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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:20 pm 
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There have just been two massive stories on this family. One in Esquire, and one in the New Yorker.

The general tone of the articles is one of disbelief that they could have flown under the radar, yet in clear sight for so long.

It is surely one of the wickedest family fortunes on the planet today, and their must be some concern that they have lost control of their invisibility. It's hard to not see comparisons with the Opium fortune extracted by the Sassoon family in China.

It will be very interesting to see where this goes from here. Both times I was alerted to these by an American friend of mine who is a pharamaceutical journalist, and his type are crawling all over them now.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017 ... re-of-pain

http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a1 ... oxycontin/


Last edited by Seneca of the Night on Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:25 pm 
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In a sporting aside to that, the English cricketer Jamie Dalrymple married into the family, so lives in a £25m house in Chelsea. Not bad going.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:26 pm 
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Is it only the USA and NZ where pharmaceuticals can be advertised? It seems a pretty bad thing to do.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:37 pm 
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A very interesting read Sotn. What religion are they ? There is usually a theme to your threads.

Oh and sort the thread title out ffs


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:47 pm 
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Man In Black wrote:
Is it only the USA and NZ where pharmaceuticals can be advertised? It seems a pretty bad thing to do.


It's not advertising to the public that's bad here, it's bribing and/or fooling doctors and regulators into believing opioids are safe.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:59 pm 
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Sandstorm wrote:
Man In Black wrote:
Is it only the USA and NZ where pharmaceuticals can be advertised? It seems a pretty bad thing to do.


It's not advertising to the public that's bad here, it's bribing and/or fooling doctors and regulators into believing opioids are safe.


That's the same story in America (unless you are in America? Not sure)


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:02 pm 
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There's been some great long form journalism into this epidemic recently. It's harrowing.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:30 pm 
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Sandstorm wrote:
Man In Black wrote:
Is it only the USA and NZ where pharmaceuticals can be advertised? It seems a pretty bad thing to do.


It's not advertising to the public that's bad here, it's bribing and/or fooling doctors and regulators into believing opioids are safe.


I've read into this a bit. Couple things going on. First, people and companies want a medication for everything. Oxy falls under pain management therapy which has blown up huge, and doctors that underprescribe painkillers have in some weird examples gotten pulled into medical malpractice lawsuits. On the flipside, you also have the docs that overprescribe for everything, and they're the drug companies' best friends. Some are probably bought off, but I also believe some are just not good, lazy doctors. My sister-in-law works in surgery and tells me of one doctor she doesn't like because he gives out drugs like candy.

And then we have an episode like one at a local high school last week where 3 students all took " a yellow pill" and went unconscious. Meanwhile this is taking a larger toll on the country than any drug scare from the past 40 years. Think cocaine affected 2 out of every 10000 people. The current one is 10 out of every 10000.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:45 pm 
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JM2K6 wrote:
There's been some great long form journalism into this epidemic recently. It's harrowing.


The doc Prescription Thugs deals with similar material too I think.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:12 pm 
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Man In Black wrote:
Is it only the USA and NZ where pharmaceuticals can be advertised? It seems a pretty bad thing to do.


The amount of drug advertising here is sickening. Advertising to the public is absolutely an awful thing to do and it's a big source of our problems with health care spending in this country.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:19 pm 
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Flyin Ryan wrote:
Sandstorm wrote:
Man In Black wrote:
Is it only the USA and NZ where pharmaceuticals can be advertised? It seems a pretty bad thing to do.


It's not advertising to the public that's bad here, it's bribing and/or fooling doctors and regulators into believing opioids are safe.


I've read into this a bit. Couple things going on. First, people and companies want a medication for everything. Oxy falls under pain management therapy which has blown up huge, and doctors that underprescribe painkillers have in some weird examples gotten pulled into medical malpractice lawsuits. On the flipside, you also have the docs that overprescribe for everything, and they're the drug companies' best friends. Some are probably bought off, but I also believe some are just not good, lazy doctors. My sister-in-law works in surgery and tells me of one doctor she doesn't like because he gives out drugs like candy.

And then we have an episode like one at a local high school last week where 3 students all took " a yellow pill" and went unconscious. Meanwhile this is taking a larger toll on the country than any drug scare from the past 40 years. Think cocaine affected 2 out of every 10000 people. The current one is 10 out of every 10000.


It's not just the doctors that overprescribe, it's the doctors that prescribe because their patients demand a specific medication. And that's not just for opioids. That's for antibiotics too, which has caused the efficacy of antibiotics to decline. Also, particularly in the US, everyone seems to think they should feel perfect all the time. Everyone has aches and pains as they age. It's part of life. But we demand a medication for everything. I work with drug data for a living and the ridiculous amounts of drugs you see some people taking as maintenance meds are absurd.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:47 pm 
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Jesus...


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 6:52 pm 
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Santa wrote:
Jesus...

His type of healing causes a different set of side effects


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:04 pm 
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Cool article :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:15 pm 
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goeagles wrote:
Flyin Ryan wrote:
Sandstorm wrote:
Man In Black wrote:
Is it only the USA and NZ where pharmaceuticals can be advertised? It seems a pretty bad thing to do.


It's not advertising to the public that's bad here, it's bribing and/or fooling doctors and regulators into believing opioids are safe.


I've read into this a bit. Couple things going on. First, people and companies want a medication for everything. Oxy falls under pain management therapy which has blown up huge, and doctors that underprescribe painkillers have in some weird examples gotten pulled into medical malpractice lawsuits. On the flipside, you also have the docs that overprescribe for everything, and they're the drug companies' best friends. Some are probably bought off, but I also believe some are just not good, lazy doctors. My sister-in-law works in surgery and tells me of one doctor she doesn't like because he gives out drugs like candy.

And then we have an episode like one at a local high school last week where 3 students all took " a yellow pill" and went unconscious. Meanwhile this is taking a larger toll on the country than any drug scare from the past 40 years. Think cocaine affected 2 out of every 10000 people. The current one is 10 out of every 10000.


It's not just the doctors that overprescribe, it's the doctors that prescribe because their patients demand a specific medication. And that's not just for opioids. That's for antibiotics too, which has caused the efficacy of antibiotics to decline. Also, particularly in the US, everyone seems to think they should feel perfect all the time. Everyone has aches and pains as they age. It's part of life. But we demand a medication for everything. I work with drug data for a living and the ridiculous amounts of drugs you see some people taking as maintenance meds are absurd.


Agree with what you said. And if doctor says no, some people just doctor shop until they find someone that says yes.

I try to take as little medicine as possible unless I absolutely need it. I jacked up my thumb in rugby match a week ago and before the game this past weekend I took a couple Excedrin, and that was the 2nd time I'd ever taken a painkiller for rugby in 9 years. Then you have the guys that are "every time they lace on the boots".

The "low T" commercials infuriate me. Low T is low testosterone, usually with 40 to 50 year old males talking about how they don't have the energy they used to. Well no shit, it's called getting old. Also every steroid fiend's best friend.

Indiana the past 5 to 10 years has just gotten hammered with this, meth which unlike oxy that could in theory be banned, to combat meth you'd have to get rid of over-the-counter cold medicine.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:52 pm 
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goeagles wrote:
It's not just the doctors that overprescribe, it's the doctors that prescribe because their patients demand a specific medication. And that's not just for opioids. That's for antibiotics too, which has caused the efficacy of antibiotics to decline. Also, particularly in the US, everyone seems to think they should feel perfect all the time. Everyone has aches and pains as they age. It's part of life. But we demand a medication for everything.I work with drug data for a living and the ridiculous amounts of drugs you see some people taking as maintenance meds are absurd.


This. My mom’s been taking Xanax to help her go to sleep for probably 15 years now, for instance. Pretty sure that’s not supposed to be a sleep aid.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:06 pm 
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fonzeee wrote:
goeagles wrote:
It's not just the doctors that overprescribe, it's the doctors that prescribe because their patients demand a specific medication. And that's not just for opioids. That's for antibiotics too, which has caused the efficacy of antibiotics to decline. Also, particularly in the US, everyone seems to think they should feel perfect all the time. Everyone has aches and pains as they age. It's part of life. But we demand a medication for everything.I work with drug data for a living and the ridiculous amounts of drugs you see some people taking as maintenance meds are absurd.


This. My mom’s been taking Xanax to help her go to sleep for probably 15 years now, for instance. Pretty sure that’s not supposed to be a sleep aid.


Isn't Xanax like Valium? Sackler family were in on that one too. Your mother must feel pretty groggy in the morning.

I'm pretty lucky as I have never felt any pain for anything in my life (so far). I don't even ever take over the counter pain killers.

Of course alchohol has been used to dull the pain of my dark soul, but that's another story.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:27 pm 
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fonzeee wrote:
goeagles wrote:
It's not just the doctors that overprescribe, it's the doctors that prescribe because their patients demand a specific medication. And that's not just for opioids. That's for antibiotics too, which has caused the efficacy of antibiotics to decline. Also, particularly in the US, everyone seems to think they should feel perfect all the time. Everyone has aches and pains as they age. It's part of life. But we demand a medication for everything.I work with drug data for a living and the ridiculous amounts of drugs you see some people taking as maintenance meds are absurd.


This. My mom’s been taking Xanax to help her go to sleep for probably 15 years now, for instance. Pretty sure that’s not supposed to be a sleep aid.



Benzos should only be prescribed for short periods of time barring very specific circumstances as they induce dependency very quickly. If her doctor has been prescribing them to her for 15 years just as a sleeping aid he/she should be struck off.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:32 pm 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
fonzeee wrote:
goeagles wrote:
It's not just the doctors that overprescribe, it's the doctors that prescribe because their patients demand a specific medication. And that's not just for opioids. That's for antibiotics too, which has caused the efficacy of antibiotics to decline. Also, particularly in the US, everyone seems to think they should feel perfect all the time. Everyone has aches and pains as they age. It's part of life. But we demand a medication for everything.I work with drug data for a living and the ridiculous amounts of drugs you see some people taking as maintenance meds are absurd.


This. My mom’s been taking Xanax to help her go to sleep for probably 15 years now, for instance. Pretty sure that’s not supposed to be a sleep aid.


Isn't Xanax like Valium? Sackler family were in on that one too. Your mother must feel pretty groggy in the morning.

I'm pretty lucky as I have never felt any pain for anything in my life (so far). I don't even ever take over the counter pain killers.

Of course alchohol has been used to dull the pain of my dark soul, but that's another story.


Yep, they’re both “benzos” (benzodiazepines).

Lately my mom’s been complaining about a loss of coordination, been getting all sorts of scans and diagnostics done, etc...well, guess what is one common side effect of benzo usage? Loss of motor control.

Now my mother could have said “no”, but she’s the type that would jump off a bridge if a guy with an MD told her to.

I don’t know how it’ll happen but these plums gotta pay. I won’t hold my breath though.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:51 pm 
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fonzeee wrote:
Seneca of the Night wrote:
fonzeee wrote:
goeagles wrote:
It's not just the doctors that overprescribe, it's the doctors that prescribe because their patients demand a specific medication. And that's not just for opioids. That's for antibiotics too, which has caused the efficacy of antibiotics to decline. Also, particularly in the US, everyone seems to think they should feel perfect all the time. Everyone has aches and pains as they age. It's part of life. But we demand a medication for everything.I work with drug data for a living and the ridiculous amounts of drugs you see some people taking as maintenance meds are absurd.


This. My mom’s been taking Xanax to help her go to sleep for probably 15 years now, for instance. Pretty sure that’s not supposed to be a sleep aid.


Isn't Xanax like Valium? Sackler family were in on that one too. Your mother must feel pretty groggy in the morning.

I'm pretty lucky as I have never felt any pain for anything in my life (so far). I don't even ever take over the counter pain killers.

Of course alchohol has been used to dull the pain of my dark soul, but that's another story.


Yep, they’re both “benzos” (benzodiazepines).

Lately my mom’s been complaining about a loss of coordination, been getting all sorts of scans and diagnostics done, etc...well, guess what is one common side effect of benzo usage? Loss of motor control.

Now my mother could have said “no”, but she’s the type that would jump off a bridge if a guy with an MD told her to.

I don’t know how it’ll happen but these plums gotta pay. I won’t hold my breath though.


Well, 'someone', I'm not sure who, has clearly decided that the Sackler story needs to be told, and even if it doesn't end up in court, the reputation laundering via philanthropy trick is coming to a swift end.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:05 pm 
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Man In Black wrote:
Is it only the USA and NZ where pharmaceuticals can be advertised? It seems a pretty bad thing to do.


In the States huge amounts are spent on TV advertising.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:21 pm 
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I have a friend who is head of security at a local University and he has instigated training by his staff to deliver Naloxone/Narcan.
The kits cost about $1000, but are lifesavers.
Interestingly, there have been no overdoses on his campus yet, but he wants to be ahead of the curve.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:22 pm 
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Really good read.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:36 pm 
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Flyin Ryan wrote:
Sandstorm wrote:
Man In Black wrote:
Is it only the USA and NZ where pharmaceuticals can be advertised? It seems a pretty bad thing to do.


It's not advertising to the public that's bad here, it's bribing and/or fooling doctors and regulators into believing opioids are safe.


I've read into this a bit. Couple things going on. First, people and companies want a medication for everything. Oxy falls under pain management therapy which has blown up huge, and doctors that underprescribe painkillers have in some weird examples gotten pulled into medical malpractice lawsuits. On the flipside, you also have the docs that overprescribe for everything, and they're the drug companies' best friends. Some are probably bought off, but I also believe some are just not good, lazy doctors. My sister-in-law works in surgery and tells me of one doctor she doesn't like because he gives out drugs like candy.

And then we have an episode like one at a local high school last week where 3 students all took " a yellow pill" and went unconscious. Meanwhile this is taking a larger toll on the country than any drug scare from the past 40 years. Think cocaine affected 2 out of every 10000 people. The current one is 10 out of every 10000.


Would you know how many people are/were affected by crack cocaine?

EDIT: pretty good read SOTN.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:12 pm 
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flaggETERNAL wrote:
Flyin Ryan wrote:
Sandstorm wrote:
Man In Black wrote:
Is it only the USA and NZ where pharmaceuticals can be advertised? It seems a pretty bad thing to do.


It's not advertising to the public that's bad here, it's bribing and/or fooling doctors and regulators into believing opioids are safe.


I've read into this a bit. Couple things going on. First, people and companies want a medication for everything. Oxy falls under pain management therapy which has blown up huge, and doctors that underprescribe painkillers have in some weird examples gotten pulled into medical malpractice lawsuits. On the flipside, you also have the docs that overprescribe for everything, and they're the drug companies' best friends. Some are probably bought off, but I also believe some are just not good, lazy doctors. My sister-in-law works in surgery and tells me of one doctor she doesn't like because he gives out drugs like candy.

And then we have an episode like one at a local high school last week where 3 students all took " a yellow pill" and went unconscious. Meanwhile this is taking a larger toll on the country than any drug scare from the past 40 years. Think cocaine affected 2 out of every 10000 people. The current one is 10 out of every 10000.


Would you know how many people are/were affected by crack cocaine?

EDIT: pretty good read SOTN.


Provisional U.S. drug overdose deaths in 2016:

Fentanyl and fentanyl analogues 20100
Heroin 15400
Prescription opioids 14400
Cocaine 10600
Meth 7660
Methadone 3280

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 ... eaths.html


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:52 pm 
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fonzeee wrote:
goeagles wrote:
It's not just the doctors that overprescribe, it's the doctors that prescribe because their patients demand a specific medication. And that's not just for opioids. That's for antibiotics too, which has caused the efficacy of antibiotics to decline. Also, particularly in the US, everyone seems to think they should feel perfect all the time. Everyone has aches and pains as they age. It's part of life. But we demand a medication for everything.I work with drug data for a living and the ridiculous amounts of drugs you see some people taking as maintenance meds are absurd.


This. My mom’s been taking Xanax to help her go to sleep for probably 15 years now, for instance. Pretty sure that’s not supposed to be a sleep aid.


Well that is bad but nothing like what I see on a regular basis. I've seen people taking 20 different drugs every month for long periods of time. Who even knows all of the interactions at that point?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:58 pm 
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goeagles wrote:
Man In Black wrote:
Is it only the USA and NZ where pharmaceuticals can be advertised? It seems a pretty bad thing to do.


The amount of drug advertising here is sickening. Advertising to the public is absolutely an awful thing to do and it's a big source of our problems with health care spending in this country.

I was shocked by it. It’s constant, and absolutely everywhere. Tv, the subway, billboards, papers... Madness. Services’ being offered to get medication if your doctor won’t hand it over. Extremely nasty business.

Can’t remember where I heard this, but apparently heroin is back on the rise again - it’s become cheaper and easier to get than a lot of these prescription opioids. I will say though, last flight I took from the States to Australia this guy just popped a couple of Xannies, a Valium, had a whiskey, and was totally gone for almost the entire flight. If you’re looking into the non-thinking end of self-medicating, I can see why you’d go for the benzos.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:16 am 
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Have recommended the book Dreamland: The True Tale of America's Opiate Epidemic previously. It is harrowing reading.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:47 am 
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Dumbledore wrote:
goeagles wrote:
Man In Black wrote:
Is it only the USA and NZ where pharmaceuticals can be advertised? It seems a pretty bad thing to do.


The amount of drug advertising here is sickening. Advertising to the public is absolutely an awful thing to do and it's a big source of our problems with health care spending in this country.

I was shocked by it. It’s constant, and absolutely everywhere. Tv, the subway, billboards, papers... Madness. Services’ being offered to get medication if your doctor won’t hand it over. Extremely nasty business.

Can’t remember where I heard this, but apparently heroin is back on the rise again - it’s become cheaper and easier to get than a lot of these prescription opioids. I will say though, last flight I took from the States to Australia this guy just popped a couple of Xannies, a Valium, had a whiskey, and was totally gone for almost the entire flight. If you’re looking into the non-thinking end of self-medicating, I can see why you’d go for the benzos.


Yes, heroin is absolutely on the rise again. That's mostly what the opioid epidemic is about. There have been a bunch of documentaries on Netflix and HBO the past few years that follow suburban addicts around. Most of them are dead by the end of the documentary and all end up relapsing.

It's also much more of a problem in certain areas of the country. The Northeast has been particularly hard hit. My clients in New England all have Suboxone, which is used to treat addiction, as the drug they spend the most on. It's usually not even in the top 20 for California clients. But of course it's still something of a problem in California too. A friend from high school, who had the talent to play rugby at a high level, has been struggling with a heroin addiction for over 5 years. Awful stuff and it's been even harder on his family.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:47 am 
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The New Yorker article is a bloody good read, haven't got round to the other one yet. But I like this Sen, you should stick to this stuff rather than your usual shtick.

Man In Black wrote:
Is it only the USA and NZ where pharmaceuticals can be advertised? It seems a pretty bad thing to do.

Is it that prevalent in NZ? I can't remember being bombarded with advertising, and I assume due to Pharmac, it's impact would be less then in the US.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:58 am 
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goeagles wrote:
Dumbledore wrote:
goeagles wrote:
Man In Black wrote:
Is it only the USA and NZ where pharmaceuticals can be advertised? It seems a pretty bad thing to do.


The amount of drug advertising here is sickening. Advertising to the public is absolutely an awful thing to do and it's a big source of our problems with health care spending in this country.

I was shocked by it. It’s constant, and absolutely everywhere. Tv, the subway, billboards, papers... Madness. Services’ being offered to get medication if your doctor won’t hand it over. Extremely nasty business.

Can’t remember where I heard this, but apparently heroin is back on the rise again - it’s become cheaper and easier to get than a lot of these prescription opioids. I will say though, last flight I took from the States to Australia this guy just popped a couple of Xannies, a Valium, had a whiskey, and was totally gone for almost the entire flight. If you’re looking into the non-thinking end of self-medicating, I can see why you’d go for the benzos.


Yes, heroin is absolutely on the rise again. That's mostly what the opioid epidemic is about. There have been a bunch of documentaries on Netflix and HBO the past few years that follow suburban addicts around. Most of them are dead by the end of the documentary and all end up relapsing.

It's also much more of a problem in certain areas of the country. The Northeast has been particularly hard hit. My clients in New England all have Suboxone, which is used to treat addiction, as the drug they spend the most on. It's usually not even in the top 20 for California clients. But of course it's still something of a problem in California too. A friend from high school, who had the talent to play rugby at a high level, has been struggling with a heroin addiction for over 5 years. Awful stuff and it's been even harder on his family.


In Indiana, we are Meth Central as far as production. There's been an argument in state government about how best to combat it, not a Republican-vs-Democrat split, but how to remove the tools of production which are based on simple cold medicine because everyone agrees police-only is not going to work, and doctors are fighting back with "please dear God do not make us have to write a prescription for cold medication". Indiana police one year found and closed down 300 meth labs around the state, they think they only got maybe 10% of them.

I don't know if it's part of the Drug War ending and widely being called a failure, but a lot of people now are addicts and it's overwhelmed police, health clinics, governments. I see the President is going to have a commission start up Thursday on this. We'll see what happens and how effective it'll be. The Obama Administration really only stayed on the fringes of the issue. Obama's point man was his Secretary of Agriculture Tom Vilsack. I read an article on Vilsack shortly before last year's election on this issue and while he of course wasn't going to throw the president under the bus, "general frustration" would be an apt description of his feelings. It's a hard-to-tackle issue and one that can't be boiled down into simple sound bites, so of course politicians try to avoid it.


Last edited by Flyin Ryan on Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:00 am 
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goeagles wrote:
Dumbledore wrote:
goeagles wrote:
Man In Black wrote:
Is it only the USA and NZ where pharmaceuticals can be advertised? It seems a pretty bad thing to do.


The amount of drug advertising here is sickening. Advertising to the public is absolutely an awful thing to do and it's a big source of our problems with health care spending in this country.

I was shocked by it. It’s constant, and absolutely everywhere. Tv, the subway, billboards, papers... Madness. Services’ being offered to get medication if your doctor won’t hand it over. Extremely nasty business.

Can’t remember where I heard this, but apparently heroin is back on the rise again - it’s become cheaper and easier to get than a lot of these prescription opioids. I will say though, last flight I took from the States to Australia this guy just popped a couple of Xannies, a Valium, had a whiskey, and was totally gone for almost the entire flight. If you’re looking into the non-thinking end of self-medicating, I can see why you’d go for the benzos.


Yes, heroin is absolutely on the rise again. That's mostly what the opioid epidemic is about. There have been a bunch of documentaries on Netflix and HBO the past few years that follow suburban addicts around. Most of them are dead by the end of the documentary and all end up relapsing.

It's also much more of a problem in certain areas of the country. The Northeast has been particularly hard hit. My clients in New England all have Suboxone, which is used to treat addiction, as the drug they spend the most on. It's usually not even in the top 20 for California clients. But of course it's still something of a problem in California too. A friend from high school, who had the talent to play rugby at a high level, has been struggling with a heroin addiction for over 5 years. Awful stuff and it's been even harder on his family.

Yep, I've got a junkie uncle. Tears families apart. On and off heroin for 20-odd years, still an alcoholic. It's a nasty one. Does seem to be the secondary addiction - alcohol, meth, oxy, whatever - that does most of the physical damage mind.

Interesting about New England. Guess we always think of the Appalachians etc. as being the sort of country for this stuff, but the good thing about opioids is they're a nice, acceptable, way of forgetting about the world. Couple of pills is much less scary than a needle.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:54 am 
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Dumbledore wrote:
goeagles wrote:
Dumbledore wrote:
goeagles wrote:
Man In Black wrote:
Is it only the USA and NZ where pharmaceuticals can be advertised? It seems a pretty bad thing to do.


The amount of drug advertising here is sickening. Advertising to the public is absolutely an awful thing to do and it's a big source of our problems with health care spending in this country.

I was shocked by it. It’s constant, and absolutely everywhere. Tv, the subway, billboards, papers... Madness. Services’ being offered to get medication if your doctor won’t hand it over. Extremely nasty business.

Can’t remember where I heard this, but apparently heroin is back on the rise again - it’s become cheaper and easier to get than a lot of these prescription opioids. I will say though, last flight I took from the States to Australia this guy just popped a couple of Xannies, a Valium, had a whiskey, and was totally gone for almost the entire flight. If you’re looking into the non-thinking end of self-medicating, I can see why you’d go for the benzos.


Yes, heroin is absolutely on the rise again. That's mostly what the opioid epidemic is about. There have been a bunch of documentaries on Netflix and HBO the past few years that follow suburban addicts around. Most of them are dead by the end of the documentary and all end up relapsing.

It's also much more of a problem in certain areas of the country. The Northeast has been particularly hard hit. My clients in New England all have Suboxone, which is used to treat addiction, as the drug they spend the most on. It's usually not even in the top 20 for California clients. But of course it's still something of a problem in California too. A friend from high school, who had the talent to play rugby at a high level, has been struggling with a heroin addiction for over 5 years. Awful stuff and it's been even harder on his family.

Yep, I've got a junkie uncle. Tears families apart. On and off heroin for 20-odd years, still an alcoholic. It's a nasty one. Does seem to be the secondary addiction - alcohol, meth, oxy, whatever - that does most of the physical damage mind.

Interesting about New England. Guess we always think of the Appalachians etc. as being the sort of country for this stuff, but the good thing about opioids is they're a nice, acceptable, way of forgetting about the world. Couple of pills is much less scary than a needle.


Cape Cod of all places:

https://www.hbo.com/documentaries/heroin-cape-cod-usa


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:17 am 
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Petros wrote:
Man In Black wrote:
Is it only the USA and NZ where pharmaceuticals can be advertised? It seems a pretty bad thing to do.


In the States huge amounts are spent on TV advertising.

Pharma ads are ridiculous
It’s one minute of someone jumping around with their family and four minutes of possible side effects followed by a trailer line of ‘ask your dr if drug x is suitable for you’


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:18 am 
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I thought this was a key paragraph in the article:

Quote:
Purdue executives won’t be able to settle every case against them, Moore believes. “There’s going to be a jury somewhere, someplace, that’s going to hit them with the largest judgment in the nation’s history,” he said. Paul Hanly noted that, in the face of a crippling judgment, Purdue may have to declare bankruptcy. “But I’m certainly not going to walk away if they do,” he said. “At that point, I would start looking closely at individual liability on the part of the Sacklers.”


I wonder if there are some pretty serious family conferences going on about this. It's going to be a twenty year fight for them.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:28 am 
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Great article Sen. I never expected the opioid epidemic to look to be so firmly lying at the foot of the door of one closely held private company.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:43 am 
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Zakar wrote:
Great article Sen. I never expected the opioid epidemic to look to be so firmly lying at the foot of the door of one closely held private company.


I was wandering around the British Museum about 8 months ago and noticed a gallery named after the family. I stood there and googled them on my phone. I couldn't believe what I was reading. That was the first time I'd heard of them. I suspect that a few American journalists were having the same 'aha' moment at the same time. Hence now this flurry of articles.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:16 am 
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TBF, the rest of the industry must shoulder some blame. The marketing of pharmaceuticals in the US offends even my libertarian sensibilities.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:38 am 
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Flyin Ryan wrote:
Provisional U.S. drug overdose deaths in 2016:

Fentanyl and fentanyl analogues 20100
Heroin 15400
Prescription opioids 14400
Cocaine 10600
Meth 7660
Methadone 3280

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 ... eaths.html

As someone on the radio pointed out the other day, that's close to the total no. of US deaths in Vietnam in just one year from opioids. Mental. And of course out of scope for the War On Drugs because it's the big pharma companies and the country club medical community who are guilty.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:02 am 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
fonzeee wrote:
goeagles wrote:
It's not just the doctors that overprescribe, it's the doctors that prescribe because their patients demand a specific medication. And that's not just for opioids. That's for antibiotics too, which has caused the efficacy of antibiotics to decline. Also, particularly in the US, everyone seems to think they should feel perfect all the time. Everyone has aches and pains as they age. It's part of life. But we demand a medication for everything.I work with drug data for a living and the ridiculous amounts of drugs you see some people taking as maintenance meds are absurd.


This. My mom’s been taking Xanax to help her go to sleep for probably 15 years now, for instance. Pretty sure that’s not supposed to be a sleep aid.


Isn't Xanax like Valium? Sackler family were in on that one too. Your mother must feel pretty groggy in the morning.

I'm pretty lucky as I have never felt any pain for anything in my life (so far). I don't even ever take over the counter pain killers.

Of course alchohol has been used to dull the pain of my dark soul, but that's another story.


I've noticed that.

Great post.

There are some things that should not be part of the open market. The military, police, and the nation's health.


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