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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:40 pm 
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Another failed motion of no confidence, especially if it is clear that the ANC MPs voted as they were told by their overlords, will suit the opposition parties much better than a successful one.

Won't be the best for the country in the short term, but in the medium to long run, leading up to the 2019 elections, an ANC, divided with lots of infighting an mistrust, with JZ in charge will be our best bet.

Of course, a couple of old ANC stalwarts like Trevor Manual and others joining one of the opposition parties will be great (be it DA, Cope or UDM. Just not EFF please). And first prize will be if the SACP and Cosatu decide to stand in the elections in 2019 as individual parties.


Gordhan has become the face of the "rebellion" against JZ. Everybody now loves him. They seem to forget that he was Minister of Finance during the construction of Nkandla. He's probably one of the good or at least better guys within the ruling party, but he's also not squeaky clean.

Then again, very few, if any, ANC politicians are.

Or to be more precise, very few, if any, politicians are.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:10 pm 
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So who's going for a walk tomorrow?


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:05 pm 
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beachboy wrote:
The company I work for has also given staff permission to take off work to march. Some are catching trains to Cape Town centre. Others are going to join the chain planned for the Southern Suburbs (which I will probably do). The real challenge with this march is that if it is mainly white, Zuma and his supporters will just shout it down as a DA march. It is so important that the majority of the marchers are Black, it is the only way a proper message can be sent. I am not sure it will happen.

I agree.

If it is undersupported or mainly white, it will backfire.

I must say, it's spectacularly badly organised.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:29 pm 
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Rinkals wrote:
beachboy wrote:
The company I work for has also given staff permission to take off work to march. Some are catching trains to Cape Town centre. Others are going to join the chain planned for the Southern Suburbs (which I will probably do). The real challenge with this march is that if it is mainly white, Zuma and his supporters will just shout it down as a DA march. It is so important that the majority of the marchers are Black, it is the only way a proper message can be sent. I am not sure it will happen.

I agree.

If it is undersupported or mainly white, it will backfire.

I must say, it's spectacularly badly organised.

Don't know why you should say that. It's well documented on fb. Permissions have been submitted and approved. Fortunately most South Africans operate within the law.
There were some refusals from the police and urgent court applications for approval. Everyone I know has an idea where to go . And when.

Maybe it's a Vaalies thing


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:35 pm 
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I hope people are going.

Apathy never changed a thing.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:14 pm 
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Sards wrote:
Rinkals wrote:
beachboy wrote:
The company I work for has also given staff permission to take off work to march. Some are catching trains to Cape Town centre. Others are going to join the chain planned for the Southern Suburbs (which I will probably do). The real challenge with this march is that if it is mainly white, Zuma and his supporters will just shout it down as a DA march. It is so important that the majority of the marchers are Black, it is the only way a proper message can be sent. I am not sure it will happen.

I agree.

If it is undersupported or mainly white, it will backfire.

I must say, it's spectacularly badly organised.

Don't know why you should say that. It's well documented on fb. Permissions have been submitted and approved. Fortunately most South Africans operate within the law.
There were some refusals from the police and urgent court applications for approval. Everyone I know has an idea where to go . And when.

Maybe it's a Vaalies thing

Maybe.

First I heard it was a march to Luthuli House, then it's to some square which I don't know, from some place in Fordsburg (I think). Then we are told permission hasn't been given and that it's off. Then it's on. Then there might be violence from ANCYL and MK.

Honestly, I'm fu cked if I know what's going on.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:19 am 
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Just got this photo from a mate. :lol:

Image


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:50 am 
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Human chain, 22+ kms across Cape Town

Image

Image

Image

http://www.you.co.za/news/thousands-join-hands-to-create-human-chain-that-stretches-across-cape-town-see-the-photos/


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 10:51 am 
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:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:15 pm 
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echo wrote:
troglodiet wrote:
echo wrote:

The quake's epicentre was in Botswana-which may seem like the ocean but it is not- central/west of the CKGR. Bloody big quake for somewhere as geologically stable a base as the kalahari craton.





My apologies.

First reported to have had its epicenter somewhere of the coast North of Madagascar.

Either updated or there might have been 2 maybe? Either way, I didn't see the reports (updates?) of the epicenter being in Botswana.

Weird that a quake in Botswana was felt in Durban and Cape Town though.


Was an astonishing 6.5 (!!!!)- but with little impact other than guttural rumbling- the benefit of the Kalahari craton being covered by a sand overburden several hundred metres thick in some places. another quake of 5 just after midnight.

or maybe it was just the collective sigh in rand-linked treasuries (like Namibia) when SA debt was downgraded.


Quote:
The Botswana earthquake of April 3, 2017, occurred in a region of southern Africa that has historically had a low level of earthquake activity. Moment-tensor calculations imply that the earthquake occurred as the result of slip on a northwest-trending fault centered in the lower-crust. This focal-mechanism is similar to those of earthquakes in the East African rift system, a diffuse zone of crustal extension that passes through eastern Africa from Djibouti and Eritrea on the north to Malawi and Mozambique on the south and that constitutes the boundary between the Africa plate on the west and the Somalia plate on the east. The mechanism therefore suggests that the April 3, 2017, earthquake occurred as the result of broad-scale regional tectonic stresses that are similar to those responsible for producing the East-African rift system.
https://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes ... #executive


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 3:30 pm 
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These protests against Zuma...

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-39526313

Anything in this?


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 3:38 pm 
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Flockwitt wrote:
These protests against Zuma...

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-39526313

Anything in this?


How do you mean?

Yes, these are early discontent protests. It takes a lot to get Whitey on the streets in ZA. There will be a no confidence debate on the 18th, protests will step up. If they try push the nuclear deal through I expect a tax revolt.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 3:46 pm 
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sorCrer wrote:
Flockwitt wrote:
These protests against Zuma...

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-39526313

Anything in this?


How do you mean?

Yes, these are early discontent protests. It takes a lot to get Whitey on the streets in ZA. There will be a no confidence debate on the 18th, protests will step up. If they try push the nuclear deal through I expect a tax revolt.

I was wondering if these were the first stones heading down the mountainside which were about to turn into an avalanche.

Any chance Zuma will get the heave ho do you think?


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 3:48 pm 
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Flockwitt wrote:
sorCrer wrote:
Flockwitt wrote:
These protests against Zuma...

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-39526313

Anything in this?


How do you mean?

Yes, these are early discontent protests. It takes a lot to get Whitey on the streets in ZA. There will be a no confidence debate on the 18th, protests will step up. If they try push the nuclear deal through I expect a tax revolt.

I was wondering if these were the first stones heading down the mountainside which were about to turn into an avalanche.

Any chance Zuma will get the heave ho do you think?


Very little imo. Even if he does....the ANC is still a major part of the issue.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 3:48 pm 
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Flockwitt wrote:
sorCrer wrote:
Flockwitt wrote:
These protests against Zuma...

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-39526313

Anything in this?


How do you mean?

Yes, these are early discontent protests. It takes a lot to get Whitey on the streets in ZA. There will be a no confidence debate on the 18th, protests will step up. If they try push the nuclear deal through I expect a tax revolt.

I was wondering if these were the first stones heading down the mountainside which were about to turn into an avalanche.

Any chance Zuma will get the heave ho do you think?


This will gather momentum. Zuma is a Zulu which is a deeply patriarchal culture. Getting rid of him is very difficult but the ANC need to do something for their own survival. They have an elective conference in December, I suspect he will be gone then.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 3:54 pm 
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Thanks, yes, let's see. Been following the thread previously after I'd visited SA last year just before the municipal elections and had been wondering where it might all be headed for the ANC and Zuma.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 4:06 pm 
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Flockwitt wrote:
sorCrer wrote:
Flockwitt wrote:
These protests against Zuma...

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-39526313

Anything in this?


How do you mean?

Yes, these are early discontent protests. It takes a lot to get Whitey on the streets in ZA. There will be a no confidence debate on the 18th, protests will step up. If they try push the nuclear deal through I expect a tax revolt.

I was wondering if these were the first stones heading down the mountainside which were about to turn into an avalanche.

Any chance Zuma will get the heave ho do you think?

I don't think Zuma will interrupt his quaffing of champagne in the leafy suburb of Saxonwold for an instant.

I said earlier that these marches were astonishingly poorly organised, with nobody knowing where to go, where to march to or where to join a march.

The Daily Maverick: https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2017-04-07-zumamustfall-thousands-march-calling-for-zuma-to-step-down/#.WOeopq0vDBk

Quote:
Deputy Minister Kebby Maphatsoe said he was not convinced by all this protesting: “We are aware white companies have given their people a paid day off today to go and join the DA. It's a rent-a-crowd, and it's people who are making our people believe lies. We are not going to be deterred.”


Quote:
At several points, protests in central Cape Town seemed like a march in need of a leader. From mid-morning, protesters began to gather on the road in front of Parliament, while others were amassing at Cape Town's traditional march starting point of Keizersgracht. This split initially gave proceedings a slight sense of aimlessness.


Quote:
But Cosatu asked its members not to participate – “We will never march with the agents on monopoly capital to remove a democratically elected government” – while #FeesMustFall Western Cape issued a statement rejecting the anti-Zuma marches as ones “that will see lazy, incompetent and time-wasting white citizens” protest against a Cabinet reshuffle.


I can hear Zuma's gigglling from here.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 5:13 pm 
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Has Nips got back from protesting yet?


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:40 pm 
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Nipper will only be in later.

He has been seen joining the MK Veterans, at their stall near the Railway Club.

BN loves a winner.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:51 pm 
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Pointless.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:03 pm 
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It's a huge success. Get onto social media and listen to the people


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:06 pm 
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Sards wrote:
It's a huge success. Get onto social media and listen to the people


It will be a success when Zuma is sacked. Only then...Oh and then we only have the ANC to worry about.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:08 pm 
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saffer13 wrote:
Sards wrote:
It's a huge success. Get onto social media and listen to the people


It will be a success when Zuma is sacked. Only then...Oh and then we only have the ANC to worry about.


It's a process. Not a revolt. Zuma will step down in December. The ANC cannot lose anymore face on him but they are losing voters.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:17 pm 
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Sards wrote:
It's a huge success. Get onto social media and listen to the people

Actually, while I don't feel it will have any political impact, there was a reasonably valuable cathartic effect in the exercise. People of all colours and backgrounds marching in a common cause with great humour and comradery giving each other hope that we can survive this.
"SIZE": show
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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 7:54 pm 
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Sards wrote:
saffer13 wrote:
Sards wrote:
It's a huge success. Get onto social media and listen to the people


It will be a success when Zuma is sacked. Only then...Oh and then we only have the ANC to worry about.


It's a process. Not a revolt. Zuma will step down in December. The ANC cannot lose anymore face on him but they are losing voters.


And with him gone you're confident the ANC will turn things around?


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:14 pm 
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saffer13 wrote:
Sards wrote:
saffer13 wrote:
Sards wrote:
It's a huge success. Get onto social media and listen to the people


It will be a success when Zuma is sacked. Only then...Oh and then we only have the ANC to worry about.


It's a process. Not a revolt. Zuma will step down in December. The ANC cannot lose anymore face on him but they are losing voters.


And with him gone you're confident the ANC will turn things around?


There will be a multi party coalition government . That's all we want. With that the parties will be working for the people and not themselves. Unless Zuma becomes a dictator. I follow one of the past leaders of the ANC. There are whispers. People are urged to be patient as there is a plan in place. Zuma's last bold move could well have delayed matters but I suspect something is up


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:06 pm 
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saffer13 wrote:
Sards wrote:
saffer13 wrote:
Sards wrote:
It's a huge success. Get onto social media and listen to the people


It will be a success when Zuma is sacked. Only then...Oh and then we only have the ANC to worry about.


It's a process. Not a revolt. Zuma will step down in December. The ANC cannot lose anymore face on him but they are losing voters.


And with him gone you're confident the ANC will turn things around?

I don't think you quite understand what we are protesting about.

The problem isn't necessarily Zuma.

The problem is that his friends run our country. The problem is that his friends offer the portfolio of the Minister of Finance to anyone who they consider will give them the keys to the treasury. And the current Finance Minister, Gigaba clearly doesn't understand economics. In fact, watching him recite his speech on his appointment last week and noting the similarities with Zuma's own speech a few days before, one cannot but help having the suspicion that the writer of both speeches was a member of a prominent Uttar Pradeshian family.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:21 am 
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Apparently entities who knew that Gordhan was going to be recalled from his London Roadshow made upwards of 42million (Rand) on the JSE last week.

http://www.fin24.com/Markets/Equities/jse-probing-securities-surge-linked-to-gordhans-uk-recall-20170410

Suspicion points to the Guptas and familia Zuma.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:10 am 
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I caught a train and took part in the Cape Town march. I went with a group of about 20 people which was 50/50 White/Black. My biggest concerns with the March was that it would be majority White/DA inspired/Anti ANC. To me it was important that it was seen as anti Zuma by the people of the country. There was one mention of the DA in the speeches but it was quickly stopped. The gees was amazing. Some really funny moments. When asked by an ANC supporter where Zuma must go someone shouted out Zimbabwe much to the mirth of both all which broke the tension and everyone had a laugh.

One or two of my Black friends wanted to attend but were under a lot of pressure from their community and family not to take part, which was a shame. I think a lot more would have liked to have marched but there was a lot of subtle intimidation.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:44 pm 
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:thumbup:

There was a lot of uncertainty over the marches, where to go, whether they were authorised and whether there would be violent counter marches.

The success of Friday's action will (hopefully) mean that those who didn't go will feel encouraged to go the next time.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:29 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:03 pm 
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Our new Sport minister gets his Springbok jersey.
S24
Quote:

WATCH: New sports minister earns Bok stripes

Image


Thembelani Nxesi (Gallo)


Cape Town - Say what you want about Fikile Mbalula, nobody could ever question his love of sport.

Ever since he was named sports minister in 2010, Mbalula has been a passionate fan of all of South Africa's major sporting teams - cricket, rugby and soccer.

He was always vocal in his support for the Springboks, and will be remembered for his "moer hulle dood" speech ahead of the 2015 Rugby World Cup.

Now, there is a new sheriff in town.

Thembelani Nxesi has been unveiled as the country's new sports minister, making the move from minister of public works as part of President Jacob Zuma's controversial cabinet reshuffle.

The sporting community does not know too much about Nxesi, and they are waiting to see what his stance will be on South Africa's 2023 World Cup bid as well as the identity of the two South African Super Rugby teams to be chopped for the 2018 tournament.

While he was still in charge, Mbalula had banned the associations in charge of rugby, cricket, netball and athletics from bidding for, or hosting, major sporting events because of a 2015/16 Eminent Persons Group (EPG) report that indicated that those sports had failed in their endeavours to facilitate transformation.

Mbalula said that the result of the 2016/17 report would determine whether or not those bans were lifted, but that now falls under Nxesi.

There is a lot to learn about the new minister, but he seemed in good spirits at Monday's launch of the new SuperSport Rugby Challenge in Johannesburg.

Nxesi said the aim was to turn South Africa into world leaders in rugby once again, and he was given a Bok jersey by SA Rugby president Mark Alexander in a moment that is hopefully the beginning of a healthy relationship.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:38 pm 
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Is he laughing or crying?


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 5:44 am 
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Stephen Grotes on Zuma being booed at a May Day rally in the Freestate:

https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2017-05-01-analysis-may-day-may-day/#.WQgL60AvDBk

I'm not sure that I agree with all of it, but the conclusion is probably correct: Zuma is in a fight for his survival.

He makes a telling point, too, in that the Freestate is Ace Magashula's fiefdom so it would have been unlikely not to have a high percentage of pro-Zuma plants in the crowd. Zuma was asked not to attend the rally and I felt that he was a little unwise to risk being shown the audiences displeasure, but he must've been assured that there would be pro-Zuma supporters in sufficient numbers to make the dissenters seem irrelevant. Which would have played to his narrative that it was only the whites and a minority of "clever blacks" who were against him, and that's probably why he went.

He can't really use the race card here, though.

I don't believe that Zuma will go quietly; he is very likely to serve jail time if he has to defend the corruption charges he has currently hanging over his head.

It's going to be an interesting few months.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 7:38 am 
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Baleka Mbete and Jessie Duarte also ran into jeers and heckling.
Duarte says it is
"electioneering", Baleka says tehy "expected" it.

The venues are interesting, though - Mpumalanga and KZN. Zuma strongholds.
COSATU is out to get him, will see if they succeed.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 7:54 am 
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Well, if they expected it, then they shouldn't have attended. Or attended one in Zululand where they could be assured of better support.

I think they bought into assurances from Magashula that there would be enough Zuma supporters bussed in to allow Zuma to claim that the anti-Zuma campaign is limited to White Minority Capital.

Zuma was warned not to attend, but the ANC were ultimately the ones to make the decision on who should represent them and Zuma obviously felt that he could count on there being enough supporters to make a statement.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 6:19 am 
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Lots Happening.

The ANC NEC have tabled a motion of no-confidence in Zuma.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/president-faces-fresh-attack-at-nec-meeting-20170527

Quote:
Zuma’s backers spent the whole of Thursday on a farm near St George in Irene where they lobbied NEC members to rally behind him in the event that a no confidence motion arose.

The NEC was also expected to take a decision on the furore around Eskom chief executive officer Brian Molefe and Public Enterprises Minister Lynne Brown.

ANC veterans had called for the NEC meeting to take a decision to remove people from government who are implicated in the state capture.

Zuma and Finance Minister Malusi Gigaba are central figures in the state capture report released by academics and civil society organisations.


Evidence emerges (as if the smoking gun needed further evidence) of the Gupas links to Zuma, Zuma's sons and other Government Ministers.
http://www.timeslive.co.za/sundaytimes/stnews/2017/05/27/Exposed-Proof-the-Guptas-run-South-Africa

Quote:
The e-mails reveal that the Guptas:
• Were sent Mosebenzi Zwane’s CV a month before he was appointed minister of mineral resources;
• Intervened to have the powers of the then communications minister, Faith Muthambi, strengthened and were forwarded a presidential proclamation detailing her powers by Muthambi before it was signed by Zuma;
• Received confidential information on cabinet meetings from Muthambi;
• Paid for Des van Rooyen’s trip to Dubai after his appointment to the cabinet in December 2015;
• Arranged for Denel director Dan Mantsha to be chauffeured around Dubai;
• Paid for a deluxe suite for Matshela Koko — subsequently appointed acting CEO of Eskom — at the luxurious Oberoi Hotel in Dubai;
• Were asked by an SAA board member to get him onto the board of Transnet;
• Had staff coach Zwane on how to handle media conferences, including questions about his relationship with the Guptas. He flew on a Gupta jet to Dubai and they picked up the tab for his accommodation; and
• Had their company’s CEO, Nazeem Howa, prepare notes for ANC Youth League president Collen Maine advising him on how to respond to media questions.

Read all about this scandal and other sensational detail in Sunday Times tomorrow.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:51 am 
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The tranch of leaked emails which, while making it difficult for Zuma's supporters to claim plausable deniability, don't really tell us anything we didn't already know, has.made Zuma's position a lot weaker.

Although he appears to have been very careful not to have actually put his name to anything, the trail consistently leads back to him,either though his son or through various government ministers.

Melanie Verwoerd suggests that some of Zuma's supporters have accepted bribes from the Russian mob, something I mentioned a few pages back.

Whatever, is happening, I suspect that Zuma and his supporters will launch their counter offensive soon.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:18 am 
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Posts: 24945
We will be able to take our pick from

a) White Monopoly Capital fake news
b) Foreign government takeover of the RSA
c) Lies, lies and damned lies, all due to bladdy agents
d) Justifying of land grabs (fok the Constitution )
e) Racism, racism and racism
f) Traitorous sellers out to White Monopoly Capital/Foreign Governments
g) Strange White values that demands responsible government - not the African way !!
h) All of the above and then some more

It is tiresome - crooks never roll over and die when they are caught, they carry on ad nauseam until everyone else is mentally exhausted. Way to win, for them.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:23 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:05 am
Posts: 13796
Wilson's Toffee wrote:
We will be able to take our pick from

a) White Monopoly Capital fake news
b) Foreign government takeover of the RSA
c) Lies, lies and damned lies, all due to bladdy agents
d) Justifying of land grabs (fok the Constitution )
e) Racism, racism and racism
f) Traitorous sellers out to White Monopoly Capital/Foreign Governments
g) Strange White values that demands responsible government - not the African way !!
h) All of the above and then some more

It is tiresome - crooks never roll over and die when they are caught, they carry on ad nauseam until everyone else is mentally exhausted. Way to win, for them.

Jesus, what a stupid post.

Can I suggest that you emigrate?

Here. read this on why South Africa isn't Zimbabwe.


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