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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:09 pm 
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My Story
I was born in South Africa in 1974 in the northern cape. I am an 8th generation South African with no known relatives in Europe.
My mom and dad, were both teachers and although not Anti-Apartheid Activists, did not tolerate any racial discrimination in our house. The k..r and h..t word were strictly forbidden in our house.

Around 1980, my dad wanted to fulfil his dream and become a farmer. He convinced his dad to partner with him and both sold their possessions and got a loan from Landbank to finance the deal.

My dad's farm workers were told to call my dad mister and my mom missus. They were given housing and running water on the farm. Part of their package included food rations. The housing and rations were not subtracted from their pay.

The next couple of year were hard for my family. We had no electricity and it were hard for my parents financially. Repaying the loan to Landbank from farming proved to be difficult. My parents was finally forced after 4 years, to go back to teaching trying to pay of the farm and farming on weekends. That meant a 400km round trip every second weekend (Fuel was still cheap back then).

My dad could not find a permanent position in the "white" School, and applied and got accepted at the "coloured". Him and a number of other white teachers were teaching at the coloured school. My mom eventually also started teaching in the "coloured" school.
Things started changing in around 1990. Segregation laws were being scrapped, ANC and other organisations were un banned, people of colour started going to the "white" schools, Namibia got independence and Nelson Mandela was freed. White people were scared and exited in equal measure. Finally, the country was going to be the land of opportunity for everyone in it.

I got a loan from Standard bank to go to Cape Town University of Technology (Cape Technikon back then). I had to pay back the loan as soon as I start working. I got a job doing in service training at Eskom. Most of the new intakes were people of colour (Black and coloured). For that year, none of my friends were white. Out of my comfort zone, but enjoying it thoroughly, I spent the time getting to know their cultures, hang out places, clubs etc. I also got to know some of the hurt and humiliation caused by Apartheid. We could openly debate and talk about issues happening in the country. I remember vividly debating with a black friend of mine about the implementation of Affirmative action. I was fiercely opposed to it as I saw it as a new way of discrimination. He argued that upliftment had to be done and the sunset clause would prevent discrimination against the new generation. Although I agree with upliftment, I still believe that AA is the wrong way to uplift people.

Warnings signs around the new discrimination were starting to show ever so slightly. Both my mom and dad, and all other white teachers were being forced out of the "coloured" school one by one. In line with Eskom AA policies, I did not get a permanent position at Eskom. I took it on the chin and for the next couple of years, I partnered with my housemate and started writing software applications for small businesses. It was tough to survive. We could not charge an hourly rate as the customers could not pay that much. We had to settle for small implementation fees. Never the less I managed to pay of my Student loan and survive at the same time.

We got a bit of a break when we landed a contract with a company getting a job for Transnet around 1997. I was now starting to see firsthand the issues with AA. There were around 10 people of colour (project manager, auditors, managers etc.) and 2 software developers, me and my partner. We basically had to work night and day to keep the project afloat and most of the bottlenecks occurred around waiting for implementation and function changes on the software. 90% of the job was dependent on IT, but only 20% of the team was related to IT. At least the job gave me a financial boost and I was able to buy a second hand car.


The opportunities improved after that along with my financial prospects. My business partner and myself continued to work together on and off after that. I managed to get married have kids, buy a small two bed roomed house and continued to build my business.
Meanwhile Black economic empower BEE came into effect. Although it did not affect me personally at that stage, the fact that people's race is becoming more and more relevant to doing business in South Africa disturbed me greatly. The fact that black people of other countries were now preferred to whites from South Africa was wrong on so many levels. In one project I worked on, the black project manager counting towards the BEE/AA levels were neither South African not under privileged. (He was a chartered accountant from Nigeria)

Despite all this, I was still proudly South African, optimistic and full of hope for this country and the future. I disagreed with AA/BEE but I still felt that there were more right than wrong in the country.

In the mid 2000s a coloured person was denied promotion in Eskom due to being "too white". This raised a massive alarm bell in my head. It was the first time that discrimination was not only against whites, but also against other races. Yet I was still hopeful that things will improve.

In 2010, I was immensely proud of South Africa hosting a successful Soccer World Cup. However, if I was truthful with myself, the wheels were starting to come of around 2007. Race classification/discrimination dressed up as transformation was popping up all over the show. South Africa's acceptance (quiet diplomacy) on the Zimbabwe issue among others should have been a warning.

After 2011, things went south quickly. Blatant discrimination not only against white people, but against all races except "African" black is now common place. It is out in the open. Corruption headlines newspapers every day. The perpetrators are not even trying to cover it up anymore. Independent authorities build to keep government in check are steamrolled over and made into government puppets.
Meanwhile, my business is still doing well. I employ 10 highly skilled people now, pay my taxes and live in a nice suburb with children going to a nice school. However, I see no future for myself or my children in this country. I lost all my hopes and dreams for this country.

I saw a documentary a couple of years ago about Jew in South Africa, pleading to his family back in Germany to come to South Africa before the second world war. His brother family refused, with his brother saying; nothing will happen to him, he served his country in the first world war. His family died in the Holocaust.

This is where we are at the moment. I am chronically depressed with what's going on in my country.
Please point out me and my children's crime so that we can take our deserved punishment.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:11 pm 
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I realise that this is not a Rugby Post, so mods feel free to delete.

I was feeling depressed today and just wanted to post my feelings somewhere.

So here it is.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:13 pm 
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There is no need for anyone to delete it.

Good luck.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:26 pm 
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Sorry to hear that Alfy. There have been an increasing number of saffas on PR lately saying the same thing. Any thoughts on where you want to go and what you'd like to do?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:31 pm 
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Any chance you and your business partner can find a Black partner and try to compete directly for BEE business? You've worked hard and I'd hate to see it all go to waste.

Good luck. :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:32 pm 
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Can you trace back your ancestry to Europe? do a lot of Afrikaaners do this? is it possible to acquire some (Dutch, British, French) European nationality through this process?

I feel very sorry for the European-South Africans. It is not easy to be an oppressed minority anywhere in the world, but being cut-off from the country of origin makes it even tougher. You've been settled in Africa for so long...

What continues to amaze me is how the leaders of your community failed to secure some sort of political status for your community in the fall-out of the previous regime.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:38 pm 
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saffer13 wrote:
Sorry to hear that Alfy. There have been an increasing number of saffas on PR lately saying the same thing. Any thoughts on where you want to go and what you'd like to do?


It's difficult for me.

I'm over 40 now, it took me 20 years to build up a business from nothing. My oldest kid just started High School.
Its difficult and scary to think of uprooting my family now.

I have done business in the USA before (The venture was not successful though) .So I have a few contacts there.
I also feel that there is the biggest potential market for Software development (together with the fiercest competition).
I know however, that it's not easy emigrating to the US.

I'm, basically just angry with myself for being the optimist back when everyone was packing their bags. I guess I'm the fool now.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:42 pm 
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Xupi wrote:
Can you trace back your ancestry to Europe? do a lot of Afrikaaners do this? is it possible to acquire some (Dutch, British, French) European nationality through this process?

I feel very sorry for the European-South Africans. It is not easy to be an oppressed minority anywhere in the world, but being cut-off from the country of origin makes it even tougher. You've been settled in Africa for so long...

What continues to amaze me is how the leaders of your community failed to secure some sort of political status for your community in the fall-out of the previous regime.


I'm from East Prussian descent. It obviously does not exist anymore, and I'm actually not sure under which country it falls nowadays.
It used to be German, but I think it's more Russian now.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:42 pm 
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Alfy wrote:
I'm over 40 now, it took me 20 years to build up a business from nothing. My oldest kid just started High School.
Its difficult and scary to think of uprooting my family now.

If I were in your shoes: use globalization to your advantage, re-connect with your European roots without leaving SA and maybe try to have the kids study/live at least at some point, abroad so that it is less difficult for them to leave if it becomes impossible for your community to survive there.


Last edited by Xupi on Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:43 pm 
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tl;dr


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:43 pm 
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I was at a party not long ago, and spoke to an immigration lawyer there. She says that there has been a marked upturn of Saffas inquiring about coming to the States, but she said that she would only be able to help about 5% of them - the rest didn't have the qualifications.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:44 pm 
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Alfy wrote:
saffer13 wrote:
Sorry to hear that Alfy. There have been an increasing number of saffas on PR lately saying the same thing. Any thoughts on where you want to go and what you'd like to do?


It's difficult for me.

I'm over 40 now, it took me 20 years to build up a business from nothing. My oldest kid just started High School.
Its difficult and scary to think of uprooting my family now.

I have done business in the USA before (The venture was not successful though) .So I have a few contacts there.
I also feel that there is the biggest potential market for Software development (together with the fiercest competition).
I know however, that it's not easy emigrating to the US.

I'm, basically just angry with myself for being the optimist back when everyone was packing their bags. I guess I'm the fool now.


are you in a specific development niche ?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:48 pm 
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Alfy wrote:
saffer13 wrote:
Sorry to hear that Alfy. There have been an increasing number of saffas on PR lately saying the same thing. Any thoughts on where you want to go and what you'd like to do?


It's difficult for me.

I'm over 40 now, it took me 20 years to build up a business from nothing. My oldest kid just started High School.
Its difficult and scary to think of uprooting my family now.


I have done business in the USA before (The venture was not successful though) .So I have a few contacts there.
I also feel that there is the biggest potential market for Software development (together with the fiercest competition).
I know however, that it's not easy emigrating to the US.

I'm, basically just angry with myself for being the optimist back when everyone was packing their bags. I guess I'm the fool now.


Kids are tough boet, they adapt easier than us so don't let that concern you too much, although it's understandable that it's a major worry.
Regarding the last sentence, nothing wrong and certainly not foolish, to have given it the best go you could have. Take pride in the fight you put up and continue to put up. Things will get better, even if they appear to get worse first.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:49 pm 
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Try Britain.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:54 pm 
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Sandstorm wrote:
Any chance you and your business partner can find a Black partner and try to compete directly for BEE business? You've worked hard and I'd hate to see it all go to waste.

Good luck. :thumbup:



Well, My business is doing well, so no complaints there. In fact I really have no complaints in terms of my quality of live.

I just don't think that White people have a future in South Africa.

Are we going to wait until the ANC actually force white people out of the country using Zimbabwe, Angola, Mozambique style?
Most black people (Looking at ANC/EFF voting patterns as my source) do not want White people in SA and don't care if the country goes down burning as long as AA and BEE are enforced.

I used to believe that things will go differently in SA, that will really be a rainbow nation.
But racial division and hatred widening and clear for all to see. The ANC of today is becoming a Police state and I starting to wonder what will happen if they should loose the election.

My mind is telling me that it will go similar to what happened in Zim. It will start cracking down on opposition and we will become a democracy only in name.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:57 pm 
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argus wrote:
Alfy wrote:
saffer13 wrote:
Sorry to hear that Alfy. There have been an increasing number of saffas on PR lately saying the same thing. Any thoughts on where you want to go and what you'd like to do?


It's difficult for me.

I'm over 40 now, it took me 20 years to build up a business from nothing. My oldest kid just started High School.
Its difficult and scary to think of uprooting my family now.

I have done business in the USA before (The venture was not successful though) .So I have a few contacts there.
I also feel that there is the biggest potential market for Software development (together with the fiercest competition).
I know however, that it's not easy emigrating to the US.

I'm, basically just angry with myself for being the optimist back when everyone was packing their bags. I guess I'm the fool now.


are you in a specific development niche ?


I can develop any software, but currently in Logistics systems.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:59 pm 
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Jensrsa wrote:
tl;dr


Some things deserve a read ;)


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:59 pm 
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Fangle wrote:
I was at a party not long ago, and spoke to an immigration lawyer there. She says that there has been a marked upturn of Saffas inquiring about coming to the States, but she said that she would only be able to help about 5% of them - the rest didn't have the qualifications.


Yip, USA would be the right place to go for me, but I know it's not easy to get in.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:59 pm 
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Alfy wrote:
argus wrote:
Alfy wrote:
saffer13 wrote:
Sorry to hear that Alfy. There have been an increasing number of saffas on PR lately saying the same thing. Any thoughts on where you want to go and what you'd like to do?


It's difficult for me.

I'm over 40 now, it took me 20 years to build up a business from nothing. My oldest kid just started High School.
Its difficult and scary to think of uprooting my family now.

I have done business in the USA before (The venture was not successful though) .So I have a few contacts there.
I also feel that there is the biggest potential market for Software development (together with the fiercest competition).
I know however, that it's not easy emigrating to the US.

I'm, basically just angry with myself for being the optimist back when everyone was packing their bags. I guess I'm the fool now.


are you in a specific development niche ?


I can develop any software, but currently in Logistics systems.


I can put you touch with someone in the industry who is looking for developers in Florida


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 5:03 pm 
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argus wrote:
Alfy wrote:
argus wrote:
Alfy wrote:
saffer13 wrote:
Sorry to hear that Alfy. There have been an increasing number of saffas on PR lately saying the same thing. Any thoughts on where you want to go and what you'd like to do?



are you in a specific development niche ?


I can develop any software, but currently in Logistics systems.


I can put you touch with someone in the industry who is looking for developers in Florida


Thanks. Might take you up on that offer.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 5:07 pm 
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Alfy wrote:
argus wrote:
Alfy wrote:

I can develop any software, but currently in Logistics systems.


I can put you touch with someone in the industry who is looking for developers in Florida


Thanks. Might take you up on that offer.


Good work argus. Stormers supporters saving the world. :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 5:08 pm 
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let me know

the company has a SA connection so there may be a fit


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 5:11 pm 
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argus wrote:
let me know

the company has a SA connection so there may be a fit


My ideal would be living in SA, earning U.S. $$ :nod:


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 5:15 pm 
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Drop a line into
Le Goret
Immigration Dept
9 rue de Liege
Paris 9


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 5:18 pm 
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shame you don't play rugby alfy

You could get a frnch passport quicker than you could say merd


Feel for your situation. Best of luck!


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 5:19 pm 
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Alfy wrote:
Well, My business is doing well, so no complaints there. In fact I really have no complaints in terms of my quality of live.

I just don't think that White people have a future in South Africa.


i'm already confused

Quote:
Most black people (Looking at ANC/EFF voting patterns as my source) do not want White people in SA and don't care if the country goes down burning as long as AA and BEE are enforced.


i disagree - i live and work in a community predominated by black people - 99% at a guess - and the vast majority of them are disillusioned with the present government and the parastatals

Quote:
I used to believe that things will go differently in SA, that will really be a rainbow nation. But racial division and hatred widening and clear for all to see. The ANC of today is becoming a Police state and I starting to wonder what will happen if they should loose the election.

My mind is telling me that it will go similar to what happened in Zim. It will start cracking down on opposition and we will become a democracy only in name.


we are a constitutional democracy bolstered by a very strong judiciary that has proven its independance over and again


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 5:22 pm 
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Sad story Alfy . Very frustrating .

Not in the same league but your plight reminds me of a conversation I had with a school headmistress some years ago when I was considering moving house & home for a better job/location . My kids were at her school and I was thinking whats for the best ? She told me that some years earlier her husband had an excellent chance of promotion if he agreed to move house and location ,meaning their older children having to change schools . For reasons she didn't go into they declined the move and promotion . She told me that less than three years later , she was a widow , her two sons were at university , neither returned home , both marrying and moving away.

I took her advice and took the job .

I'm certainly not comparing our situations and I wish you well for the future .


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 5:23 pm 
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Monk Zombie wrote:

we are a constitutional democracy bolstered by a very strong judiciary that has proven its independance over and again


Which is one of the major reasons I just don't see SA going the Zim way.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 5:25 pm 
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I have a mate that just moved to Canada from SA. He and his wife have been here for a few weeks.


Perhaps Canada might be easier for you to get in, with the Commonwealth Connection.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 5:31 pm 
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Alfy, a couple of thoughts here.

Getting into the US is tough but not impossible. I've been here for a few years now. I would start by entering the Green Card lottery each year. It is free. I know loads of my fellow Saffers just in my own social group here in DC that have won it.

I would say though that the grass is not always greener. I know a lot of Saffers here who are very unhappy and are struggling. I also know many who love it here and would never go back. It certainly isn't home for me and never will be but I do love DC.

Secondly, most Saffers seem to go through this guy for immigration. He is South African and based in Florida. He is supposed to be a very nice guy. Tap him up. He also comes back to SA a few times a year and does workshops on immigrating. Maybe worth meeting him then?

https://www.facebook.com/grant.kaplan.75?fref=ts

Good luck. Let me know if I can help this side. Always happy to help a brother.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 5:34 pm 
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Come to Ireland.

The rugby and cricket powerhouse of Europe


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 5:35 pm 
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I understand completely what you are saying Alfy.
We are all feeling the same way so please don't feel alone.
My biggest fear is escalated violence. The rest has come to pass. That is a distinct possibility.
I am 52. Not easy for me. I am considering getting out of the market. It is just not the same anymore. Friends and aquaintances are thinking or busy moving. All over. You keep wondering whether you are selfishly putting your family at risk because you are feeling as though it is too late for you to move.
There is blatant disrespect for any order or respect in the country presently. With Zuma at the head it is rotten all the way through.

I hear they are planning on re trenching a lot of white people from Telkom. I hear the same about Eskom. My neighbour does work for Eskom. He is busy getting ready to leave for Portugal. He wants to get out before he is forced to leave.
It is not a very good situation. And the world does not give a feck. Not the smallest amount.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 5:44 pm 
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SAfan wrote:
Alfy, a couple of thoughts here.

Getting into the US is tough but not impossible. I've been here for a few years now. I would start by entering the Green Card lottery each year. It is free. I know loads of my fellow Saffers just in my own social group here in DC that have won it.

I would say though that the grass is not always greener. I know a lot of Saffers here who are very unhappy and are struggling. I also know many who love it here and would never go back. It certainly isn't home for me and never will be but I do love DC.

Secondly, most Saffers seem to go through this guy for immigration. He is South African and based in Florida. He is supposed to be a very nice guy. Tap him up. He also comes back to SA a few times a year and does workshops on immigrating. Maybe worth meeting him then?

https://www.facebook.com/grant.kaplan.75?fref=ts

Good luck. Let me know if I can help this side. Always happy to help a brother.


he is my neck of the woods and works with a lot of SA immigrants. Very visable in the SA community


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 5:56 pm 
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hornets wrote:
I have a mate that just moved to Canada from SA. He and his wife have been here for a few weeks.


Perhaps Canada might be easier for you to get in, with the Commonwealth Connection.


I was just about to say it. I'm in Canada and I've bumped into a fair few South Africans since I came here, so that might be true.
Decent Health and Education systems for the family, and ready access to US markets for you.

I have a Saffer ex, and I nearly moved there one time, except that she was/is a nutter.
I've kept a weather eye on the place since though, because she was a nice nutter, and I fear she will stay there too long, (rose tinted view of the rainbow nation and a hell of a good lifestyle).

I wouldn't be too upset in your position. You've faced the facts, and are making a move. Better that than waste another ten years on a sinking ship.
I'm your age, and I did find it a bit more daunting than any of my gallivanting in my younger years, mainly because I had a family to move, and more things to consider than just myself, but in reality the transition was easy.

Attitude is important. Better to run towards a new life than away from an old one.

Best of luck with it.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 6:12 pm 
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Monk Zombie wrote:
Alfy wrote:
Well, My business is doing well, so no complaints there. In fact I really have no complaints in terms of my quality of live.

I just don't think that White people have a future in South Africa.

i'm already confused

It's not that hard to understand really Monk.

Few go into the civil service/parastatals expecting to make millions. Instead public service, duty and patriotism are significant motivating factors in there somewhere. Connected to those things, is a belief they'll receive at least roughly equal treatment and fairness in promotions etc. otherwise why bother. When these things don't happen, to the extent that foreigners are favoured over you because they are black, even in the midst of massive and overlapping crisis situations. It is inevitably going to undermine that person's sense of public service, and patriotism.

Before the ANC started discriminating against minorities, especially whites, South Africa had a very small private sector. It was a highly state run and monopolised economy. Many of those removed from the parastatals in the late 90s and early 00s, were forced by necessity to start their own businesses. Every white South African family I know has a story similar to the one in the opening post. Now SA has a larger small/medium private sector than it has ever had, and a falling apart state sector. The ANC response has been increasingly draconian BEE laws targeting private businesses. For some this is now the second time they've been chased by the ANC. Seems logical to question things given the circumstances.

Interestingly, Alfy is the 3rd Saffa business owner on here that has posted they're thinking about leaving. Sard and SauCer have also posted similar recently.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 6:16 pm 
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These types of threads/experiences have me feeling less than excited about continuing the search for opportunities to back to SA though tbh. Especially with a young family :(


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 6:20 pm 
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Very sad.
Especially as we are here because we love South Africa.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 6:44 pm 
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saffer13 wrote:
These types of threads/experiences have me feeling less than excited about continuing the search for opportunities to back to SA though tbh. Especially with a young family :(


I can imagine man. I am internally truly a soutpiel / divided. Im 29, have no family of my own but worry about a future here all the time and decreasing opportunity / racist policy. I have worried about the future of this country for the last five years approx yet still have not made the move....even being in a very serious relationship with a British girl for 6 years.

Im in England on business now...its a great place. I assume in a few years I will end up here based on family ties though if I am honest with myself though still truly cant imagine leaving. You come over to SA with your job if I recall? So I assume you are fairly clued up on the current state of the place and would be making an informed decision. Any particular reasons for the interest in returning?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 6:52 pm 
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BokStorm wrote:
saffer13 wrote:
These types of threads/experiences have me feeling less than excited about continuing the search for opportunities to back to SA though tbh. Especially with a young family :(


I can imagine man. I am internally truly a soutpiel / divided. Im 29, have no family of my own but worry about a future here all the time and decreasing opportunity / racist policy. I have worried about the future of this country for the last five years approx yet still have not made the move....even being in a very serious relationship with a British girl for 6 years.

Im in England on business now...its a great place. I assume in a few years I will end up here based on family ties though if I am honest with myself though still truly cant imagine leaving. You come over to SA with your job if I recall? So I assume you are fairly clued up on the current state of the place and would be making an informed decision. Any particular reasons for the interest in returning?


Honestly, it's as simply as I just bloody miss it so much. That and the family connections, I would love my kids to grow up with their cousins because as it stands they hardly know them. Those are the major to reason tbh, all sentimental in nature, certainly not financial.

TBH, if I were I'd try living in different places while you're still single and without kids. They are definitely a complicator when considering a move like this. I get caught between the sentimental side of things and the what's best for the family side of things.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 6:57 pm 
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@saffer13: can you elaborate if you want, and apart from the family and friends, what you "miss so much" about SA and what part of the lifestyle / way things happen over there, you would like to re-connect with?


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