every time the more free a trade relationship is the better it is for BOTH sides. The "one side gets screwed" narrative isn't backed up by any figures or historical stats,

Rugby2023 wrote:It's in Trump's political interest too remember, he'll want to wave around his trade success domestically.

He's a protectionist. You'll probably have to buy Chevrolets and shit like that in his trade deal.

Rugby2023 wrote:It's in Trump's political interest too remember, he'll want to wave around his trade success domestically.

All Trump wants to wave around are his balls, and he will use any trade negotiation (not just the UK) to do so. His version of a red, white and blue agreement would not be the same as the UK's.

Gospel wrote:

iarmhiman wrote:

Gospel wrote:

iarmhiman wrote:Answer this honestly now. Who do you think is more likely to be screwed in a US UK trade deal with Donald Trump "driving the bus"? (To quote Dragster)

Nations don't sign trade deals that aren't in their mutual interest - unless of course you're remainer desperate to get back up Juncker's sphincter. The US is the UK's biggest customer trading on just WTO terms.

Ok Gospel.

Best of luck getting a fair trade deal with a superpower like the USA unless you want your trade negotiators to battle hard for the UK's interest and that's where time comes in . Trade deals don't happen overnight.

You forgot to mention chlorinated chicken you gobshite. As an aside there's a really interesting Channel 4 series that's just started which goes behind the scenes as the US Embassy in London.

You're a bit dim Gospel. No offense.

sewa wrote:

iarmhiman wrote:

Gospel wrote:

iarmhiman wrote:Answer this honestly now. Who do you think is more likely to be screwed in a US UK trade deal with Donald Trump "driving the bus"? (To quote Dragster)

Nations don't sign trade deals that aren't in their mutual interest - unless of course you're remainer desperate to get back up Juncker's sphincter. The US is the UK's biggest customer trading on just WTO terms.

Ok Gospel.

Best of luck getting a fair trade deal with a superpower like the USA unless you want your trade negotiators to battle hard for the UK's interest and that's where time comes in . Trade deals don't happen overnight.

Also having experienced trade negotiators is helpful. They better get real lucky

That's not borne out by the 20 years per deal EU.

bimboman wrote:All economic data collected indicates both sides of any FTA signed has an increase in trade and profits from trades. Every time the more free a trade relationship is the better it is for BOTH sides. The "one side gets screwed" narrative isn't backed up by any figures or historical stats,

The Irish on here seem to view everything through the prism of winners and losers - everything boiled down to make it as confrontational as possible and not something where there's mutual gain.

camroc1 wrote:

Rugby2023 wrote:It's in Trump's political interest too remember, he'll want to wave around his trade success domestically.

All Trump wants to wave around are his balls, and he will use any trade negotiation (not just the UK) to do so. His version of a red, white and blue agreement would not be the same as the UK's.

Then it wouldn't get signed. As pointed out, mutual interest.

Oh no, UK and US are bessies, Iarmiham. No worries there. Easiest deal in history. That why we voted out. It really is THAT simple.

iarmhiman wrote:

Gospel wrote:

iarmhiman wrote:

Gospel wrote:

iarmhiman wrote:Answer this honestly now. Who do you think is more likely to be screwed in a US UK trade deal with Donald Trump "driving the bus"? (To quote Dragster)

Nations don't sign trade deals that aren't in their mutual interest - unless of course you're remainer desperate to get back up Juncker's sphincter. The US is the UK's biggest customer trading on just WTO terms.

Ok Gospel.

Best of luck getting a fair trade deal with a superpower like the USA unless you want your trade negotiators to battle hard for the UK's interest and that's where time comes in . Trade deals don't happen overnight.

You forgot to mention chlorinated chicken you gobshite. As an aside there's a really interesting Channel 4 series that's just started which goes behind the scenes as the US Embassy in London.

You're a bit dim Gospel. No offense.

I'm in good company then paddy.

iarmhiman wrote:

Rugby2023 wrote:It's in Trump's political interest too remember, he'll want to wave around his trade success domestically.

He's a protectionist. You'll probably have to buy Chevrolets and shit like that in his trade deal.

Cars ? Which the "protectionist USA" currently Tarifs at 2.5% and "free trade EU" at 10%.

Of course if you start with the idea that you "have" to buy things from a trade deal you can see the irrational and statistically incorrect fears from striking them.

bimboman wrote:

sewa wrote:
Also having experienced trade negotiators is helpful. They better get real lucky

That's not borne out by the 20 years per deal EU.

Yet again you focus on an irrelevance, the EU are slow to do deals because they are being classically protectionist. We can take our time. We can afford this because the blocs internal market is huge

Gospel wrote:

iarmhiman wrote:

Gospel wrote:

iarmhiman wrote:

Gospel wrote: Nations don't sign trade deals that aren't in their mutual interest - unless of course you're remainer desperate to get back up Juncker's sphincter. The US is the UK's biggest customer trading on just WTO terms.

Ok Gospel.

Best of luck getting a fair trade deal with a superpower like the USA unless you want your trade negotiators to battle hard for the UK's interest and that's where time comes in . Trade deals don't happen overnight.

You forgot to mention chlorinated chicken you gobshite. As an aside there's a really interesting Channel 4 series that's just started which goes behind the scenes as the US Embassy in London.

You're a bit dim Gospel. No offense.

I'm in good company then paddy.

f**king hell. If you say so Jim Davidson.

There are lots of trade experts on Twitter that can be followed for real experience of what trade deals are likely to involve.

I mentioned David Henig many weeks back, who recently left the Govt but was involved in negotiating TTIP. He did a fascinating Brexitcast podcast.

Allie Renison and Sam Lowe are also worth a follow.

In keeping with the even more extreme than usual last few pages, I suspect these people are liars and me naming them is some sort of arch-remainer trap.

shereblue wrote:Oh no, UK and US are bessies. No worries there.

More US businesses are owned by UK citizens than the rest of the world put together. Maybe stop and think about that for a moment. We should have had a trade deal with the US years ago but EU protectionism prevents it.

etherman wrote:

bimboman wrote:

etherman wrote:

bimboman wrote:

I mean physically, where will this "technology" be situated

Where's it currently ?

Are you saying its already in place?

The border absolutely. Processing of duty and VAT across it again absolutely.

There's fudge all at the border. The only serious checks are at Belfast Harbour.

The whole point is, there are already reporting obligations for businesses moving goods and services across that border.

People are suggesting the reporting requirements could be updated to provide whatever information is necessary to manage any new trade arrangements.

Anyone who doesn't understand that a trade deal with the US will be finalised inside 2 years must be really thick

shereblue wrote:Anyone who doesn't understand that a trade deal with the US will be finalised inside 2 years must be really thick

What is this based upon?

shereblue wrote:Anyone who doesn't understand that a trade deal with the US will be finalised inside 2 years must be really thick

Anyone who thinks that EU negotiated trade deals are the benchmark is a fucking lemon.

sewa wrote:

shereblue wrote:Anyone who doesn't understand that a trade deal with the US will be finalised inside 2 years must be really thick

What is this based upon?

Think he's being sarcastic

iarmhiman wrote:

sewa wrote:

shereblue wrote:Anyone who doesn't understand that a trade deal with the US will be finalised inside 2 years must be really thick

What is this based upon?

Think he's being sarcastic

Ah I got whooshed

Does anyone think something funny is going down today?

Media/pundit coverage seems to have become more fraught - it seems like many people think a real decision is going to be made at some point soon.

sewa wrote:

bimboman wrote:

sewa wrote:
Also having experienced trade negotiators is helpful. They better get real lucky

That's not borne out by the 20 years per deal EU.

Yet again you focus on an irrelevance, the EU are slow to do deals because they are being classically protectionist. We can take our time. We can afford this because the blocs internal market is huge

No, I point out the "experienced trade negotiators" hasn't helped the EU cause in speed or number of trade deal. My point is accurate.

"Huge"

Gospel wrote:

shereblue wrote:Oh no, UK and US are bessies. No worries there.

More US businesses are owned by UK citizens than the rest of the world put together. Maybe stop and think about that for a moment. We should have had a trade deal with the US years ago but EU protectionism prevents it.

Did you see how the Germans export 4 x what we do to the USA? Perhaps we are just a bit shit at hurdling EU barriers?

Also, hurrah for your oft quoted statistic. When you say UK citizens, that's not the same as UK doms or residents is it?

Gospel wrote:

shereblue wrote:Anyone who doesn't understand that a trade deal with the US will be finalised inside 2 years must be really thick

Anyone who thinks that EU negotiated trade deals are the benchmark is a fucking lemon.

Let's see how how you get on with your fast trade deals then. I bet they won't be fast though. The Brits are not that stupid.

SamShark wrote:There are lots of trade experts on Twitter that can be followed for real experience of what trade deals are likely to involve.

I mentioned David Henig many weeks back, who recently left the Govt but was involved in negotiating TTIP. He did a fascinating Brexitcast podcast.

Allie Renison and Sam Lowe are also worth a follow.

In keeping with the even more extreme than usual last few pages, I suspect these people are liars and me naming them is some sort of arch-remainer trap.

I don't know about liars or traps, but suffice to say, all three are Europhiles.

iarmhiman wrote:

Gospel wrote:

shereblue wrote:Anyone who doesn't understand that a trade deal with the US will be finalised inside 2 years must be really thick

Anyone who thinks that EU negotiated trade deals are the benchmark is a fucking lemon.

Let's see how how you get on with your fast trade deals then. I bet they won't be fast though. The Brits are not that stupid.

The Americans want it done in two though I'd expect it to take longer given this is our first time and everything.

If we went down the Liam Fox type Brexit route I'd be more worried about fast trade deals than slow ones.

I'm sure the UK can be much more flexible acting alone. The compromises made/preferences of a desperate Liam Fox probably wont sit well with me.