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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:36 pm 
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Turbogoat wrote:
argus wrote:
Turbogoat wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote:
Trained cop against unhinged youngster. Don't cops have heavier tools in their patrol cars, usually (don't know if this cop had a patrol car handy )


As if the cop would have had any idea who or how many he was going up against.

Seriously, any cops who post on here... what's the approved procedure here?

I can't say I'm any less disappointed than anyone else that he didn't charge heroically into the school and save the lives of 17 people in there, but if he'd done so, he'd be hailed as an utter hero, showing incredible bravery, not just shuffled to one side as some cop just doing his job.


There was some recent commentary that the SOP was changed after Columbine in that the police used to set a perimeter and then clear each area inside systematically

The current SOP is for any and all responders to immediately go to the threat as quickly as possible

If this is SOP in Broward county then he did it act as he was expected to



OK, the only stuff I have on active shooter procedures for cops is that it's a Rapid deployment team of 4 up-armoured and better armed cops who make entry first, but it's hardly universal or really up to date. It does call for all available assets to get on scene asap, but that's to lock it down, not to kick the doors down and run in.


Is his basic job not to protect and serve, as well as stop a crime in progress?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:42 pm 
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argus wrote:
Turbogoat wrote:
argus wrote:
Turbogoat wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote:
Trained cop against unhinged youngster. Don't cops have heavier tools in their patrol cars, usually (don't know if this cop had a patrol car handy )


As if the cop would have had any idea who or how many he was going up against.

Seriously, any cops who post on here... what's the approved procedure here?

I can't say I'm any less disappointed than anyone else that he didn't charge heroically into the school and save the lives of 17 people in there, but if he'd done so, he'd be hailed as an utter hero, showing incredible bravery, not just shuffled to one side as some cop just doing his job.


There was some recent commentary that the SOP was changed after Columbine in that the police used to set a perimeter and then clear each area inside systematically

The current SOP is for any and all responders to immediately go to the threat as quickly as possible

If this is SOP in Broward county then he did it act as he was expected to



OK, the only stuff I have on active shooter procedures for cops is that it's a Rapid deployment team of 4 up-armoured and better armed cops who make entry first, but it's hardly universal or really up to date. It does call for all available assets to get on scene asap, but that's to lock it down, not to kick the doors down and run in.


Is his basic job not to protect and serve, as well as stop a crime in progress?


He waited outside for FOUR minutes.

That's it.

That's what's ended his career and had the President pouring shit on him.

Four minutes waiting outside an unknown situation where there is heavy gunfire with an unknown number of assailants and no intelligence about where the assailant(s) might be or what the situation inside would be.


But sure, he should have gone in as soon as he arrived - with his handgun - and saved the day... just like in a movie!


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:44 pm 
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Calm down

We are having a discussion on the SOP not making a personal judgement


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:45 pm 
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argus wrote:
Turbogoat wrote:
argus wrote:
Turbogoat wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote:
Trained cop against unhinged youngster. Don't cops have heavier tools in their patrol cars, usually (don't know if this cop had a patrol car handy )


As if the cop would have had any idea who or how many he was going up against.

Seriously, any cops who post on here... what's the approved procedure here?

I can't say I'm any less disappointed than anyone else that he didn't charge heroically into the school and save the lives of 17 people in there, but if he'd done so, he'd be hailed as an utter hero, showing incredible bravery, not just shuffled to one side as some cop just doing his job.


There was some recent commentary that the SOP was changed after Columbine in that the police used to set a perimeter and then clear each area inside systematically

The current SOP is for any and all responders to immediately go to the threat as quickly as possible

If this is SOP in Broward county then he did it act as he was expected to



OK, the only stuff I have on active shooter procedures for cops is that it's a Rapid deployment team of 4 up-armoured and better armed cops who make entry first, but it's hardly universal or really up to date. It does call for all available assets to get on scene asap, but that's to lock it down, not to kick the doors down and run in.


Is his basic job not to protect and serve, as well as stop a crime in progress?


Well that's sort of what I was trying to get at, what his training would have told him to do. I'm as disappointed as any that he didn't go in and save the day. Seeing monday morning quarterbacks giving him shit when they have never been in that situation gives me the shits though. (Trump& Co, not you)


Last edited by Turbogoat on Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:46 pm 
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Turbogoat wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote:
Dunno. Don't care, actually.

TG - you know the odds. If you take the badge you take the responsibility. People rely on you for that. Otherwise they would get other security.
Their trust was misplaced, in this instance.
Poor cop will remember this forever.


Quite agree he is going to have to live with that for the rest of his life.

I'm still waiting for somebody to show me any police training manual that says that a sole officer should enter a building before back up arrives after reports of shots being fired, however.

There's a genuinely unrealistic expectation that cops are here to lay down their lives for the public as part of their job description. Many do, but they get honoured for going beyond the call of duty, rather than just doing their damn job.



Quote:
"He's not a war hero," Trump explained, shocking the event's moderator. "He was a war hero because he was captured. I like people who weren't captured."


Sadly WTs memory doesn't extend that far back.

Trump has a very sketchy idea of what constitutes heroism; so it's hardly a surprise that his understanding of cowardice is similarly fucked up


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:48 pm 
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He probably spent 30 years in the police force and never had to fire his gun or come under fire

Then he is thrown into an unknown situation

We now know there was only one shooter but at the time many people thought there were two. Even
More difficult to enter in that case


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:56 pm 
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To TG

the local police chief in Broward - who called the deputy out yesterday- will have lots of explaining to do as his department did not act to multiple direct reports on this guy

The reports are that specific warnings were actually given to the school officer directly about this kid

If he passed those warnings up the line and no action was taken then we may see Sheriff Israel be forced out


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:58 pm 
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I feel sorry for that cop. It was a lose/lose situation. Go in heroically and probably get gunned down by superior firepower or do what he did and get branded as a coward. I bet his training wasn't sufficient for such a situation and I bet his pay packet was nowhere near sufficient to go into such a dicey situation with no idea what he was up against. Yet ignorant fools think he should have acted like some f**king movie hero and go in and save the day. I bet Wilsons Toffee in the same situation would have pissed and crapped himself and ran off and hid in a closet somewhere. Just like what Trump would have done. We all know that orange plum is a coward and history proves it.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:00 pm 
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4071 wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote:
paddyor wrote:
zzzz wrote:
Also worth reading:

https://thefederalist.com/2018/02/21/ho ... =hootsuite

The whole thing is getting more insane.

The federalist is never worth reading. Really, they get volunteer writers to put forward stupidly contrarian opinions. There's a current article comparing the students from the school shooting to Hitler youth.



Slavish obedience to a socialist agenda ?
Sounds very accurate.


What is the link between socialism and gun laws, btw?


Apparently dickless morons feel the need for guns to defend themselves against socialists


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:01 pm 
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argus wrote:
To TG

the local police chief in Broward - who called the deputy out yesterday- will have lots of explaining to do as his department did not act to multiple direct reports on this guy

The reports are that specific warnings were actually given to the school officer directly about this kid

If he passed those warnings up the line and no action was taken then we may see Sheriff Israel be forced out


This deputy is being hung out to dry. Police Chief and 'Commander' in Chief, doesn't get any worse. So when do the death threats first arrive, if not already, and when does he try and take his own life. Sad to see all this shit play out.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:01 pm 
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Davedj77 wrote:
I feel sorry for that cop. It was a lose/lose situation. Go in heroically and probably get gunned down by superior firepower or do what he did and get branded as a coward. I bet his training wasn't sufficient for such a situation and I bet his pay packet was nowhere near sufficient to go into such a dicey situation with no idea what he was up against. Yet ignorant fools think he should have acted like some f**king movie hero and go in and save the day. I bet Wilsons Toffee in the same situation would have pissed and crapped himself and ran off and hid in a closet somewhere. Just like what Trump would have done. We all know that orange plum is a coward and history proves it.


He will always be compared to those who did confront the shooter

The football coach for one who went into the building and was killed


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:14 pm 
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Ahh, but in all this, we've discovered the cure all, the infallible excuse - just. "Blame Trump !"


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:16 pm 
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Did ten minutes of reading

Police are not legally required to protect civilians

Even if a crime is being actively committed

Difficult to understand the decision


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:23 pm 
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Wilson's Toffee wrote:
Ahh, but in all this, we've discovered the cure all, the infallible excuse - just. "Blame Trump !"


Well, given how quick he was to blame the shooting on mental health issues, it's a bit unfortunate that the only legislation he passed regarding gun control was to make it easier for those with serious mental health issues to obtain a gun.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/02/15/poli ... index.html

His proposed budget (from a couple of days before this latest shooting, but after rather a lot), actually guts the school security funding, and also eliminates a school program for dealing with mental health, bullying and other issues which may well have contributed to this and other shootings.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/ ... ion-348968


Last edited by Turbogoat on Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:24 pm 
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argus wrote:
Did ten minutes of reading

Police are not legally required to protect civilians

Even if a crime is being actively committed

Difficult to understand the decision


Elf 'n Safety gorn mad.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:27 pm 
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Yeah, Making America Great Again.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:28 pm 
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You want to tell me Trump was wrong in saying Cruz had mental problems ?
Way I read it the problems come a LONG way, mostly from the time of Obama .... Maybe further back

Unfortunate sod went total bananas and now it is TRUMP ?! Yeah...


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:30 pm 
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mr bungle wrote:
argus wrote:
To TG

the local police chief in Broward - who called the deputy out yesterday- will have lots of explaining to do as his department did not act to multiple direct reports on this guy

The reports are that specific warnings were actually given to the school officer directly about this kid

If he passed those warnings up the line and no action was taken then we may see Sheriff Israel be forced out


This deputy is being hung out to dry. Police Chief and 'Commander' in Chief, doesn't get any worse. So when do the death threats first arrive, if not already, and when does he try and take his own life. Sad to see all this shit play out.


He is being guarded by deputies currently


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:32 pm 
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Quote:
Samuel Sinyangwe

@samswey
After Columbine over 10,000 school police officers were hired just in case a school shooting happened. Two decades later, they haven't stopped a *single* school shooting. Instead they've arrested over 1 million kids, mostly students of color, for routine behavior violations. https://twitter.com/Complex/status/966900804207521796

12:10 AM - Feb 23, 2018


Also, regarding the School Safety Officer

Funny how, the fear of impending death is a defense when they don't go in but also a defense when a black guy reaches for his wallet. You wanted to be a hero, go be a hero!!

Notice I said impending death. Because if you have a hand gun and the other guy has a AR-15, you get one shot (maybe) and it has to be a kill shot before you get shot up.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:33 pm 
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Wilson's Toffee wrote:
You want to tell me Trump was wrong in saying Cruz had mental problems ?
Way I read it the problems come a LONG way, mostly from the time of Obama .... Maybe further back

Unfortunate sod went total bananas and now it is TRUMP ?! Yeah...


Different sides of the same coin

- police do not do enough to protect us therefore we need weapons

Or

- we don't need these weapons on the street as the checks and balances can not stop the crazies getting them


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:42 pm 
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So then the civilians just will have to do the job themselves. Private security. Or a militia ...

Can become a fad, actually . "Going to do some school duty for the kids, tonight. Sort out some stuff, straighten out a few bent ones. " {Hitches up his 12 gauge and stomps off)


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:43 pm 
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Deadtigers wrote:
Quote:
Samuel Sinyangwe

@samswey
After Columbine over 10,000 school police officers were hired just in case a school shooting happened. Two decades later, they haven't stopped a *single* school shooting. Instead they've arrested over 1 million kids, mostly students of color, for routine behavior violations. https://twitter.com/Complex/status/966900804207521796

12:10 AM - Feb 23, 2018


Also, regarding the School Safety Officer

Funny how, the fear of impending death is a defense when they don't go in but also a defense when a black guy reaches for his wallet. You wanted to be a hero, go be a hero!!

Notice I said impending death. Because if you have a hand gun and the other guy has a AR-15, you get one shot (maybe) and it has to be a kill shot before you get shot up.


Are these recently ex-high school kids really that accurate wth an AR15?? They seem to fire way more rounds that miss than hit anyone else.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:45 pm 
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Sandstorm wrote:
Deadtigers wrote:
Quote:
Samuel Sinyangwe

@samswey
After Columbine over 10,000 school police officers were hired just in case a school shooting happened. Two decades later, they haven't stopped a *single* school shooting. Instead they've arrested over 1 million kids, mostly students of color, for routine behavior violations. https://twitter.com/Complex/status/966900804207521796

12:10 AM - Feb 23, 2018


Also, regarding the School Safety Officer

Funny how, the fear of impending death is a defense when they don't go in but also a defense when a black guy reaches for his wallet. You wanted to be a hero, go be a hero!!

Notice I said impending death. Because if you have a hand gun and the other guy has a AR-15, you get one shot (maybe) and it has to be a kill shot before you get shot up.


Are these recently ex-high school kids really that accurate wth an AR15?? They seem to fire way more rounds that miss than hit anyone else.


He killed 17 and wounded another 14


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:46 pm 
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Wilson's Toffee wrote:
You want to tell me Trump was wrong in saying Cruz had mental problems ?
Way I read it the problems come a LONG way, mostly from the time of Obama .... Maybe further back

Unfortunate sod went total bananas and now it is TRUMP ?! Yeah...



Yeah. The point of the previous post was to chastise Trump for accusing the shooter of having mental problems... it didn't refer to legislation and budgets of his that would make it considerably easier for people with mental health issues to shoot up schools, complete with references at all.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:48 pm 
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Wilson's Toffee wrote:
You want to tell me Trump was wrong in saying Cruz had mental problems ?
Way I read it the problems come a LONG way, mostly from the time of Obama .... Maybe further back

Unfortunate sod went total bananas and now it is TRUMP ?! Yeah...


You've lost it, chap. Stark raving bonkers.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:48 pm 
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argus wrote:
Sandstorm wrote:
Deadtigers wrote:
Quote:
Samuel Sinyangwe

@samswey
After Columbine over 10,000 school police officers were hired just in case a school shooting happened. Two decades later, they haven't stopped a *single* school shooting. Instead they've arrested over 1 million kids, mostly students of color, for routine behavior violations. https://twitter.com/Complex/status/966900804207521796

12:10 AM - Feb 23, 2018


Also, regarding the School Safety Officer

Funny how, the fear of impending death is a defense when they don't go in but also a defense when a black guy reaches for his wallet. You wanted to be a hero, go be a hero!!

Notice I said impending death. Because if you have a hand gun and the other guy has a AR-15, you get one shot (maybe) and it has to be a kill shot before you get shot up.


Are these recently ex-high school kids really that accurate wth an AR15?? They seem to fire way more rounds that miss than hit anyone else.


He killed 17 and wounded another 14


7/10. Must do better






:uhoh:


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:50 pm 
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Wilson's Toffee wrote:
So then the civilians just will have to do the job themselves. Private security. Or a militia ...

Can become a fad, actually . "Going to do some school duty for the kids, tonight. Sort out some stuff, straighten out a few bent ones. " {Hitches up his 12 gauge and stomps off)


I've seen a documentary about that

Image

Image


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:51 pm 
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WT in “it was the black guys fault” surprise.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:52 pm 
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Ted. wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote:
You want to tell me Trump was wrong in saying Cruz had mental problems ?
Way I read it the problems come a LONG way, mostly from the time of Obama .... Maybe further back

Unfortunate sod went total bananas and now it is TRUMP ?! Yeah...


You've lost it, chap. Stark raving bonkers.



Am I supposed to go hand in my firearms, now ?

Or go on a shooting spree..


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:53 pm 
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Turbogoat wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote:
So then the civilians just will have to do the job themselves. Private security. Or a militia ...

Can become a fad, actually . "Going to do some school duty for the kids, tonight. Sort out some stuff, straighten out a few bent ones. " {Hitches up his 12 gauge and stomps off)


I've seen a documentary about that

Image

Image

Where is Tom Berrenger when he is needed


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:54 pm 
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houtkabouter wrote:
WT in “it was the black guys fault” surprise.

:yawn:


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:55 pm 
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Wilson's Toffee wrote:
Ted. wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote:
You want to tell me Trump was wrong in saying Cruz had mental problems ?
Way I read it the problems come a LONG way, mostly from the time of Obama .... Maybe further back

Unfortunate sod went total bananas and now it is TRUMP ?! Yeah...


You've lost it, chap. Stark raving bonkers.



Am I supposed to go hand in my firearms, now ?

Or go on a shooting spree..


You are supposed to do the right thing.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:56 pm 
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Ted. wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote:
Ted. wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote:
You want to tell me Trump was wrong in saying Cruz had mental problems ?
Way I read it the problems come a LONG way, mostly from the time of Obama .... Maybe further back

Unfortunate sod went total bananas and now it is TRUMP ?! Yeah...


You've lost it, chap. Stark raving bonkers.



Am I supposed to go hand in my firearms, now ?

Or go on a shooting spree..


You are supposed to do the right thing.
blame Obama?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:56 pm 
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Can someone give me the short summary of WT points


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:59 pm 
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argus wrote:
Can someone give me the short summary of WT points

it was Obama’s fault.
But Hillary.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:01 pm 
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argus wrote:
Can someone give me the short summary of WT points

Foot firmly in mouth


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:02 pm 
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argus wrote:
Can someone give me the short summary of WT points


1. .....


MAGA !!!!


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:35 pm 
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Armed police can't do the job. What hope do teachers and teacher's aids?

The biggest poltroon in all this is Trump and his NRA loving cronies who don't have the balls to stand up to what is an industry group. I read that some mealy mouthed, cowardly politician (was it Rubio?) even suggested that restricting magazine size was contrary to the 2nd Amendment.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:36 pm 
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Santa wrote:
paddyor wrote:
Santa wrote:
paddyor wrote:
Santa wrote:
I see that the new Manafort charges still have no connection with Trump's campaign and do not appear to evidence any collusion. This is a let down guys. You're usually so reliable on this atuff.

Aside from the campaign chairman and Flynn. None. None whatsoever. Nothingburger.

Quote:
Breaking - apparently Mueller has 3 sealed warrants destined for the UK Any ideas as to the lucky winners ?


Think we all know who one of them is.


The charges you dildo the charges. Not the man. It's all right there in the word charges.

I think what you mean is this.

Quote:
The charges do not involve Mr. Trump or his campaign and are not significantly different from ones filed against the men in October.


But if Manafort was engaged in fraud(apparently part of the paper trail is him sending gates a word doc to convert to PDF) while campaign chairman then they are "connected" to the campaign. Happy to clarify dipshit.


The charges used to be about money laundering, failure to register as foreign agents, and conspiracy against the United States. They have been discontinued. The new 32 are wholly new charges for different crimes.

Charges 1-20 are tax related and pertain to the period 2010 to 2014. The rest are bank fraud charges some of which allegedly occurred in 2016 and there is no hint that they (the charges) had anything to do with the campaign. :lol:

Jesus you guys are desperate aren't you.

Yes, WE are desperate.

Gates has plea bargained.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:44 pm 
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Ted. wrote:
Armed police can't do the job. What hope do teachers and teacher's aids?

The biggest poltroon in all this is Trump and his NRA loving cronies who don't have the balls to stand up to what is an industry group. I read that some mealy mouthed, cowardly politician (was it Rubio?) even suggested that restricting magazine size was contrary to the 2nd Amendment.


Latest report is maybe Russia money got to Trump through the NRA

that is really bringing the pieces together


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