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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:24 am 
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Posts: 9352
Location: The Fountain of Running Rugby
Rinkals wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote:
We will be able to take our pick from

a) White Monopoly Capital fake news
b) Foreign government takeover of the RSA
c) Lies, lies and damned lies, all due to bladdy agents
d) Justifying of land grabs (fok the Constitution )
e) Racism, racism and racism
f) Traitorous sellers out to White Monopoly Capital/Foreign Governments
g) Strange White values that demands responsible government - not the African way !!
h) All of the above and then some more

It is tiresome - crooks never roll over and die when they are caught, they carry on ad nauseam until everyone else is mentally exhausted. Way to win, for them.

Jesus, what a stupid post.

Can I suggest that you emigrate?

Here. read this on why South Africa isn't Zimbabwe.

The irony of it all is that he is a bubblefart fluffer.

:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:32 am 
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Location: Mostly London........Mostly
Wilson's Toffee wrote:
We will be able to take our pick from

a) White Monopoly Capital fake news
b) Foreign government takeover of the RSA
c) Lies, lies and damned lies, all due to bladdy agents
d) Justifying of land grabs (fok the Constitution )
e) Racism, racism and racism
f) Traitorous sellers out to White Monopoly Capital/Foreign Governments
g) Strange White values that demands responsible government - not the African way !!
h) All of the above and then some more

It is tiresome - crooks never roll over and die when they are caught, they carry on ad nauseam until everyone else is mentally exhausted. Way to win, for them.


As an outsider, can someone explain what the 'tipping point' would be? What combination of factors would finally bring an end to this clown? What are we looking at, popular unrest, party support exhausted, cronies jumping ship, legal prosecution??? At what stage will even Zuma realises the game is up and flees to some gulf state or 'retires' to his homestead having secured immunity as a condition of leaving office.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:51 am 
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danny_fitz wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote:
We will be able to take our pick from

a) White Monopoly Capital fake news
b) Foreign government takeover of the RSA
c) Lies, lies and damned lies, all due to bladdy agents
d) Justifying of land grabs (fok the Constitution )
e) Racism, racism and racism
f) Traitorous sellers out to White Monopoly Capital/Foreign Governments
g) Strange White values that demands responsible government - not the African way !!
h) All of the above and then some more

It is tiresome - crooks never roll over and die when they are caught, they carry on ad nauseam until everyone else is mentally exhausted. Way to win, for them.


As an outsider, can someone explain what the 'tipping point' would be? What combination of factors would finally bring an end to this clown? What are we looking at, popular unrest, party support exhausted, cronies jumping ship, legal prosecution??? At what stage will even Zuma realises the game is up and flees to some gulf state or 'retires' to his homestead having secured immunity as a condition of leaving office.

Danny, the NEC (ANC's National Executive Council) has discussed Zuma's removal twice, once in November and once a few week ago. The second one came a lot closer to asking him to step down (to the point that Zuma had to threaten them to get them back in line), but he did survive.

The Opposition is tabling a no confidence debate but the ANC is adamant that the voting should not be secret presumably because they want to identify any ANC MPs who vote against Zuma. The ANC has party lists who go to parliament and Members are selected by the executive rather than elected, so anyone not backing Zuma will be without a job.

The Constitutional Court will rule on this, after which they will have the debate, which could potentially topple Zuma.

However, even divided as the ANC are, I'm not sure that they would vote with the opposition because of idealogical differences.

Zuma will step down as President of the ANC at the end of the year, and is hoping to install his proxy, Dlamini-Zuma (his ex-wife who still lives with him), as President, both of the Party and the Country.

As the details of the Gupta email leaks become public, so his position has weakened and it is no longer clear whether he will be able to carry out his plans. Although he has the backing of the Zulus (who are the largest tribe), he has haemorrhaged support, even being booed by the Trade Unionists on Labour Day.

(Sorry if this isn't terribly clear as I'm dashing this off prior to going to a meeting and it's a bit rushed)


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:57 am 
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danny_fitz wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote:
We will be able to take our pick from

a) White Monopoly Capital fake news
b) Foreign government takeover of the RSA
c) Lies, lies and damned lies, all due to bladdy agents
d) Justifying of land grabs (fok the Constitution )
e) Racism, racism and racism
f) Traitorous sellers out to White Monopoly Capital/Foreign Governments
g) Strange White values that demands responsible government - not the African way !!
h) All of the above and then some more

It is tiresome - crooks never roll over and die when they are caught, they carry on ad nauseam until everyone else is mentally exhausted. Way to win, for them.


As an outsider, can someone explain what the 'tipping point' would be? What combination of factors would finally bring an end to this clown? What are we looking at, popular unrest, party support exhausted, cronies jumping ship, legal prosecution??? At what stage will even Zuma realises the game is up and flees to some gulf state or 'retires' to his homestead having secured immunity as a condition of leaving office.



Interesting you should mention that. Old Jay-Zee already has a home in the Dubai, bought and paid for the people who uses him to milk our country dry, the Gupta brothers. 3 Indian guys who came here with nothing and have used state resources to build a dynasty. They're actually blatant these days, not even trying to hide it anymore.

These guys aren't stealing millions...they're stealing BILLIONS. In Dollar value.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:01 am 
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Rinkals wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote:
We will be able to take our pick from

a) White Monopoly Capital fake news
b) Foreign government takeover of the RSA
c) Lies, lies and damned lies, all due to bladdy agents
d) Justifying of land grabs (fok the Constitution )
e) Racism, racism and racism
f) Traitorous sellers out to White Monopoly Capital/Foreign Governments
g) Strange White values that demands responsible government - not the African way !!
h) All of the above and then some more

It is tiresome - crooks never roll over and die when they are caught, they carry on ad nauseam until everyone else is mentally exhausted. Way to win, for them.

Jesus, what a stupid post.

Can I suggest that you emigrate?

Here. read this on why South Africa isn't Zimbabwe.



Define why it's stupid. All those points stated by WT has been used by the ANC, and will be used by them until they (eventually? hopefully?) lose power. Go and read your favourite Verwoerd (it must irk you to say you like a Verwoerd :lol: ) latest post on News24, where she effectively says exactly the same as WT - what reasons the ANC will use to try and hide their corruption.


And speaking about Zimbabwe, and favourite lefty journalists, why don't you read your favourite Max du Preez's article on how the current regime isn't all that different from Zimbabwe. There, HE, the God of the Left, actually said that.
http://www.news24.com/Columnists/MaxduPreez/sa-is-making-a-historic-mistake-20170425


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:02 am 
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troglodiet wrote:
Rinkals wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote:
We will be able to take our pick from

a) White Monopoly Capital fake news
b) Foreign government takeover of the RSA
c) Lies, lies and damned lies, all due to bladdy agents
d) Justifying of land grabs (fok the Constitution )
e) Racism, racism and racism
f) Traitorous sellers out to White Monopoly Capital/Foreign Governments
g) Strange White values that demands responsible government - not the African way !!
h) All of the above and then some more

It is tiresome - crooks never roll over and die when they are caught, they carry on ad nauseam until everyone else is mentally exhausted. Way to win, for them.

Jesus, what a stupid post.

Can I suggest that you emigrate?

Here. read this on why South Africa isn't Zimbabwe.



Define why it's stupid. All those points stated by WT has been used by the ANC, and will be used by them until they (eventually? hopefully?) lose power. Go and read your favourite Verwoerd (it must irk you to say you like a Verwoerd :lol: ) latest post on News24, where she effectively says exactly the same as WT - what reasons the ANC will use to try and hide their corruption.


And speaking about Zimbabwe, and favourite lefty journalists, why don't you read your favourite Max du Preez's article on how the current regime isn't all that different from Zimbabwe. There, HE, the God of the Left, actually said that.
http://www.news24.com/Columnists/MaxduPreez/sa-is-making-a-historic-mistake-20170425

If you don't agree with rinkhals, you are stupid.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:10 am 
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Location: Kingsburgh, KZN
handyman wrote:
troglodiet wrote:
Rinkals wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote:
We will be able to take our pick from

a) White Monopoly Capital fake news
b) Foreign government takeover of the RSA
c) Lies, lies and damned lies, all due to bladdy agents
d) Justifying of land grabs (fok the Constitution )
e) Racism, racism and racism
f) Traitorous sellers out to White Monopoly Capital/Foreign Governments
g) Strange White values that demands responsible government - not the African way !!
h) All of the above and then some more

It is tiresome - crooks never roll over and die when they are caught, they carry on ad nauseam until everyone else is mentally exhausted. Way to win, for them.

Jesus, what a stupid post.

Can I suggest that you emigrate?

Here. read this on why South Africa isn't Zimbabwe.



Define why it's stupid. All those points stated by WT has been used by the ANC, and will be used by them until they (eventually? hopefully?) lose power. Go and read your favourite Verwoerd (it must irk you to say you like a Verwoerd :lol: ) latest post on News24, where she effectively says exactly the same as WT - what reasons the ANC will use to try and hide their corruption.


And speaking about Zimbabwe, and favourite lefty journalists, why don't you read your favourite Max du Preez's article on how the current regime isn't all that different from Zimbabwe. There, HE, the God of the Left, actually said that.
http://www.news24.com/Columnists/MaxduPreez/sa-is-making-a-historic-mistake-20170425

If you don't agree with rinkhals, you are racist.



Fixed for accuracy.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:25 am 
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Posts: 8465
troglodiet wrote:
handyman wrote:
troglodiet wrote:
Rinkals wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote:
We will be able to take our pick from

a) White Monopoly Capital fake news
b) Foreign government takeover of the RSA
c) Lies, lies and damned lies, all due to bladdy agents
d) Justifying of land grabs (fok the Constitution )
e) Racism, racism and racism
f) Traitorous sellers out to White Monopoly Capital/Foreign Governments
g) Strange White values that demands responsible government - not the African way !!
h) All of the above and then some more

It is tiresome - crooks never roll over and die when they are caught, they carry on ad nauseam until everyone else is mentally exhausted. Way to win, for them.

Jesus, what a stupid post.

Can I suggest that you emigrate?

Here. read this on why South Africa isn't Zimbabwe.



Define why it's stupid. All those points stated by WT has been used by the ANC, and will be used by them until they (eventually? hopefully?) lose power. Go and read your favourite Verwoerd (it must irk you to say you like a Verwoerd :lol: ) latest post on News24, where she effectively says exactly the same as WT - what reasons the ANC will use to try and hide their corruption.


And speaking about Zimbabwe, and favourite lefty journalists, why don't you read your favourite Max du Preez's article on how the current regime isn't all that different from Zimbabwe. There, HE, the God of the Left, actually said that.
http://www.news24.com/Columnists/MaxduPreez/sa-is-making-a-historic-mistake-20170425

If you don't agree with rinkhals, you are racist and stupid.



Fixed for accuracy.

Fixed again.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:59 am 
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Rinkals wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote:
We will be able to take our pick from

a) White Monopoly Capital fake news
b) Foreign government takeover of the RSA
c) Lies, lies and damned lies, all due to bladdy agents
d) Justifying of land grabs (fok the Constitution )
e) Racism, racism and racism
f) Traitorous sellers out to White Monopoly Capital/Foreign Governments
g) Strange White values that demands responsible government - not the African way !!
h) All of the above and then some more

It is tiresome - crooks never roll over and die when they are caught, they carry on ad nauseam until everyone else is mentally exhausted. Way to win, for them.

Jesus, what a stupid post.

Can I suggest that you emigrate?

Here. read this on why South Africa isn't Zimbabwe.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

EDIT :

What you do not seem to realise, Rinkals, is that the heyday of the leftist "liberal" in South Africa has come and gone. Even those as far "left" as Max du Preez and Grootes. And people like Melanie Verwoerd. They have been found out, labelled as 'racist" and "colonials" and put in a box where they will be kept and made irrelevant, permanently.

Look at Helen Zille - once the pinnacle of peaceful multi racial resistance in South Africa, the poster girl of non racialism - now she is basically a pariah within her own party, a leper, outcast and discredited. A rich woman, a Black Sash tannie, who could not adapt to Africa and the African way ...

Used and cast aside. Much like on of Ramaphosa's flavoured condoms..


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:07 pm 
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handyman wrote:
troglodiet wrote:
Rinkals wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote:
We will be able to take our pick from

a) White Monopoly Capital fake news
b) Foreign government takeover of the RSA
c) Lies, lies and damned lies, all due to bladdy agents
d) Justifying of land grabs (fok the Constitution )
e) Racism, racism and racism
f) Traitorous sellers out to White Monopoly Capital/Foreign Governments
g) Strange White values that demands responsible government - not the African way !!
h) All of the above and then some more

It is tiresome - crooks never roll over and die when they are caught, they carry on ad nauseam until everyone else is mentally exhausted. Way to win, for them.

Jesus, what a stupid post.

Can I suggest that you emigrate?

Here. read this on why South Africa isn't Zimbabwe.



Define why it's stupid. All those points stated by WT has been used by the ANC, and will be used by them until they (eventually? hopefully?) lose power. Go and read your favourite Verwoerd (it must irk you to say you like a Verwoerd :lol: ) latest post on News24, where she effectively says exactly the same as WT - what reasons the ANC will use to try and hide their corruption.


And speaking about Zimbabwe, and favourite lefty journalists, why don't you read your favourite Max du Preez's article on how the current regime isn't all that different from Zimbabwe. There, HE, the God of the Left, actually said that.
http://www.news24.com/Columnists/MaxduPreez/sa-is-making-a-historic-mistake-20170425

If you don't agree with rinkhals, you are stupid.

Oh, nonsense, don't be so delicate.

@Trog,

Seeing that you have called me out on this, do you seriously see any of WC points from a to h which isn't stupid?

I don't know where you get that Max du Preez is a favourite of mine: I agree with some of what he writes, but by no means all of it and I have certainly been critisized on here for saying (repeatedly) that South Africa isn't the same as Zimbabwe. The DailyMaverick article covers it pretty well, without mentioning things like the Constitution (under which Madonsela delivered her report into Nkandla) or the Independent Judiciary (which upheld her findings and forced Zuma to pay back a portion of the cost of the upgrades).


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:17 pm 
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Rinkals wrote:
handyman wrote:
troglodiet wrote:
Rinkals wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote:
We will be able to take our pick from

a) White Monopoly Capital fake news
b) Foreign government takeover of the RSA
c) Lies, lies and damned lies, all due to bladdy agents
d) Justifying of land grabs (fok the Constitution )
e) Racism, racism and racism
f) Traitorous sellers out to White Monopoly Capital/Foreign Governments
g) Strange White values that demands responsible government - not the African way !!
h) All of the above and then some more

It is tiresome - crooks never roll over and die when they are caught, they carry on ad nauseam until everyone else is mentally exhausted. Way to win, for them.

Jesus, what a stupid post.

Can I suggest that you emigrate?

Here. read this on why South Africa isn't Zimbabwe.



Define why it's stupid. All those points stated by WT has been used by the ANC, and will be used by them until they (eventually? hopefully?) lose power. Go and read your favourite Verwoerd (it must irk you to say you like a Verwoerd :lol: ) latest post on News24, where she effectively says exactly the same as WT - what reasons the ANC will use to try and hide their corruption.


And speaking about Zimbabwe, and favourite lefty journalists, why don't you read your favourite Max du Preez's article on how the current regime isn't all that different from Zimbabwe. There, HE, the God of the Left, actually said that.
http://www.news24.com/Columnists/MaxduPreez/sa-is-making-a-historic-mistake-20170425

If you don't agree with rinkhals, you are stupid.

Oh, nonsense, don't be so delicate.

@Trog,

Seeing that you have called me out on this, do you seriously see any of WC points from a to h which isn't stupid?

I don't know where you get that Max du Preez is a favourite of mine: I agree with some of what he writes, but by no means all of it and I have certainly been critisized on here for saying (repeatedly) that South Africa isn't the same as Zimbabwe. The DailyMaverick article covers it pretty well, without mentioning things like the Constitution (under which Madonsela delivered her report into Nkandla) or the Independent Judiciary (which upheld her findings and forced Zuma to pay back a portion of the cost of the upgrades).



None of his points are stupid, as they have all been used by the ANC as excuses. Once again, I ask you to read Melanie Verwoerd's latest article on News24, in which she says basically exactly what WT is saying. She goes even further, by saying she used to play a game whilst in parliament, by checking how long it takes for Mbeki to come up with any of those excuses.

This, whilst she was a MP of the ANC! The very government and party she served.

And you have quoted good ol' Max du Preez on many occasions, and I am 100% sure you mentioned your man-love for him. I'm not in the mood to go and search for it, but it's out there, I remember it well.

But hey, let's pick and choose which article by whichever author suits us best in any given scenario. If Max says something you like, you'll give him a blowie that whole week. If he says something you dislike (i.e. when he's speaking the truth - which doesn't happen often I admit), you suddenly don't know much about him.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:37 am 
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Ah. Okay.

You are crediting him with using satire.

I'm afraid it hadn't occurred to me that he knew what it was, and frankly, I'm still not entirely convinced he wasn't being literal.

Anyway, the point of me posting was to keep political developments here in the spotlight by drawing attention to interesting articles in the media (or what I consider to be interesting articles: WT may not agree). While I appreciate that Melanie Verwoerd has knowledge of the inside workings of the ruling party, I don't always agree with her and the same goes for Max du Preez.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:52 am 
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Rinkals wrote:
Ah. Okay.

I've once again lost an argument by being presented with facts, and will revert to calling those who presented the facts "stupid".



:thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:58 am 
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It was an argument?

Fair enough, declare yourself as the winner with my blessing.

:thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:18 am 
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Rinkals wrote:
It was an argument?





And we have finally discovered the root cause of the problem.

It's not that you continuously lose arguments, but rather that you don't know what an argument is.


Progress. :thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:27 am 
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It's only an argument if I'm winning. ;)


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:33 am 
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lvcnx6-0GhA

As I have repeatedly said, I'm posting articles on the current political scenario in South Africa.

If you want to attack me at every turn, that's entirely up to you.

I posted an article on the Gupta emails. WT then posted some incoherent nonsense which I took for the usual verkrampt WT diatribe and which you obviously took for elevated satire. Fair enough. Your opinion of WT is obviously a lot higher than mine, but that's entirely up to you.

At no point did I engage in any "argument".


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:40 am 
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Bokkom wrote:
It's only an argument if I'm winning. ;)

Nonsense.

I engage on here mostly to get the opinions of other posters and to offer my own.

If you want to attack me on my opinions, please feel free.

I will endeavour to understand your point of view and, if it has merit, then I will accept it.

I would like for my own to be similarly considered, but I don't hold out much hope of that ever happening. Certainly not from my own countrymen, anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:58 am 
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Rinkals wrote:
Bokkom wrote:
It's only an argument if I'm winning. ;)

Nonsense.

I engage on here mostly to get the opinions of other posters and to offer my own.

If you want to attack me on my opinions, please feel free.

I will endeavour to understand your point of view and, if it has merit, then I will accept it.

I would like for my own to be similarly considered, but I don't hold out much hope of that ever happening. Certainly not from my own countrymen, anyway.


:thumbup:


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:01 pm 
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If we were not ducked already the past few months now a new mining charter is introduced to further erode investors confidence. It's taken 2 months to find investors opening their purses again and now we have to start all over again with another 3 possible months before it starts all over again. This will lead to more job losses. Less consumer spending and shrinkage of business to wait out this further blow. We are already reducing all expenses . Considering downsizing. Have staff on short time. Just as we started seeing improvement and were considering stopping short time this comes along. It's almost as though they are on a mission to destroy the economy. Every one of my suppliers and clients are experiencing the same problem. There is no exception. One client downscaled investment in 27 shops this year to the 10 they are committed to under binding lease agreements. That's two thirds of their expansion put on hold. The main investor is an Irishman. Two of the top brand holders have sold out their shares. Whitey Basson has had enough and sold out a portion of his shares.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:35 pm 
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Rinkals wrote:
Bokkom wrote:
It's only an argument if I'm winning. ;)

Nonsense.

I engage on here mostly to get the opinions of other posters and to offer my own.

If you want to attack me on my opinions, please feel free.

I will endeavour to understand your point of view and, if it has merit, then I will accept it.

I would like for my own to be similarly considered, but I don't hold out much hope of that ever happening. Certainly not from my own countrymen, anyway.



You just cannot help but being the outraged victim, eh ?

You just might want to take a step backwards and think again - you are not coming over very good. Hasn't been coming over well for a while, now...


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:39 pm 
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Sards wrote:
If we were not ducked already the past few months now a new mining charter is introduced to further erode investors confidence. It's taken 2 months to find investors opening their purses again and now we have to start all over again with another 3 possible months before it starts all over again. This will lead to more job losses. Less consumer spending and shrinkage of business to wait out this further blow. We are already reducing all expenses . Considering downsizing. Have staff on short time. Just as we started seeing improvement and were considering stopping short time this comes along. It's almost as though they are on a mission to destroy the economy. Every one of my suppliers and clients are experiencing the same problem. There is no exception. One client downscaled investment in 27 shops this year to the 10 they are committed to under binding lease agreements. That's two thirds of their expansion put on hold. The main investor is an Irishman. Two of the top brand holders have sold out their shares. Whitey Basson has had enough and sold out a portion of his shares.



Chamber of Mines and other roll players (Solidarity, e.g) refuses to take part in the new Mining Charter. Says the process was flawed, the most important roll players (owners of mining rights and mines) were not consulted, were actually purposely ignored and sidelined. So now they applied for an interdict to stop implementation of the MC.

The government is out of its mind, with this open rape of private capital. Not the first time they did it to mining rights holders, either.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:46 pm 
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Rinkals wrote:
Bokkom wrote:
It's only an argument if I'm winning. ;)

Nonsense.

I engage on here mostly to get the opinions of other posters and to then call it stupid, racist or verkramp if it differs from my own.



Fixed for accuracy.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:20 pm 
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Rinkals wrote:
If you want to attack me at every turn, that's entirely up to you.

I posted an article on the Gupta emails. WT then posted some incoherent nonsense which I took for the usual verkrampt WT diatribe and which you obviously took for elevated satire. Fair enough. Your opinion of WT is obviously a lot higher than mine, but that's entirely up to you.

At no point did I engage in any "argument".



A couple of points.

I don't attack you at every turn, only when you sprout a lot of nonsense. Which unfortunately, is all of the time.

Secondly, you call WT's post "incoherent nonsense" because you are off the opinion that he is "verkramp". Whether he is or isn't verkramp (and to be honest he does hold much more "verkrampte" views than me) should not be a factor when arguing his post. It really seems like all you are doing is "Oh, that post was made by a right-winger and is therefore wrong". You clearly didn't understand his post, which is 100% true - even "lefty" politicians, journalists and academia agrees - as they are literally every excuse used by the ANC to try to shift the blame for their own failures.

You didn't engage in any argument? So by responding to WT's post and calling it nonsense you are not arguing? Interesting viewpoint.

If there's one very good piece of advice I can offer you, it'll be to hear other people out, listen to what they say, and determine whether it's true or not - no matter who the other person is or what his political persuasions are. I find myself agreeing with Julius Malema, Maimane, Pieter Mulder, Jeremy Cronin and others very often. But I also disagree with them just as often. From that list, it might surprise you that Jeremy Cronin is actually one of the politicians I agree with most, and I have a lot of respect for him as politician, even though I'm everything but a communist or socialist.


Nothing to do with the above, but a question I wanted to ask you for quite some time now.... and I'm solely looking for your personal opinion and feelings on this matter given your acquaintance with the person involved. Not trying to engage in an argument with you (especially now that we know you don't do arguments). Just looking for your feelings on this, honestly. I won't even respond to your answer.

You have stated on here that you shared a flat with Derek Hanekom back in the 80s. You should thus know him rather well and might even consider him a friend.

What is your feelings about the fact that he tabled a motion of no confidence in Zuma at their NEC meeting, but will not have the ethics to vote for a similar motion in parliament (unless maybe they do go for a secret ballot)? Does this skew your opinion of him? Would you call him an honourable person if he voted against such a motion in parliament? Realise this is the one thing you and I, and WT and Nipper and Max du Preez and Melanie Verwoerd and Julius Malema AND Pieter Mulder agree on - that Zuma must go.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:05 pm 
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Wilson's Toffee wrote:
Rinkals wrote:
Bokkom wrote:
It's only an argument if I'm winning. ;)

Nonsense.

I engage on here mostly to get the opinions of other posters and to offer my own.

If you want to attack me on my opinions, please feel free.

I will endeavour to understand your point of view and, if it has merit, then I will accept it.

I would like for my own to be similarly considered, but I don't hold out much hope of that ever happening. Certainly not from my own countrymen, anyway.



You just cannot help but being the outraged victim, eh ?

You just might want to take a step backwards and think again - you are not coming over very good. Hasn't been coming over well for a while, now...

:lol: :lol:

There is no outrage at all.

I am merely referencing articles which may be of interest in the South African political arena.

And if your opinion runs counter to mine, then I think you can rest assured that I'm very happy about that.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:06 pm 
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troglodiet wrote:
Rinkals wrote:
If you want to attack me at every turn, that's entirely up to you.

I posted an article on the Gupta emails. WT then posted some incoherent nonsense which I took for the usual verkrampt WT diatribe and which you obviously took for elevated satire. Fair enough. Your opinion of WT is obviously a lot higher than mine, but that's entirely up to you.

At no point did I engage in any "argument".



A couple of points.

I don't attack you at every turn, only when you sprout a lot of nonsense. Which unfortunately, is all of the time.

Secondly, you call WT's post "incoherent nonsense" because you are off the opinion that he is "verkramp". Whether he is or isn't verkramp (and to be honest he does hold much more "verkrampte" views than me) should not be a factor when arguing his post. It really seems like all you are doing is "Oh, that post was made by a right-winger and is therefore wrong". You clearly didn't understand his post, which is 100% true - even "lefty" politicians, journalists and academia agrees - as they are literally every excuse used by the ANC to try to shift the blame for their own failures.

You didn't engage in any argument? So by responding to WT's post and calling it nonsense you are not arguing? Interesting viewpoint.

If there's one very good piece of advice I can offer you, it'll be to hear other people out, listen to what they say, and determine whether it's true or not - no matter who the other person is or what his political persuasions are. I find myself agreeing with Julius Malema, Maimane, Pieter Mulder, Jeremy Cronin and others very often. But I also disagree with them just as often. From that list, it might surprise you that Jeremy Cronin is actually one of the politicians I agree with most, and I have a lot of respect for him as politician, even though I'm everything but a communist or socialist.


Nothing to do with the above, but a question I wanted to ask you for quite some time now.... and I'm solely looking for your personal opinion and feelings on this matter given your acquaintance with the person involved. Not trying to engage in an argument with you (especially now that we know you don't do arguments). Just looking for your feelings on this, honestly. I won't even respond to your answer.

You have stated on here that you shared a flat with Derek Hanekom back in the 80s. You should thus know him rather well and might even consider him a friend.

What is your feelings about the fact that he tabled a motion of no confidence in Zuma at their NEC meeting, but will not have the ethics to vote for a similar motion in parliament (unless maybe they do go for a secret ballot)? Does this skew your opinion of him? Would you call him an honourable person if he voted against such a motion in parliament? Realise this is the one thing you and I, and WT and Nipper and Max du Preez and Melanie Verwoerd and Julius Malema AND Pieter Mulder agree on - that Zuma must go.

Thanks, but I don't need you to lecture me.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:03 pm 
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Rinkals wrote:
troglodiet wrote:
Rinkals wrote:
If you want to attack me at every turn, that's entirely up to you.

I posted an article on the Gupta emails. WT then posted some incoherent nonsense which I took for the usual verkrampt WT diatribe and which you obviously took for elevated satire. Fair enough. Your opinion of WT is obviously a lot higher than mine, but that's entirely up to you.

At no point did I engage in any "argument".



A couple of points.

I don't attack you at every turn, only when you sprout a lot of nonsense. Which unfortunately, is all of the time.

Secondly, you call WT's post "incoherent nonsense" because you are off the opinion that he is "verkramp". Whether he is or isn't verkramp (and to be honest he does hold much more "verkrampte" views than me) should not be a factor when arguing his post. It really seems like all you are doing is "Oh, that post was made by a right-winger and is therefore wrong". You clearly didn't understand his post, which is 100% true - even "lefty" politicians, journalists and academia agrees - as they are literally every excuse used by the ANC to try to shift the blame for their own failures.

You didn't engage in any argument? So by responding to WT's post and calling it nonsense you are not arguing? Interesting viewpoint.

If there's one very good piece of advice I can offer you, it'll be to hear other people out, listen to what they say, and determine whether it's true or not - no matter who the other person is or what his political persuasions are. I find myself agreeing with Julius Malema, Maimane, Pieter Mulder, Jeremy Cronin and others very often. But I also disagree with them just as often. From that list, it might surprise you that Jeremy Cronin is actually one of the politicians I agree with most, and I have a lot of respect for him as politician, even though I'm everything but a communist or socialist.


Nothing to do with the above, but a question I wanted to ask you for quite some time now.... and I'm solely looking for your personal opinion and feelings on this matter given your acquaintance with the person involved. Not trying to engage in an argument with you (especially now that we know you don't do arguments). Just looking for your feelings on this, honestly. I won't even respond to your answer.

You have stated on here that you shared a flat with Derek Hanekom back in the 80s. You should thus know him rather well and might even consider him a friend.

What is your feelings about the fact that he tabled a motion of no confidence in Zuma at their NEC meeting, but will not have the ethics to vote for a similar motion in parliament (unless maybe they do go for a secret ballot)? Does this skew your opinion of him? Would you call him an honourable person if he voted against such a motion in parliament? Realise this is the one thing you and I, and WT and Nipper and Max du Preez and Melanie Verwoerd and Julius Malema AND Pieter Mulder agree on - that Zuma must go.

Thanks, but I don't need you to lecture me.


Fair enough, I won't do to you what you so love to do to the rest of us.

But be a gentleman and just answer my question about your friend Mr. Hanekom please.


*I'm starting to get the impression you read posts in the following way:
- check who the author is.
- read first sentence.
- quickly scan for something that may offend you, or anybody else except white males
- be offender
- throw hissy-fit


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:59 pm 
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But black bubblefart was democratically elected, he even won the popular vote? I'm surprised to see certain posters shift in thought with regards to questioning and standing up to an elected official.

A new progressive spine.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:04 pm 
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troglodiet wrote:
Rinkals wrote:
troglodiet wrote:
Rinkals wrote:
If you want to attack me at every turn, that's entirely up to you.

I posted an article on the Gupta emails. WT then posted some incoherent nonsense which I took for the usual verkrampt WT diatribe and which you obviously took for elevated satire. Fair enough. Your opinion of WT is obviously a lot higher than mine, but that's entirely up to you.

At no point did I engage in any "argument".



A couple of points.

I don't attack you at every turn, only when you sprout a lot of nonsense. Which unfortunately, is all of the time.

Secondly, you call WT's post "incoherent nonsense" because you are off the opinion that he is "verkramp". Whether he is or isn't verkramp (and to be honest he does hold much more "verkrampte" views than me) should not be a factor when arguing his post. It really seems like all you are doing is "Oh, that post was made by a right-winger and is therefore wrong". You clearly didn't understand his post, which is 100% true - even "lefty" politicians, journalists and academia agrees - as they are literally every excuse used by the ANC to try to shift the blame for their own failures.

You didn't engage in any argument? So by responding to WT's post and calling it nonsense you are not arguing? Interesting viewpoint.

If there's one very good piece of advice I can offer you, it'll be to hear other people out, listen to what they say, and determine whether it's true or not - no matter who the other person is or what his political persuasions are. I find myself agreeing with Julius Malema, Maimane, Pieter Mulder, Jeremy Cronin and others very often. But I also disagree with them just as often. From that list, it might surprise you that Jeremy Cronin is actually one of the politicians I agree with most, and I have a lot of respect for him as politician, even though I'm everything but a communist or socialist.


Nothing to do with the above, but a question I wanted to ask you for quite some time now.... and I'm solely looking for your personal opinion and feelings on this matter given your acquaintance with the person involved. Not trying to engage in an argument with you (especially now that we know you don't do arguments). Just looking for your feelings on this, honestly. I won't even respond to your answer.

You have stated on here that you shared a flat with Derek Hanekom back in the 80s. You should thus know him rather well and might even consider him a friend.

What is your feelings about the fact that he tabled a motion of no confidence in Zuma at their NEC meeting, but will not have the ethics to vote for a similar motion in parliament (unless maybe they do go for a secret ballot)? Does this skew your opinion of him? Would you call him an honourable person if he voted against such a motion in parliament? Realise this is the one thing you and I, and WT and Nipper and Max du Preez and Melanie Verwoerd and Julius Malema AND Pieter Mulder agree on - that Zuma must go.

Thanks, but I don't need you to lecture me.


Fair enough, I won't do to you what you so love to do to the rest of us.

But be a gentleman and just answer my question about your friend Mr. Hanekom please.


*I'm starting to get the impression you read posts in the following way:
- check who the author is.
- read first sentence.
- quickly scan for something that may offend you, or anybody else except white males
- be offender
- throw hissy-fit

WTF?

"I get the impression..."?

I am merely posting articles on the South African political thread about political events. I don't really care what your impression of me is, but I am aware that you have some standing on this forum and you obviously hope to tar me as some kind of deranged imbecile.

WT and I come from completely different backgrounds in terms of me being english and a liberal. I know he despises me for it and that's fair enough; I am not particularly well disposed towards him either.

Please don't bother giving me another lecture on how you think I should behave or what your impression is of me: I really couldn't be arsed.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:15 am 
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Rinkals wrote:
WTF?

"I get the impression..."?

I am merely posting articles on the South African political thread about political events. I don't really care what your impression of me is, but I am aware that you have some standing on this forum and you obviously hope to tar me as some kind of deranged imbecile.

WT and I come from completely different backgrounds in terms of me being english and a liberal. I know he despises me for it and that's fair enough; I am not particularly well disposed towards him either.

Please don't bother giving me another lecture on how you think I should behave or what your impression is of me: I really couldn't be arsed.



I'm going to ignore everything in your post and won't comment on any specific statement or request.


This post merely serves to request you, Rinkals, to give your OPINION on the questions I asked about Derek Hanekom. I ask YOUR opinion on this purely due to you having stated on a previous occasion that the two of you used to be flatmates.

For clarity, I will repeat the question:

Quote:
...I'm solely looking for your personal opinion and feelings on this matter given your acquaintance with the person involved. Not trying to engage in an argument with you. Just looking for your feelings on this, honestly. I won't even respond to your answer.

You have stated on here that you shared a flat with Derek Hanekom back in the 80s. You should thus know him rather well and might even consider him a friend.

What is your feelings about the fact that he tabled a motion of no confidence in Zuma at their NEC meeting, but will not have the ethics to vote for a similar motion in parliament (unless maybe they do go for a secret ballot)? Does this skew your opinion of him? Would you call him an honourable person if he voted against such a motion in parliament? Realise this is the one thing you and I, and WT and Nipper and Max du Preez and Melanie Verwoerd and Julius Malema AND Pieter Mulder agree on - that Zuma must go.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:47 pm 
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Thank for drawing my attention to that.

You are right, I only read the part where you were lecturing me on how I should behave on here and didn't really have the time or the inclination to bother with the rest of it.

But thanks for putting us back on track rather than continue with this petty infighting.

I haven't spoken to Derek for a year or two, certainly not since the Zupta thing gained currency.

He called for the motion for Zuma to step down in November, but I didn't expect there to be a lot of support for the subsequent call in the last NEC meeting, even with the Gupta email leaks. Again, I can't see too many ANC MPs voting with the DA, if and when the no-confidence debate happens, secret ballot or no.

I know Derek for an honourable man (a lot more pragmatic than his wife, Trish, who was a real firebrand - I was at a dinner with them a few years ago and she had a bit of a go at me) but I would imagine that he would vote as directed by the Whip, especially as he heads the disciplinary council.

It seems obvious that, if he had the courage of his convictions, he would vote with the opposition and against Zuma. After all, that's what he has been trying to do in the last 2 NEC meetings. However, from a pragmatic point of view, what would that achieve? I doubt that they'll get the numbers to unseat Zuma and force an election, so all it would do is paint him as a traitor and a counter-revolutionary which would limit his influence and empower Zuma's supporters.

For the ANC to survive, Zuma and his proxy, Dlamini-Zuma, will be ousted in December. Failing which, I would anticipate a purge and a probable split which will make an ANC victory in 2019 a lot less likely.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 4:43 pm 
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Despise you ? For being a liberal and English ?

Dear God, you presume too much.

I do not despise you - I find you amusing. Like a puppy.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:57 pm 
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So now the PP is doing her bit to scare off investors and destroy business confidence and devalue the rand. Seems like every fuckwit in government is trying to destroy the country before they get thrown out


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:16 pm 
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They are playing to a populist oriented auduence The main thing now is to get the approval of Dlamini -Zuma as Presidential candidate for the next session. For that they musr dizcomfit white monopoly capital (the opposition) and threaten whites/business/the West into submission. People like Hanekom will also be classes as such.

It is a mafia fighting for a takeover and survival. Nothing more. The ANC has been totally captured, Years ago.


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