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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:30 am 
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Duff Paddy wrote:
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Peteray wrote:
It's losing me. So good first season. So hard to understand, let alone get any enjoyment from following it now. Probably click-bait now for me.

That's it. The show has gone the way of Lost.


It reminds me of Lost in that they dangled a potentially incredible storyline in front of us before disappearing up their own hole. Watching an elite swat team soldier decline a free shot at a robot who had just murdered most of his unit in favour of approaching her and trying to chat her up - well basically we should rename jumping the shark now as chatting up the host, it was that bad.


Who said they were an elite team of swat? We're they not just better private security? Facing robots with insane pain tolerance, strength etc and their skills increased to max...That's not the part I had suspension of belief issues with.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:33 am 
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Other than Teddy (and Trevor from GTA V, but he's not with Dolores), we've not actually seen that the hosts have had their skills increased.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:41 am 
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Jay Cee Gee wrote:
Other than Teddy (and Trevor from GTA V, but he's not with Dolores), we've not actually seen that the hosts have had their skills increased.


Maeve did it, and if Dolores did it for teddy... why would they not do it for all? Just because you didn't actively see it? It's completly illogical, if they had the means of course they would increase their skills.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:01 am 
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Zakar wrote:
Jay Cee Gee wrote:
Other than Teddy (and Trevor from GTA V, but he's not with Dolores), we've not actually seen that the hosts have had their skills increased.


Maeve did it, and if Dolores did it for teddy... why would they not do it for all? Just because you didn't actively see it? It's completly illogical, if they had the means of course they would increase their skills.


I'm not saying it hasn't been done to the other hosts, but given how major a plot point it was with Teddy (and only being done cause he was too merciful and with the assistance of a human), I don't think we should just assume it was done to everyone else off screen. And Teddy seems to be a better shot than the other hosts.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:14 am 
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Jay Cee Gee wrote:
Zakar wrote:
Jay Cee Gee wrote:
Other than Teddy (and Trevor from GTA V, but he's not with Dolores), we've not actually seen that the hosts have had their skills increased.


Maeve did it, and if Dolores did it for teddy... why would they not do it for all? Just because you didn't actively see it? It's completly illogical, if they had the means of course they would increase their skills.


I'm not saying it hasn't been done to the other hosts, but given how major a plot point it was with Teddy (and only being done cause he was too merciful and with the assistance of a human), I don't think we should just assume it was done to everyone else off screen. And Teddy seems to be a better shot than the other hosts.


The plot point with teddy was that they were changing his personality not his skills.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:20 am 
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Zakar wrote:
Jay Cee Gee wrote:
Zakar wrote:
Jay Cee Gee wrote:
Other than Teddy (and Trevor from GTA V, but he's not with Dolores), we've not actually seen that the hosts have had their skills increased.


Maeve did it, and if Dolores did it for teddy... why would they not do it for all? Just because you didn't actively see it? It's completly illogical, if they had the means of course they would increase their skills.


I'm not saying it hasn't been done to the other hosts, but given how major a plot point it was with Teddy (and only being done cause he was too merciful and with the assistance of a human), I don't think we should just assume it was done to everyone else off screen. And Teddy seems to be a better shot than the other hosts.


The plot point with teddy was that they were changing his personality not his skills.


Yeah, but my point was it was the only behavioral mod we've seen Dolores' bunch do, and it was presented as a big deal - sure that's cause Teddy is an actual character and there was a betrayal involved, but regardless it was shown as major enough that I don't think we'd assume it was done off screen to everyone else.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:34 am 
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Jay Cee Gee wrote:
Zakar wrote:
Jay Cee Gee wrote:
Zakar wrote:
Jay Cee Gee wrote:
Other than Teddy (and Trevor from GTA V, but he's not with Dolores), we've not actually seen that the hosts have had their skills increased.


Maeve did it, and if Dolores did it for teddy... why would they not do it for all? Just because you didn't actively see it? It's completly illogical, if they had the means of course they would increase their skills.


I'm not saying it hasn't been done to the other hosts, but given how major a plot point it was with Teddy (and only being done cause he was too merciful and with the assistance of a human), I don't think we should just assume it was done to everyone else off screen. And Teddy seems to be a better shot than the other hosts.


The plot point with teddy was that they were changing his personality not his skills.


Yeah, but my point was it was the only behavioral mod we've seen Dolores' bunch do, and it was presented as a big deal - sure that's cause Teddy is an actual character and there was a betrayal involved, but regardless it was shown as major enough that I don't think we'd assume it was done off screen to everyone else.


We've also seen her bring hosts back to life with it. I'm definitely in the camp that reckons she upgraded skills on everyone, but probably not personality (except for Teddy).


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:18 am 
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Anonymous. wrote:
The problem with shows like this is if the final episode is not written before the screening of the first it all just becomes a load of drivel written to keep the series going. Two episodes into season two the decision was made to continue into season 3. Season 3 no doubt will also be a load of drivel with no logical and natural end as they will no doubt hope to be taken up for a season 4.



When I was 11 my English teacher taught us 'write the ending first'. Its fking annoying and also clumsily shoe-horning things in now to make the ending work is amatuerish.

I'm still interested though but mainly to see if they can make it make sense in the end. Despite what Ford said, I wonder is the whole thing going to end up having been Bernard's idea from the start, his route to immortality. Maybe he even created Ford (but set it up so Ford thinks he did it all).

I would almost respect them though it they ended with 'it was all dream', just for the epic fanboi meltdown.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:26 am 
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MrJonno wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
The problem with shows like this is if the final episode is not written before the screening of the first it all just becomes a load of drivel written to keep the series going. Two episodes into season two the decision was made to continue into season 3. Season 3 no doubt will also be a load of drivel with no logical and natural end as they will no doubt hope to be taken up for a season 4.



When I was 11 my English teacher taught us 'write the ending first'. Its fking annoying and also clumsily shoe-horning things in now to make the ending work is amatuerish.

I'm still interested though but mainly to see if they can make it make sense in the end. Despite what Ford said, I wonder is the whole thing going to end up having been Bernard's idea from the start, his route to immortality. Maybe he even created Ford (but set it up so Ford thinks he did it all).

I would almost respect them though it they ended with 'it was all dream', just for the epic fanboi meltdown.


It was all a dream is very possible, just make out that it was all in a cradle, and there's multiple cradles running multiple "realities".


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:12 pm 
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Raggs wrote:
MrJonno wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
The problem with shows like this is if the final episode is not written before the screening of the first it all just becomes a load of drivel written to keep the series going. Two episodes into season two the decision was made to continue into season 3. Season 3 no doubt will also be a load of drivel with no logical and natural end as they will no doubt hope to be taken up for a season 4.



When I was 11 my English teacher taught us 'write the ending first'. Its fking annoying and also clumsily shoe-horning things in now to make the ending work is amatuerish.

I'm still interested though but mainly to see if they can make it make sense in the end. Despite what Ford said, I wonder is the whole thing going to end up having been Bernard's idea from the start, his route to immortality. Maybe he even created Ford (but set it up so Ford thinks he did it all).

I would almost respect them though it they ended with 'it was all dream', just for the epic fanboi meltdown.


It was all a dream is very possible, just make out that it was all in a cradle, and there's multiple cradles running multiple "realities".

...in an infinite number of universes.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:17 pm 
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Raggs wrote:

We've also seen her bring hosts back to life with it. I'm definitely in the camp that reckons she upgraded skills on everyone, but probably not personality (except for Teddy).


:thumbup:


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:23 pm 
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MrJonno wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
The problem with shows like this is if the final episode is not written before the screening of the first it all just becomes a load of drivel written to keep the series going. Two episodes into season two the decision was made to continue into season 3. Season 3 no doubt will also be a load of drivel with no logical and natural end as they will no doubt hope to be taken up for a season 4.



When I was 11 my English teacher taught us 'write the ending first'. Its fking annoying and also clumsily shoe-horning things in now to make the ending work is amatuerish.

I'm still interested though but mainly to see if they can make it make sense in the end. Despite what Ford said, I wonder is the whole thing going to end up having been Bernard's idea from the start, his route to immortality. Maybe he even created Ford (but set it up so Ford thinks he did it all).

I would almost respect them though it they ended with 'it was all dream', just for the epic fanboi meltdown.



Perhaps they have been replacing people in the real world and there are more 'Bernard'' in positions of power and influence in the normal world.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:43 pm 
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The Committee of 300 Bernards?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:50 pm 
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Does all this sound like watchable, entertaining TV? No. It makes GOT look as simple as ABC. I said it was losing me, and I am even more confused after this episode. I'll probably keep watching though, in the hope of ........................ clarity.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:53 pm 
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Peteray wrote:
Does all this sound like watchable, entertaining TV? No. It makes GOT look as simple as ABC. I said it was losing me, and I am even more confused after this episode. I'll probably keep watching though, in the hope of ........................ clarity.


GOT is harder to keep track of in my mind, since there's far more factions, and it can be entire episodes before you get back to someones story. Westworld is a bit complex, but far from impossible in my mind.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:03 pm 
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Raggs wrote:
Peteray wrote:
Does all this sound like watchable, entertaining TV? No. It makes GOT look as simple as ABC. I said it was losing me, and I am even more confused after this episode. I'll probably keep watching though, in the hope of ........................ clarity.


GOT is harder to keep track of in my mind, since there's far more factions, and it can be entire episodes before you get back to someones story. Westworld is a bit complex, but far from impossible in my mind.


It is entirely possible of course, that I'm just dumb, but a couple of good UK universities seemed to think I had a few brains. It just seems a bit like a multi-level, multi-dimensional, psychotic, hypochondriac, claustrophobic, bloody car-park ................. in the sky! I'm so confused :roll:


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:09 pm 
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Peteray wrote:
Raggs wrote:
Peteray wrote:
Does all this sound like watchable, entertaining TV? No. It makes GOT look as simple as ABC. I said it was losing me, and I am even more confused after this episode. I'll probably keep watching though, in the hope of ........................ clarity.


GOT is harder to keep track of in my mind, since there's far more factions, and it can be entire episodes before you get back to someones story. Westworld is a bit complex, but far from impossible in my mind.


It is entirely possible of course, that I'm just dumb, but a couple of good UK universities seemed to think I had a few brains. It just seems a bit like a multi-level, multi-dimensional, psychotic, hypochondriac, claustrophobic, bloody car-park ................. in the sky! I'm so confused :roll:


Oh it's not completely straight forward by any means, but it's all basically focused around the park, with a few key players to keep track of. GoT for me at least, has a ton of players, in different locations with different story arcs, that sometimes never interact, whilst also having some timeline issues. I guess because Westworld is deliberately trying to confuse with the timeline stuff (William/man in black, Bernard/Arnold, Bernard/Memories etc) I actually find it a bit easier, I'm not supposed to understand everything, and the story leads me through, giving me points at which it becomes clear as to what was actually going on before. GoT mostly seems to expect me to keep track of all the different factions and their offspring, the interactions each causes on the reasonably fluid alliances, whilst spread over several major stories that have only just started to come together a little.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:10 pm 
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Raggs wrote:
Peteray wrote:
Raggs wrote:
Peteray wrote:
Does all this sound like watchable, entertaining TV? No. It makes GOT look as simple as ABC. I said it was losing me, and I am even more confused after this episode. I'll probably keep watching though, in the hope of ........................ clarity.


GOT is harder to keep track of in my mind, since there's far more factions, and it can be entire episodes before you get back to someones story. Westworld is a bit complex, but far from impossible in my mind.


It is entirely possible of course, that I'm just dumb, but a couple of good UK universities seemed to think I had a few brains. It just seems a bit like a multi-level, multi-dimensional, psychotic, hypochondriac, claustrophobic, bloody car-park ................. in the sky! I'm so confused :roll:


Oh it's not completely straight forward by any means, but it's all basically focused around the park, with a few key players to keep track of. GoT for me at least, has a ton of players, in different locations with different story arcs, that sometimes never interact, whilst also having some timeline issues. I guess because Westworld is deliberately trying to confuse with the timeline stuff (William/man in black, Bernard/Arnold, Bernard/Memories etc) I actually find it a bit easier, I'm not supposed to understand everything, and the story leads me through, giving me points at which it becomes clear as to what was actually going on before. GoT mostly seems to expect me to keep track of all the different factions and their offspring, the interactions each causes on the reasonably fluid alliances, whilst spread over several major stories that have only just started to come together a little.


Egzakery :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:16 pm 
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Jay Cee Gee wrote:
Zakar wrote:
Yeah, but my point was it was the only behavioral mod we've seen Dolores' bunch do, and it was presented as a big deal - sure that's cause Teddy is an actual character and there was a betrayal involved, but regardless it was shown as major enough that I don't think we'd assume it was done off screen to everyone else.


We've also seen her bring hosts back to life with it. I'm definitely in the camp that reckons she upgraded skills on everyone, but probably not personality (except for Teddy).


There is also the question of how well Wyatt's cult soldiers were kitted out in the first place, if we presume Ford was planning for the war ahead.

Never quite got why Teddy, the guest girl and sheriff's bullets all had no effect on them in Season 1, which had me thinking whether they were ever under the cradle's control or partly off grid like his happy host family living in the log cabin.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:25 pm 
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Just watches s2 e8. Probably the best episode thus far in the season, and I'd wager that it would be up there with one of the best episodes over the entire 2 seasons, well acted, well shot, well scored, explains a few things. Brilliant.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:40 pm 
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Bullettyme wrote:
Just watches s2 e8. Probably the best episode thus far in the season, and I'd wager that it would be up there with one of the best episodes over the entire 2 seasons, well acted, well shot, well scored, explains a few things. Brilliant.


Anything with the Cool Irish Injun from Fargo is always going to work


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:50 pm 
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I didn't realise he was Irish too, that is indeed cool.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:29 pm 
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Didn’t realise there was a thread for this, last episode was just unreal, I normally half watch it while arsing about on my phone, didn’t touch the phone during this episode as I didn’t want to miss a second, the screen presence of the Indian lad was mesmerising.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:51 pm 
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Bullettyme wrote:
I didn't realise he was Irish too, that is indeed cool.



Not just Irish, but proud of it

Quote:
Yeah, well I’m proud of my Irish heritage just as I’m proud of my Native heritage. I’m proud of both.


https://uproxx.com/tv/zahn-mcclarnon-ha ... interview/


I now want him to win Westworld with Thandie Newton to come in second


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:53 pm 
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After that amazing episode he's winning in our hearts and may even have the moral victory sown up too.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:04 pm 
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Again, latest episode absolute garbage.

I do not care to meet new characters that do not materially advance the plot.

Are they simple over budget on their actors salaries and they are giving feature episodes to everyone they can think of?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:34 pm 
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Sonny Blount wrote:
Again, latest episode absolute garbage.

I do not care to meet new characters that do not materially advance the plot.

Are they simple over budget on their actors salaries and they are giving feature episodes to everyone they can think of?


New characters? Have you even watched the show? Aketcha has been a part of the show since Season 1 (with Maeve having flashbacks etc). And that episode didn't materially advance the plot....it explained the whole premise. Ake is a tool of Ford and he has a higher purpose. Also Maeve is the goddamn wi-fi queen.

Personally, I thought that was one of the best episodes of TV I have watched in a long, long time. It completely drew me in. To me it was perfectly acted and shot and the ending...yeah, that was so, so good.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:55 am 
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Thomas wrote:
Sonny Blount wrote:
Again, latest episode absolute garbage.

I do not care to meet new characters that do not materially advance the plot.

Are they simple over budget on their actors salaries and they are giving feature episodes to everyone they can think of?


New characters? Have you even watched the show? Aketcha has been a part of the show since Season 1 (with Maeve having flashbacks etc). And that episode didn't materially advance the plot....it explained the whole premise.


Yes I've watched every episode of the show and the first season twice.

It was a new focus on Aketcha and we have not met his family before.

I distrust it like the episode on the Samurais, introduced and discarded simply to bloat out another episode.

Quote:
Ake is a tool of Ford and he has a higher purpose.


Which is plot wise absolutely nothing.

Quote:
Also Maeve is the goddamn wi-fi queen.


Not new and boring.

The whole 10 episodes so far this season could have been done in 1 episode.

Quote:
Personally, I thought that was one of the best episodes of TV I have watched in a long, long time. It completely drew me in. To me it was perfectly acted and shot and the ending...yeah, that was so, so good.


It was weak sauce. The premise behind the characters motivations are weak sauce.


Thankfully, my friend has The Expanse season 3 and that show actually scales through the seasons.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:07 am 
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We now know who Aketcha is and what his motivation is. The fact he's running a mysterious sect of other Ghost Nation warriors who Ford has told will need to stop the Deathbringer (Dolores) means a hell of a lot. They're saving both hosts and guests.

The whole story of his family may seem like pap to you but it's given us an understanding that the hosts can remember ALL of their previous lives and goes some way to explaining their savagery towards guests. It was heartbreaking.

The bit towards the end with Maeve was great. He wasn't talking to the little girl, he was talking to Maeve. He's going to look after her daughter. Now Maeve doesn't need to waste time searching for her girl, she's going to go on a rampage.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:16 am 
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Thomas wrote:
We now know who Aketcha is and what his motivation is. The fact he's running a mysterious sect of other Ghost Nation warriors who Ford has told will need to stop the Deathbringer (Dolores) means a hell of a lot. They're saving both hosts and guests.

The whole story of his family may seem like pap to you but it's given us an understanding that the hosts can remember ALL of their previous lives and goes some way to explaining their savagery towards guests. It was heartbreaking.

The bit towards the end with Maeve was great. He wasn't talking to the little girl, he was talking to Maeve. He's going to look after her daughter. Now Maeve doesn't need to waste time searching for her girl, she's going to go on a rampage.



Hosts remembering trauma from past 'lives' for emotive effect has been going on since episode 2 of season 1 or thereabouts right?

So we're at hosts and guests killing various and sundry with no stakes apparent for the viewer, Ford uploaded to the cradle, and certain actors trying to obtain a maguffin (access to data). As we were at the final episode of season 1.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:21 am 
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I just wish this was all leading to a definite conclusion at the end of this season instead of going on for another one...and then maybe another and another.

I can fully understand why this episode was appreciated ( and having read reviews which explain the story's significance in terms of the whole ) but it didn't do a lot for me no matter how well acted and directed. I just cant really engage and get into this series at all even though I have tried. If season 3 is the final one I'll grind it out but otherwise it's surely just going to be rinse and repeat ad infinitum until the network pulls the plug and they're forced to wrap it up.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:12 am 
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tabascoboy wrote:
I just wish this was all leading to a definite conclusion at the end of this season instead of going on for another one...and then maybe another and another.

I can fully understand why this episode was appreciated ( and having read reviews which explain the story's significance in terms of the whole ) but it didn't do a lot for me no matter how well acted and directed. I just cant really engage and get into this series at all even though I have tried. If season 3 is the final one I'll grind it out but otherwise it's surely just going to be rinse and repeat ad infinitum until the network pulls the plug and they're forced to wrap it up.


I think it's got a lifespan of three series realistically. There have been a lot of comparisons to Lost, but at least with Westworld there's a thematic and structural consistency across the series that suggests there's a coherent arc to the story rather than the writers making it up on the hoof.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:29 pm 
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THis is a good up to date summary. The Arnold bit at the end should have been put in earlier but other than that it's good. Has spoilers for yesterday's episode if you haven't seen it.

https://screenrant.com/westworld-season ... explained/


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:51 pm 
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Brazil wrote:
I think it's got a lifespan of three series realistically.

You could very well be right, but it's hard to imagine it not suffering the same fate as so many other US TV shows. As long as it's still making money, they'll keep making more series, regardless of the effect that has on the quality.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2018 10:54 pm 
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Finally up to date with this. That last episode (8?, the one that explains loads) was good. I certainly appreciated some direct "this is what's happening" after jumping all over the place with timelines etc.

Still confused as hell, though. :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:20 pm 
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Just watched the last episode, not going to leave any spoilers here as I guess most folk haven't seen it yet but fark me! If there's a third season I'm out...


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:29 pm 
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screw this shite im out.

That last episode cleared up nothing and im now more confused than I have been at any stage.



Done with this.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:11 pm 
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I was pretty underwhelmed with that final episode.

So now the Man in Black timeline is a completely other time in the distant future and/or another world.

I hate Dolores. Really hate her. Even the whole mannerisms and cliches she comes out with. They even had the Hale/Dolores host speak that shite. And the whole "not killing Bernard" thing was a cop out imo, anyway, sets it up for future seasons.

Meh. See you next season.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:53 pm 
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THat was really unsatisfying, what a crap reveal, wasn't really a reveal. It was a mess.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:03 pm 
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Posts: 36982
Location: For Wales the Welsh and Leinster
The lack of flesh this season was a minor irritant compared with with the schizoid time frame and psuedo-intellectual paradigm shifts.
Get fecked HBO.


I will of course watch the next season :blush:


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