Planet Rugby Forum

danthefan wrote:

Duff Paddy wrote:I’m fairly certain that No will win. If it’s this close in the polls at this stage then the hidden No voters will probably swing it.

It's heading that way alright by the looks of things.

camroc1 wrote:

Duff Paddy wrote:

CM11 wrote:

Duff Paddy wrote:

CM11 wrote:Interesting to read an argument from a Catholic bishop that life doesn't begin at conception. Will find the link later.

What the fudge would a bishop know about it

My point was that he gave a religious argument that it doesn't.

Does anyone seriously still listen to what these guys say

Irish Roman Catholics, I'd have thought.

Mullet 2 wrote:

james garner wrote:The directors are listed as Sean & Tom Ascough

https://www.solocheck.ie/Irish-Company/ ... tee-424940

anyone interested can check out more about these guys here

http://ionawatch.tumblr.com/post/736465 ... f-the-iona

You know they're good when people start playing them rather than the ball

Gavin Duffy wrote:40% of the population still go to mass every week or summit.

Duff Paddy wrote:

Gavin Duffy wrote:40% of the population still go to mass every week or summit.

Nah

Gavin Duffy wrote:40% of the population still go to mass every week or summit.

Bullettyme wrote:And if it's a No will the government fall? I hope whatever the outcome we don't see the nasty backbiting we saw over in the UK following Brexit, idiots talking about a re-referendum.

EDIT: I'd say it would be best to stop, reflect, give it a few more years and get the campaign up again.

CM11 wrote:

Bullettyme wrote:And if it's a No will the government fall? I hope whatever the outcome we don't see the nasty backbiting we saw over in the UK following Brexit, idiots talking about a re-referendum.

EDIT: I'd say it would be best to stop, reflect, give it a few more years and get the campaign up again.

Not really comparable to Brexit though.

And of course there'll be another one if it fails. Just not instantly.

The number who've said they'd vote no has been pretty consistent across all polls. I'd be surprised at this stage if no won. Yes needs less than a third of undecided. No needs around 70/75% of them.

Diego wrote:I still think it's weird how much airtime they get given how few people actually belong to it.

etherman wrote:I fear No will knick it.

Uncle Fester wrote:Didn't really happen in marriage equality referendum but in divorce referendum, all the undecideds eventually translated into no votes.

Leinsterman wrote:So two Ascoughs are listed as being part of the Iona Institute. Quite an uncommon name. Wonder if there's a link to Katie Ascough.

Anyway, the Iona Institute is a vile piece of work. "Traditional values" espoused by them - so long as you're the right colour and hetro.

Larry Murphy wrote:It's amazing, this referendum really is driving some people over the edge

Flametop wrote:Do we really believe that the tide has turned back to the no vote?

CM11 wrote:

Flametop wrote:Do we really believe that the tide has turned back to the no vote?

I doubt it has turned. It all comes down to how the undecided, which makes up nearly a quarter of the poll, are/were going to vote. It's been roughly 60/40 excluding undecided, from the start, I think.

Unfortunately I think we haven't seen the most extreme campaigning from both sides yet. Next week will be unbearable. Do there have to stop campaigning before the vote or is that just political parties? What about outside polling stations?

Liathroidigloine wrote:

CM11 wrote:

Flametop wrote:Do we really believe that the tide has turned back to the no vote?

I doubt it has turned. It all comes down to how the undecided, which makes up nearly a quarter of the poll, are/were going to vote. It's been roughly 60/40 excluding undecided, from the start, I think.

Unfortunately I think we haven't seen the most extreme campaigning from both sides yet. Next week will be unbearable. Do there have to stop campaigning before the vote or is that just political parties? What about outside polling stations?

Neither side can canvass within a certain distance (think it's 50m) of a polling station. That didn't prevent it happening in the last referendum.

sewa wrote:

Mullet 2 wrote:

james garner wrote:The directors are listed as Sean & Tom Ascough

https://www.solocheck.ie/Irish-Company/ ... tee-424940

anyone interested can check out more about these guys here

http://ionawatch.tumblr.com/post/736465 ... f-the-iona

You know they're good when people start playing them rather than the ball

You honestly think they are good? First person I have ever heard say anything positive about them

CM11 wrote:

Flametop wrote:Do we really believe that the tide has turned back to the no vote?

I doubt it has turned. It all comes down to how the undecided, which makes up nearly a quarter of the poll, are/were going to vote. It's been roughly 60/40 excluding undecided, from the start, I think.

Unfortunately I think we haven't seen the most extreme campaigning from both sides yet. Next week will be unbearable. Do there have to stop campaigning before the vote or is that just political parties? What about outside polling stations?

Mullet 2 wrote:Saw a tweet saying no referendum has passed with between 54-59 percent in the polls

CM11 wrote:Ah f**k, Geldof has gotten involved.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/abo ... 13771.html

That's that then.

Mullet 2 wrote:

sewa wrote:

Mullet 2 wrote:

james garner wrote:The directors are listed as Sean & Tom Ascough

https://www.solocheck.ie/Irish-Company/ ... tee-424940

anyone interested can check out more about these guys here

http://ionawatch.tumblr.com/post/736465 ... f-the-iona

You know they're good when people start playing them rather than the ball

You honestly think they are good? First person I have ever heard say anything positive about them

Your opinions would not lead me to believe you have a very diverse group of friends.

Leinsterman wrote:You're a similar background to myself Area and I'd say all my mates have the same opinion.
Funnily enough, it wasn't that long ago when engineering was an Opus Dei cesspit.

My colleague is there, alone in the operating theatre. All is clean. Organised. A sanitised façade, once again. She raises her head, smiles sadly and asks : ‘Do you want to see her?’ I answer with a very weak ‘yes’ and move forward . . .”

This quote comes from a poignant testimonial on conservative website objectiondelaconscience.org. It’s by a nurse who had just accompanied a couple through the termination of their Down Syndrome child and relates a daily occurrence in French hospitals.

There is no anger, no judgment in her tone, just immense sadness at the couple’s loss, and at the baby’s death. If they’d followed their hearts, they said, they’d have kept her, but they must be reasonable . . . In 2014, 1,959 unborn babies were diagnosed with Down Syndrome, and 1552 of those were aborted by surgical abortion, which can legally be performed right up to birth.

Abortions happen relentlessly, on average 580 times a day, every day of the year, every year. In 2016, there were 211,900 abortions, for 785,000 births. Bluntly put, one in five babies are aborted. The National Institute for Demographic Studies reports that 33 per cent of women in France have recourse to abortion once in their lifetime, 9.5 per cent twice in their lifetime, and 4.1 per cent have 3 abortions. The 18-25 year olds are the most affected (90,000 in 2012). Abortion is a sad, repetitive and violent reality. It is so first of all for French women.

Psychological damage
In 2012, Prof Israël Nisand, who is now president of France’s National College of Gynaecologists and Obstetricians, and a proponent of access to abortion, unambiguously stated that abortion caused psychological damage to women who had recourse to it. The matter became a national scandal, because the official truth is that abortion does not bear long-lasting consequences. The French government website on abortion (ivg.gouv.fr) states that the only pain is physical, during and shortly after the procedure. And yet, a simple Google or YouTube search will show hundreds of messages left by women mentally distressed after their abortions. Beyond the anecdotal evidence, the majority of serious medical studies show significant mental health issues after an abortion. One study (Coleman, 2011), sampled 877,181 women, of whom 163,831 had an abortion. The author concluded that women having had abortions had an 81 per cent increased risk of mental health troubles.

No public discourse or debate is possible in France about abortion. Since 1993, it is a criminal offence to try to dissuade a woman from having an abortion. In February 2017, the offence was extended to providing information, including online, which could have the same effect of convincing a woman to keep her baby. This applies to teachers, healthcare workers, media, to everyone. For the French government, providing online information on abortion, but also on pregnancy, on carrying a baby to term, on accessing social and financial services to support expectant mothers and after the birth, is considered misleading to women.

Conscientious objection
The Irish Government is proposing abortion on demand at least up to 12 weeks, and that is exactly what we have in France. It will not take long before the sad French reality will come to these shores. One in three women will have an abortion in their lifetime. Teenage girls and young women will be most affected. Mothers will take their daughters, sometimes forcing them, to have abortions. Secretaries in GP practices will see women coming in at the early stages of pregnancy, and leaving the premises having taken pills for a medically induced abortion. Doctors, nurses, midwives and pharmacists and other hospital workers will struggle to keep their right to conscientious objection, as it is the case in France.

It is harder and harder to find doctors willing to perform surgical abortions at a later stage in the pregnancy. The enthusiasm of the early days has worn off
The debate is not about maternal healthcare in Ireland, do not be fooled. It is an ideological question: do you really want abortion on demand at least up to 12 weeks? Do you really want to give carte blanche to your Government for abortions up to 6 months’ gestation? Legalising abortion will inevitably and inexorably create a general malaise in Irish society, at every level, in every family, between neighbours, in medical facilities, everywhere.

In France, since 2016, midwives are entitled to prescribe abortive pills to women up to five weeks’ gestation. Why this move? Because it is harder and harder to find doctors willing to perform surgical abortions at a later stage in the pregnancy. The enthusiasm of the early days has worn off, the abortion militants have retired, and the younger generations of doctors would rather save lives than end them. But the fabric of French society is altered forever. We are not allowed to talk about abortion, we are told lies about abortion, and one in five pregnancies is terminated. Unlike French people, you have a voice. On May 25th, think about the harsh reality of abortion in France when you exercise your right to vote.

Dr Bénédicte Sage-Fuller lectures at the School of Law in University College Cork