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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 4:13 pm 
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comets wrote:
Vindaman is a poor witness, he seems to be incoherent and mixing words up....ask the lady mroe questions .. she is better composed..


A bit nervous perhaps, speaking to millions of people is not everyone's idea of a good time


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 4:15 pm 
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Still rather more interested in whatever it is the US is doing in Israel. I wonder just what it was that Netanyahu did for Trump... another major piece of US give away without anything seemingly in return.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/us-no-longer-considers-israeli-settlements-illegal/ar-BBWXbI8?ocid=spartanntp


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 4:16 pm 
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Flockwitt wrote:
Still rather more interested in whatever it is the US is doing in Israel. I wonder just what it was that Netanyahu did for Trump... another major piece of US give away without anything seemingly in return.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/us-no-longer-considers-israeli-settlements-illegal/ar-BBWXbI8?ocid=spartanntp


Jared


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 4:20 pm 
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comets wrote:
Vindaman is a poor witness, he seems to be incoherent and mixing words up....ask the lady mroe questions .. she is better composed..


Vindman just made a funny about this

"I speak Russian, Ukranian and a little bit of English"


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 4:21 pm 
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BokJock wrote:
Flockwitt wrote:
Still rather more interested in whatever it is the US is doing in Israel. I wonder just what it was that Netanyahu did for Trump... another major piece of US give away without anything seemingly in return.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/us-no-longer-considers-israeli-settlements-illegal/ar-BBWXbI8?ocid=spartanntp


Jared

Yeah, well it's not part of any peace process or buddy-buddy with Jordan that's for sure.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 4:23 pm 
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The Trumpers will love this.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... s-arrested


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 4:25 pm 
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Flockwitt wrote:
Still rather more interested in whatever it is the US is doing in Israel. I wonder just what it was that Netanyahu did for Trump... another major piece of US give away without anything seemingly in return.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/us-no-longer-considers-israeli-settlements-illegal/ar-BBWXbI8?ocid=spartanntp


Israel is not really relevant now. It was always a thing the Middle East used to bash on for popular support from their citizens or for bargaining chips in international statecraft. Nowadays the Middle East is all concerned with Iran vs. Saudi Arabia, with a little bit of Turkey going into Syria on the side.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 4:35 pm 
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6.Jones wrote:


Always thought the going bet was Epstein had dirt on everyone, regardless of party affiliation.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 4:40 pm 
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Nunes is I suppose running down the clock on his 45 minutes


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 4:48 pm 
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And all that from Nunes just to be told he can shut up about the whistleblower


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 4:54 pm 
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Flyin Ryan wrote:
Flockwitt wrote:
Still rather more interested in whatever it is the US is doing in Israel. I wonder just what it was that Netanyahu did for Trump... another major piece of US give away without anything seemingly in return.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/us-no-longer-considers-israeli-settlements-illegal/ar-BBWXbI8?ocid=spartanntp


Israel is not really relevant now. It was always a thing the Middle East used to bash on for popular support from their citizens or for bargaining chips in international statecraft. Nowadays the Middle East is all concerned with Iran vs. Saudi Arabia, with a little bit of Turkey going into Syria on the side.

I'd be more than a little confident that there is some quid pro quo gone on with this though.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 5:01 pm 
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the dichotomy of the GOP lawyer and the jolly chap sitting behind is quite stark


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 5:09 pm 
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Quote:
'It's Lt Col Vindman, please'
Sparks fly as Vindman pulls rank.

As Republican Devin Nunes addresses the witness as "Mister Vindman", the lieutenant colonel swiftly corrects him.

"Ranking Member, it's Lt Col Vindman, please," he said.


:smug:


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 5:22 pm 
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merry! wrote:
paddyor wrote:
Image

:lol:

you must visit some whacky websites.

Twitter.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 5:26 pm 
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Santa wrote:
merry! wrote:
paddyor wrote:
Image

:lol:

you must visit some whacky websites.


It's an especially weird response to your post which was essentially about this:

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/11/1 ... 020-071377

Unless that article is about the escalating clusterfuck is a master stroke by dear leader then no.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 5:44 pm 
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paddyor wrote:
Santa wrote:
merry! wrote:
paddyor wrote:
Image

:lol:

you must visit some whacky websites.


It's an especially weird response to your post which was essentially about this:

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/11/1 ... 020-071377

Unless that article is about the escalating clusterfuck is a master stroke by dear leader then no.


You are one of the most infuriating posters we've seen on here. You're not stupid, and you're not a wanker. But you have an extremely annoying habit of injecting your own obscure strawman arguments into random thread currents. No one is saying this is a master plan by Trump. What is being suggested here is that an unintended consequence of the Dems initiation of impeachment proceedings could be a disruption of their own candidates primary runs. Why and how is that hard to understand and what has caused you to run off in another direction?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 5:51 pm 
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Paddy I think Sen loves you. Seeing it blossom like this near Christmas is a beautiful thing


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 5:55 pm 
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EverReady wrote:
Paddy I think Sen loves you. Seeing it blossom like this near Christmas is a beautiful thing


'Paddy' could be extended to all the annoying Irish scamps. Love them I do.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 5:59 pm 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
EverReady wrote:
Paddy I think Sen loves you. Seeing it blossom like this near Christmas is a beautiful thing


'Paddy' could be extended to all the annoying Irish scamps. Love them I do.


Paddy is our Goethe


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:03 pm 
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EverReady wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
EverReady wrote:
Paddy I think Sen loves you. Seeing it blossom like this near Christmas is a beautiful thing


'Paddy' could be extended to all the annoying Irish scamps. Love them I do.


Paddy is our Goethe


The Sorrows of Young Paddy, a smash hit of the Romantic period in which young Paddy suffers a terrible loss of all grievances and reasons to be angry and suddenly has to deal with being completely happy. It was a terrible thing to happen to young Paddy to be sure. He even quit drinking having no reason to drown his sorrows in whisky.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:12 pm 
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Struck me the Republican committee members went after Vindman more than Williams. It was implied whoever the whistleblower was if Vindman had contacted him was in the intelligence community. Nunes started asking who Vindman had talked to after being on the July 25th phone call, and Schiff stopped the questioning due to the question trying to determine the identity of the whistleblower.

Afternoon testimony from Tim Morrison, former NSC aide, and Kurt Volker, former U.S. special envoy to Ukraine.

Quote:
Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said today that hopefully the Senate will work its way through “not too lengthy of a process” of a Senate impeachment trial. But he reiterated that it’s still too early for discussions about how the trial process will be carried out.

He spoke to reporters at a stakeout after the weekly policy lunches.

“It’s way too early to scope out or announce how we might handle impeachment,” McConnell said in response to a reporter question about some of his Republican colleagues asking to call witnesses to the Senate that the House decides not to call.

He continued: “We’re all having what-if discussions, but I think just laying out very hypotheticals now is not helpful.”

On how impeachment will first proceed in the House of Representatives, McConnell said, “The House is going to do what the House is going to do, and when they get through, as you all know, it comes over here, displaces all the business, and will be on it until senators decide it's time to reach a conclusion.”

He noted that if a trial happens in the Senate that a number of Democrats running for president will have to participate as jurors.

“A number of Democratic senators are running for president. I'm sure they're going to be excited to be here in their chairs not being able to say anything” during the trial.

So hopefully, we'll work our way through it and finish it, and not too lengthy of a process," McConnell said.


Warren, Sanders, Booker, Harris, Bennet, and Klobuchar

It does point to a lack of communication or strategic thought between the two Democratic caucuses. I'm sure the Democratic Senate caucus had to have communicated their misgivings on the schedule privately to Democratic House leadership at some point.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:20 pm 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
You are one of the most infuriating posters we've seen on here. You're not stupid, and you're not a wanker. But you have an extremely annoying habit of injecting your own obscure strawman arguments into random thread currents. No one is saying this is a master plan by Trump. What is being suggested here is that an unintended consequence of the Dems initiation of impeachment proceedings could be a disruption of their own candidates primary runs. Why and how is that hard to understand and what has caused you to run off in another direction?

IIRC Merry's words were "The Dem's walked straight into that one" and now he's talking about uncovering the "real corruption".

I don't think there are any Qanon types here (except maybe one of the Saffers and another Kiwi) but the conspiracy and BS spin keeps re-surfacing. I don't buy your typeing one handed and spilling your mickey into the keyboard schtick(he's a beast etc) but there's others who are kind of Qanon adjacent like Bill Mitchell for some of the nonsense. . Sending Giuliani to Ukraine was a mistake and if the bus rolls over him it won't just stop rolling. No amount of dirt or bad press for Hunter Biden will stop that.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:29 pm 
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Flyin Ryan wrote:
Struck me the Republican committee members went after Vindman more than Williams. It was implied whoever the whistleblower was if Vindman had contacted him was in the intelligence community. Nunes started asking who Vindman had talked to after being on the July 25th phone call, and Schiff stopped the questioning due to the question trying to determine the identity of the whistleblower.

Afternoon testimony from Tim Morrison, former NSC aide, and Kurt Volker, former U.S. special envoy to Ukraine.

Quote:
Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said today that hopefully the Senate will work its way through “not too lengthy of a process” of a Senate impeachment trial. But he reiterated that it’s still too early for discussions about how the trial process will be carried out.

He spoke to reporters at a stakeout after the weekly policy lunches.

“It’s way too early to scope out or announce how we might handle impeachment,” McConnell said in response to a reporter question about some of his Republican colleagues asking to call witnesses to the Senate that the House decides not to call.

He continued: “We’re all having what-if discussions, but I think just laying out very hypotheticals now is not helpful.”

On how impeachment will first proceed in the House of Representatives, McConnell said, “The House is going to do what the House is going to do, and when they get through, as you all know, it comes over here, displaces all the business, and will be on it until senators decide it's time to reach a conclusion.”

He noted that if a trial happens in the Senate that a number of Democrats running for president will have to participate as jurors.

“A number of Democratic senators are running for president. I'm sure they're going to be excited to be here in their chairs not being able to say anything” during the trial.

So hopefully, we'll work our way through it and finish it, and not too lengthy of a process," McConnell said.


Warren, Sanders, Booker, Harris, Bennet, and Klobuchar

It does point to a lack of communication or strategic thought between the two Democratic caucuses. I'm sure the Democratic Senate caucus had to have communicated their misgivings on the schedule privately to Democratic House leadership at some point.


Honestly, it doesn't matter though. Republicans will never find Trump guilty and they have the majority in the Senate. With Trump's overwhelming approval among Republican voters and the craven hypocrisy of the Republican senators this whole thing will never end with a successful impeachment, regardless of the evidence.

What it may do is expose to enough swing voters that the Republican party has no moral centre, and that the entire upper echelon of the party is in thrall to their horrific president. That the only alternative to Trumpism is Democrat, rather than moderate Republican.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:39 pm 
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4071 wrote:
Flyin Ryan wrote:
Struck me the Republican committee members went after Vindman more than Williams. It was implied whoever the whistleblower was if Vindman had contacted him was in the intelligence community. Nunes started asking who Vindman had talked to after being on the July 25th phone call, and Schiff stopped the questioning due to the question trying to determine the identity of the whistleblower.

Afternoon testimony from Tim Morrison, former NSC aide, and Kurt Volker, former U.S. special envoy to Ukraine.

Quote:
Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said today that hopefully the Senate will work its way through “not too lengthy of a process” of a Senate impeachment trial. But he reiterated that it’s still too early for discussions about how the trial process will be carried out.

He spoke to reporters at a stakeout after the weekly policy lunches.

“It’s way too early to scope out or announce how we might handle impeachment,” McConnell said in response to a reporter question about some of his Republican colleagues asking to call witnesses to the Senate that the House decides not to call.

He continued: “We’re all having what-if discussions, but I think just laying out very hypotheticals now is not helpful.”

On how impeachment will first proceed in the House of Representatives, McConnell said, “The House is going to do what the House is going to do, and when they get through, as you all know, it comes over here, displaces all the business, and will be on it until senators decide it's time to reach a conclusion.”

He noted that if a trial happens in the Senate that a number of Democrats running for president will have to participate as jurors.

“A number of Democratic senators are running for president. I'm sure they're going to be excited to be here in their chairs not being able to say anything” during the trial.

So hopefully, we'll work our way through it and finish it, and not too lengthy of a process," McConnell said.


Warren, Sanders, Booker, Harris, Bennet, and Klobuchar

It does point to a lack of communication or strategic thought between the two Democratic caucuses. I'm sure the Democratic Senate caucus had to have communicated their misgivings on the schedule privately to Democratic House leadership at some point.


Honestly, it doesn't matter though. Republicans will never find Trump guilty and they have the majority in the Senate. With Trump's overwhelming approval among Republican voters and the craven hypocrisy of the Republican senators this whole thing will never end with a successful impeachment, regardless of the evidence.

What it may do is expose to enough swing voters that the Republican party has no moral centre, and that the entire upper echelon of the party is in thrall to their horrific president. That the only alternative to Trumpism is Democrat, rather than moderate Republican.


It matters in the sense of the 6 sitting Democrat Senators cannot go across the country to campaign or even take part in debates maybe right on the eve of when most of the primaries are. (Are the Democrats going to move their televised debates during this time to only the D.C. area?) Per Politico, it's in Senate rules that during an impeachment trial, the Senate is in session 6 days a week and the Senators are jurors, meaning they sit there at their desks and don't speak. So it's not like it's a Committee hearing where they can grandstand for a televised soundbite.

An impeachment trial that's even relatively quick and resolved in late February is a major negative for Sanders, Warren, et al, and a major positive for everyone else (Biden, Buttigieg et al).


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 10:58 pm 
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Daniel Goldman...top Lawyering.

So what we have learnt is that Trump went off script when he raised Ukraine 2016 "interference", Burisma and the Bidens. Apparently these were not on the NSA talking points list.

Also, apparently it was a mistake that the transcript of Trump's and Zelensky's call was placed on the secure server. :lol: Yeah, right.

Edit: Nunes is shit, really shit. Pig shit thick.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:14 pm 
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The GOP lawyer’s question about taking a Ukrainian government role was pretty shitty.

Laura Ingraham would have been happy with it though


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:22 pm 
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When does Sondland come back for his grilling? Seems he has some splaining to do.

Goldman laid the ground work, and Morrison is on record saying that Sondland and Trump would talk via phone. It will interesting to see what Sondland has to say about his conversation that was overheard by Taylor's aide.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:19 am 
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So another Trumpeteer magically remembers where he left his car keys


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:37 am 
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So far, Trump...
1. Failed with Iran, Syria, Turkey, and the Middle East Peace Process
2. Failed with Russia & Ukraine
3. Failed with Venezuela and Bolivia
4. Failed with trade war
5. Failed with immigration
6. Kidnapped a Huawei executive
7. Set Hong Kong on fire
8. Stole an Iranian tanker
9. Stole a Venezuelan ship full of foods
10. Stole the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Golan Heights for the FAKE HEBREWS
11. Kept all wars in the Middle East going for APARTHEID Israel
12. Faked Epstein’s death who’s now living comfortably in Apartheid Israel
13. Faked it with N Korea
14. Does nothing but plays golf, tweets, and insults
15. Destroyed American farmers, coal miners, truckers, and manufacturers
16. Failed to hire competent staff
17. Failed to abolish the Fed
18. Failed to drain the Swamp
19. Failed to dismantle the Deep State
20. Failed the US economy

Have I missed anything of substance?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:22 am 
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Macrosan wrote:
So far, Trump...
1. Failed with Iran, Syria, Turkey, and the Middle East Peace Process
2. Failed with Russia & Ukraine
3. Failed with Venezuela and Bolivia
4. Failed with trade war
5. Failed with immigration
6. Kidnapped a Huawei executive
7. Set Hong Kong on fire
8. Stole an Iranian tanker
9. Stole a Venezuelan ship full of foods
10. Stole the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Golan Heights for the FAKE HEBREWS
11. Kept all wars in the Middle East going for APARTHEID Israel
12. Faked Epstein’s death who’s now living comfortably in Apartheid Israel
13. Faked it with N Korea
14. Does nothing but plays golf, tweets, and insults
15. Destroyed American farmers, coal miners, truckers, and manufacturers
16. Failed to hire competent staff
17. Failed to abolish the Fed
18. Failed to drain the Swamp
19. Failed to dismantle the Deep State
20. Failed the US economy

Have I missed anything of substance?


Yes...failed to find a balm to soothe his thin skin.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:58 am 
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At least he managed to get rid of Obamacare on day one though right? Right?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 3:59 am 
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Fat Old Git wrote:
At least he managed to get rid of Obamacare on day one though right? Right?


You are forgetting the wall he has built.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:08 am 
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Kiwias wrote:
Fat Old Git wrote:
At least he managed to get rid of Obamacare on day one though right? Right?


You are forgetting the wall he has built.


In my defense, day one was a long time ago now so it's easy to forget all that was achieved.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:43 am 
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So Pelosi is saying because the voters want an election (the weak response :lol: ) the Democrats need to impeach him? :uhoh:


Image


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:58 am 
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kiwinoz wrote:
So Pelosi is saying because the voters want an election (the weak response :lol: ) the Democrats need to impeach him? :uhoh:


That is one way to interpret it.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:03 am 
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kiwinoz wrote:
So Pelosi is saying because the voters want an election


Show me where it says she's referring to voters in that sentence.

FYI, most polls show a majority of voters are in favour of impeachment proceedings.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:32 am 
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Jay Cee Gee wrote:
kiwinoz wrote:
So Pelosi is saying because the voters want an election


Show me where it says she's referring to voters in that sentence.

FYI, most polls show a majority of voters are in favour of impeachment proceedings.


That will inevitably fail and yet voting him out is not an option? Seriously what are they smoking? As for her suggestion that the facts are uncontested :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:43 am 
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kiwinoz wrote:
Jay Cee Gee wrote:
kiwinoz wrote:
So Pelosi is saying because the voters want an election


Show me where it says she's referring to voters in that sentence.

FYI, most polls show a majority of voters are in favour of impeachment proceedings.


That will inevitably fail and yet voting him out is not an option? Seriously what are they smoking? As for her suggestion that the facts are uncontested :lol:


Well, firstly she doesn't say voting him out isn't an option, she's saying not to leave it solely to the election.
The inevitable failure can be viewed two ways.

From a Dem POV, idealistically it shouldn't matter - if they think Trump has committed an impeachable act they have a duty to initiate proceedings even if the GOP plan to refuse to fairly consider the merits of the case.

Pragmatically, the Dems obviously feel the GOP stance will play badly for them and Trump.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:19 am 
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Tucker "Where has the bowtie gone?" Carlson led with the shocking revelation that Vindman had been offered the job of Defense Secretary by the Ukraine govt and wondered why the MSM had not highlighted this.

Here is why.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/ukraine-p ... r?ref=home


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:26 am 
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4071 wrote:
Honestly, it doesn't matter though. Republicans will never find Trump guilty and they have the majority in the Senate. With Trump's overwhelming approval among Republican voters and the craven hypocrisy of the Republican senators this whole thing will never end with a successful impeachment, regardless of the evidence.

That's the mainstream view, and it's convincing, but there are caveats.

Republican senators aren't dummies. They won't go with what voters think now, but what they're likely to think when their own re-elections come due. Senate terms are six years, so there's a calculation to be made. How will indifference to obvious wrongdoing look then? Are their interests best served by voting to convict or dismiss?

Also, some may be thinking about how history might perceive them, or even about their own principles. The bedrock of conservatism is fiscal constraint. This administration has spent $4 trillion more than it taxed. So there's a calculation to be performed. Many of them [if they're real fiscal hawks] will prefer Pence. Many in the base [such as the evangelical right] would be perfectly happy with Pence. So what's the cost of riling the rest, if the outcome is Pence? With Pence, you get everything else, plus fiscal conservatism, and life becomes easy. You don't have to spend every day defending a pussy-grabbing employee-cheating reality TV grifter to the kids and the wife.

That's assuming that the impeachment process uncovers serious wrongdoing. Some conservatives [admittedly those without jobs on the line] think it already has. If Obama had done a tenth of what Trump has already admitted to, he'd have been sent back on the first boat to Kenya. But if it can be written off with faint condemnation it will be.


Last edited by 6.Jones on Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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