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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:21 pm 
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Trump or Seneca?

If it's the latter, you risk being reported to the Mods and a string of shrill hysterical posts demanding your banning.


Remember Rinkals I only have to be lucky once then the perma ban hammer comes down on you, oh yes.

Mmmmwwwaaaahhhhaaaa


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:22 pm 
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I wonder what impact reports that Trump's campaign was being investigated would have had prior to the election?

"FBI investigated meeting with Russians" etc. Would Hillary have been able to use "Lock him up!" To good effect in her campaign?

Iirc, she took a hit when it was announced they were reopening the done to death investigation into her emails just before the election.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:27 pm 
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Fat Old Git wrote:
I wonder what impact reports that Trump's campaign was being investigated would have had prior to the election?

"FBI investigated meeting with Russians" etc. Would Hillary have been able to use "Lock him up!" To good effect in her campaign?

Iirc, she took a hit when it was announced they were reopening the done to death investigation into her emails just before the election.


The email thing should have knocked her out cold as a candidate from the off. Bizarre and incomprehensible and either excuse - stupidity or malice - is unacceptable.

But as everyone can see now clearly, it was a stitch up candidacy. For various reasons the democrat hierarchy are really really scared of Bernie Saunders.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:30 pm 
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Doesn't it remain the case the Trump campaign wasn't under surveillance, but despite surrounding himself with the best people some people who became (tangentially or otherwise) associated with the Trump campaign were under surveillance because they were suspected or known to be doing things they shouldn't?

Why the above is more interesting today than Trump's lawyer saying damn right he's guilty I don't know.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:31 pm 
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piquant wrote:
Doesn't it remain the case the Trump campaign wasn't under surveillance, but despite surrounding himself with the best people some people who became (tangentially or otherwise) associated with the Trump campaign were under surveillance because they were suspected or known to be doing things they shouldn't?

Why the above is more interesting today than Trump's lawyer saying damn right he's guilty I don't know.


Nothing is interesting about the impeachment rubbish. Let it go.

Edit: I take that back. It will be intersting to watch the course of the rest of Adam Schiffs life, and at what point the men in White coats come for him.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:23 pm 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
Fat Old Git wrote:
I wonder what impact reports that Trump's campaign was being investigated would have had prior to the election?

"FBI investigated meeting with Russians" etc. Would Hillary have been able to use "Lock him up!" To good effect in her campaign?

Iirc, she took a hit when it was announced they were reopening the done to death investigation into her emails just before the election.


The email thing should have knocked her out cold as a candidate from the off. Bizarre and incomprehensible and either excuse - stupidity or malice - is unacceptable.

But as everyone can see now clearly, it was a stitch up candidacy. For various reasons the democrat hierarchy are really really scared of Bernie Saunders.


I wonder what Dawn French has to say about that?

But you're right. You're absolutely right the Democrats are an oligopoly, and Sanders threatens that.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 6:32 pm 
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The Man Without Fear wrote:
In more Obama related obsession news, Trump is looking to roll back healthy eating guidelines for schools as championed by Michelle Obama.

Meanwhile, the environment takes another kicking as the regulations relating to impact assessment look set to be eviscerated.

But I'm sure the backers, donors and dead eyed sociopath brigade will be delighted.


Just taking his foot off the hose


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:53 pm 
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6.Jones wrote:
You're right. It's not really whataboutery. Justifying your man's actions based on behaviors you deplored in his opponent is hypocrisy.

I think I'm becoming beady eyed.
I'm seeing hypocrisy everywhere.
Nothing but hypocrisy.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:01 pm 
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BillW wrote:
6.Jones wrote:
You're right. It's not really whataboutery. Justifying your man's actions based on behaviors you deplored in his opponent is hypocrisy.

I think I'm becoming beady eyed.
I'm seeing hypocrisy everywhere.
Nothing but hypocrisy.

tis true. if only there was some way to pull back the curtain on it all.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:54 am 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
Fat Old Git wrote:
I wonder what impact reports that Trump's campaign was being investigated would have had prior to the election?

"FBI investigated meeting with Russians" etc. Would Hillary have been able to use "Lock him up!" To good effect in her campaign?

Iirc, she took a hit when it was announced they were reopening the done to death investigation into her emails just before the election.


The email thing should have knocked her out cold as a candidate from the off. Bizarre and incomprehensible and either excuse - stupidity or malice - is unacceptable.

But as everyone can see now clearly, it was a stitch up candidacy. For various reasons the democrat hierarchy are really really scared of Bernie Saunders.


Yeah, it's hard to believe that an elderly women may not of had a complete understanding of how her IT system was set up.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:35 am 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
Trump comes in, takes his foot off the pipe (YOU'RE NOT MEANT TO DO THAT!), system is unblocked. Amazing.


Where is the flow coming from the unblocked hose? What are the concrete results that can be put firmly on Trump's credit? (Genuine question).

Second question - do these new policies benefit everybody, most, half or a minority of the US population?

Is Trump delivering a better today?

A better tomorrow?

And a better after tomorrow?


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:43 am 
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You see, the thing is I agree with almost all of that. The billionaire class are mainly rentiers who won a lottery [although there are some exceptions who built real businesses.]

The question is whether you can just throw a spanner in the works and it goes better. I know we've discussed this. You know I think Trump is a cunning media operator but not much else. Can you just take the foot off the pipe and everything works? It depends if economics is more like a bath or a space shuttle.

Like a motor taken apart by someone who doesn't know about details, a lot of the parts Trump is throwing away are there for a reason. Environmental protections gave the world clean skies and water to drink. There's more to progress than money. Otherwise why progress at all?

And in the meantime, he could involve us all in a war, by idiocy. I hope that gives you pause to wonder if Trump is as good as you want him to be. I hope he is too.


But, first of all, isn't Trump one of these phony billionaire?

Second, isn't he known for a succession of scams, bankruptcy and the like that left a lot of people in the streets? On this basis how can one think that he cares about the good of others (at least the US citizens) and that he can actually be a successful President? He wasn't even a successful businessman.

Third, he appears driven by a hate of all that is Obama and most of his policy has been about undoing what Obama did. Is that a true political vision?

Those are the questions I ask myself.

How can people hope that Trump is a man that has any interest in changing the USA for the better when all his life has been about himself?


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 2:58 am 
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6.Jones wrote:
One thing proper economists agree on is supply side economics is snake oil. There's no evidence that tax cuts to the rich increases growth. It increases savings.

Back to the foot off the pipe, the one thing Trump has done to encourage that, and only within the United States, is deregulation.


In France, a study done on the impact of Macron's controversial decision to cancel the tax on the richer people in France (ISF - impot sur la fortune) showed that it costed more to the State than it actually brought in terms of collective benefits, with little of that money saved by the rich being reinvested in the French economy.

As for deregulation, the USA example show that less regulations doesn't create a more competitive market benefiting the majority. Collisions between firms result in day light robbery (clue : the cost of TV + internet, the shit american airlines level of service), while at the same time putting tremendous pressure on the weaker ones to accept always less paid jobs, less benefits, less protection.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 5:12 am 
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These will come in handy when they invade the forest moon of Endor...

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canad ... GQTqXzCT8Y

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 5:41 am 
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:17 am 
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Can't believe the Republicans and Trump continuously ranting about the impeachment being an attack on the Americans' right of vote, duly ignoring that Americans gave by their votes a majority to the Democrats in the House


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:21 am 
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The American democratic system is an attack on democracy tbf. Not all votes are equal.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:14 am 
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:28 am 
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TheFrog wrote:
6.Jones wrote:
One thing proper economists agree on is supply side economics is snake oil. There's no evidence that tax cuts to the rich increases growth. It increases savings.

Back to the foot off the pipe, the one thing Trump has done to encourage that, and only within the United States, is deregulation.


In France, a study done on the impact of Macron's controversial decision to cancel the tax on the richer people in France (ISF - impot sur la fortune) showed that it costed more to the State than it actually brought in terms of collective benefits, with little of that money saved by the rich being reinvested in the French economy.

As for deregulation, the USA example show that less regulations doesn't create a more competitive market benefiting the majority. Collisions between firms result in day light robbery (clue : the cost of TV + internet, the shit american airlines level of service), while at the same time putting tremendous pressure on the weaker ones to accept always less paid jobs, less benefits, less protection.


One thing proper economists would hopefully agree on is that supply side economics isn't snake oil, and more it depends on the situation. Though they'd certainly agree it isn't always the right answer


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:03 am 
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piquant wrote:
TheFrog wrote:
6.Jones wrote:
One thing proper economists agree on is supply side economics is snake oil. There's no evidence that tax cuts to the rich increases growth. It increases savings.

Back to the foot off the pipe, the one thing Trump has done to encourage that, and only within the United States, is deregulation.


In France, a study done on the impact of Macron's controversial decision to cancel the tax on the richer people in France (ISF - impot sur la fortune) showed that it costed more to the State than it actually brought in terms of collective benefits, with little of that money saved by the rich being reinvested in the French economy.

As for deregulation, the USA example show that less regulations doesn't create a more competitive market benefiting the majority. Collisions between firms result in day light robbery (clue : the cost of TV + internet, the shit american airlines level of service), while at the same time putting tremendous pressure on the weaker ones to accept always less paid jobs, less benefits, less protection.


One thing proper economists would hopefully agree on is that supply side economics isn't snake oil, and more it depends on the situation. Though they'd certainly agree it isn't always the right answer

I guess I should've specified the Laffer Curve and trickle-down theory practised by Republicans.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:53 am 
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6.Jones wrote:
piquant wrote:
TheFrog wrote:
6.Jones wrote:
One thing proper economists agree on is supply side economics is snake oil. There's no evidence that tax cuts to the rich increases growth. It increases savings.

Back to the foot off the pipe, the one thing Trump has done to encourage that, and only within the United States, is deregulation.


In France, a study done on the impact of Macron's controversial decision to cancel the tax on the richer people in France (ISF - impot sur la fortune) showed that it costed more to the State than it actually brought in terms of collective benefits, with little of that money saved by the rich being reinvested in the French economy.

As for deregulation, the USA example show that less regulations doesn't create a more competitive market benefiting the majority. Collisions between firms result in day light robbery (clue : the cost of TV + internet, the shit american airlines level of service), while at the same time putting tremendous pressure on the weaker ones to accept always less paid jobs, less benefits, less protection.


One thing proper economists would hopefully agree on is that supply side economics isn't snake oil, and more it depends on the situation. Though they'd certainly agree it isn't always the right answer

I guess I should've specified the Laffer Curve and trickle-down theory practised by Republicans.


The only thing trickling from republicans is dribble.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:59 am 
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TheFrog wrote:
Can't believe the Republicans and Trump continuously ranting about the impeachment being an attack on the Americans' right of vote, duly ignoring that Americans gave by their votes a majority to the Democrats in the House

I can believe it. I get that they are talking to their base who have shit for brains.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:10 am 
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Anonymous. wrote:
TheFrog wrote:
Can't believe the Republicans and Trump continuously ranting about the impeachment being an attack on the Americans' right of vote, duly ignoring that Americans gave by their votes a majority to the Democrats in the House

I can believe it. I get that they are talking to their base who have shit for brains.


Their response to just about everything is a version of "no you are!".


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:56 pm 
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Trump's legal team are an interesting lot.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:22 pm 
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Fat Old Git wrote:
Trump's legal team are an interesting lot.


Sure are. Now, how about THIS for whataboutery:

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:34 pm 
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Fat Old Git wrote:
Trump's legal team are an interesting lot.


Yep, Trump sticking with a perfect phone call, and his legal team saying he's guilty but it doesn't warrant removal


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:04 am 
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Dershowitz saying it was an abuse of power, but founding fathers didn’t consider that grounds for removal :?

<insert Jason Bateman Dodgeball gif here>


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:40 am 
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Fat Old Git wrote:
Trump's legal team are an interesting lot.

The main Venn diagram takeaways are impeached Bill Clinton and defended Jeffrey Epstein.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 6:52 am 
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6.Jones wrote:
Fat Old Git wrote:
Trump's legal team are an interesting lot.

The main Venn diagram takeaways are impeached Bill Clinton and defended Jeffrey Epstein.


Thinly veiled Satan call out.

I think he has already mentioned twice on this thread that he saw the original Venn diagrams when he was a student at Cambridge.

Trump probably forgot that he had called Ken Starr fücking useless in the past.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:22 am 
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puku wrote:
6.Jones wrote:
Fat Old Git wrote:
Trump's legal team are an interesting lot.

The main Venn diagram takeaways are impeached Bill Clinton and defended Jeffrey Epstein.


Thinly veiled Satan call out.

I think he has already mentioned twice on this thread that he saw the original Venn diagrams when he was a student at Cambridge.

Trump probably forgot that he had called Ken Starr fücking useless in the past.


Is that Santa? I must ask him when he was at Cambridge.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:20 am 
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:29 am 
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https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jan/20/donald-trump-is-a-good-president-but-only-for-the-top-1

Quote:
Even judging by GDP, the Trump economy falls short. Last quarter’s growth was only 2.1%, far less than the 4%, 5% or even 6% Trump promised, and even less than the 2.4% average of Obama’s second term. That is a remarkably poor performance considering the stimulus provided by the $1tn deficit and ultra-low interest rates. This is not an accident or just a matter of bad luck: Trump’s brand is uncertainty, volatility and prevarication, whereas trust, stability, and confidence are essential for growth. So is equality, according to the International Monetary Fund.

So, Trump deserves failing grades not only on essential tasks such as upholding democracy and preserving our planet. He should not get a pass on the economy, either.


I'm sure our resident bored Trumpistas will have some kind words for Stiglitz...


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:38 am 
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Yes indeed. We shall see at the ballot box.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:02 pm 
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So, it started with individuals who monitor media outlets outside the MSM, pointing out inconvenient facts. Now senior Senators going public on the real situation.

'' Senator Rand Paul (R., Ky.) said Thursday that Joe and Hunter #Biden 's activity in Ukraine “goes to the heart of the matter” surrounding the upcoming #Impeachment trial in the Senate, and argued that #GOP senators must be willing to call President Trump’s preferred witnesses, or “all hell is going to break lose.”

Appearing on Hannity, Paul stated that he believed the alleged corruption perpetrated by Hunter Biden in his role on the board of a #Ukrainian gas company Burisma — while his father was overseeing official U.S. relations with Kyiv —needed to be explored.

“If the president is being accused of withholding foreign aid, and his argument is, ‘Well, we were studying corruption, and we wanted to know about corruption in Ukraine,’ and I think the Bidens are as corrupt as the day is long,” Paul argued. “No young man who is the son of a politician gets $50,000 a month who has no experience, working for a Ukrainian oligarch. You know, for goodness sakes — it smells to high heaven. It smells like chttps://www.nationalreview.com/news/ra ... &utm_mediu ''

Now Senate Leader Lindsay Graham holes Schiffs cunning plan below the water line.
'' If we call witnesses, we're calling ALL the witnesses.''


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:10 pm 
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Backwoodsman1 wrote:
So, it started with individuals who monitor media outlets outside the MSM, pointing out inconvenient facts. Now senior Senators going public on the real situation.

'' Senator Rand Paul (R., Ky.) said Thursday that Joe and Hunter #Biden 's activity in Ukraine “goes to the heart of the matter” surrounding the upcoming #Impeachment trial in the Senate, and argued that #GOP senators must be willing to call President Trump’s preferred witnesses, or “all hell is going to break lose.”

Appearing on Hannity, Paul stated that he believed the alleged corruption perpetrated by Hunter Biden in his role on the board of a #Ukrainian gas company Burisma — while his father was overseeing official U.S. relations with Kyiv —needed to be explored.

“If the president is being accused of withholding foreign aid, and his argument is, ‘Well, we were studying corruption, and we wanted to know about corruption in Ukraine,’ and I think the Bidens are as corrupt as the day is long,” Paul argued. “No young man who is the son of a politician gets $50,000 a month who has no experience, working for a Ukrainian oligarch. You know, for goodness sakes — it smells to high heaven. It smells like chttps://www.nationalreview.com/news/ra ... &utm_mediu ''

Now Senate Leader Lindsay Graham holes Schiffs cunning plan below the water line.
'' If we call witnesses, we're calling ALL the witnesses.''


That argument would hold more weight if Trump didn't employ his own unqualified children in official US government roles.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:12 pm 
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Backwoodsman1 wrote:
So, it started with individuals who monitor media outlets outside the MSM, pointing out inconvenient facts. Now senior Senators going public on the real situation.

'' Senator Rand Paul (R., Ky.) said Thursday that Joe and Hunter #Biden 's activity in Ukraine “goes to the heart of the matter” surrounding the upcoming #Impeachment trial in the Senate, and argued that #GOP senators must be willing to call President Trump’s preferred witnesses, or “all hell is going to break lose.”

Appearing on Hannity, Paul stated that he believed the alleged corruption perpetrated by Hunter Biden in his role on the board of a #Ukrainian gas company Burisma — while his father was overseeing official U.S. relations with Kyiv —needed to be explored.

“If the president is being accused of withholding foreign aid, and his argument is, ‘Well, we were studying corruption, and we wanted to know about corruption in Ukraine,’ and I think the Bidens are as corrupt as the day is long,” Paul argued. “No young man who is the son of a politician gets $50,000 a month who has no experience, working for a Ukrainian oligarch. You know, for goodness sakes — it smells to high heaven. It smells like chttps://www.nationalreview.com/news/ra ... &utm_mediu ''

Now Senate Leader Lindsay Graham holes Schiffs cunning plan below the water line.
'' If we call witnesses, we're calling ALL the witnesses.''


:lol: :lol: :lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:34 pm 
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https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trump-may-be-even-more-unpopular-than-his-approval-rating-shows/

Quote:
We have worked to develop a hopefully more nuanced approach to measuring presidential approval, where we ask respondents how favorably they feel toward Trump relative to other notable Republicans.


An interesting attempt to get around the problem of polarisation in polling presidential popularity. I'd like to see an independent group poll in that way from 2016 - I wonder how different that might look to current figures.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 4:07 pm 
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6.Jones wrote:
Backwoodsman1 wrote:
So, it started with individuals who monitor media outlets outside the MSM, pointing out inconvenient facts. Now senior Senators going public on the real situation.

'' Senator Rand Paul (R., Ky.) said Thursday that Joe and Hunter #Biden 's activity in Ukraine “goes to the heart of the matter” surrounding the upcoming #Impeachment trial in the Senate, and argued that #GOP senators must be willing to call President Trump’s preferred witnesses, or “all hell is going to break lose.”

Appearing on Hannity, Paul stated that he believed the alleged corruption perpetrated by Hunter Biden in his role on the board of a #Ukrainian gas company Burisma — while his father was overseeing official U.S. relations with Kyiv —needed to be explored.

“If the president is being accused of withholding foreign aid, and his argument is, ‘Well, we were studying corruption, and we wanted to know about corruption in Ukraine,’ and I think the Bidens are as corrupt as the day is long,” Paul argued. “No young man who is the son of a politician gets $50,000 a month who has no experience, working for a Ukrainian oligarch. You know, for goodness sakes — it smells to high heaven. It smells like chttps://www.nationalreview.com/news/ra ... &utm_mediu ''

Now Senate Leader Lindsay Graham holes Schiffs cunning plan below the water line.
'' If we call witnesses, we're calling ALL the witnesses.''



That argument would hold more weight if Trump didn't employ his own unqualified children in official US government roles.


If they want witnesses let them have witnesses


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:07 pm 
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piquant wrote:
6.Jones wrote:
Backwoodsman1 wrote:
So, it started with individuals who monitor media outlets outside the MSM, pointing out inconvenient facts. Now senior Senators going public on the real situation.

'' Senator Rand Paul (R., Ky.) said Thursday that Joe and Hunter #Biden 's activity in Ukraine “goes to the heart of the matter” surrounding the upcoming #Impeachment trial in the Senate, and argued that #GOP senators must be willing to call President Trump’s preferred witnesses, or “all hell is going to break lose.”

Appearing on Hannity, Paul stated that he believed the alleged corruption perpetrated by Hunter Biden in his role on the board of a #Ukrainian gas company Burisma — while his father was overseeing official U.S. relations with Kyiv —needed to be explored.

“If the president is being accused of withholding foreign aid, and his argument is, ‘Well, we were studying corruption, and we wanted to know about corruption in Ukraine,’ and I think the Bidens are as corrupt as the day is long,” Paul argued. “No young man who is the son of a politician gets $50,000 a month who has no experience, working for a Ukrainian oligarch. You know, for goodness sakes — it smells to high heaven. It smells like chttps://www.nationalreview.com/news/ra ... &utm_mediu ''

Now Senate Leader Lindsay Graham holes Schiffs cunning plan below the water line.
'' If we call witnesses, we're calling ALL the witnesses.''



That argument would hold more weight if Trump didn't employ his own unqualified children in official US government roles.


If they want witnesses let them have witnesses

My point was about the propriety of nepotism. Or nepotism by proxy in the case of Pudenda and Biden.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:20 pm 
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6.Jones wrote:
My point was about the propriety of nepotism. Or nepotism by proxy in the case of Pudenda and Biden.



This is the party that has Nunes denying he's met Parnas and saying it'd be very unlikely he's be taking calls from 'random people', but then faced with reality stumbles as far as saying he now recalls he's spoken to him on the phone but doesn't know who he is, and it was a random call in nature (now a random call rather than person) though good enough he told Parnas 'great, just speak to my staff and set it up' whatever it is - presumably he doesn't know how Parnas got his phone number, though I assume it's easy to get the phone number for senior Congressional figures

And not only are the GOP not cross about this they barely think it worth a mention, and certainly not worth a follow up. They're just very weird


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