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Yeah when they start gassing millions let's talk Nazis. At the moment they're only as bad as social workers.The Man Without Fear wrote:The question is, who are the people comfortable going to work knowing their job is to separate kids from their parents and chuck them in a holding pen in Texas?
Just following orders, I suppose.
I would think it is a no brainer. Keep them together unless you deport the child back to a relative that the parent(s) approve of.Santa wrote:My original point was to ask whether it is worse to detain together or apart. Whether or not it's a policy decision is irrelevant to that question. Because the issue seems to be about separating the children more than anything else.
America is asleep at the wheel arguing about transgender bathrooms, gay wedding cakes and the second amendment while Russia is re-establishing their position as a global super power and China is buying up vast swathes of land to build a massive trans-continental trade network that will support their growth for decades to come. Trump is isolating the States from everybody and that protectionism always backfires in the long run.Santa wrote:As to the rest of your point about immigrants, well yes, some of us have been saying that kind of thing for a while. Still moral standing starts to mean less and less when you're faced with an existential crisis. At that point it's all about survival. I think China and Russia can respect that. And when it's a real crisis time for the US you can bet it will be as bad or worse elsewhere.
Blake wrote:The point still stands that this situation now is due to a policy decision.
Immigrants (and their children) were detained together until a course of action could be determined, be it granting asylum, prosecution for other crimes or deportation ("Release").
The decision now to prosecute ALL immigrants for illegal crossing forces the issue. Parents have to be transferred to federal holding and laws on the books state that children are not allowed to accompany them there...but you know all of this.
The logic behind this approach makes little sense to me. It is not a deterrent. If I live in an environment where my children are in constant danger of getting killed by cartels or gangs, I'll still try to get into the US, even at the risk of getting caught and separated. Is it still a horrific outcome as a parent? Absolutely, but I'm going to take the risk and hope for the best. It is still preferable to losing my child and nobody thinks they are going to get caught before committing a crime.
It's a no win situation for Trump and the USA. The immigrants are going to keep coming regardless of their hardline approach; and Russia and China will watch with glee as whatever is left of America's perceived moral standing in the world slips away.
He is his own worst enemy.Wilson's Toffee wrote:Blake wrote: It's a no win situation for Trump and the USA.
The desired outcome for the "Resistance" bunch. After all, to make an omelette you have to break some eggs .... and if those eggs are other peoples' offspring, it might be a bargain.
as long as it doesnt back fire before Trump2020 i dont think he gives a sh1tBlake wrote:I would think it is a no brainer. Keep them together unless you deport the child back to a relative that the parent(s) approve of.Santa wrote:My original point was to ask whether it is worse to detain together or apart. Whether or not it's a policy decision is irrelevant to that question. Because the issue seems to be about separating the children more than anything else.
What is the goal of criminal prosecution anyway? Surely the US isn't going to incarcerate the parents on the US tax payer dime. They are just going to hold them, take them to trial, sentence them and deport them anyway; which nothing to stop them attempting a crossing again. As futile as catch and release is, they will effectively be doing the same thing now...just at a much higher financial, social and reputational cost.
Doesn't seem very pragmatic, but that is because it is just a play. Trump is trying to paint the Dems as the bad guys in this. Let's see if that works this time.
America is asleep at the wheel arguing about transgender bathrooms, gay wedding cakes and the second amendment while Russia is re-establishing their position as a global super power and China is buying up vast swathes of land to build a massive trans-continental trade network that will support their growth for decades to come. Trump is isolating the States from everybody and that protectionism always backfires in the long run.Santa wrote:As to the rest of your point about immigrants, well yes, some of us have been saying that kind of thing for a while. Still moral standing starts to mean less and less when you're faced with an existential crisis. At that point it's all about survival. I think China and Russia can respect that. And when it's a real crisis time for the US you can bet it will be as bad or worse elsewhere.
It won't, they have him by the nuts on this irrespective of whose fault it is. He needs to take some kind of action.Blake wrote:Doesn't seem very pragmatic, but that is because it is just a play. Trump is trying to paint the Dems as the bad guys in this. Let's see if that works this time.
That is appalling language to use...is he making a run for President?Seneca of the Night wrote:Peter fonda:
https://twitter.com/iamfonda/status/100 ... 19712?s=19Kristjen Nielsen is a lying gash that should be put in a cage and poked at by passersby. The gash should be pilloried in Lafayette Square naked and whipped by passersby while being filmed for posterity.
There are a lot of grade A narcissists and egomaniacs out there for sure, but I'm trying to think of who could be bad enough to make me vote for Trump over them...Sean Penn at his pretentious drivelling worst? Even then I would still take the idiot democrat because they would at least hire reasonable people around them. I really do hate Sean Penn though. What a cock.Seneca of the Night wrote:Hollywood nutters are all megalomaniacs; they really really really hate that trump blowharded his way to the presidency and not them.penguin wrote:That is appalling language to use...is he making a run for President?Seneca of the Night wrote:Peter fonda:
https://twitter.com/iamfonda/status/100 ... 19712?s=19Kristjen Nielsen is a lying gash that should be put in a cage and poked at by passersby. The gash should be pilloried in Lafayette Square naked and whipped by passersby while being filmed for posterity.
I just had a quick wank to that Maddow footage. Does she have form for crying or is this simply the saddest tragedy she has ever covered?Seneca of the Night wrote:A few of my Swedish friends are declaring on Facebook that they are going to boycott American goods, posted using Apple or Android phones.
Just when you think liberals can't get any more literally insane at literally Hitler everywhere, they get more insane. I see Maddow is now crying on TV.
I suspect you would pleasure yourself over an image of a squashed female cane toad.Santa wrote:I just had a quick wank to that Maddow footage. Does she have form for crying or is this simply the saddest tragedy she has ever covered?Seneca of the Night wrote:A few of my Swedish friends are declaring on Facebook that they are going to boycott American goods, posted using Apple or Android phones.
Just when you think liberals can't get any more literally insane at literally Hitler everywhere, they get more insane. I see Maddow is now crying on TV.
Why do they do it on taco night?puku wrote:I suspect you would pleasure yourself over an image of a squashed female cane toad.Santa wrote:I just had a quick wank to that Maddow footage. Does she have form for crying or is this simply the saddest tragedy she has ever covered?Seneca of the Night wrote:A few of my Swedish friends are declaring on Facebook that they are going to boycott American goods, posted using Apple or Android phones.
Just when you think liberals can't get any more literally insane at literally Hitler everywhere, they get more insane. I see Maddow is now crying on TV.
In other news, perhaps Trump can explain to the good folks from the Iron Range at his Duluth rally today how slapping tariffs on steel imports is good for an export driven business like taconite ore mining.
It's a weak solution. Can easily be overturned by the next Democrat president.Rugby2023 wrote:Trump is reckoned to be going to sign an executive order to prevent the family separation at the border.
Reads like satireSeneca of the Night wrote:Gotta love max boot in the wapo:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/glo ... 9b37367bc7If only we could keep the hard-working Latin American newcomers and deport the contemptible Republican cowards — that would truly enhance America’s greatness.
The GOp were on a hiding to nothing in the mid terms if he didn't change course.Rugby2023 wrote:Trump is reckoned to be going to sign an executive order to prevent the family separation at the border.
An anti-tariff Democrat is the worst kind. How about asking the more numerous steelworkers in Ohio and PA, most from traditionally Dem families, how they feel about it.puku wrote:In other news, perhaps Trump can explain to the good folks from the Iron Range at his Duluth rally today how slapping tariffs on steel imports is good for an export driven business like taconite ore mining.
I suspect it does require Congressional action but the Executive Order just needs to stay in place until that happens, assuming Congress can act before the Executive Order is challenged in front of a Federal Judge.paddyor wrote:
Hmmm. So it din't need congressional action.
Michael Moore
21 hrs ·
Ah, America! We've gone from separating Indian babies from their parents (and then exterminating them), to stealing babies from their slave parents (and then re-selling them into slavery), to building a country on child labor (working in factories as young as 8-yrs. old), to incarcerating Japanese-American toddlers in internment camps, to allowing priests to sexually abuse children for decades, to forcing buckets of high-fructose corn syrup down kids’ throats until half of them are part of a childhood obesity epidemic, to turning our schools into killing fields because we love our guns more than we love our kids -- who the hell are we kidding? Stop being shocked and surprised that Trump is kidnapping Hispanic children from their parents as if "this isn't who we are!" Yes, it is. It has ALWAYS been who we are. Don't say Trump is violating "our American values." Abusing children IS an historic American value. Be proud, America -- Trump is us.
(In order to stop this madness we need to stop telling each other fairy tales about the past and confront the present by putting our bodies on the line for these kids. Find out where in your area they have stashed the children Homeland Security have kidnapped (18 states have jails where they've put these kids — in my area, it's a Betsy DeVos-funded joint called "Bethany Christian Services" in Grand Rapids, MI) — go there, surround the building and refuse to leave until the children are reunited with their parents. If these were your kids, that's EXACTLY what you would do. They are your kids.)
It was supposed to say man's laughter.Mr Mike wrote:Anything more on Manafort being hit with 5 charges of manslaughter?
For sure, if he strung it out eventually his own base would have turned on him. Kids are an emotive tool in US politics, they have been used numerous times in the past to win public support for sending US troops to war.paddyor wrote:The GOp were on a hiding to nothing in the mid terms if he didn't change course.Rugby2023 wrote:Trump is reckoned to be going to sign an executive order to prevent the family separation at the border.
So what he's saying is he's against American values.Enzedder wrote:Trump couldn't handle the thought of Michael Moore's army getting imvolved
Michael Moore
21 hrs ·
Ah, America! We've gone from separating Indian babies from their parents (and then exterminating them), to stealing babies from their slave parents (and then re-selling them into slavery), to building a country on child labor (working in factories as young as 8-yrs. old), to incarcerating Japanese-American toddlers in internment camps, to allowing priests to sexually abuse children for decades, to forcing buckets of high-fructose corn syrup down kids’ throats until half of them are part of a childhood obesity epidemic, to turning our schools into killing fields because we love our guns more than we love our kids -- who the hell are we kidding? Stop being shocked and surprised that Trump is kidnapping Hispanic children from their parents as if "this isn't who we are!" Yes, it is. It has ALWAYS been who we are. Don't say Trump is violating "our American values." Abusing children IS an historic American value. Be proud, America -- Trump is us.
(In order to stop this madness we need to stop telling each other fairy tales about the past and confront the present by putting our bodies on the line for these kids. Find out where in your area they have stashed the children Homeland Security have kidnapped (18 states have jails where they've put these kids — in my area, it's a Betsy DeVos-funded joint called "Bethany Christian Services" in Grand Rapids, MI) — go there, surround the building and refuse to leave until the children are reunited with their parents. If these were your kids, that's EXACTLY what you would do. They are your kids.)
The order is likely to be found illegal if challengedMr Mike wrote:I suspect it does require Congressional action but the Executive Order just needs to stay in place until that happens, assuming Congress can act before the Executive Order is challenged in front of a Federal Judge.paddyor wrote:
Hmmm. So it din't need congressional action.
YepTaffia wrote:You missed Fonda's best tweet.....
Since been deleted after the Secret Service and FBI were alerted to it.
Hollyweird keeping it real.
Is 'Pandas' Tucker's pet name for DJT during sex ?paddyor wrote:YepTaffia wrote:You missed Fonda's best tweet.....
Since been deleted after the Secret Service and FBI were alerted to it.
Hollyweird keeping it real.
True, but when faced with a Republican dominated congress its the only viable solution in the short to medium term.Santa wrote:It's a weak solution. Can easily be overturned by the next Democrat president.Rugby2023 wrote:Trump is reckoned to be going to sign an executive order to prevent the family separation at the border.
If only the Dems would have\will work with the moderate Republicans to fix this long term, the loons at the extreme of the Republican party see this as a loss, marginalising them would be a good thingpigsy wrote:True, but when faced with a Republican dominated congress its the only viable solution in the short to medium term.Santa wrote:It's a weak solution. Can easily be overturned by the next Democrat president.Rugby2023 wrote:Trump is reckoned to be going to sign an executive order to prevent the family separation at the border.
The Republicans keep on trying to tack billions of funding for the wall onto every bill. The Dems are never going to vote for that._fatprop wrote:If only the Dems would have\will work with the moderate Republicans to fix this long term, the loons at the extreme of the Republican party see this as a loss, marginalising them would be a good thingpigsy wrote:True, but when faced with a Republican dominated congress its the only viable solution in the short to medium term.Santa wrote:It's a weak solution. Can easily be overturned by the next Democrat president.Rugby2023 wrote:Trump is reckoned to be going to sign an executive order to prevent the family separation at the border.
So will the GOP losing both houses; & ones a damn sight cheaper, & more likely than the other._fatprop wrote:The wall may stop these kiddies being locked up
It won't help, if it happensfishfoodie wrote:So will the GOP losing both houses; & ones a damn sight cheaper, & more likely than the other._fatprop wrote:The wall may stop these kiddies being locked up
The point of a boycott is to hurt them in the pocket not avoid using goods you've already paid for.Seneca of the Night wrote:A few of my Swedish friends are declaring on Facebook that they are going to boycott American goods, posted using Apple or Android phones.
Just when you think liberals can't get any more literally insane at literally Hitler everywhere, they get more insane. I see Maddow is now crying on TV.