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How would/will you vote in a referendum?
Keep the law as it stands. 21%  21%  [ 32 ]
Repeal the 8th. 79%  79%  [ 123 ]
Total votes : 155
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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:56 pm 
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A5D5E5 wrote:

Yes it would. Which is why it is difficult to consider "the right to life".

To be clear - I'm not advocating any position here, simply expressing a view that while I agree with the point about the right to life, you have to recognise that it is not a simple concept.



Can you walk me through your thinking here?


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:56 pm 
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Mullet 2 wrote:
CM11 wrote:
Mullet 2 wrote:
This is just your opinion though right Stats?

That the correct way for women to deal with rape is not to report them out of fear that the person won't be convicted. It's a brave opinion, I'll give you that.


The correct way? In an ideal world there wouldn't be rape but any rapists would be convicted without difficulty. But we don't live in an ideal world and every woman who is raped deals with it differently. You're forcing a woman to deal with the situation in the way that you think it should be dealt with and not necessarily in a way that is best for her. It is preferable to separate the two situations and not force everything into one should a woman conceive due to rape.



You've proof of course in the form of a peer-reviewed survey from an expert in the field that for some women not confronting the reality of being raped and seeking the help of state services is a good thing?

I'll give you a while there, there's a good lad.


I never said it was a good thing, I said women deal with it in different ways.

Look, it's the reason given by everyone involved in the steps taken to recommend 12 weeks, including Varadkar during the week. Take it up with them.


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:12 pm 
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Mullet 2 wrote:
CM11 wrote:
Btw, Mullet, why have you mentioned the morning after pill? That stops a pregnancy occurring. It has nothing to do with the debate.



:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

To refute your lie that I believe life begins at conception. Have you hit your head or something?


Eh, the morning after pill stops conception Mullet. It doesn't do anything to a fertilised egg.


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:22 pm 
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This exchange has real promise.


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:58 pm 
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SASP wrote:
Openside wrote:
SASP wrote:
Openside wrote:
Openside wrote:
Woman’s body, woman’s choice surely this is a slam dunk and will bring Ireland into the 21st century No??



So you are morally against a woman deciding how to treat her own body?


Since you've twisted what I've said there is no reason to continue.


I hadn’t intended to :(( I am curious how you can separate the morality from the woman and the foetus


Because different people have different morals.
I believe the number 1 human right is the right to life.
Each persons definition of when life begins is where the real point of difference is.


Fair enough, but how can you square away the immorality of forcing a woman to grow something inside her she doesn’t want to??


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:01 pm 
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Mullet 2 wrote:
Laurent wrote:
Mullet 2 wrote:
Where do you buy your red Dr Martens and skinny jeans?

You would not fit so why bother :P



Just cause you can shop in the kids section

I don't fit in skinny trousers
My legs are way to big.


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:21 pm 
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Mullet 2 wrote:
A5D5E5 wrote:

Yes it would. Which is why it is difficult to consider "the right to life".

To be clear - I'm not advocating any position here, simply expressing a view that while I agree with the point about the right to life, you have to recognise that it is not a simple concept.



Can you walk me through your thinking here?


If the right to life is an inalienable right, how do you reconcile that with the fact that we can keep people alive now when they would have died 20, 50, 100, 1000 years ago? Or that people will die today of things that will be trivially treated in the future?

As I said, I largely agree with the original point (and for the avoidance of doubt, I also mean in the context of abortion and the right to life of an unborn child), but to think it is some sort of simplistic answer is foolish.


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:27 pm 
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I'm still a bit lost as to the logic but thank you for engaging.


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:31 pm 
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Mullet 2 wrote:
I'm still a bit lost as to the logic but thank you for engaging.


To be honest, I've probably confused my own point by linking it to a post that was only tangentially relevant to it.

In essence - human rights are complex issues and don't (IMVHO) help resolve this other very complex issue

I'll shut up now so I don't confuse any one else!


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:48 pm 
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A5D5E5 wrote:
Mullet 2 wrote:
I'm still a bit lost as to the logic but thank you for engaging.


To be honest, I've probably confused my own point by linking it to a post that was only tangentially relevant to it.

In essence - human rights are complex issues and don't (IMVHO) help resolve this other very complex issue

I'll shut up now so I don't confuse any one else!


Fair point, I think that we as part of a Western European society have become too focused on the rights of the individual to the detriment of the society as a whole. Lot's of small things where we have ceased to be judgemental. As I said small things but ones that drive me mad. Example: going into a supermarket at 8pm and seeing a woman in her 30's wearing a nightdress and dressing gown. Now it would have been a different thing if she was hot but she was a haveral.


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:13 am 
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Think I touched on this before but it got lost in the melee. What do those who are in favour of repeal but against 12 weeks propose for the referendum? What would the wording be for the replacement that would only allow for abortions in the areas they favour?


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:17 am 
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And before Mullet replies with his usual abuse, it's a genuine question. What is the alternative that sees repeal but keeps those against 12 weeks happy?


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:22 am 
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I'm a bit sick of your questions. We don't have to propose anything. You're the one who wants to change the constitution.

When does life begin in your opinion?

Why 12 weeks what's important about that date?

Are there other disabilities aside from DS that can be identified earlier?

How will you insure that once the constitutional bar is removed the term limit won't be increased?

What happens in cases of multiple abortions from the same woman?


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:25 am 
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Quote:
What do those who are in favour of repeal


I wasn't asking anyone who wasn't interested in changing the constitution. If that includes you then don't reply.


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:29 am 
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In your own time there.

Plenty of questions.


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:31 am 
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Mullet 2 wrote:
In your own time there.

Plenty of questions.


Why do you think I'm asking the question that I did?


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:48 am 
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Not sure I'm giving you respect you don't deserve given you refuse to answer any questions I ask you but anyway:

Mullet 2 wrote:
I'm a bit sick of your questions. We don't have to propose anything. You're the one who wants to change the constitution.

When does life begin in your opinion? I would consider some time in the second trimester as a stage where I'd be conflicted over whether we were talking about a foetus or baby

Why 12 weeks what's important about that date? I believe it has been picked because that's the time limit for the abortion pill. Also, I believe that around then is when scientists believe the brain starts functioning.

Are there other disabilities aside from DS that can be identified earlier? none that I'm aware of. Some might just be identified on 12 weeks but I don't believe anything can be diagnosed with certainty at that stage

How will you insure that once the constitutional bar is removed the term limit won't be increased? hence my question.

What happens in cases of multiple abortions from the same woman?she has multiple abortions, is this a trick question?


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:28 am 
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https://twitter.com/iAM_AM/status/961889432369590278

Didn't want to post the picture directly on the forum, supposedly taken outside the Department of Education yesterday.


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:30 am 
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Disgusting.

But it was always going to get nasty.


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:31 am 
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Times, Journal and Examiner all published details of a poll yesterday claiming 75% of doctors in favour of repeal.

The poll was available for the general public to vote in and was shared by pro-choice groups.

Media are doing their level best.


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:33 am 
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CM11 wrote:
Disgusting.

But it was always going to get nasty.



Why are the images disgusting? They're just a foetus aren't they?


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:37 am 
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Mullet 2 wrote:
Times, Journal and Examiner all published details of a poll yesterday claiming 75% of doctors in favour of repeal.

The poll was available for the general public to vote in and was shared by pro-choice groups.

Media are doing their level best.


This article:

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/7 ... 66855.html

Which isn't just about repeal but the 12 weeks also and mentions nothing about the public voting.

As for your comment about the images :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:44 am 
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Both the Times and journal have removed their articles and apologised.

The Examiner, however, say it's not up to them to fact check. :lol:

But you're the same lad who takes every poll he reads as gospel so I shouldn't expect any different from you really.


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:45 am 
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As for the images.

Why do you have a problem with the images? Rolling your eyes isn't an answer when last I checked.


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:46 am 
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Mullet 2 wrote:
Both the Times and journal have removed their articles and apologised.

The Examiner, however, say it's not up to them to fact check. :lol:

But you're the same lad who takes every poll he reads as gospel so I shouldn't expect any different from you really.


I wasn't even aware of this poll until you pointed it out and if you remember, I have asked you in the past for the methodology of other polls and have given same to polls I have backed.

Nice try though.


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:46 am 
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Mullet 2 wrote:
As for the images.

Why do you have a problem with the images? Rolling your eyes isn't an answer when last I checked.


I'm not even going to engage with you on this one Mullet. If you think they're ok and not playing nasty then I've misjudged you.


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:48 am 
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What do you mean nice try?

I pointed out three newspapers printed a false Poll.

That is a fact. Everything else is just you talking your usual brand of ill-informed bollocks.


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:50 am 
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CM11 wrote:
Mullet 2 wrote:
As for the images.

Why do you have a problem with the images? Rolling your eyes isn't an answer when last I checked.


I'm not even going to engage with you on this one Mullet. If you think they're ok and not playing nasty then I've misjudged you.



Why aren't they OK? Because they show the reality of an abortion?

Much nicer for you to use words like terminate and procedure isn't it? The women goes in and the baby just disappears.

I find the images sickening frankly.


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:54 am 
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Mullet 2 wrote:
What do you mean nice try?

I pointed out three newspapers printed a false Poll.

That is a fact. Everything else is just you talking your usual brand of ill-informed bollocks.


:lol:

You brought up the poll, you twat.


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:54 am 
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And you tried to justify it.

And who is denying I brought it up?

You dozy spa


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:57 am 
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Mullet 2 wrote:
And you tried to justify it.

And who is denying I brought it up?

You dozy spa


Where did I try to justify it? You're really not doing very well this morning.

All I did was point out the factual errors of your own comment (that the poll wasn't just about repeal and that the article mentioned nothing about the public voting).


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:13 pm 
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CM11 wrote:
Mullet 2 wrote:
Times, Journal and Examiner all published details of a poll yesterday claiming 75% of doctors in favour of repeal.

The poll was available for the general public to vote in and was shared by pro-choice groups.

Media are doing their level best.


This article:

https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/7 ... 66855.html

Which isn't just about repeal but the 12 weeks also and mentions nothing about the public voting.

As for your comment about the images :roll:



There is where you tried to justify.

Not even the paper is standing over the story anymore but you still are.

Despite knowing absolutely nothing.


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:18 pm 
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I can't tell if you're just being incredibly thick or trying to dig yourself out of a hole but either way, you should really drop it before you make an even bigger fool of yourself.

All I did was reply to your post. If you really thought my reply was trying to justify anything then you're much further gone down the rabbit hole on this topic than I thought.


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:20 pm 
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What hole? You're the thick cúnt defending a poll three papers have disowned :lol:

You're a fool


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:38 pm 
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Mullet 2 wrote:
What hole? You're the thick cúnt defending a poll three papers have disowned :lol:

You're a fool


Ok it is that you're incredibly stupid.

I haven't defended anything. I have literally just pointed out the inaccuracies in your own comment. You then manafactured a situation in your mind where I was the one bringing up the poll, not you, and claimed I was taking it as gospel only for me to point out that the very reason (it seems) that the poll was dismissed was the same reason I'd have with any poll (a lack of transparent methodology).

If you're anything close to the face of fighting for a no vote, it'll pass with plenty to spare given the flailing currently on display.


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:45 pm 
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What is inaccurate in my comment? In fact, don't answer that.

You can't follow the basics, fúck off back to pretending you know about rugby


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:52 pm 
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Mullet 2 wrote:
What is inaccurate in my comment? In fact, don't answer that.

You can't follow the basics, fúck off back to pretending you know about rugby


Eh, it's in the first reply Mullet.

Did you take stupid pills this morning or something?


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:56 pm 
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You brought up 12 weeks for some reason known only to yourself :lol:

Then said it mentions nothing about public voting (the reason the other two papers removed it) :lol:

You're a tedious spa who feels the need to stand over an article everyone else is running from.

Why? Well, the first reason you never want to read anything but your own shite in a constant loop.

and the second is that you can't EVER admit your wrong. A ridiculous trait in full grown man.

Now do fúck off.


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:57 pm 
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Ask yourself this.

If even a cabbage like you knows to check the methodology of a poll why would three national news outlets fail in this basic check? Was it incompetence or bias?

That was my original point before you dragged this down to idiot town.


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:11 pm 
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Mullet 2 wrote:
You brought up 12 weeks for some reason known only to yourself :lol:

Then said it mentions nothing about public voting (the reason the other two papers removed it) :lol:

You're a tedious spa who feels the need to stand over an article everyone else is running from.

Why? Well, the first reason you never want to read anything but your own shite in a constant loop.

and the second is that you can't EVER admit your wrong. A ridiculous trait in full grown man.

Now do fúck off.


I haven't stood over the article. When are you going to get that into your thick skull?

I hadn't seen anything about a poll until you brought it up. I linked the article I could find and simply made the distinction between repeal and unrestricted up to 12 weeks along with commenting that there was no mention of the public voting. That's it. Just comments about what you yourself said. No defence, no shouting about it from the rooftops, nada. You have made up a situation in your mind where I have said or implied things that I have not. You do it constantly on this topic and it's incredibly frustrating.

But as I said above, I think I've misjudged you as a person in general so more fool me for thinking I could or should even bother replying to you on this.


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