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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:19 pm 
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Any Saffers feel the earth tremors, about 30 minutes ago ?


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:48 pm 
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Wilson's Toffee wrote:
Any Saffers feel the earth tremors, about 30 minutes ago ?

If you are in Jo'burg, they are very common.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:05 pm 
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houtkabouter wrote:
I don't think anything is going to happen about this. People dont seem to have the energy.



My feelings exactly.

Today was "Black Monday": all Saffas were supposed to wear black to show their anger at what has happened. Not many people did it - myself included. Apart from being able to upload photos of you in black on Facebook, what difference will it make?

Then off course there's this big thing planned for Friday. Marches all over the country, every town and city. My bet is that at most 2,000 people will show up for the biggest one. And Zuma will laugh it off.

It will all boil down to get another vote of no confidence by parliament. Lots of expectations that some ANC MPs will vote with the opposition. It won't happen. ANC will vote to keep JZ in power, because that's what the ANC tells them to do. JZ will survive yet again. And giggle.

And we'll just get used to the new way of living.

I've never been part of the "we're about to become another Zimbabwe" crowd. I'm not so sure about my feelings on this anymore.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:10 pm 
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Fangle wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote:
Any Saffers feel the earth tremors, about 30 minutes ago ?

If you are in Jo'burg, they are very common.



2 quakes.

First on the West Rand due to mining activities. Nothing new.

Then a second, actually just tremors not a quake, felt in Durban and Cape Town, from an earth quake somewhere in the ocean.

Didn't feel anything here. But having grown up in Springs during the height of their mining activities there, I guess I'm too used to small little quakes.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:24 pm 
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troglodiet wrote:
houtkabouter wrote:
I don't think anything is going to happen about this. People dont seem to have the energy.



My feelings exactly.

Today was "Black Monday": all Saffas were supposed to wear black to show their anger at what has happened. Not many people did it - myself included. Apart from being able to upload photos of you in black on Facebook, what difference will it make?

Then off course there's this big thing planned for Friday. Marches all over the country, every town and city. My bet is that at most 2,000 people will show up for the biggest one. And Zuma will laugh it off.

It will all boil down to get another vote of no confidence by parliament. Lots of expectations that some ANC MPs will vote with the opposition. It won't happen. ANC will vote to keep JZ in power, because that's what the ANC tells them to do. JZ will survive yet again. And giggle.

And we'll just get used to the new way of living.

I've never been part of the "we're about to become another Zimbabwe" crowd. I'm not so sure about my feelings on this anymore.
it's a pity because people protesting could be a good thing.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:54 pm 
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I disagree. Just because things aren't changing immediately, doesn't mean they're not changing.

The events in South Africa in the last few days, and hours, are unprecedented. From what I've been reading and hearing, I've never seen the country so angry. All the big players are still digesting events, such as the SACP, Cosatu, the DA, an nobody is quite ready to make drastic decisions. Which is a shame, as I feel like now the time for a natural leader to take control of events. People seem to be rallying behind Gordan, but I'm not sure if he's the person to lead us.

The ANC is showing a massive split like never before, even the ANC pr machine can't hide the fracture. There is no way that there will be a return to business after this.

I'd personally like to see the DA making the most of the situation, but they appear to have lost their 'big match temperament' and seem more interested in punishing Zille than making the most of this. If I was Maimane I would be all over the papers and TV like never before, but this is another problem I think he has to address.

Let's see what comes of the marches. I'm not expecting much, as I think we have to pin our hopes on the motion of no confidence that is being processed, which is where I suspect most politicians are spending their time debating behind closed doors. That's our best chance of change, and it's never been closer to happening than today.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:55 pm 
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houtkabouter wrote:
troglodiet wrote:
houtkabouter wrote:
I don't think anything is going to happen about this. People dont seem to have the energy.



My feelings exactly.

Today was "Black Monday": all Saffas were supposed to wear black to show their anger at what has happened. Not many people did it - myself included. Apart from being able to upload photos of you in black on Facebook, what difference will it make?

Then off course there's this big thing planned for Friday. Marches all over the country, every town and city. My bet is that at most 2,000 people will show up for the biggest one. And Zuma will laugh it off.

It will all boil down to get another vote of no confidence by parliament. Lots of expectations that some ANC MPs will vote with the opposition. It won't happen. ANC will vote to keep JZ in power, because that's what the ANC tells them to do. JZ will survive yet again. And giggle.

And we'll just get used to the new way of living.

I've never been part of the "we're about to become another Zimbabwe" crowd. I'm not so sure about my feelings on this anymore.
it's a pity because people protesting could be a good thing.


as long as it doesn't get out of hand as so many protests tend to do these days.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:59 pm 
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houtkabouter wrote:
troglodiet wrote:
houtkabouter wrote:
I don't think anything is going to happen about this. People dont seem to have the energy.



My feelings exactly.

Today was "Black Monday": all Saffas were supposed to wear black to show their anger at what has happened. Not many people did it - myself included. Apart from being able to upload photos of you in black on Facebook, what difference will it make?

Then off course there's this big thing planned for Friday. Marches all over the country, every town and city. My bet is that at most 2,000 people will show up for the biggest one. And Zuma will laugh it off.

It will all boil down to get another vote of no confidence by parliament. Lots of expectations that some ANC MPs will vote with the opposition. It won't happen. ANC will vote to keep JZ in power, because that's what the ANC tells them to do. JZ will survive yet again. And giggle.

And we'll just get used to the new way of living.

I've never been part of the "we're about to become another Zimbabwe" crowd. I'm not so sure about my feelings on this anymore.
it's a pity because people protesting could be a good thing.



I agree. If 500,000 people all over the country, from various racial and political groups could have one massive really/rallies, we'd be able to get our message across.

But we're South Africans. Unity isn't our 'thing'.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:11 pm 
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assfly wrote:
I disagree. Just because things aren't changing immediately, doesn't mean they're not changing.

The events in South Africa in the last few days, and hours, are unprecedented. From what I've been reading and hearing, I've never seen the country so angry. All the big players are still digesting events, such as the SACP, Cosatu, the DA, an nobody is quite ready to make drastic decisions. Which is a shame, as I feel like now the time for a natural leader to take control of events. People seem to be rallying behind Gordan, but I'm not sure if he's the person to lead us.

The ANC is showing a massive split like never before, even the ANC pr machine can't hide the fracture. There is no way that there will be a return to business after this.

I'd personally like to see the DA making the most of the situation, but they appear to have lost their 'big match temperament' and seem more interested in punishing Zille than making the most of this. If I was Maimane I would be all over the papers and TV like never before, but this is another problem I think he has to address.

Let's see what comes of the marches. I'm not expecting much, as I think we have to pin our hopes on the motion of no confidence that is being processed, which is where I suspect most politicians are spending their time debating behind closed doors. That's our best chance of change, and it's never been closer to happening than today.




Don't hold your breath for anything to come from the vote of no confidence, IF that even happens.

Before the actual reshuffle, just when word got out that Gordhan will be fired. 20 ministers indicated they will immediately resign in solidarity. This would also make it easier for them to vote with the opposition and against ANC protocol.

Rhamaposa already backtracked, saying he won't resign and rather "deal with the issue from within pay structures". Other ministers just gone quiet on their resignation.

And then there's this:

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/anc-mps-must-toe-party-line-or-be-replaced-mabuza-20170403


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:18 pm 
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https://www.da.org.za/2017/04/zumamustfall-opposition-united-behind-putting-sa-first/


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:24 pm 
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saffer13 wrote:
You've always been a bit of an ANC apologist though rinki.

Don't let the facts get in the way of your narrative, will you?


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 2:32 pm 
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Mabula: Don't damage property during protest else we'll shoot you dead. x(

http://ewn.co.za/2017/04/04/mbalula-iss ... protesters

Fikile Mbalula wrote:
And those who embark on violent protests must stop. If they don’t, we’ll stop them because the Constitution doesn’t say we must stop people who are protesting.
We must educate our people because I don’t want another Marikana here where police opened fire and people died. People must understand that protesting doesn’t mean to destroy property of the democratic state.


I guess Zuma gave him a very clear job description.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:12 pm 
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troglodiet wrote:
Fangle wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote:
Any Saffers feel the earth tremors, about 30 minutes ago ?

If you are in Jo'burg, they are very common.



2 quakes.

First on the West Rand due to mining activities. Nothing new.

Then a second, actually just tremors not a quake, felt in Durban and Cape Town, from an earth quake somewhere in the ocean.

Didn't feel anything here. But having grown up in Springs during the height of their mining activities there, I guess I'm too used to small little quakes.


The quake's epicentre was in Botswana-which may seem like the ocean but it is not- central/west of the CKGR. Bloody big quake for somewhere as geologically stable a base as the kalahari craton.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:20 pm 
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echo wrote:
troglodiet wrote:
Fangle wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote:
Any Saffers feel the earth tremors, about 30 minutes ago ?

If you are in Jo'burg, they are very common.



2 quakes.

First on the West Rand due to mining activities. Nothing new.

Then a second, actually just tremors not a quake, felt in Durban and Cape Town, from an earth quake somewhere in the ocean.

Didn't feel anything here. But having grown up in Springs during the height of their mining activities there, I guess I'm too used to small little quakes.


The quake's epicentre was in Botswana-which may seem like the ocean but it is not- central/west of the CKGR. Bloody big quake for somewhere as geologically stable a base as the kalahari craton.

Fracking?


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:52 pm 
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echo wrote:
troglodiet wrote:
Fangle wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote:
Any Saffers feel the earth tremors, about 30 minutes ago ?

If you are in Jo'burg, they are very common.



2 quakes.

First on the West Rand due to mining activities. Nothing new.

Then a second, actually just tremors not a quake, felt in Durban and Cape Town, from an earth quake somewhere in the ocean.

Didn't feel anything here. But having grown up in Springs during the height of their mining activities there, I guess I'm too used to small little quakes.


The quake's epicentre was in Botswana-which may seem like the ocean but it is not- central/west of the CKGR. Bloody big quake for somewhere as geologically stable a base as the kalahari craton.



My apologies.

First reported to have had its epicenter somewhere of the coast North of Madagascar.

Either updated or there might have been 2 maybe? Either way, I didn't see the reports (updates?) of the epicenter being in Botswana.

Weird that a quake in Botswana was felt in Durban and Cape Town though.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:53 am 
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Bad news.

It looks like Zuma has managed to win this round.

The Rand has started it's free fall.

I can't see it ending here, though.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:58 am 
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Rinkals wrote:
Bad news.

It looks like Zuma has managed to win this round.

The Rand has started it's free fall.

I can't see it ending here, though.


The sad ironing is that the biggest crook has the best constitution to protect him and his fellow gangsters.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:12 pm 
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Rinkals wrote:
Bad news.

It looks like Zuma has managed to win this round.

The Rand has started it's free fall.

I can't see it ending here, though.


Not sure why anyone would be surprised.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:37 pm 
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JZ was head of the ANC Intelligence branch for years. He has dirt on everyone. The man is shrewd.


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 Post subject: SA Politics Thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:41 pm 
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Chilli wrote:
JZ was head of the ANC Intelligence branch for years. He has dirt on everyone. The man is shrewd.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:46 pm 
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Rinkals wrote:
Bad news.

It looks like Zuma has managed to win this round.

The Rand has started it's free fall.

I can't see it ending here, though.


rabble wrote:
The only way to get rid of Zuma if for the ANC to do it;
And there's no way they'll do the right thing.


Called it. :(


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:00 pm 
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assfly wrote:
I disagree. Just because things aren't changing immediately, doesn't mean they're not changing.

The events in South Africa in the last few days, and hours, are unprecedented. From what I've been reading and hearing, I've never seen the country so angry. All the big players are still digesting events, such as the SACP, Cosatu, the DA, an nobody is quite ready to make drastic decisions. Which is a shame, as I feel like now the time for a natural leader to take control of events. People seem to be rallying behind Gordan, but I'm not sure if he's the person to lead us.

The ANC is showing a massive split like never before, even the ANC pr machine can't hide the fracture. There is no way that there will be a return to business after this.

I'd personally like to see the DA making the most of the situation, but they appear to have lost their 'big match temperament' and seem more interested in punishing Zille than making the most of this. If I was Maimane I would be all over the papers and TV like never before, but this is another problem I think he has to address.

Let's see what comes of the marches. I'm not expecting much, as I think we have to pin our hopes on the motion of no confidence that is being processed, which is where I suspect most politicians are spending their time debating behind closed doors. That's our best chance of change, and it's never been closer to happening than today.


Could the end result for Zuma be he is removed by an ANC meeting as Mbeki was?


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:00 pm 
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Melanie Verword paints a bit of a glum picture:
http://www.news24.com/Columnists/MelanieVerwoerd/a-vote-of-no-confidence-could-make-things-worse-20170405

As Bokkom said, Zuma has a progressive constitution to protect him.

This has moved into an interesting phase.

Those who spoke out against Zuma have been humiliated, but they won't have gone away. Zuma cannot get rid of Montashe and Ramaphosa as these are elected positions.

The Rand is trading at close to 14. Things are not going to get easier for Zuma.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:03 pm 
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on the positive side, at least all the money that Zuma is stealing is useless. #scorchedrand


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:05 pm 
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Flyin Ryan wrote:
assfly wrote:
I disagree. Just because things aren't changing immediately, doesn't mean they're not changing.

The events in South Africa in the last few days, and hours, are unprecedented. From what I've been reading and hearing, I've never seen the country so angry. All the big players are still digesting events, such as the SACP, Cosatu, the DA, an nobody is quite ready to make drastic decisions. Which is a shame, as I feel like now the time for a natural leader to take control of events. People seem to be rallying behind Gordan, but I'm not sure if he's the person to lead us.

The ANC is showing a massive split like never before, even the ANC pr machine can't hide the fracture. There is no way that there will be a return to business after this.

I'd personally like to see the DA making the most of the situation, but they appear to have lost their 'big match temperament' and seem more interested in punishing Zille than making the most of this. If I was Maimane I would be all over the papers and TV like never before, but this is another problem I think he has to address.

Let's see what comes of the marches. I'm not expecting much, as I think we have to pin our hopes on the motion of no confidence that is being processed, which is where I suspect most politicians are spending their time debating behind closed doors. That's our best chance of change, and it's never been closer to happening than today.


Could the end result for Zuma be he is removed by an ANC meeting as Mbeki was?

Technically, they could, but they will be reluctant to do it again.

If ever a President deserved a recall, it's Zuma.

What will happen is that the voices against him will be louder and louder to the point where it will become untenable.

I don't think we can expect a no-confidence debate to succeed, but I don't think there'll be too many to speak in support of Zuma.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:14 pm 
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Rinkals wrote:
Flyin Ryan wrote:
assfly wrote:
I disagree. Just because things aren't changing immediately, doesn't mean they're not changing.

The events in South Africa in the last few days, and hours, are unprecedented. From what I've been reading and hearing, I've never seen the country so angry. All the big players are still digesting events, such as the SACP, Cosatu, the DA, an nobody is quite ready to make drastic decisions. Which is a shame, as I feel like now the time for a natural leader to take control of events. People seem to be rallying behind Gordan, but I'm not sure if he's the person to lead us.

The ANC is showing a massive split like never before, even the ANC pr machine can't hide the fracture. There is no way that there will be a return to business after this.

I'd personally like to see the DA making the most of the situation, but they appear to have lost their 'big match temperament' and seem more interested in punishing Zille than making the most of this. If I was Maimane I would be all over the papers and TV like never before, but this is another problem I think he has to address.

Let's see what comes of the marches. I'm not expecting much, as I think we have to pin our hopes on the motion of no confidence that is being processed, which is where I suspect most politicians are spending their time debating behind closed doors. That's our best chance of change, and it's never been closer to happening than today.


Could the end result for Zuma be he is removed by an ANC meeting as Mbeki was?

Technically, they could, but they will be reluctant to do it again.

If ever a President deserved a recall, it's Zuma.

What will happen is that the voices against him will be louder and louder to the point where it will become untenable.

I don't think we can expect a no-confidence debate to succeed, but I don't think there'll be too many to speak in support of Zuma.


Well, what's the practical endgame then? If you don't expect the ANC to remove him in a party conference, and you think a parliamentary vote of no confidence by the minority would not work, you're thinking the guy will just decide to resign on his own accord?


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:23 pm 
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troglodiet wrote:
echo wrote:
troglodiet wrote:
Fangle wrote:
Wilson's Toffee wrote:
Any Saffers feel the earth tremors, about 30 minutes ago ?

If you are in Jo'burg, they are very common.



2 quakes.

First on the West Rand due to mining activities. Nothing new.

Then a second, actually just tremors not a quake, felt in Durban and Cape Town, from an earth quake somewhere in the ocean.

Didn't feel anything here. But having grown up in Springs during the height of their mining activities there, I guess I'm too used to small little quakes.


The quake's epicentre was in Botswana-which may seem like the ocean but it is not- central/west of the CKGR. Bloody big quake for somewhere as geologically stable a base as the kalahari craton.





My apologies.

First reported to have had its epicenter somewhere of the coast North of Madagascar.

Either updated or there might have been 2 maybe? Either way, I didn't see the reports (updates?) of the epicenter being in Botswana.

Weird that a quake in Botswana was felt in Durban and Cape Town though.


Was an astonishing 6.5 (!!!!)- but with little impact other than guttural rumbling- the benefit of the Kalahari craton being covered by a sand overburden several hundred metres thick in some places. another quake of 5 just after midnight.

or maybe it was just the collective sigh in rand-linked treasuries (like Namibia) when SA debt was downgraded.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:42 pm 
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Flyin Ryan wrote:
assfly wrote:
I disagree. Just because things aren't changing immediately, doesn't mean they're not changing.

The events in South Africa in the last few days, and hours, are unprecedented. From what I've been reading and hearing, I've never seen the country so angry. All the big players are still digesting events, such as the SACP, Cosatu, the DA, an nobody is quite ready to make drastic decisions. Which is a shame, as I feel like now the time for a natural leader to take control of events. People seem to be rallying behind Gordan, but I'm not sure if he's the person to lead us.

The ANC is showing a massive split like never before, even the ANC pr machine can't hide the fracture. There is no way that there will be a return to business after this.

I'd personally like to see the DA making the most of the situation, but they appear to have lost their 'big match temperament' and seem more interested in punishing Zille than making the most of this. If I was Maimane I would be all over the papers and TV like never before, but this is another problem I think he has to address.

Let's see what comes of the marches. I'm not expecting much, as I think we have to pin our hopes on the motion of no confidence that is being processed, which is where I suspect most politicians are spending their time debating behind closed doors. That's our best chance of change, and it's never been closer to happening than today.


Could the end result for Zuma be he is removed by an ANC meeting as Mbeki was?


I could be wrong but I don't think Mbeki had his claws into as many people as Zuma does.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:16 pm 
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Flyin Ryan wrote:
Rinkals wrote:
Flyin Ryan wrote:
assfly wrote:
I disagree. Just because things aren't changing immediately, doesn't mean they're not changing.

The events in South Africa in the last few days, and hours, are unprecedented. From what I've been reading and hearing, I've never seen the country so angry. All the big players are still digesting events, such as the SACP, Cosatu, the DA, an nobody is quite ready to make drastic decisions. Which is a shame, as I feel like now the time for a natural leader to take control of events. People seem to be rallying behind Gordan, but I'm not sure if he's the person to lead us.

The ANC is showing a massive split like never before, even the ANC pr machine can't hide the fracture. There is no way that there will be a return to business after this.

I'd personally like to see the DA making the most of the situation, but they appear to have lost their 'big match temperament' and seem more interested in punishing Zille than making the most of this. If I was Maimane I would be all over the papers and TV like never before, but this is another problem I think he has to address.

Let's see what comes of the marches. I'm not expecting much, as I think we have to pin our hopes on the motion of no confidence that is being processed, which is where I suspect most politicians are spending their time debating behind closed doors. That's our best chance of change, and it's never been closer to happening than today.


Could the end result for Zuma be he is removed by an ANC meeting as Mbeki was?

Technically, they could, but they will be reluctant to do it again.

If ever a President deserved a recall, it's Zuma.

What will happen is that the voices against him will be louder and louder to the point where it will become untenable.

I don't think we can expect a no-confidence debate to succeed, but I don't think there'll be too many to speak in support of Zuma.


Well, what's the practical endgame then? If you don't expect the ANC to remove him in a party conference, and you think a parliamentary vote of no confidence by the minority would not work, you're thinking the guy will just decide to resign on his own accord?

Ah, yes, he's due to step down at the end of the year, I think, which is the next party conference, but he won't go before then.

He's hoping to install his wife (technically she's his ex-wife, but she still apparently lives with him and of course her children are big beneficiaries of his Gupta partnership) as President so that he can continue to rule, much as Putin did.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:22 pm 
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Let's see who can complete the jigsaw puzzle first....


Image


(Credit: Esfera - Shutterstock)


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:25 pm 
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'We'll defend Zuma with our lives‚' vow KZN MK vets - More than 600 "combat-ready" military veterans will be sent to Johannesburg from KwaZulu-Natal to defend President Jacob Zuma.


Defend him from what exactly?


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:12 pm 
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Even with Moody's saying it will review SA only in the next month or so, the country will likely to be downgraded by all rating agencies, warns an economist.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:45 am 
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saffer13 wrote:
Quote:
'We'll defend Zuma with our lives‚' vow KZN MK vets - More than 600 "combat-ready" military veterans will be sent to Johannesburg from KwaZulu-Natal to defend President Jacob Zuma.


Defend him from what exactly?

THere is a planned march on Friday(it was originally planned to be to Luthuli House, but the ANCYL have promised to attack the marchers with sjamboks).

Lets hope there are more than a couple of dozen marchers.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:09 am 
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saffer13 wrote:
Flyin Ryan wrote:
Could the end result for Zuma be he is removed by an ANC meeting as Mbeki was?


I could be wrong but I don't think Mbeki had his claws into as many people as Zuma does.


I don't think it's quite like that.

Zuma has built a system of patronage, where loyalists get a chance at the trough.

Gordhan had cut off the feed, so he had to go. Obviously, if Zuma goes the feed gets stopped again.

Zuma also has massive tribal support from Natal.

And of course there's always the race card. Zuma stands against "White Minority Capital" and in favour of "Radical Economic Transformation", which has a lot of support.

I was listening to 702 on Monday evening after the ratings cut and was extremely disappointed by the number of angry black voices phoning in in support of Zuma and denouncing the ratings cut as a white regime change tactic.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:08 am 
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Analysis: A closer look at the ANC NWC’s statement reveals not so Zuma-friendly side

After four days of late-night announcements, angry press conferences, furious statements, and leaked speeches, it was time for the first major ANC structure to meet to discuss President Jacob Zuma, and the reaction to his factional reshuffle and removal of Pravin Gordhan from the Finance Ministry. In the end, the National Working Committee, surprising no one, simply resolved to “discuss” with Cosatu and the SACP their calls for Zuma to leave. At first glance it looks almost as if nothing has changed, that Zuma is still the MacDaddy of our politics, and the game goes on the same way as it has for many years. But look a little deeper, and it’s possible that the rules of the game have actually changed quite dramatically. By STEPHEN GROOTES.

The ANC is nothing if not predictable. Zuma does something. There is righteous fury and furious anger. Society gets moving, people mutter darkly about Parliament passing a vote of no confidence. After a climax of press conferences, eventually a top ANC structure meets and glosses over it all.

Zuma stays on to giggle another day.

On the face of it, that is exactly what has happened here. There had been huge momentum building up, from Friday night’s dramatic statement by the SACP that Zuma must be removed from office, through to Cosatu's press conference on Monday that basically agreed with the communists. This was all new in our politics. It smelt, to some at least, as if change was in the air, that this momentum was irresistible, until it came into close personal combat with the immovable rock that is Zuma’s built-in majority on the NWC.

The NWC’s statement seems particularly limp-wristed. For many people the only issue that mattered was whether it would suggest an early National Executive Committee meeting to discuss removing Zuma from office. And all it said on that was that “the officials and the members of the NEC must continue to engage with Cosatu, SACP and organs of civil society on this matter”.

Still, to use the removal of Zuma as the only yardstick is misleading. Considering that the ANC has never in its history removed a sitting leader from the presidency (Mbeki was obviously a former leader of the ANC by the time he was removed), it is difficult to consider that not achieving something that has never happened before is a failure.

In all of what is happening around us it can be important to remember this; Gwede Mantashe, Deputy President Cyril Ramaphosa and ANC Treasurer Zweli Mkhize would have known on Friday, when they started to criticise the process followed in the reshuffle, that Zuma would always be safe in the NWC. They would have known the maths of the ANC structures better than almost anyone (the only other possible “one” is, of course, Zuma himself). But despite knowing all of that, they went ahead and made their criticism public anyway. Which means they knew a defeat was coming in this structure.

So then, if that is the case, why did they go public in the first place?

One could argue that it was out of sheer principle. But they didn’t do this during Nkandla, or the State of Capture report, so we can probably agree that the HMS Principle sailed a long time ago. It could be possible, perhaps, that they feel the NWC was never going to be the right structure for this, and actually they have to wait for another structure to have the real fight. Which means that it is the NEC that is really going to matter. Certainly the maths is harder to determine there, and it seems to be less completely overwhelmingly in favour of Zuma than it was, say, two years ago.

There is another possibility: that Mantashe, Ramaphosa and Mkhize are actually fighting, not to remove Zuma, but the leadership contest. Surely that is the most important thing, in the longer term, for them, the ANC, and every South African. Perhaps, like a boxer who has to face an opponent over a full 15 rounds, it helps now to reveal their weaknesses, their true character if you like, while doing as much damage as you can in the earlier rounds, even though you’ll take some punishment in the first place.

If that is the strategy, they may have actually have been more successful than at first it seemed.

Even in the actual statement of the NWC, the words agreed to by the people in the room, there is a repudiation of what Zuma has said, an actual refusal to buy his version of events. Much has been made of the claim by Zuma to have an “intelligence report” suggesting that Pravin Gordhan and Mcebisi Jonas were enlisting the aid of international bankers in their tussle with Zuma. Mantashe, representing the NWC, states that they agree the relationship between Zuma and Gordhan had broken down irretrievably. But the NWC then goes on to say:

“The issue of the intelligence report complicated the matter, creating a lot of unhappiness. This was consequently presented as the only reason for his removal which was unfortunate and incorrect.”

In normal times, the NWC of the ANC, with the backers of Zuma that it has, calling his version of events “unfortunate and incorrect” would be a massive shift. This is surely a public rebuke for Zuma. And this in itself must be unprecedented. In comparison, during Nkandla, the NWC didn’t go this far in its treatment of Zuma.

There is more evidence of a shift in the NWC in its explicit quotation of an ANC conference resolution around reshuffles, which states:

“The prerogative of the President, premiers and mayors to appoint and release members of the Cabinet, executive councils and mayoral committees should be exercised after consultation with the leadership of the organisation.”

In other words, this is the NWC saying, explicitly, that in this case the consultation process was not followed. Again, an unprecedented repudiation of Zuma’s version of events, in public.

And considering that it has been Mantashe, Ramaphosa and Mkhize who have been saying exactly this in public, it certainly looks like the NWC is implicitly backing their version of events.

There is also something significant in what has not been said. The NWC essentially accepted that the top six as a structure had not dealt with the reshuffle in the correct way. It did not lambaste, criticise or discipline the three members who had spoken out by name. This is important. If they were on weak ground, they would have been named and shamed; they were not. And they have not been forced to apologise either. Which means, surely, that some of what they said still stands, that it has not been undone by the force of magical politics, or mysteriously forgotten. What they did is still with us.

That alone is significant.

Of course, the NWC has taken the trouble to congratulate the new appointees, and thus, some would say, give its blessing to Zuma’s factional reshuffle. That must surely be true. But it would also be hard for the NWC not to congratulate them, it has to say something. And they are, technically at least, ANC deployees, which means they can’t go into office without the ANC’s blessing. In public at least.

We have a moment now to draw breath for the first time since last Monday morning, and to do that is to realise that the game that is afoot in our politics has changed quite significantly.

For a start, both Cosatu and the SACP have now publicly said it – they want Zuma to go. Some things cannot be put back into the donkey. They cannot unsay it now. And if they were, both organisations would split quite dramatically. This really changes the game, because both groups will be pushed by their constituencies to keep the pressure up on Zuma and the ANC. It is possible to argue that the real fight is in the ANC, and Cosatu and the SACP don’t matter that much. To an extent that’s true, but both of them have members who belong to the ANC. And they are both important as they serve as proxies; they represent different parts of the ANC through their inter-meshed political relationships. They serve as the public voice of the disaffected faction within the ANC that for various reasons can’t be quite as vociferous in public.

There is also the possibility that what is happening now around the SACP could only find its full expression in its congress later this year. Already there have been strong hints that the party’s members will vote to leave the alliance as a formal structure. If it continues to be ignored in this way, that can only further drive that dynamic, with consequences that will be far-reaching for our politics.

However, the most important change to the politics within the ANC is probably the fact that everything is now out in the open. That recording of Ramaphosa saying that a “moment of great renewal us upon us” and referring to “getting rid of greedy people, corrupt people within our ranks” cannot be removed or deleted. We, and everyone in the ANC, can now decide for ourselves what the fight is really about, and where the battle lines are. As Mantashe himself suggested in the press conference on Monday, it was an easy meeting, because everyone could be candid, that they could say what they wanted to say. This is a significant shift, because it means the entire leadership fight is now out in the open, unlike in the past. And it means we are likely to see those who support Ramaphosa speaking out in the open more often, with more freedom than they have in the past. They will know it will be harder for anyone in the ANC to take action against him. And of course, after everything that’s happened, they will have more ammunition.

While for many people, getting rid of Zuma now is the only game in town, in the longer run the leadership battle is probably going to matter more. Especially if you believe that Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma will govern the way Zuma has throughout his disastrous years. In this contest, it could be that Mantashe, Ramaphosa and Mkhize have actually shifted the ground, significantly changing the ANC’s game. DM

Link

I tend to agree with this piece.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:46 am 
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Mr. White wrote:
Quote:
Analysis: A closer look at the ANC NWC’s statement reveals not so Zuma-friendly side

After four days of late-night announcements, angry press conferences, furious statements, and leaked speeches, it was time for the first major ANC structure to meet to discuss President Jacob Zuma, and the reaction to his factional reshuffle and removal of Pravin Gordhan from the Finance Ministry. In the end, the National Working Committee, surprising no one, simply resolved to “discuss” with Cosatu and the SACP their calls for Zuma to leave. At first glance it looks almost as if nothing has changed, that Zuma is still the MacDaddy of our politics, and the game goes on the same way as it has for many years. But look a little deeper, and it’s possible that the rules of the game have actually changed quite dramatically. By STEPHEN GROOTES.

The ANC is nothing if not predictable. Zuma does something. There is righteous fury and furious anger. Society gets moving, people mutter darkly about Parliament passing a vote of no confidence. After a climax of press conferences, eventually a top ANC structure meets and glosses over it all.

Zuma stays on to giggle another day.

On the face of it, that is exactly what has happened here. There had been huge momentum building up, from Friday night’s dramatic statement by the SACP that Zuma must be removed from office, through to Cosatu's press conference on Monday that basically agreed with the communists. This was all new in our politics. It smelt, to some at least, as if change was in the air, that this momentum was irresistible, until it came into close personal combat with the immovable rock that is Zuma’s built-in majority on the NWC.

The NWC’s statement seems particularly limp-wristed. For many people the only issue that mattered was whether it would suggest an early National Executive Committee meeting to discuss removing Zuma from office. And all it said on that was that “the officials and the members of the NEC must continue to engage with Cosatu, SACP and organs of civil society on this matter”.

Still, to use the removal of Zuma as the only yardstick is misleading. Considering that the ANC has never in its history removed a sitting leader from the presidency (Mbeki was obviously a former leader of the ANC by the time he was removed), it is difficult to consider that not achieving something that has never happened before is a failure.

In all of what is happening around us it can be important to remember this; Gwede Mantashe, Deputy President Cyril Ramaphosa and ANC Treasurer Zweli Mkhize would have known on Friday, when they started to criticise the process followed in the reshuffle, that Zuma would always be safe in the NWC. They would have known the maths of the ANC structures better than almost anyone (the only other possible “one” is, of course, Zuma himself). But despite knowing all of that, they went ahead and made their criticism public anyway. Which means they knew a defeat was coming in this structure.

So then, if that is the case, why did they go public in the first place?

One could argue that it was out of sheer principle. But they didn’t do this during Nkandla, or the State of Capture report, so we can probably agree that the HMS Principle sailed a long time ago. It could be possible, perhaps, that they feel the NWC was never going to be the right structure for this, and actually they have to wait for another structure to have the real fight. Which means that it is the NEC that is really going to matter. Certainly the maths is harder to determine there, and it seems to be less completely overwhelmingly in favour of Zuma than it was, say, two years ago.

There is another possibility: that Mantashe, Ramaphosa and Mkhize are actually fighting, not to remove Zuma, but the leadership contest. Surely that is the most important thing, in the longer term, for them, the ANC, and every South African. Perhaps, like a boxer who has to face an opponent over a full 15 rounds, it helps now to reveal their weaknesses, their true character if you like, while doing as much damage as you can in the earlier rounds, even though you’ll take some punishment in the first place.

If that is the strategy, they may have actually have been more successful than at first it seemed.

Even in the actual statement of the NWC, the words agreed to by the people in the room, there is a repudiation of what Zuma has said, an actual refusal to buy his version of events. Much has been made of the claim by Zuma to have an “intelligence report” suggesting that Pravin Gordhan and Mcebisi Jonas were enlisting the aid of international bankers in their tussle with Zuma. Mantashe, representing the NWC, states that they agree the relationship between Zuma and Gordhan had broken down irretrievably. But the NWC then goes on to say:

“The issue of the intelligence report complicated the matter, creating a lot of unhappiness. This was consequently presented as the only reason for his removal which was unfortunate and incorrect.”

In normal times, the NWC of the ANC, with the backers of Zuma that it has, calling his version of events “unfortunate and incorrect” would be a massive shift. This is surely a public rebuke for Zuma. And this in itself must be unprecedented. In comparison, during Nkandla, the NWC didn’t go this far in its treatment of Zuma.

There is more evidence of a shift in the NWC in its explicit quotation of an ANC conference resolution around reshuffles, which states:

“The prerogative of the President, premiers and mayors to appoint and release members of the Cabinet, executive councils and mayoral committees should be exercised after consultation with the leadership of the organisation.”

In other words, this is the NWC saying, explicitly, that in this case the consultation process was not followed. Again, an unprecedented repudiation of Zuma’s version of events, in public.

And considering that it has been Mantashe, Ramaphosa and Mkhize who have been saying exactly this in public, it certainly looks like the NWC is implicitly backing their version of events.

There is also something significant in what has not been said. The NWC essentially accepted that the top six as a structure had not dealt with the reshuffle in the correct way. It did not lambaste, criticise or discipline the three members who had spoken out by name. This is important. If they were on weak ground, they would have been named and shamed; they were not. And they have not been forced to apologise either. Which means, surely, that some of what they said still stands, that it has not been undone by the force of magical politics, or mysteriously forgotten. What they did is still with us.

That alone is significant.

Of course, the NWC has taken the trouble to congratulate the new appointees, and thus, some would say, give its blessing to Zuma’s factional reshuffle. That must surely be true. But it would also be hard for the NWC not to congratulate them, it has to say something. And they are, technically at least, ANC deployees, which means they can’t go into office without the ANC’s blessing. In public at least.

We have a moment now to draw breath for the first time since last Monday morning, and to do that is to realise that the game that is afoot in our politics has changed quite significantly.

For a start, both Cosatu and the SACP have now publicly said it – they want Zuma to go. Some things cannot be put back into the donkey. They cannot unsay it now. And if they were, both organisations would split quite dramatically. This really changes the game, because both groups will be pushed by their constituencies to keep the pressure up on Zuma and the ANC. It is possible to argue that the real fight is in the ANC, and Cosatu and the SACP don’t matter that much. To an extent that’s true, but both of them have members who belong to the ANC. And they are both important as they serve as proxies; they represent different parts of the ANC through their inter-meshed political relationships. They serve as the public voice of the disaffected faction within the ANC that for various reasons can’t be quite as vociferous in public.

There is also the possibility that what is happening now around the SACP could only find its full expression in its congress later this year. Already there have been strong hints that the party’s members will vote to leave the alliance as a formal structure. If it continues to be ignored in this way, that can only further drive that dynamic, with consequences that will be far-reaching for our politics.

However, the most important change to the politics within the ANC is probably the fact that everything is now out in the open. That recording of Ramaphosa saying that a “moment of great renewal us upon us” and referring to “getting rid of greedy people, corrupt people within our ranks” cannot be removed or deleted. We, and everyone in the ANC, can now decide for ourselves what the fight is really about, and where the battle lines are. As Mantashe himself suggested in the press conference on Monday, it was an easy meeting, because everyone could be candid, that they could say what they wanted to say. This is a significant shift, because it means the entire leadership fight is now out in the open, unlike in the past. And it means we are likely to see those who support Ramaphosa speaking out in the open more often, with more freedom than they have in the past. They will know it will be harder for anyone in the ANC to take action against him. And of course, after everything that’s happened, they will have more ammunition.

While for many people, getting rid of Zuma now is the only game in town, in the longer run the leadership battle is probably going to matter more. Especially if you believe that Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma will govern the way Zuma has throughout his disastrous years. In this contest, it could be that Mantashe, Ramaphosa and Mkhize have actually shifted the ground, significantly changing the ANC’s game. DM

Link

I tend to agree with this piece.


Except that Mbete will stand in as acting president in the case of Zumas removal.......and all those that voted against Zuma will be systematically removed as has just happened with the cabinet shuffle , strengthening the position for Zuma s ex wife.

if Cyril has a plan he has to initiate it now. If he has support to remove Zuma now is his time to do it.
i believe there is an undercurrent movement taking place.

BTW I gave all my staff off for tomorrow to attend the marches.
One of my staff members is married to an EFF big wig and he says there are big plans afootn for tomorrow.

Me I will be supporting them in my heart as my family and I will be in the Baths in Citrusdal enjoying the weekend away from the chaos


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:00 am 
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Sards wrote:
Mr. White wrote:
Quote:
Analysis: A closer look at the ANC NWC’s statement reveals not so Zuma-friendly side

After four days of late-night announcements, angry press conferences, furious statements, and leaked speeches, it was time for the first major ANC structure to meet to discuss President Jacob Zuma, and the reaction to his factional reshuffle and removal of Pravin Gordhan from the Finance Ministry. In the end, the National Working Committee, surprising no one, simply resolved to “discuss” with Cosatu and the SACP their calls for Zuma to leave. At first glance it looks almost as if nothing has changed, that Zuma is still the MacDaddy of our politics, and the game goes on the same way as it has for many years. But look a little deeper, and it’s possible that the rules of the game have actually changed quite dramatically. By STEPHEN GROOTES.

The ANC is nothing if not predictable. Zuma does something. There is righteous fury and furious anger. Society gets moving, people mutter darkly about Parliament passing a vote of no confidence. After a climax of press conferences, eventually a top ANC structure meets and glosses over it all.

Zuma stays on to giggle another day.

On the face of it, that is exactly what has happened here. There had been huge momentum building up, from Friday night’s dramatic statement by the SACP that Zuma must be removed from office, through to Cosatu's press conference on Monday that basically agreed with the communists. This was all new in our politics. It smelt, to some at least, as if change was in the air, that this momentum was irresistible, until it came into close personal combat with the immovable rock that is Zuma’s built-in majority on the NWC.

The NWC’s statement seems particularly limp-wristed. For many people the only issue that mattered was whether it would suggest an early National Executive Committee meeting to discuss removing Zuma from office. And all it said on that was that “the officials and the members of the NEC must continue to engage with Cosatu, SACP and organs of civil society on this matter”.

Still, to use the removal of Zuma as the only yardstick is misleading. Considering that the ANC has never in its history removed a sitting leader from the presidency (Mbeki was obviously a former leader of the ANC by the time he was removed), it is difficult to consider that not achieving something that has never happened before is a failure.

In all of what is happening around us it can be important to remember this; Gwede Mantashe, Deputy President Cyril Ramaphosa and ANC Treasurer Zweli Mkhize would have known on Friday, when they started to criticise the process followed in the reshuffle, that Zuma would always be safe in the NWC. They would have known the maths of the ANC structures better than almost anyone (the only other possible “one” is, of course, Zuma himself). But despite knowing all of that, they went ahead and made their criticism public anyway. Which means they knew a defeat was coming in this structure.

So then, if that is the case, why did they go public in the first place?

One could argue that it was out of sheer principle. But they didn’t do this during Nkandla, or the State of Capture report, so we can probably agree that the HMS Principle sailed a long time ago. It could be possible, perhaps, that they feel the NWC was never going to be the right structure for this, and actually they have to wait for another structure to have the real fight. Which means that it is the NEC that is really going to matter. Certainly the maths is harder to determine there, and it seems to be less completely overwhelmingly in favour of Zuma than it was, say, two years ago.

There is another possibility: that Mantashe, Ramaphosa and Mkhize are actually fighting, not to remove Zuma, but the leadership contest. Surely that is the most important thing, in the longer term, for them, the ANC, and every South African. Perhaps, like a boxer who has to face an opponent over a full 15 rounds, it helps now to reveal their weaknesses, their true character if you like, while doing as much damage as you can in the earlier rounds, even though you’ll take some punishment in the first place.

If that is the strategy, they may have actually have been more successful than at first it seemed.

Even in the actual statement of the NWC, the words agreed to by the people in the room, there is a repudiation of what Zuma has said, an actual refusal to buy his version of events. Much has been made of the claim by Zuma to have an “intelligence report” suggesting that Pravin Gordhan and Mcebisi Jonas were enlisting the aid of international bankers in their tussle with Zuma. Mantashe, representing the NWC, states that they agree the relationship between Zuma and Gordhan had broken down irretrievably. But the NWC then goes on to say:

“The issue of the intelligence report complicated the matter, creating a lot of unhappiness. This was consequently presented as the only reason for his removal which was unfortunate and incorrect.”

In normal times, the NWC of the ANC, with the backers of Zuma that it has, calling his version of events “unfortunate and incorrect” would be a massive shift. This is surely a public rebuke for Zuma. And this in itself must be unprecedented. In comparison, during Nkandla, the NWC didn’t go this far in its treatment of Zuma.

There is more evidence of a shift in the NWC in its explicit quotation of an ANC conference resolution around reshuffles, which states:

“The prerogative of the President, premiers and mayors to appoint and release members of the Cabinet, executive councils and mayoral committees should be exercised after consultation with the leadership of the organisation.”

In other words, this is the NWC saying, explicitly, that in this case the consultation process was not followed. Again, an unprecedented repudiation of Zuma’s version of events, in public.

And considering that it has been Mantashe, Ramaphosa and Mkhize who have been saying exactly this in public, it certainly looks like the NWC is implicitly backing their version of events.

There is also something significant in what has not been said. The NWC essentially accepted that the top six as a structure had not dealt with the reshuffle in the correct way. It did not lambaste, criticise or discipline the three members who had spoken out by name. This is important. If they were on weak ground, they would have been named and shamed; they were not. And they have not been forced to apologise either. Which means, surely, that some of what they said still stands, that it has not been undone by the force of magical politics, or mysteriously forgotten. What they did is still with us.

That alone is significant.

Of course, the NWC has taken the trouble to congratulate the new appointees, and thus, some would say, give its blessing to Zuma’s factional reshuffle. That must surely be true. But it would also be hard for the NWC not to congratulate them, it has to say something. And they are, technically at least, ANC deployees, which means they can’t go into office without the ANC’s blessing. In public at least.

We have a moment now to draw breath for the first time since last Monday morning, and to do that is to realise that the game that is afoot in our politics has changed quite significantly.

For a start, both Cosatu and the SACP have now publicly said it – they want Zuma to go. Some things cannot be put back into the donkey. They cannot unsay it now. And if they were, both organisations would split quite dramatically. This really changes the game, because both groups will be pushed by their constituencies to keep the pressure up on Zuma and the ANC. It is possible to argue that the real fight is in the ANC, and Cosatu and the SACP don’t matter that much. To an extent that’s true, but both of them have members who belong to the ANC. And they are both important as they serve as proxies; they represent different parts of the ANC through their inter-meshed political relationships. They serve as the public voice of the disaffected faction within the ANC that for various reasons can’t be quite as vociferous in public.

There is also the possibility that what is happening now around the SACP could only find its full expression in its congress later this year. Already there have been strong hints that the party’s members will vote to leave the alliance as a formal structure. If it continues to be ignored in this way, that can only further drive that dynamic, with consequences that will be far-reaching for our politics.

However, the most important change to the politics within the ANC is probably the fact that everything is now out in the open. That recording of Ramaphosa saying that a “moment of great renewal us upon us” and referring to “getting rid of greedy people, corrupt people within our ranks” cannot be removed or deleted. We, and everyone in the ANC, can now decide for ourselves what the fight is really about, and where the battle lines are. As Mantashe himself suggested in the press conference on Monday, it was an easy meeting, because everyone could be candid, that they could say what they wanted to say. This is a significant shift, because it means the entire leadership fight is now out in the open, unlike in the past. And it means we are likely to see those who support Ramaphosa speaking out in the open more often, with more freedom than they have in the past. They will know it will be harder for anyone in the ANC to take action against him. And of course, after everything that’s happened, they will have more ammunition.

While for many people, getting rid of Zuma now is the only game in town, in the longer run the leadership battle is probably going to matter more. Especially if you believe that Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma will govern the way Zuma has throughout his disastrous years. In this contest, it could be that Mantashe, Ramaphosa and Mkhize have actually shifted the ground, significantly changing the ANC’s game. DM

Link

I tend to agree with this piece.


Except that Mbete will stand in as acting president in the case of Zumas removal.......and all those that voted against Zuma will be systematically removed as has just happened with the cabinet shuffle , strengthening the position for Zuma s ex wife.

if Cyril has a plan he has to initiate it now. If he has support to remove Zuma now is his time to do it.
i believe there is an undercurrent movement taking place.

BTW I gave all my staff off for tomorrow to attend the marches.
One of my staff members is married to an EFF big wig and he says there are big plans afootn for tomorrow.

Me I will be supporting them in my heart as my family and I will be in the Baths in Citrusdal enjoying the weekend away from the chaos

I hope the weather is nice (cool). Was there once the weekend of 19 September 2015 and it was too bloody hot to relax in the baths :x I remember the date well as it was the weekend we lost to Japan :x :x :x


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:01 am 
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The company I work for has also given staff permission to take off work to march. Some are catching trains to Cape Town centre. Others are going to join the chain planned for the Southern Suburbs (which I will probably do). The real challenge with this march is that if it is mainly white, Zuma and his supporters will just shout it down as a DA march. It is so important that the majority of the marchers are Black, it is the only way a proper message can be sent. I am not sure it will happen.


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:32 pm 
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Ugly statement from Fees Must Fall WC

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/ ... 06#item-28

Quote:
Fees Must Fall Western Cape rejects the anti-Zuma marches that will see lazy, incompetent and time wasting white citizens of South Africa taking to the streets to protest President Jacob Zuma’s cabinet reshuffling


Spoiler: show
Quote:
We note the 06th of April as a painful day in the history of black people marking the arrival of white colonial settlers led by Jan Van Riebeek under the pretence of using Cape Town as a refreshment station on the way to India, what a long refreshment it has been, 365 years later.

We also commemorate the death of Umkhonto weSizwe soldier, Solomon Kalushi Mahlangu, who was hanged on this day in 1979, indeed, may his blood and that of many others who die fighting for our liberation, nourish the tree that will bear the fruits of freedom.

Today also marks the birth of the Pan Afrianist Congress in 1959, whose task was to usher in to the scene African nationalist politics that premised their struggle on the land question. Today we find the white community who stole that land calling upon us to save their country. Preposterous!

We reject these anti-Zuma marches on the basis that while we problematize Jacob Zuma’s involvement in the government and its failure to radically change the lives of our people, his is a secondary contradiction, the first point of contradiction is that which can be traced back to the 06th of April 1652, the arrival and invasion of our land by white colonizers.

The problem in South Africa remains white, it is a national question that remains unanswered by the wretched of the earth. We remain an anti-white supremacist, anti-capitalist and anti-patriarchy movement and thus reject any relationship President Zuma may have with any emerging black capitalists. Ours is a struggle for socialism and not new black capitalists who seek to re-exploit our people and use blackness as a defence mechanism.

We reject as self-hating all black people who will be joining these marches, to collaborate with white bodies are against a black body is a cardinal sin in black consciousness. Why would black people march with people who reject #FeesMustFall and #EndOutSourcing, people who reject to hand back our land, people who refuse to acknowledge their racist past, people who cannot even pronounce our names, we therefore implore them to reconsider their stance and instead organize for the total overthrow of white supremacy and its puppets.

We strongly condemn the appropriation of Fallism by the controversial #ZumaMustFall movement.

While many black South Africans will be busy at work trying to make a living, there are people who will be exercising on our country’s roads calling for the removal of a black president. Who are these people and why do they have so much time on their hands? We reject the call by some of the universities in particular the University of Colonial Theatrics (UCT), which without any hint of shame whatsoever implored students to join the anti-Zuma protests.

We see UCT’s encouragement of UCT students and staff to partake in these protests as an abuse of the UCT Council Chair position by Mr Sipho Pityana who is a well-known Zuma critic. As Fees Must Fall WC we do not condone students being used as running dogs of imperialism for a disingenuous anti-Zuma movement by white funded indunas in the person of Mr Sipho Pityana.

We would like to remind our people that the time has come for us to answer the national question and to answer the call of the dead by congregating in our communities and planning a total shutdown of the country to problematize the absence of radical change in South Africa.

We support neither puppets of either faction of imperialism, i.e. Western and Eastern Imperialism. We do not want South Africa saved. We want it destroyed so that Azania can rise, therefore we implore every self-loving black to meet at Kilombo Village on Sunday the 09th of April at 14h00 for the discussion of a program of action and we encourage our people to do the same in other parts of the country.

Statement issued by FMF WC


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 Post subject: Re: SA Politics thread
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:15 pm 
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:lol:


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