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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:04 pm 
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freewheelan wrote:
Zakar wrote:
Brazil wrote:
Surely a problem with the different timelines theory is that if Bernard is constant across the two of them, tech for the park has basically remained the same for 30 years whilst dealing with exponentially complex programming?

It'd be an incredibly bold narrative device to try and pull off if that's what they're doing, mind.


That's my problem with it to. How have none of thr staff noticed their colleague named Bernard failing to age for 35 years?


How many colleagues dream of electric sheep?

Are friends electric?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:52 pm 
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Zakar wrote:
Brazil wrote:
Surely a problem with the different timelines theory is that if Bernard is constant across the two of them, tech for the park has basically remained the same for 30 years whilst dealing with exponentially complex programming?

It'd be an incredibly bold narrative device to try and pull off if that's what they're doing, mind.


That's my problem with it to. How have none of thr staff noticed their colleague named Bernard failing to age for 35 years?

And wouldn't the (now deceased) woman who was regularly copulating with him have had a teensy suspicion. Are the androids capable of fooling experienced shaggers by convincingly replicating jizz in the right colour, consistency and flavour, and with variable volumetric and projectile qualities - or am I being a bit picky on that?


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:03 pm 
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Selim The Sot wrote:
Zakar wrote:
Brazil wrote:
Surely a problem with the different timelines theory is that if Bernard is constant across the two of them, tech for the park has basically remained the same for 30 years whilst dealing with exponentially complex programming?

It'd be an incredibly bold narrative device to try and pull off if that's what they're doing, mind.


That's my problem with it to. How have none of thr staff noticed their colleague named Bernard failing to age for 35 years?

And wouldn't the (now deceased) woman who was regularly copulating with him have had a teensy suspicion. Are the androids capable of fooling experienced shaggers by convincingly replicating jizz in the right colour, consistency and flavour, and with variable volumetric and projectile qualities - or am I being a bit picky on that?


:lol:

It's honestly an interesting show to compare with BBCs Humans...both a broadly similar subject matter, dealing with conciousness. I thoroughly beleive they both will be studied at length by some insufferable wanker in 40+ years time when it starts becoming a real concern.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:04 pm 
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I was confused for a while there between episodes 3-5 but now I think this is a brilliant show.

Let's hope it can finish well.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:06 pm 
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dontcaremuch wrote:
I was confused for a while there between episodes 3-5 but now I think this is a brilliant show.

Let's hope it can finish well.


Christ almighty, how long have you been back! :shock: :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:13 pm 
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Zakar wrote:
croyals wrote:
Zakar wrote:
Brazil wrote:
Surely a problem with the different timelines theory is that if Bernard is constant across the two of them, tech for the park has basically remained the same for 30 years whilst dealing with exponentially complex programming?

It'd be an incredibly bold narrative device to try and pull off if that's what they're doing, mind.


That's my problem with it to. How have none of thr staff noticed their colleague named Bernard failing to age for 35 years?

How many of the staff have been there for a long time? They all look fairly young...


Fairly, but surely not young enough not to realise something is awry.


I think that when all the plates finally come crashing down, there's going to need to be a decent amount of suspension of disbelief (but hoepfuelly a lot less than was required with Lost).

The biggest thing that irks (irks is possibly too strong a term) me bout the show is that it seems to operate in a parallel universe (and not the future as is stated) whereby society is seemingly OK with people killing near sentient robots that look exactly like humans. I understand that it is meant to represent the logical conclusion of people playing current sandbox games...but in reality, if Westworld really existed, there'd be Social Justice Warriors crawling all over it demanding rights for robots etc.


Last edited by Jeff the Bear on Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:16 pm 
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That will surely be explored in future seasons Jeff.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:38 pm 
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Well, we know it's bloody expensive as Logan, the scion of a rich family, saw fit to comment on the cost. It may well be that people visiting Westworld are thought of in the same manner as that dentist who shot Cecil the Lion.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:47 pm 
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Jay Cee Gee wrote:
Well, we know it's bloody expensive as Logan, the scion of a rich family, saw fit to comment on the cost. It may well be that people visiting Westworld are thought of in the same manner as that dentist who shot Cecil the Lion.


He's said 40k per day... Although no idea the year, so impossible to know how much that is in real terms after inflation


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 9:50 pm 
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Zakar wrote:
Jay Cee Gee wrote:
Well, we know it's bloody expensive as Logan, the scion of a rich family, saw fit to comment on the cost. It may well be that people visiting Westworld are thought of in the same manner as that dentist who shot Cecil the Lion.


He's said 40k per day... Although no idea the year, so impossible to know how much that is in real terms after inflation


Obv there's no real way to know what that means, but the implication was that he considered it expensive and his family is rich as f*ck, so it's safe to assume it's a luxury.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 3:21 am 
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Brazil wrote:
Surely a problem with the different timelines theory is that if Bernard is constant across the two of them, tech for the park has basically remained the same for 30 years whilst dealing with exponentially complex programming?

It'd be an incredibly bold narrative device to try and pull off if that's what they're doing, mind.


Bernard has not appeared in the William timeline. No non-hosts have appeared in a scene with William and Logan. Only Lawrence and Dolores have.

Regarding aging, we are talking about a future society with advanced medical processes. They've cured all diseases etc. So the equivalent of plastic surgery or age slowing methods seem perfectly within the realms of possibility. And before people say "but why does Ford look old then", well it will be a matter of fashion, some people will regard looking "senior" or "growing old gracefully" as a better look than "foreveryoung". I think the board executive looks far too young to be a senior executive of a mega-corp but I square that by the fact that she is probably decades older than she appears.

The implication is that there are 3 timelines. We see Arnold ("Bernard" is a copy of) 35 years ago in his dialogues with Dolores. Then 30 years ago we are seeing William and the events that lead to the critical park failure and finally a "present day" timeline that includes Ford, the Man in Black, Maeve and Theresa.


Last edited by village on Thu Nov 17, 2016 3:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 3:22 am 
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Big clue that MIB is William.

Here's a quote from an Ed Harris interview pre-WW
http://www.femalefirst.co.uk/celebrity/ ... 94069.html

Quote:
He told Tuscon.com: "Beforehand, they told me enough to understand what kind of life my character had in the outside world and why he was coming to this park.

"But then you get the script for Episode 7, say, and you're going, 'Oh! Thanks for telling me, man! I didn't realise THAT about myself!' "


Problem is Ed Harris/MIB doesn't appear in Episode 7, it's mostly about William.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 4:42 am 
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village wrote:
Brazil wrote:
I think the board executive looks far too young to be a senior executive of a mega-corp but I square that by the fact that she is probably decades older than she appears.



That black lass is also on my irked list. I always hate it when people who are clearly too young are strutting about as an an executive or Director or some other high powered job. It's the type of shit you see on the Disney shows.

Notwithstanding that, your theory may explain why someone 30 odd years younger than all the other senior characters in the show somehow has the whip hand.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 5:41 am 
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Jeff the Bear wrote:
village wrote:
Brazil wrote:
I think the board executive looks far too young to be a senior executive of a mega-corp but I square that by the fact that she is probably decades older than she appears.



That black lass is also on my irked list. I always hate it when people who are clearly too young are strutting about as an an executive or Director or some other high powered job. It's the type of shit you see on the Disney shows.

Notwithstanding that, your theory may explain why someone 30 odd years younger than all the other senior characters in the show somehow has the whip hand.


well as village said she may in fact be older than that. Or maybe in this alternative universe they hire young ppl as executives as that where ppl are most creative (show me a mathematician that achieved smething of note after 40). Or it could be that in the future instead of sending a CV you send your DNA sample and some AI program finds the best position for your abilities - no matter your age. Or she could be a daughter of some older rich guy who owns the Mega-Corp, lets call him 'The Donald' who went on to be the president of the USA and she manages the corp in his absence.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 5:44 am 
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village wrote:
Big clue that MIB is William.

Here's a quote from an Ed Harris interview pre-WW
http://www.femalefirst.co.uk/celebrity/ ... 94069.html

Quote:
He told Tuscon.com: "Beforehand, they told me enough to understand what kind of life my character had in the outside world and why he was coming to this park.

"But then you get the script for Episode 7, say, and you're going, 'Oh! Thanks for telling me, man! I didn't realise THAT about myself!' "


Problem is Ed Harris/MIB doesn't appear in Episode 7, it's mostly about William.


That may explain somewhat why he overegged it in the first episode in the scene where he 'brutalized' Dolores, which doesn't really sit well with this William character.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 5:47 am 
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village wrote:
Brazil wrote:
Surely a problem with the different timelines theory is that if Bernard is constant across the two of them, tech for the park has basically remained the same for 30 years whilst dealing with exponentially complex programming?

It'd be an incredibly bold narrative device to try and pull off if that's what they're doing, mind.


Bernard has not appeared in the William timeline. No non-hosts have appeared in a scene with William and Logan. Only Lawrence and Dolores have.

Regarding aging, we are talking about a future society with advanced medical processes. They've cured all diseases etc. So the equivalent of plastic surgery or age slowing methods seem perfectly within the realms of possibility. And before people say "but why does Ford look old then", well it will be a matter of fashion, some people will regard looking "senior" or "growing old gracefully" as a better look than "foreveryoung". I think the board executive looks far too young to be a senior executive of a mega-corp but I square that by the fact that she is probably decades older than she appears.

The implication is that there are 3 timelines. We see Arnold ("Bernard" is a copy of) 35 years ago in his dialogues with Dolores. Then 30 years ago we are seeing William and the events that lead to the critical park failure and finally a "present day" timeline that includes Ford, the Man in Black, Maeve and Theresa.


This Bernard = Arnold doesn't add up IMHO. Surely 30 years is not long enough for there being no one who doesn't know about Arnold and doesn't know how he looked like except for Ford.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:42 am 
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We know:
Arnold and Ford started WestWorld with a small team of engineers (according to Ford, who may be an unreliable narrator)

We know:
Arnold died 34 years, 42 days and 7 hours ago (according to Dolores) - i.e. years before Delos and the corporate team became a part of WestWorld
So the theory goes that no one at corporate WestWorld ever met Arnold apart from Ford and hence no one would make the connection to Bernard. It's far from certain I grant you but:

1) That "gap" to the right side of the photo that Ford shows Bernard of "Arnold" looks like it could contain a third person who robo-Bernard is unable to see. We know the other guy is robo-dad from the cabin.
Image
2) 'Bernard Lowe' is an anagram of 'Arnold Weber' - I know we don't know the surname is Weber but it's strangely close and just the sort of trick Nolan likes to play.
3) Arnold was driven by a personal tragedy, which also formed the basis of Bernard's false backstory.

I admit the above are all pretty thin but the biggest pointer I think are the scenes between "Bernard" and Dolores where he talks about letting her gain her freedom if she navigates the maze. They seem (to me) incongruous with the present day Bernard, especially if we now know he is Ford's tool. The conversation also seems to take place in the basement lab of the cabin, which Bernard is not supposed to have known about until last episode.

I still like the possibility that Ford is a robot, created by Arnold at the very start who first completed the maze (i.e. gained self-awareness) and with delicious irony, killed his master and turned the tables by creating an Arnold clone to serve him as the the legend of the maze might describe:
Quote:
The maze itself is the sum of a man's life. The choices he makes, the dreams he hangs onto. And there at the center there's a legendary man who'd been killed over and over again countless times. He always clawed his way back to life. The man returned for the last time and vanquished all his oppressors in a tireless fury. Built a house, and around that house he built a maze so complicated only he could navigate through it. I reckon he'd seen enough of fighting.


Ford's control of the park seems beyond human capacity to me. Everyone else walks around with futuristic ipads to control and interact with things and he just waves his hand and shuts down everything. The problem with my theory is the picture above shows a young Ford - which seems to prove he is human.

I think William is the Man in Black and we will see on that timeline he falls in love with Dolores and she navigates the maze and gains sentience. Ford does not want the other robots to gain sentience, since his uniqueness in this makes him a god among his robot people. Let's say he wiped Dolores 30 years ago and ever since William has been coming to the park to try and navigate the maze - i.e. find out how to unlock the sentience of the hosts to set Dolores (and the others free).

I'm probably wrong on most of the above.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:54 am 
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The only thing that seems to contradict that tMIB is William is how harsh he is on Deloris in EP 1.

I'm less sold on Bernard being Arnold. He tells her to try the maze, but never says it will grant her freedom.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 8:15 am 
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Zakar wrote:
The only thing that seems to contradict that tMIB is William is how harsh he is on Deloris in EP 1.

I'm less sold on Bernard being Arnold. He tells her to try the maze, but never says it will grant her freedom.


Hmm, seems pretty close to that:

Quote:
"There's something I'd like you to try. It's a game, a secret. It's called the maze. It's a very special kind of game, Dolores. The goal is to find the center of it. If you can do that, then maybe you can be free."


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 8:45 am 
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Zakar wrote:
The only thing that seems to contradict that tMIB is William is how harsh he is on Deloris in EP 1.


I don't think that's necessarily a contradiction, more just a possible plot point that needs to be explained. If he is the MIB, he's a lot harsher in general (and presumably this has transferred into his life outside the park given he's the big boss of a foundation rather than the VP mocked by Logan). Whatever happens at the end of the current William storyline may have turned him into a much harsher person.

And I mentioned in the other thread, perhaps the harshness - which is essentially playing the guest's role in that storyline - is intended to awaken Dolores.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 8:48 am 
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Jay Cee Gee wrote:
Zakar wrote:
The only thing that seems to contradict that MIB is William is how harsh he is on Deloris in EP 1.


I don't think that's necessarily a contradiction, more just a possible plot point that needs to be explained. If he is the MIB, he's a lot harsher in general (and presumably this has transferred into his life outside the park given he's the big boss of a foundation rather than the VP mocked by Logan). Whatever happens at the end of the current William storyline may have turned him into a much harsher person.

And I mentioned in the other thread, perhaps the harshness - which is essentially playing the guest's role in that storyline - is intended to awaken Dolores.


The other possibility is that the MiB is actually Logan and his quest in the park is to find out what happened to his friend William all those years ago, assuming William's quest with Dolores ends in a messy death that is covered up. I think it's unlikely and that William looks more like Ed Harris than Logan but that could be the writers messing with our expectations.

This kind of feeds into another reddit theory on the potential double meaning of "host". If the idea is that ultimately these androids are the host bodies for human consciousness to be transferred into (something Arnold might have managed before his death). In this (unlikely) theory, Teddy is what became of William.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:09 am 
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Jay Cee Gee wrote:
Zakar wrote:
The only thing that seems to contradict that tMIB is William is how harsh he is on Deloris in EP 1.


I don't think that's necessarily a contradiction, more just a possible plot point that needs to be explained. If he is the MIB, he's a lot harsher in general (and presumably this has transferred into his life outside the park given he's the big boss of a foundation rather than the VP mocked by Logan). Whatever happens at the end of the current William storyline may have turned him into a much harsher person.

And I mentioned in the other thread, perhaps the harshness - which is essentially playing the guest's role in that storyline - is intended to awaken Dolores.

Is that memory definitely reliable? It may be that Ford wants to keep Ed Harris and Delores separate but can't include him in a storyline because he's a guest so he creates this memory and then updates the software which gives her access to it. It's intended as a subtle change to just breed a bit of antipathy and keep them from going on a mad one together but has unintended consequences.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:13 am 
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alliswell wrote:
Jay Cee Gee wrote:
Zakar wrote:
The only thing that seems to contradict that tMIB is William is how harsh he is on Deloris in EP 1.


I don't think that's necessarily a contradiction, more just a possible plot point that needs to be explained. If he is the MIB, he's a lot harsher in general (and presumably this has transferred into his life outside the park given he's the big boss of a foundation rather than the VP mocked by Logan). Whatever happens at the end of the current William storyline may have turned him into a much harsher person.

And I mentioned in the other thread, perhaps the harshness - which is essentially playing the guest's role in that storyline - is intended to awaken Dolores.

Is that memory definitely reliable? It may be that Ford wants to keep Ed Harris and Delores separate but can't include him in a storyline because he's a guest so he creates this memory and then updates the software which gives her access to it. It's intended as a subtle change to just breed a bit of antipathy and keep them from going on a mad one together but has unintended consequences.


We saw MIB and Dolores interacting in episode 1. He came to the ranch, shot Teddy and dragged her into the barn.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:21 am 
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Jay Cee Gee wrote:
alliswell wrote:
Jay Cee Gee wrote:
Zakar wrote:
The only thing that seems to contradict that tMIB is William is how harsh he is on Deloris in EP 1.


I don't think that's necessarily a contradiction, more just a possible plot point that needs to be explained. If he is the MIB, he's a lot harsher in general (and presumably this has transferred into his life outside the park given he's the big boss of a foundation rather than the VP mocked by Logan). Whatever happens at the end of the current William storyline may have turned him into a much harsher person.

And I mentioned in the other thread, perhaps the harshness - which is essentially playing the guest's role in that storyline - is intended to awaken Dolores.

Is that memory definitely reliable? It may be that Ford wants to keep Ed Harris and Delores separate but can't include him in a storyline because he's a guest so he creates this memory and then updates the software which gives her access to it. It's intended as a subtle change to just breed a bit of antipathy and keep them from going on a mad one together but has unintended consequences.


We saw MIB and Dolores interacting in episode 1. He came to the ranch, shot Teddy and dragged her into the barn.

And we saw Bernard talking to his son and wife. I don't remember episode 1 too well but is that something that definitely happened? If he is William it makes no sense.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:24 am 
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alliswell wrote:
If he is William it makes no sense.


If he is William:

1) We are yet to see what caused such a change in demeanour; and
2) We don't really know what the MIB's quest or motivations are. If he's trying to awaken the hosts it could be a case of ends justifying the means and we still don't know what he did to Dolores in the barn but given her subsequent actions (killing the fly, regaining the ability to shoot) it may well be that the MIB is responsible for her awakening.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:30 am 
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Maybe William gets to the end of his quest, realises it's just a cheap storyline and says fudge it, I'm off to kill robots.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 9:38 am 
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alliswell wrote:
Maybe William gets to the end of his quest, realises it's just a cheap storyline and says f**k it, I'm off to kill robots.

"fudge I spent half the time travelling on a bloody train"


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:04 am 
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le chat wrote:
alliswell wrote:
Maybe William gets to the end of his quest, realises it's just a cheap storyline and says f**k it, I'm off to kill robots.

"f**k I spent half the time travelling on a bloody train"


40k to ride a train and get shot at.

You can get a train from Istanbul to Aleppo for £40.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:36 am 
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village wrote:
We know:
Arnold and Ford started WestWorld with a small team of engineers (according to Ford, who may be an unreliable narrator)

We know:
Arnold died 34 years, 42 days and 7 hours ago (according to Dolores) - i.e. years before Delos and the corporate team became a part of WestWorld
So the theory goes that no one at corporate WestWorld ever met Arnold apart from Ford and hence no one would make the connection to Bernard. It's far from certain I grant you but:

1) That "gap" to the right side of the photo that Ford shows Bernard of "Arnold" looks like it could contain a third person who robo-Bernard is unable to see. We know the other guy is robo-dad from the cabin.
2) 'Bernard Lowe' is an anagram of 'Arnold Weber' - I know we don't know the surname is Weber but it's strangely close and just the sort of trick Nolan likes to play.
3) Arnold was driven by a personal tragedy, which also formed the basis of Bernard's false backstory.


Yeah, nah. Even if no one at corporate WestWorld ever saw the real Arnold, surely there are some pictures of him and a big corporation like Delos would/should know if their lead Behaviorist/programmer was an exact lookalike of a guy that almost destroyed the park some 30 years ago.

I like the missing person on the picture theory though. It seems more feasible to me though that the missing guy is just Bernard himself. Although having said that he does not seem old enough.
Btw., in other cases where the robots weren;t able to see something that was there and said the line: "it looks like nothing to me" the picture itself was not changed, they just "did not compute" it. Whereas in the picture Ford shows to Bernard there is no one there. Also how would Bernard see the background in the space where the missing person is suppose to be standing.

village wrote:

I admit the above are all pretty thin but the biggest pointer I think are the scenes between "Bernard" and Dolores where he talks about letting her gain her freedom if she navigates the maze. They seem (to me) incongruous with the present day Bernard, especially if we now know he is Ford's tool. The conversation also seems to take place in the basement lab of the cabin, which Bernard is not supposed to have known about until last episode.


I admit i've missed it that the conversation took place in the basement lab. It doesn't make much sense to me though. It could not have been Robot Bernard. It could also not have taken place 30 years ago as Bernard didn't age at all.

Is it possible that there is a 3rd timeframe of just few years before present where Bernard is just some previous "Theresa-like" human character who found out too much and got 'replaced' by Ford.

village wrote:
I still like the possibility that Ford is a robot, created by Arnold at the very start who first completed the maze (i.e. gained self-awareness) and with delicious irony, killed his master and turned the tables by creating an Arnold clone to serve him as the the legend of the maze might describe:
Quote:
The maze itself is the sum of a man's life. The choices he makes, the dreams he hangs onto. And there at the center there's a legendary man who'd been killed over and over again countless times. He always clawed his way back to life. The man returned for the last time and vanquished all his oppressors in a tireless fury. Built a house, and around that house he built a maze so complicated only he could navigate through it. I reckon he'd seen enough of fighting.


Ford's control of the park seems beyond human capacity to me. Everyone else walks around with futuristic ipads to control and interact with things and he just waves his hand and shuts down everything. The problem with my theory is the picture above shows a young Ford - which seems to prove he is human.


I don't think Ford aging is a problem at all. He seems to have a private lab and robot production equipment in that basement. If so he could easily just replace himself with a slightly older version of himself every couple of years or so.


Last edited by pigaaaa on Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:41 am 
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alliswell wrote:
Jay Cee Gee wrote:
alliswell wrote:
Jay Cee Gee wrote:
Zakar wrote:
The only thing that seems to contradict that tMIB is William is how harsh he is on Deloris in EP 1.


I don't think that's necessarily a contradiction, more just a possible plot point that needs to be explained. If he is the MIB, he's a lot harsher in general (and presumably this has transferred into his life outside the park given he's the big boss of a foundation rather than the VP mocked by Logan). Whatever happens at the end of the current William storyline may have turned him into a much harsher person.

And I mentioned in the other thread, perhaps the harshness - which is essentially playing the guest's role in that storyline - is intended to awaken Dolores.

Is that memory definitely reliable? It may be that Ford wants to keep Ed Harris and Delores separate but can't include him in a storyline because he's a guest so he creates this memory and then updates the software which gives her access to it. It's intended as a subtle change to just breed a bit of antipathy and keep them from going on a mad one together but has unintended consequences.


We saw MIB and Dolores interacting in episode 1. He came to the ranch, shot Teddy and dragged her into the barn.

And we saw Bernard talking to his son and wife. I don't remember episode 1 too well but is that something that definitely happened? If he is William it makes no sense.

Implanted memories ;) Every robot has some backstory he belives. Means nothing.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:43 am 
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pigaaaa wrote:

I like the missing person on the picture theory though. It seems more feasible to me though that the missing guy is just Bernard himself. Although having said that he does not seem old enough.
Btw., in other cases where the robots weren;t able to see something that was there and said the line: "it looks like nothing to me" the picture itself was not changed, they just "did not compute" it. Whereas in the picture Ford shows to Bernard there is no one there. Also how would Bernard see the background in the space where the missing person is suppose to be standing.


Apparently in that episode where Bernard discovered Ford's robo family living in the cabin, the door wasn't depicted at all so there may have been an instance where we were shown host perception filters previously.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:44 am 
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pigaaaa wrote:
Implanted memories ;) Every robot has some backstory he belives. Means nothing.


I think he means we were shown the memories as a scene, not a dream or anything else. Though we were also shown Teddy's memories of killing people with Wyatt which we know is just invented back story.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 11:55 am 
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Hey all,

I only just read this today and have to say I must have been sleep walking through the series so far to not have picked up on so many great details, in particular the dual time lines. You can always count on the PR crowd for some savvy analysis.

The William is The Man in Black theory ring true for me. I may have missed this particular extrapolation already but I think that his MVP privileged status makes perfect sense to this theory if you consider that it has already been revealed that William was marrying into a powerful family (Delos) who according to Logan (whose last name is purposefully omitted) are looking at buying the park. That totally fits the timeline for the post catastrophe buyout of the park.

The William/Man in Black dialogue crossover stuff is all there I feel. The place bringing out the true you and not having a purpose before etc. Dolores is going to get reset and forget him. William will leave Westworld and marry the rich and powerful wife which gives him the pass for life to keep coming back to the park for 30 years.

As for Arnold being Bernard. I agree. What I think though is that Arnold was never a human in any capacity. He was Ford's prototype that helped him build the park. I think that the level of intellect required to achieve what they did could only have been done by a computer. He may have created a son and something that happened to him caused the awakening of the rebellious train of thought.
Ford wiped his mind (That being his death)

The maze could be where his mind is backed up to. The map looks like a brain and is found in the skull of a host. Perhaps the maze is Arnold's contingency for being wiped.

I hope that Arnold doesn't turn out to be a stupid acronym. Artificial, Robotic Narrative Lifeform Designer.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 8:03 am 
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Here's a question I have. Why do the support staff wear those containment suits when they come in to clear up or grab a host? It's obviously not to do with toxicity / radiation since the guests are unprotected. Why not just simple overalls / boiler suit?

And for those who like anagrams: Dolores Abernathy is an anagram of "Arnold base theory"

Also something to watch out for, Dr Ford appears to have a wedding ring in some scenes and not in others.

Ring off

Spoiler: show
Image


Ring on

Spoiler: show
Image


He has his ring off in most of the scenes I've tracked down so far. This is also the only scene in which he is not wearing the waistcoat and pocket-watch as far as I can tell. Now in inception, DiCaprio's character had a wedding ring that appeared and disappeared from scene to scene depending on whether it was a dream or not. The Nolans love these little clues. So I wonder if we have seen Ford in more than one time frame (interacting with Arnold not Bernard?) or whether there is more than one Ford in the park. It seems unlikely to be merely sloppy costume management.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 9:52 am 
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It's going to be interesting to see how Bernard just slots back into his job, unless I misheard Ford told him to go back to work? But surely the exec is still around and would notice? Not to mention it being a pretty shoddy organisation if all his privileges weren't revoked immediately (although I suppose Ford would be able to override that).


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 9:59 am 
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CM11 wrote:
It's going to be interesting to see how Bernard just slots back into his job, unless I misheard Ford told him to go back to work? But surely the exec is still around and would notice? Not to mention it being a pretty shoddy organisation if all his privileges weren't revoked immediately (although I suppose Ford would be able to override that).


I expect Robot Theresa is going to engineer a situation to get him back in.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 10:03 am 
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Jeff the Bear wrote:
CM11 wrote:
It's going to be interesting to see how Bernard just slots back into his job, unless I misheard Ford told him to go back to work? But surely the exec is still around and would notice? Not to mention it being a pretty shoddy organisation if all his privileges weren't revoked immediately (although I suppose Ford would be able to override that).


I expect Robot Theresa is going to engineer a situation to get him back in.


Ah, good point.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 11:29 am 
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CM11 wrote:
Jeff the Bear wrote:
CM11 wrote:
It's going to be interesting to see how Bernard just slots back into his job, unless I misheard Ford told him to go back to work? But surely the exec is still around and would notice? Not to mention it being a pretty shoddy organisation if all his privileges weren't revoked immediately (although I suppose Ford would be able to override that).


I expect Robot Theresa is going to engineer a situation to get him back in.


Ah, good point.


I think the two of them breaking off ford's shackles will be a driving plot point


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:15 pm 
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tabascoboy wrote:
freewheelan wrote:
Zakar wrote:
Brazil wrote:
Surely a problem with the different timelines theory is that if Bernard is constant across the two of them, tech for the park has basically remained the same for 30 years whilst dealing with exponentially complex programming?

It'd be an incredibly bold narrative device to try and pull off if that's what they're doing, mind.


That's my problem with it to. How have none of thr staff noticed their colleague named Bernard failing to age for 35 years?


How many colleagues dream of electric sheep?

Are friends electric?

DId yours break down?


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:17 pm 
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village wrote:
Here's a question I have. Why do the support staff wear those containment suits when they come in to clear up or grab a host? It's obviously not to do with toxicity / radiation since the guests are unprotected. Why not just simple overalls / boiler suit?

And for those who like anagrams: Dolores Abernathy is an anagram of "Arnold base theory"

Also something to watch out for, Dr Ford appears to have a wedding ring in some scenes and not in others.

Ring off

Spoiler: show
Image


Ring on

Spoiler: show
Image


He has his ring off in most of the scenes I've tracked down so far. This is also the only scene in which he is not wearing the waistcoat and pocket-watch as far as I can tell. Now in inception, DiCaprio's character had a wedding ring that appeared and disappeared from scene to scene depending on whether it was a dream or not. The Nolans love these little clues. So I wonder if we have seen Ford in more than one time frame (interacting with Arnold not Bernard?) or whether there is more than one Ford in the park. It seems unlikely to be merely sloppy costume management.


M Cheika's short-sighted and rather pensive brother.


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