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How would/will you vote in a referendum?
Keep the law as it stands. 21%  21%  [ 28 ]
Repeal the 8th. 79%  79%  [ 105 ]
Total votes : 133
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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:41 pm 
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Irony anyone?

http://www.thejournal.ie/cherish-all-of ... 6-Apr2018/

Speaking solely about the SF guy talking about murder.


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:13 pm 
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CM11 wrote:
Liathroidigloine wrote:
Mullet 2 wrote:
The very busy road to Damascus.

I'll trust Bunracht Na hEireann to protect the unborn over these flipping scumbags thanks.


Saying you are No to Repeal gets much the same reaction as saying you support Paddy Jackson in some quarters. The very same people who have no problems aborting a baby are completely opposed to hunting because "little furry animals get killed".


Because some people have different views about when a foetus becomes a baby.



Which is when by the way?

Or are you another who thinks these are "difficult questions" but rather than ask them you'd rather just vote yes.


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:18 pm 
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Mullet 2 wrote:
CM11 wrote:
Liathroidigloine wrote:
Mullet 2 wrote:
The very busy road to Damascus.

I'll trust Bunracht Na hEireann to protect the unborn over these flipping scumbags thanks.


Saying you are No to Repeal gets much the same reaction as saying you support Paddy Jackson in some quarters. The very same people who have no problems aborting a baby are completely opposed to hunting because "little furry animals get killed".


Because some people have different views about when a foetus becomes a baby.



Which is when by the way?

Or are you another who thinks these are "difficult questions" but rather than ask them you'd rather just vote yes.


I've given my opinion on this several times, Mullet. Knock yourself out with the search engine.


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:25 pm 
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You're all missing out on the tourism angle here. Repeal will turn Dundalk into a Mecca for the teary eyed murderer dollar.


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:31 pm 
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CM11 wrote:
rfurlong wrote:
I don't think abortion should be dealt with via a constitutional provision ... its utter madness that the 8th amendment is in there at all, and its presence has led to all sorts of fvck ups and a general lack of compassion/common sense when dealing with crisis pregnancies (FFA, rape etc)

However, I think 'elective' abortion, due to the pregnancy simply not suiting the mother, is morally repugnant and should be resisted at all costs. Those women who want to use abortion as a contraceptive, can continue to go to Liverpool for all I care. I refuse to feel guilty about not facilitating their selfishness.

The tragedy here is that the intended legislation, as currently drafted/proposed, alienates people like me that want to see the 8th repealed, but who also want abortion restricted to certain grounds.

People keep telling me that the proposed legislation/citizens assembly stance/dail committee report is the logical outcome of trying to square the circle around the availability of abortion pills, the difficulty in proving rape allegations etc. I just find it hard to believe that our politicians cannot come up with proposed legislation that gets rid of the 8th, but which doesn't usher in unrestricted access up to 12 weeks.

Spain has a rape/abortion protocol - why cant we?
Marijuana, like abortion pills, is easily accessible - does that mean we should immediately legalise it?

The 'correct' (in my view) legislation, which covered rape, incest and FFA, would have seen Repeal win by a landslide. Now we have a situation where its touch and go ........ with the sole reason being the crappy proposed legislation.


So it should be very clear to you that Yes is the only vote you can logically argue for.

If we're not dealing with this via the constitution then it really just comes down to what the government feels is the majority opinion of the nation. Surely?


A yes vote from me ushers in legislation that I fundamentally disagree with

I actually don’t believe that unrestricted abortion up to 12 weeks is “the majority opinion of the nation” ..... that’s the whole point I was making!

If the proposed legislation dealt only with rape, incest and FFA (as was the talk 12 months ago) then the yes campaign would skate home ...... because it would represent the majority opinion.


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:34 pm 
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Stumbled across this emotive account from two parents: https://philippaandneil.wordpress.com/

They both document the reality of the situation (/torture) from when they learned that their 18 week old son-to-be was not going to survive. How doctors and nurses could not help because their hands were tied by the 8th. How the whole situation impacted them, their daughter, and their family who helped them through it. How the wife had to live for 4 weeks extremely sick, in terrible pain, and at a huge health risk, until labour could be induced.

I know that many won't bother to read that story, but anyone who reads that and continues to believe that the 8th is worth saving has to be heartless.


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:40 pm 
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Jumper wrote:
Stumbled across this emotive account from two parents: https://philippaandneil.wordpress.com/

They both document the reality of the situation (/torture) from when they learned that their 18 week old son-to-be was not going to survive. How doctors and nurses could not help because their hands were tied by the 8th. How the whole situation impacted them, their daughter, and their family who helped them through it. How the wife had to live for 4 weeks extremely sick, in terrible pain, and at a huge health risk, until labour could be induced.

I know that many won't bother to read that story, but anyone who reads that and continues to believe that the 8th is worth saving has to be heartless.


There’s very few on the NO side and literally no one on the DONT KNOW side, who would deny that couple an abortion

We should be repealing the 8th and legislating for these kind of cases ...... but instead we are saying people can have an abortion for basically any reason, up to 12 weeks


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:44 pm 
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Jumper wrote:
I hope that any No voters will also be seeking to repeal the 13th ammendment which allows women to travel for abortion. If you believe that abortion is murder (its not) and you idly stand by and watch women travelling to England to get one, you are essentially complicit in what you believe to be the murder of ~4000 Irish "babies" each year.


Care to tell me when you think life begins?

I am crushingly disappointed by the debate around this. We should have widespread, safe and free access to contraception and sex ed. We should as a society be focused on preventing unwanted pregnancies first and foremost.


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:46 pm 
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rfurlong wrote:
CM11 wrote:
rfurlong wrote:
I don't think abortion should be dealt with via a constitutional provision ... its utter madness that the 8th amendment is in there at all, and its presence has led to all sorts of fvck ups and a general lack of compassion/common sense when dealing with crisis pregnancies (FFA, rape etc)

However, I think 'elective' abortion, due to the pregnancy simply not suiting the mother, is morally repugnant and should be resisted at all costs. Those women who want to use abortion as a contraceptive, can continue to go to Liverpool for all I care. I refuse to feel guilty about not facilitating their selfishness.

The tragedy here is that the intended legislation, as currently drafted/proposed, alienates people like me that want to see the 8th repealed, but who also want abortion restricted to certain grounds.

People keep telling me that the proposed legislation/citizens assembly stance/dail committee report is the logical outcome of trying to square the circle around the availability of abortion pills, the difficulty in proving rape allegations etc. I just find it hard to believe that our politicians cannot come up with proposed legislation that gets rid of the 8th, but which doesn't usher in unrestricted access up to 12 weeks.

Spain has a rape/abortion protocol - why cant we?
Marijuana, like abortion pills, is easily accessible - does that mean we should immediately legalise it?

The 'correct' (in my view) legislation, which covered rape, incest and FFA, would have seen Repeal win by a landslide. Now we have a situation where its touch and go ........ with the sole reason being the crappy proposed legislation.


So it should be very clear to you that Yes is the only vote you can logically argue for.

If we're not dealing with this via the constitution then it really just comes down to what the government feels is the majority opinion of the nation. Surely?


A yes vote from me ushers in legislation that I fundamentally disagree with

I actually don’t believe that unrestricted abortion up to 12 weeks is “the majority opinion of the nation” ..... that’s the whole point I was making!

If the proposed legislation dealt only with rape, incest and FFA (as was the talk 12 months ago) then the yes campaign would skate home ...... because it would represent the majority opinion.

I suppose we'll see soon enough.


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:51 pm 
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JoeyFantastic wrote:
Jumper wrote:
I hope that any No voters will also be seeking to repeal the 13th ammendment which allows women to travel for abortion. If you believe that abortion is murder (its not) and you idly stand by and watch women travelling to England to get one, you are essentially complicit in what you believe to be the murder of ~4000 Irish "babies" each year.


Care to tell me when you think life begins?

I am crushingly disappointed by the debate around this. We should have widespread, safe and free access to contraception and sex ed. We should as a society be focused on preventing unwanted pregnancies first and foremost.

In the north the majority of women who travel for abortions are middle aged. There's a cash/class divide on access to abortion effectively. I've worked with 3 young women over the last 6 months who came through the care system, got pregnant at a young age and all have had their kids taken off them and into fostering before they were one year old. Education is Great and all but the world is a darker place than just women not knowing or making bad choices. Some of these young women didnt have a choice at any stage.


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:54 pm 
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rfurlong wrote:
Jumper wrote:
Stumbled across this emotive account from two parents: https://philippaandneil.wordpress.com/

They both document the reality of the situation (/torture) from when they learned that their 18 week old son-to-be was not going to survive. How doctors and nurses could not help because their hands were tied by the 8th. How the whole situation impacted them, their daughter, and their family who helped them through it. How the wife had to live for 4 weeks extremely sick, in terrible pain, and at a huge health risk, until labour could be induced.

I know that many won't bother to read that story, but anyone who reads that and continues to believe that the 8th is worth saving has to be heartless.


There’s very few on the NO side and literally no one on the DONT KNOW side, who would deny that couple an abortion

We should be repealing the 8th and legislating for these kind of cases ...... but instead we are saying people can have an abortion for basically any reason, up to 12 weeks


You either have empathy for those in situations as above and vote to ensure that it can't happen anymore, or you vote to ensure that people in those situations continue to suffer. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

As it currently stands our constitution allows for Irish citizens to get an abortion for any reason provided they travel to England. Ensuring the 8th remains in place does nothing to stop abortions up to 12 weeks, it just puts a speedbump in the way; it sweeps it under the carpet so people can choose to ignore reality.


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:56 pm 
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etherman wrote:
JoeyFantastic wrote:
Jumper wrote:
I hope that any No voters will also be seeking to repeal the 13th ammendment which allows women to travel for abortion. If you believe that abortion is murder (its not) and you idly stand by and watch women travelling to England to get one, you are essentially complicit in what you believe to be the murder of ~4000 Irish "babies" each year.


Care to tell me when you think life begins?

I am crushingly disappointed by the debate around this. We should have widespread, safe and free access to contraception and sex ed. We should as a society be focused on preventing unwanted pregnancies first and foremost.

In the north the majority of women who travel for abortions are middle aged. There's a cash/class divide on access to abortion effectively. I've worked with 3 young women over the last 6 months who came through the care system, got pregnant at a young age and all have had their kids taken off them and into fostering before they were one year old. Education is Great and all but the world is a darker place than just women not knowing or making bad choices. Some of these young women didnt have a choice at any stage.


Then we need a broader debate on why our society is so damaged.


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 8:59 pm 
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rfurlong wrote:
Jumper wrote:
Stumbled across this emotive account from two parents: https://philippaandneil.wordpress.com/

They both document the reality of the situation (/torture) from when they learned that their 18 week old son-to-be was not going to survive. How doctors and nurses could not help because their hands were tied by the 8th. How the whole situation impacted them, their daughter, and their family who helped them through it. How the wife had to live for 4 weeks extremely sick, in terrible pain, and at a huge health risk, until labour could be induced.

I know that many won't bother to read that story, but anyone who reads that and continues to believe that the 8th is worth saving has to be heartless.


There’s very few on the NO side and literally no one on the DONT KNOW side, who would deny that couple an abortion

We should be repealing the 8th and legislating for these kind of cases ...... but instead we are saying people can have an abortion for basically any reason, up to 12 weeks


And, eh, what’s the problem with that


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:00 pm 
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CM11 wrote:
Mullet 2 wrote:
CM11 wrote:
Liathroidigloine wrote:
Mullet 2 wrote:
The very busy road to Damascus.

I'll trust Bunracht Na hEireann to protect the unborn over these flipping scumbags thanks.


Saying you are No to Repeal gets much the same reaction as saying you support Paddy Jackson in some quarters. The very same people who have no problems aborting a baby are completely opposed to hunting because "little furry animals get killed".


Because some people have different views about when a foetus becomes a baby.



Which is when by the way?

Or are you another who thinks these are "difficult questions" but rather than ask them you'd rather just vote yes.


I've given my opinion on this several times, Mullet. Knock yourself out with the search engine.


You've never said when you think life begins.

You said viability was a compromise.

So when is it a baby? When is it unacceptable to kill it. Fairly straightforward question.


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:02 pm 
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What a load of nonsense Mullet - a foetus is not a baby. You’re getting close to every sperm is sacred territory here


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:03 pm 
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Mullet 2 wrote:

You've never said when you think life begins.

You said viability was a compromise.

So when is it a baby? When is it unacceptable to kill it. Fairly straightforward question.


Also, what does viability even mean? At what point does a condition render someone unviable?


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:07 pm 
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JoeyFantastic wrote:
etherman wrote:
JoeyFantastic wrote:
Jumper wrote:
I hope that any No voters will also be seeking to repeal the 13th ammendment which allows women to travel for abortion. If you believe that abortion is murder (its not) and you idly stand by and watch women travelling to England to get one, you are essentially complicit in what you believe to be the murder of ~4000 Irish "babies" each year.


Care to tell me when you think life begins?

I am crushingly disappointed by the debate around this. We should have widespread, safe and free access to contraception and sex ed. We should as a society be focused on preventing unwanted pregnancies first and foremost.

In the north the majority of women who travel for abortions are middle aged. There's a cash/class divide on access to abortion effectively. I've worked with 3 young women over the last 6 months who came through the care system, got pregnant at a young age and all have had their kids taken off them and into fostering before they were one year old. Education is Great and all but the world is a darker place than just women not knowing or making bad choices. Some of these young women didnt have a choice at any stage.


Then we need a broader debate on why our society is so damaged.

Because compassion doesn't generate revenue and labelling someone as scum absolves all responsibility.


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:07 pm 
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Duff Paddy wrote:
What a load of nonsense Mullet - a foetus is not a baby. You’re getting close to every sperm is sacred territory here


If a foetus counts as a "baby", what about a zygote?


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:20 pm 
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Duff Paddy wrote:
What a load of nonsense Mullet - a foetus is not a baby. You’re getting close to every sperm is sacred territory here


And you're sounding like a raving liberal.

So if you call it a different name you can pretend it's not worthy of living?


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:21 pm 
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JoeyFantastic wrote:
Jumper wrote:
I hope that any No voters will also be seeking to repeal the 13th ammendment which allows women to travel for abortion. If you believe that abortion is murder (its not) and you idly stand by and watch women travelling to England to get one, you are essentially complicit in what you believe to be the murder of ~4000 Irish "babies" each year.


Care to tell me when you think life begins?

I am crushingly disappointed by the debate around this. We should have widespread, safe and free access to contraception and sex ed. We should as a society be focused on preventing unwanted pregnancies first and foremost.


When do you think life begins?

Even with good access to contraception and sex ed we're still going to have thousands of abortions every year. Women will opt for abortions and these women will often be well educated and well informed - use contraception etc. It's a bit of a myth that it's just ill-educated and disadvantaged women getting abortions. Married middle-class women get them too with the support of their husbands for perfectly sane and rational reasons, which ought to be no one else's business but theirs.


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:21 pm 
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rfurlong wrote:
CM11 wrote:
rfurlong wrote:
I don't think abortion should be dealt with via a constitutional provision ... its utter madness that the 8th amendment is in there at all, and its presence has led to all sorts of fvck ups and a general lack of compassion/common sense when dealing with crisis pregnancies (FFA, rape etc)

However, I think 'elective' abortion, due to the pregnancy simply not suiting the mother, is morally repugnant and should be resisted at all costs. Those women who want to use abortion as a contraceptive, can continue to go to Liverpool for all I care. I refuse to feel guilty about not facilitating their selfishness.

The tragedy here is that the intended legislation, as currently drafted/proposed, alienates people like me that want to see the 8th repealed, but who also want abortion restricted to certain grounds.

People keep telling me that the proposed legislation/citizens assembly stance/dail committee report is the logical outcome of trying to square the circle around the availability of abortion pills, the difficulty in proving rape allegations etc. I just find it hard to believe that our politicians cannot come up with proposed legislation that gets rid of the 8th, but which doesn't usher in unrestricted access up to 12 weeks.

Spain has a rape/abortion protocol - why cant we?
Marijuana, like abortion pills, is easily accessible - does that mean we should immediately legalise it?

The 'correct' (in my view) legislation, which covered rape, incest and FFA, would have seen Repeal win by a landslide. Now we have a situation where its touch and go ........ with the sole reason being the crappy proposed legislation.


So it should be very clear to you that Yes is the only vote you can logically argue for.

If we're not dealing with this via the constitution then it really just comes down to what the government feels is the majority opinion of the nation. Surely?


A yes vote from me ushers in legislation that I fundamentally disagree with

I actually don’t believe that unrestricted abortion up to 12 weeks is “the majority opinion of the nation” ..... that’s the whole point I was making!

If the proposed legislation dealt only with rape, incest and FFA (as was the talk 12 months ago) then the yes campaign would skate home ...... because it would represent the majority opinion.


Quote:
I don't think abortion should be dealt with via a constitutional provision ... its utter madness that the 8th amendment is in there at all, and its presence has led to all sorts of fvck ups and a general lack of compassion/common sense when dealing with crisis pregnancies (FFA, rape etc)


How can you utter this paragraph and then argue for a No vote?


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:23 pm 
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Jumper wrote:
Duff Paddy wrote:
What a load of nonsense Mullet - a foetus is not a baby. You’re getting close to every sperm is sacred territory here


If a foetus counts as a "baby", what about a zygote?

Every Sperm Is Sacred
https://youtu.be/fUspLVStPbk


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:25 pm 
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Jumper wrote:
Duff Paddy wrote:
What a load of nonsense Mullet - a foetus is not a baby. You’re getting close to every sperm is sacred territory here


If a foetus counts as a "baby", what about a zygote?

A smaller baby


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:26 pm 
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10 points for your original post.

And those guys are funny so you're also funny.


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:28 pm 
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Mullet 2 wrote:
Duff Paddy wrote:
What a load of nonsense Mullet - a foetus is not a baby. You’re getting close to every sperm is sacred territory here


And you're sounding like a raving liberal.

So if you call it a different name you can pretend it's not worthy of living?


It has a different name because it is not the same thing. Your argument about worthiness of living is bizarre, no such judgement is being made by anyone. The woman whose body it is has the right to determine whether she wants to carry the foetus, its not my decision no more than it is yours.


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:29 pm 
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HighKingLeinster wrote:
Jumper wrote:
Duff Paddy wrote:
What a load of nonsense Mullet - a foetus is not a baby. You’re getting close to every sperm is sacred territory here


If a foetus counts as a "baby", what about a zygote?

A smaller baby


Careful now they’ll be calling sperm a half a baby next


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:29 pm 
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Conservative Eddie wrote:
JoeyFantastic wrote:
Jumper wrote:
I hope that any No voters will also be seeking to repeal the 13th ammendment which allows women to travel for abortion. If you believe that abortion is murder (its not) and you idly stand by and watch women travelling to England to get one, you are essentially complicit in what you believe to be the murder of ~4000 Irish "babies" each year.


Care to tell me when you think life begins?

I am crushingly disappointed by the debate around this. We should have widespread, safe and free access to contraception and sex ed. We should as a society be focused on preventing unwanted pregnancies first and foremost.


When do you think life begins?

Even with good access to contraception and sex ed we're still going to have thousands of abortions every year. Women will opt for abortions and these women will often be well educated and well informed - use contraception etc. It's a bit of a myth that it's just ill-educated and disadvantaged women getting abortions. Married middle-class women get them too with the support of their husbands for perfectly sane and rational reasons, which ought to be no one else's business but theirs.


Honestly I'm not sure.


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:30 pm 
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Bleh. Conversation moved on a bit.


Last edited by Uncle Fester on Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:31 pm 
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Duff Paddy wrote:
Mullet 2 wrote:
Duff Paddy wrote:
What a load of nonsense Mullet - a foetus is not a baby. You’re getting close to every sperm is sacred territory here


And you're sounding like a raving liberal.

So if you call it a different name you can pretend it's not worthy of living?


It has a different name because it is not the same thing. Your argument about worthiness of living is bizarre, no such judgement is being made by anyone. The woman whose body it is has the right to determine whether she wants to carry the foetus, its not my decision no more than it is yours.



Except it is and we're having a referendum on it.

Go shout my body my choice with some blue haired birds who care.


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:32 pm 
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JoeyFantastic wrote:
Jumper wrote:
I hope that any No voters will also be seeking to repeal the 13th ammendment which allows women to travel for abortion. If you believe that abortion is murder (its not) and you idly stand by and watch women travelling to England to get one, you are essentially complicit in what you believe to be the murder of ~4000 Irish "babies" each year.


Care to tell me when you think life begins?

I am crushingly disappointed by the debate around this. We should have widespread, safe and free access to contraception and sex ed. We should as a society be focused on preventing unwanted pregnancies first and foremost.


I completely agree with you on the sex ed etc thing. That doesn't mean it has to be one or the other. The debate (and I'm not sure why it should even be a debate) you talk about should be happening separate to the referendum debate, not as part of it.


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:33 pm 
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Mullet 2 wrote:
Duff Paddy wrote:
Mullet 2 wrote:
Duff Paddy wrote:
What a load of nonsense Mullet - a foetus is not a baby. You’re getting close to every sperm is sacred territory here


And you're sounding like a raving liberal.

So if you call it a different name you can pretend it's not worthy of living?


It has a different name because it is not the same thing. Your argument about worthiness of living is bizarre, no such judgement is being made by anyone. The woman whose body it is has the right to determine whether she wants to carry the foetus, its not my decision no more than it is yours.



Except it is and we're having a referendum on it.

Go shout my body my choice with some blue haired birds who care.


Not really though because they’ll have the abortion either way


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:33 pm 
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CM11 wrote:
JoeyFantastic wrote:
Jumper wrote:
I hope that any No voters will also be seeking to repeal the 13th ammendment which allows women to travel for abortion. If you believe that abortion is murder (its not) and you idly stand by and watch women travelling to England to get one, you are essentially complicit in what you believe to be the murder of ~4000 Irish "babies" each year.


Care to tell me when you think life begins?

I am crushingly disappointed by the debate around this. We should have widespread, safe and free access to contraception and sex ed. We should as a society be focused on preventing unwanted pregnancies first and foremost.


I completely agree with you on the sex ed etc thing. That doesn't mean it has to be one or the other. The debate (and I'm not sure why it should even be a debate) you talk about should be happening separate to the referendum debate, not as part of it.


In your opinion, for me they are linked.

Care to say when life begins?


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:33 pm 
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Duff Paddy wrote:
HighKingLeinster wrote:
Jumper wrote:
Duff Paddy wrote:
What a load of nonsense Mullet - a foetus is not a baby. You’re getting close to every sperm is sacred territory here


If a foetus counts as a "baby", what about a zygote?

A smaller baby


Careful now they’ll be calling sperm a half a baby next

Nah everybody knows they are knuckle children


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:35 pm 
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JoeyFantastic wrote:
CM11 wrote:
JoeyFantastic wrote:
Jumper wrote:
I hope that any No voters will also be seeking to repeal the 13th ammendment which allows women to travel for abortion. If you believe that abortion is murder (its not) and you idly stand by and watch women travelling to England to get one, you are essentially complicit in what you believe to be the murder of ~4000 Irish "babies" each year.


Care to tell me when you think life begins?

I am crushingly disappointed by the debate around this. We should have widespread, safe and free access to contraception and sex ed. We should as a society be focused on preventing unwanted pregnancies first and foremost.


I completely agree with you on the sex ed etc thing. That doesn't mean it has to be one or the other. The debate (and I'm not sure why it should even be a debate) you talk about should be happening separate to the referendum debate, not as part of it.


In your opinion, for me they are linked.

Care to say when life begins?


Save the philosophy debates for the arts block, unanswerable questions like that don’t contribute to moving this forward


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:39 pm 
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So what?

Know any laws that aren't broken? :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:42 pm 
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If Mullet is arguing from a position of personal opinion, and it's his to have, then he's entitled to his position. I'm just never sure if he just takes a stance for the sake of it and then essentially plays devil's advocate.

Personally, I have a position on when a foetus is definitely a foetus and a position on bringing unwanted children into a world already overpopulated with the quality of life of those children uncertain. The second part there is where I come from when the first part no longer applies and I've said before that IMO it's unusual to see abortion as contraception past the stage where I could argue a foetus has become a baby.

I certainly have qualms about late stage abortions when we're talking purely elective abortion but again, I don't see many women taking that option lightly and there would usually be some other relevant circumstances.

To those who have different views and just see it as murder. Fair enough. I don't.


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:44 pm 
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JoeyFantastic wrote:
CM11 wrote:
JoeyFantastic wrote:
Jumper wrote:
I hope that any No voters will also be seeking to repeal the 13th ammendment which allows women to travel for abortion. If you believe that abortion is murder (its not) and you idly stand by and watch women travelling to England to get one, you are essentially complicit in what you believe to be the murder of ~4000 Irish "babies" each year.


Care to tell me when you think life begins?

I am crushingly disappointed by the debate around this. We should have widespread, safe and free access to contraception and sex ed. We should as a society be focused on preventing unwanted pregnancies first and foremost.


I completely agree with you on the sex ed etc thing. That doesn't mean it has to be one or the other. The debate (and I'm not sure why it should even be a debate) you talk about should be happening separate to the referendum debate, not as part of it.


In your opinion, for me they are linked.

Care to say when life begins?


They are linked to the extent that if the education isn't good enough then you get a higher proportion of people using abortion as contraception but they're not linked from the perspective of deciding whether abortion is acceptable or not. Which is essentially what the referendum debate is about, even though that's not exactly what it's about either.


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:46 pm 
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Over populated world?

How many kids have you?


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:47 pm 
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I once asked a retired gyenacologist when he thought life began. "Not til one has been accepted to a decent school."


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 Post subject: Re: Repealing the 8th
PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:48 pm 
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Duff Paddy wrote:
Save the philosophy debates for the arts block, unanswerable questions like that don’t contribute to moving this forward


For yourself maybe, for me it's the fundamental question.


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