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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:50 pm 
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Maybe what I am about to say will be a bit controversial, but this place is all about open debate, so let me try?

When I grew up, the "Swart Gevaar" was the boogie man that was used to keep you in line. Better study, better perform, better conform, better focus, better be disciplined, or "Die Swart Gevaar" will overtake you. And it really worked! In the process a lot of us whites developed a work ethic that automatically gives you an advantage.

Yes, it's grounded in fear and racism, but no less effective. I see that same focus and discipline in my black colleagues that become really successful. They have similar stories to tell of parents that groomed them for big things, forcing them into a good work ethic despite adversary, forfeiting themselves to make this happen.

Maybe that is the real privilege? Being forced to do your best, having parents that engage in your life? And therein I think Apartheid's biggest sin lies, it separated parents from children in a big way, damaging families in the process.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:55 pm 
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Bloutoria wrote:
Maybe what I am about to say will be a bit controversial, but this place is all about open debate, so let me try?

When I grew up, the "Swart Gevaar" was the boogie man that was used to keep you in line. Better study, better perform, better conform, better focus, better be disciplined, or "Die Swart Gevaar" will overtake you. And it really worked! In the process a lot of us whites developed a work ethic that automatically gives you an advantage.

Yes, it's grounded in fear and racism, but no less effective. I see that same focus and discipline in my black colleagues that become really successful. They have similar stories to tell of parents that groomed them for big things, forcing them into a good work ethic despite adversary, forfeiting themselves to make this happen.

Maybe that is the real privilege? Being forced to do your best, having parents that engage in your life? And therein I think Apartheid's biggest sin lies, it separated parents from children in a big way, damaging families in the process.


Agree with every word.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:44 am 
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I've been having a few thoughts about Assfly's comments that the attitude of whites to the black majority of this country is unimportant and makes very little impact. And also that race relations are bad and getting worse.

Last Friday I travelled by bus from Johannesburg to Estcourt. I was the only white on the bus (it wasn't a 'coach'), but I was treated with great curtsey, with some of the other passengers going to great lengths to make sure I was comfortable.

I think, when you mix with other races at that level, you realise how important mutual respect is.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:54 am 
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Rinkals wrote:
I've been having a few thoughts about Assfly's comments that the attitude of whites to the black majority of this country is unimportant and makes very little impact.


I said no such thing :lol:

My argument is that the debate around so-called white privilege is a debate that will achieve little without some sort of action behind it. Even is white do publicly recognise the privileged position that they have in society, what does that actually do to change the situation of the less-privileged? That questions remains unanswered.

Rinkals wrote:
And also that race relations are bad and getting worse.

Last Friday I travelled by bus from Johannesburg to Estcourt. I was the only white on the bus (it wasn't a 'coach'), but I was treated with great curtsey, with some of the other passengers going to great lengths to make sure I was comfortable.

I think, when you mix with other races at that level, you realise how important mutual respect is.


It's nice that you can do that on a bus, and sometimes I wonder if race relations are better outside of the main urban areas.

My opinion on race relations comes from living in Kenya at the moment, after spending a year in Cape Town last year. The hostility between races in South Africa is another level, on both sides of the fence.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:01 am 
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I don't support Assfly's assertion. There are polarising ends but by far and large people laugh, chat and discuss. Generally South Africans get on pretty well.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:04 am 
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Fair enough. I'm glad your experience is more positive than mine.

Perhaps my time away from SA made me more sensitive to the racial undertones I experienced. Coming back to SA on holiday, I remember being shocked by the the "braai talk" with my fiends.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:08 am 
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assfly wrote:
Fair enough. I'm glad your experience is more positive than mine.

Perhaps my time away from SA made me more sensitive to the racial undertones I experienced. Coming back to SA on holiday, I remember being shocked by the the "braai talk" with my fiends.


Occasionally I hear that sort of thing but mostly in anger at the latest statements from politicians or some other complete stupidity. Rugby is far more discussed.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:09 am 
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sorCrer wrote:
Rugby is far more discussed.


Eish. Then the REAL hostility begins!


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:18 am 
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You just need to do what you can for yourself. Forget trying to save the country as it is in the hands of people who only care about themselves and voted in by people who only want a free piece of land. I don't get the racist thing. I don't believe that any parent with young children can feel racist . Most of the children are integrated and don't experience racism unless it's from their parents. My kid had his 5th birthday party on the weekend and the majority of his friends that attended are of colour. As were the parents. We kuier'ed lekker. The wine and beer was flowing and not a single political or racist incident happened or was discussed. It's only the ANC and EFF pushing racist agendas for votes


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:18 am 
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assfly wrote:
Rinkals wrote:
I've been having a few thoughts about Assfly's comments that the attitude of whites to the black majority of this country is unimportant and makes very little impact.


I said no such thing :lol:

My argument is that the debate around so-called white privilege is a debate that will achieve little without some sort of action behind it. Even is white do publicly recognise the privileged position that they have in society, what does that actually do to change the situation of the less-privileged? That questions remains unanswered.

I'm basing my assertion on this:
assfly wrote:
My question is a practical one (not just to you, to anyone). What does this "measure of understanding" achieve? Does it make "us" or "them" feel better? It sure as hell doesn't put food on the table, or build a school.


I does seem to me that that says that the attitude of whites is unimportant because it doesn't put bread on the table or build a school, but perhaps I am misinterpreting.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:26 am 
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You're confusing the debate on white privilege with the attitude of whites. White privilege is a debate that involves both blacks and whites. You say that it's important that whites recognize white privilege to display a measure of understanding, my question is what does this achieve?


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:26 am 
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assfly wrote:
My opinion on race relations comes from living in Kenya at the moment, after spending a year in Cape Town last year. The hostility between races in South Africa is another level, on both sides of the fence.

I have been to Nigeria a few times and will go there again on sunday week. I really enjoy going there, while most of my colleagues dont want to.

They dont have apartheid in Nigeria and they dont care about skin colour , they just want to survive in life. Nigeria keep me humble and I use their labour and way of life situations as an example how really fortunate we are in SA.

Once you experience a big city like Lagos where the office workers lunch is a carrot out of their garden and their roads are nearly non excisting it give you real perspective.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:51 pm 
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I personally observe race relations here being worse than before and unlikely to improve. Look in the sa media and there is a obsessive focus on race, and in so much of m our politics. This is being consciously done by many groups (media, politicians, advertisers etc) for various short term benefits. I am amazed at what is being tolerated - this will have terrible consequences for all South Africans. I find it infuriating to witness and I can’t continue to be a member of such a broken society that does not want to be fixed.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:53 pm 
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BokStorm wrote:
I personally observe race relations here being worse than before and unlikely to improve. Look in the sa media and there is a obsessive focus on race, and in so much of m our politics. This is being consciously done by many groups (media, politicians, advertisers etc) for various short term benefits. I am amazed at what is being tolerated - this will have terrible consequences for all South Africans. I find it infuriating to witness and I can’t continue to be a member of such a broken society that does not want to be fixed.


well said....


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:08 pm 
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Quote:
EFF leader Julius Malema has warned of an "unled revolution" in South Africa, as black people "are worse off in democracy than they were under apartheid"

"If things are going the way they are, there will be a revolution in this country. There will be an unled revolution, and an unled revolution is the highest form of anarchy," Malema told the Turkish Radio and Television Broadcasting Corporation.

The interview has made waves because of Malema's quotes that white people would not be slaughtered under his leadership, but that he could not "guarantee the future".



https://m.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/malema-says-white-people-are-safe-under-his-leadership-warns-of-an-unled-revolution-20180613

:?


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:57 pm 
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Juliaaas adding some spice ....


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:58 am 
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Wilson's Toffee wrote:
Juliaaas adding some spice ....



Welcome back oomWT!!!

Onse komandeer-in-tjief. ;)

Al ons vêr-regse, rassistiese, chauvinistiese nasionaliste het oom rerig gemis.




(Met vêr-regs, rassisties, chauvinisties en nasionaliste bedoel ek almal regs van ANC-gatkruipers)


Sieg heil!


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