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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:39 pm 
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I wish I'd never read this thread.

I was happily going along enjoying Westworld, and now it looks like I've missed half of what is going on. I mean parallel timelines? Never crossed my mind.

I suppose I'll just have to rewatch it.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:41 pm 
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Edinburgh01 wrote:
I wish I'd never read this thread.

I was happily going along enjoying Westworld, and now it looks like I've missed half of what is going on. I mean parallel timelines? Never crossed my mind.

I suppose I'll just have to rewatch it.


You're not alone, and it's not confirmed.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:48 pm 
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Zakar wrote:
Edinburgh01 wrote:
I wish I'd never read this thread.

I was happily going along enjoying Westworld, and now it looks like I've missed half of what is going on. I mean parallel timelines? Never crossed my mind.

I suppose I'll just have to rewatch it.


You're not alone, and it's not confirmed.


But I have probably missed things as my level of analysis does not much beyond 'I wonder if that's a body double?'


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 1:13 pm 
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Edinburgh01 wrote:
Zakar wrote:
Edinburgh01 wrote:
I wish I'd never read this thread.

I was happily going along enjoying Westworld, and now it looks like I've missed half of what is going on. I mean parallel timelines? Never crossed my mind.

I suppose I'll just have to rewatch it.


You're not alone, and it's not confirmed.


But I have probably missed things as my level of analysis does not much beyond 'I wonder if that's a body double?'



I'm the same. I do enough analysis at work, I'm not deeply analysing tv shows as I watch them.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 12:45 am 
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These theories are great. However, can anyone theorise on the significance of the boy being able to lie to Ford? Is the ghost in the machine catching up with god?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 12:57 am 
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my mate has a theory that ford kills people then brings them back to life as hosts


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 12:58 am 
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le chat wrote:
my mate has a theory that ford kills people then brings them back to life as hosts


To work in the park, or in general?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:11 am 
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Jeff the Bear wrote:
le chat wrote:
my mate has a theory that ford kills people then brings them back to life as hosts


To work in the park, or in general?

I will have to ask him that. So we think the lady that Bernard killed will be back, as it looked like he was making a host down there. And then she will be working for him against the mixed race girl.

He also thought Bernard may be Arnold but I said to him that I don't think that is likely


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:23 am 
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le chat wrote:
Jeff the Bear wrote:
le chat wrote:
my mate has a theory that ford kills people then brings them back to life as hosts


To work in the park, or in general?

I will have to ask him that. So we think the lady that Bernard killed will be back, as it looked like he was making a host down there. And then she will be working for him against the mixed race girl.

He also thought Bernard may be Arnold but I said to him that I don't think that is likely


Well I'm firmly in the Bernard = Robot Arnold camp.

The only slight issue I have with the notion that Theresa-bot will suddenly come into existence is that it's suggested within the show that it takes a significant amount of effort to create new robots. As such, if it does come to pass, it may mean that Ford was planning to kill her all along.

And the reason I asked the question above was that if an exact double of Dave from Accounting was to suddenly appear in the park as a cowboy host, it may well raise suspicions, but the flipside goes back to my paragraph above...how easy it is to mimic a real human and fool other humans who knew the person when they were still alive?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 2:45 am 
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Jeff the Bear wrote:
le chat wrote:
Jeff the Bear wrote:
le chat wrote:
my mate has a theory that ford kills people then brings them back to life as hosts


To work in the park, or in general?

I will have to ask him that. So we think the lady that Bernard killed will be back, as it looked like he was making a host down there. And then she will be working for him against the mixed race girl.

He also thought Bernard may be Arnold but I said to him that I don't think that is likely


Well I'm firmly in the Bernard = Robot Arnold camp.

The only slight issue I have with the notion that Theresa-bot will suddenly come into existence is that it's suggested within the show that it takes a significant amount of effort to create new robots. As such, if it does come to pass, it may mean that Ford was planning to kill her all along.

And the reason I asked the question above was that if an exact double of Dave from Accounting was to suddenly appear in the park as a cowboy host, it may well raise suspicions, but the flipside goes back to my paragraph above...how easy it is to mimic a real human and fool other humans who knew the person when they were still alive?

I have just thought of something else, early on in the series Bernard was curious about one of her facial expressions and wanted to mimic it. Well that guarentees it for me. I think Ford is the master of these things so won't be farfetched that he can completely fabricate his own ones


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:32 am 
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Right, I'm onto the next episode, so don't read on unless you want to read spoilers...






















...so it appears the Bernard = Robot Arnold theory is hanging on by a thread. Ford said he made him to help him create better hosts (after Arnold topped himself/got killed by Ford). And unless I read the scene wrong, and contrary to what I thought was his viewpoint, it seemed to suggest that Ford does indeed believe that the hosts are capable of sentience on a par with humans, he just doesn't give a fudge.

More good backstory on the MiB, and it's now starting to tie together with the other strands of the story (Maeve's). Although, the theory that he is in it to unleash his one true love of Delores seems to have taken a hit given his back story.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:23 pm 
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Yeah a few fan theories look shaky after that.

Edit: But the two timelines theory was probably confirmed by the appearance of the robot William met at his orientation at the Wyatt ambush. MiB's quip about thinking she had been decommissioned years ago also seems like a nod to the fact he is William.

Also, the MiB talks of "30 years of marriage" ending with his wife's death - prompting his return a year before (based on Maeve being madam for about a year per the techs) and if the 2 timelines theory is correct, William's story is at the park 30 year earlier, shortly before marrying the company owner's daughter.

Did we see a flash of Bernard killing Elsie or was that supposed to be someone else from the more distant past Ford had him bump off?

I think Hale is going to regret her choice of re-animated livestock.

The implication of the flashback to 35 years + seemed to be Dolores went loopy and shot up the town then topped herself. It certainly looked to me though like the place Teddy remembers carrying out the massacre with Wyatt in.

I can't help thinking that we will see Wyatt in the next couple of episodes (probably next week) and it will be a shock because it won't be the bearded man of Teddy's memory.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:39 pm 
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Did we see a flash of Bernard killing Elsie or was that supposed to be someone else from the more distant past Ford had him bump off?


According to the interwebz, it was Elsie.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:42 pm 
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Well I don't think Thersea is coming back as everyone knows she's croaked.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:46 pm 
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True Blue wrote:
Well I don't think Thersea is coming back as everyone knows she's croaked.


Yep, that was another short lived theory that bit the dust.

The whole Bernard bizzo is still straining credibility. Ford's chat with him seems to suggest that he was created not long after Arnold croaked...but that would make him somewhere between 20-30 years old, and surely someone would have noticed that he hasn't aged a day in that time.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:46 pm 
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I do wonder if Elsie may not be dead - may be a fake out.

The William = MIB theory had a few clues thrown in. MIB recognising the blonde host (the same one who inducted William) and noting she'd been at the park for ages. May just be a red herring as Ford would have repurposed hosts for the new narrative.

William & all the dead hosts disappearing/reappearing does suggest that Dolores is glitching and retracing her past steps though.

The thing about Teddy remembering shooting all those people with Wyatt in that town - that never actually happened, it's just Teddy's new back story. But Ford seems to have based that on something that actually happened - just not with Teddy. Maybe it was Dolores - so who does that make Wyatt?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:05 am 
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village wrote:
[...]

Edit: But the two timelines theory was probably confirmed by the appearance of the robot William met at his orientation at the Wyatt ambush. MiB's quip about thinking she had been decommissioned years ago also seems like a nod to the fact he is William.

Also, the MiB talks of "30 years of marriage" ending with his wife's death - prompting his return a year before (based on Maeve being madam for about a year per the techs) and if the 2 timelines theory is correct, William's story is at the park 30 year earlier, shortly before marrying the company owner's daughter.


I'm still not buying it. As far as I remember it happening was:
1. Dolores joins William and Logan on their bounty hunt story only after she escapes from the farm
2. She escapes from the farm after she kills the guy in the barn
3. She kills the guy in the barn only after she remembers her 'enocounter with the MiB' from episode 1
ergo MiB can't be William

There are certainly multiple timeframes interwined, but i dont think they are 30 years apart from each other. I think they are all much closer together, more like separated by just a couple of loops.

I also remember from one of the earlier episodes that there was one of the early hosts pouring a drink for Ford and he was visibly more robotic-like in his movements. You just don't see any of that in any episodes with William, that are supposed to happen in those early years.

village wrote:
Did we see a flash of Bernard killing Elsie or was that supposed to be someone else from the more distant past Ford had him bump off?


yeah i saw that too (edit: Bernard killing Elsie that is)


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:13 am 
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The William storyline is at the very least a few years after Arnold's death (Logan mentions it) and the Buffalo Bill host was one of the first few built ever. There's enough time for the hosts to have been improved in the interim.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:18 am 
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Jay Cee Gee wrote:
The William storyline is at the very least a few years after Arnold's death (Logan mentions it) and the Buffalo Bill host was one of the first few built ever. There's enough time for the hosts to have been improved in the interim.

maybe. That still doesn't make sense of the fact that Dolores joined William after she remembered meeting MiB


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:19 am 
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Jeff the Bear wrote:
True Blue wrote:
Well I don't think Thersea is coming back as everyone knows she's croaked.


Yep, that was another short lived theory that bit the dust.

The whole Bernard bizzo is still straining credibility. Ford's chat with him seems to suggest that he was created not long after Arnold croaked...but that would make him somewhere between 20-30 years old, and surely someone would have noticed that he hasn't aged a day in that time.


Maybe Ford adds some wrinkles from time to time. Plus it's in the future so people may age slower in this era. Ford may be a 100 for all we know.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:22 am 
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pigaaaa wrote:
Jay Cee Gee wrote:
The William storyline is at the very least a few years after Arnold's death (Logan mentions it) and the Buffalo Bill host was one of the first few built ever. There's enough time for the hosts to have been improved in the interim.

maybe. That still doesn't make sense of the fact that Dolores joined William after she remembered meeting MiB


There's no way of knowing if that's actually accurate though.

Here's my theory - if William is MIB, he's dragged Dolores off into the Barn & done whatever which has triggered her awakening. She's then buggered off and is glitching and retracing her steps from 30 years earlier with William (hence him disappearing then reappearing). We have no clue what Dolores was doing before meeting William the first time.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:26 am 
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Jay Cee Gee wrote:
pigaaaa wrote:
Jay Cee Gee wrote:
The William storyline is at the very least a few years after Arnold's death (Logan mentions it) and the Buffalo Bill host was one of the first few built ever. There's enough time for the hosts to have been improved in the interim.

maybe. That still doesn't make sense of the fact that Dolores joined William after she remembered meeting MiB


There's no way of knowing if that's actually accurate though.

Here's my theory - if William is MIB, he's dragged Dolores off into the Barn & done whatever which has triggered her awakening. She's then buggered off and is glitching and retracing her steps from 30 years earlier with William (hence him disappearing then reappearing). We have no clue what Dolores was doing before meeting William the first time.

yes but all her 'glitches' in which she doesn't see William seem to be from some earlier time


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:29 am 
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pigaaaa wrote:
Jay Cee Gee wrote:
pigaaaa wrote:
Jay Cee Gee wrote:
The William storyline is at the very least a few years after Arnold's death (Logan mentions it) and the Buffalo Bill host was one of the first few built ever. There's enough time for the hosts to have been improved in the interim.

maybe. That still doesn't make sense of the fact that Dolores joined William after she remembered meeting MiB


There's no way of knowing if that's actually accurate though.

Here's my theory - if William is MIB, he's dragged Dolores off into the Barn & done whatever which has triggered her awakening. She's then buggered off and is glitching and retracing her steps from 30 years earlier with William (hence him disappearing then reappearing). We have no clue what Dolores was doing before meeting William the first time.

yes but all her 'glitches' in which she doesn't see William seem to be from some earlier time


Not necessarily, I think there's 3 timelines she's seeing. For instance when she sees herself lying drowned, she's seeing a pre William time line where she was part of that ghost nation/town storyline. When she see the river abandoned, she's seeing the present.

Ditto the town, when it's completely abandoned (as she first sees it) that's possibly the present after Ford has excavated it.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:29 am 
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Quote:
I'm still not buying it. As far as I remember it happening was:
1. Dolores joins William and Logan on their bounty hunt story only after she escapes from the farm
2. She escapes from the farm after she kills the guy in the barn
3. She kills the guy in the barn only after she remembers her 'enocounter with the MiB' from episode 1 ergo MiB can't be William


That's how it appears, but it's possible the editing is playing tricks. It's also possible that we are seeing 1 timeline (ie the above happens as you say) but Dolores is imagining / remembering William, triggered by MiB encounter. They've done a good job of leaving clues to make you think but could ultimately go either way.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:38 am 
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village wrote:
Quote:
I'm still not buying it. As far as I remember it happening was:
1. Dolores joins William and Logan on their bounty hunt story only after she escapes from the farm
2. She escapes from the farm after she kills the guy in the barn
3. She kills the guy in the barn only after she remembers her 'enocounter with the MiB' from episode 1 ergo MiB can't be William


That's how it appears, but it's possible the editing is playing tricks. It's also possible that we are seeing 1 timeline (ie the above happens as you say) but Dolores is imagining / remembering William, triggered by MiB encounter. They've done a good job of leaving clues to make you think but could ultimately go either way.

Well, we can certainly agree on this one.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:43 am 
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village wrote:
Quote:
I'm still not buying it. As far as I remember it happening was:
1. Dolores joins William and Logan on their bounty hunt story only after she escapes from the farm
2. She escapes from the farm after she kills the guy in the barn
3. She kills the guy in the barn only after she remembers her 'enocounter with the MiB' from episode 1 ergo MiB can't be William


That's how it appears, but it's possible the editing is playing tricks. It's also possible that we are seeing 1 timeline (ie the above happens as you say) but Dolores is imagining / remembering William, triggered by MiB encounter. They've done a good job of leaving clues to make you think but could ultimately go either way.


I actually laughed when MIB recognised the blonde from William's induction as it was such and obvious nod/dig at the theory. The internet really has changed the way people write tv shows.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:56 am 
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She was also crossing the road with parasol in Dolores's vision and that same clip was part of the video Maeve saw a few weeks back when she was passing through the tech labs.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 1:05 am 
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village wrote:
She was also crossing the road with parasol in Dolores's vision and that same clip was part of the video Maeve saw a few weeks back when she was passing through the tech labs.


He's been around Westworld, and so has she for some time...so there's a decent possibility he's recalling a different time.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 1:09 am 
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Jeff the Bear wrote:
village wrote:
She was also crossing the road with parasol in Dolores's vision and that same clip was part of the video Maeve saw a few weeks back when she was passing through the tech labs.


He's been around Westworld, and so has she for some time...so there's a decent possibility he's recalling a different time.


Well yeah, that's why it could easily be a dig/red herring. But him mentioning it is clearly a nod to that theory (and shows how writers anticipate fan reaction & theories).


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 1:31 am 
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Jay Cee Gee wrote:
Jeff the Bear wrote:
village wrote:
She was also crossing the road with parasol in Dolores's vision and that same clip was part of the video Maeve saw a few weeks back when she was passing through the tech labs.


He's been around Westworld, and so has she for some time...so there's a decent possibility he's recalling a different time.


Well yeah, that's why it could easily be a dig/red herring. But him mentioning it is clearly a nod to that theory (and shows how writers anticipate fan reaction & theories).


Yep. It's a bit creepy when they are seemingly considering fan-service before a fan had even seen the show.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 2:29 am 
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Maybe you have seen the show before. Maybe you have seen it many many times but then they power you down and wipe your memory.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 2:50 am 
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village wrote:
Maybe you have seen the show before. Maybe you have seen it many many times but then they power you down and wipe your memory.


The bastards! :x


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:55 am 
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The Minotaur and the cloaked sword wielding folk are all going to turn out to be hosts that have stepped out of their programming or storyline right?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 11:14 am 
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Jay Cee Gee wrote:
Jeff the Bear wrote:
village wrote:
She was also crossing the road with parasol in Dolores's vision and that same clip was part of the video Maeve saw a few weeks back when she was passing through the tech labs.


He's been around Westworld, and so has she for some time...so there's a decent possibility he's recalling a different time.


Well yeah, that's why it could easily be a dig/red herring. But him mentioning it is clearly a nod to that theory (and shows how writers anticipate fan reaction & theories).


When William met the hot english bird that's now running with the Wyatt outlaw dudes how long ago in storytime was that? 3 days, 3 weeks, how long has William been at the park? Seems a stretch that they suddenly decommissioned her from her greeting role and there she is in the new story line. While it may or may not disprove the 30 year theory, it may suggest that the MiB and William timelines are not concurrent.

Here's a theory of my own, what if Ford is a 'host' or robot designed by Albert, who rebelled and got rid of Albert and then tried to perfect AI - to create a new sentient entity or some such?


Last edited by Stu Wilsons gloves on Tue Nov 22, 2016 11:16 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 11:15 am 
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village wrote:
I can't help thinking that we will see Wyatt in the next couple of episodes (probably next week) and it will be a shock because it won't be the bearded man of Teddy's memory.


I think you're right, and I can't help feeling Wyatt will turn out to be Dolores. Although I don't know how that will work exactly...


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:20 pm 
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Is this show any good?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:33 pm 
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A very nice surprise and only getting better !


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:55 pm 
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Whats going to kill this show is that in 10 years time, after about a gazillion episodes, when they finally get around to bringing it to a close you find out the main character is hallucinating because he is dying after being in a commercial airliner crash.

T


Last edited by Tango22 on Tue Nov 22, 2016 11:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 1:05 pm 
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I've been really enjoying this.

I can't help thinking people are getting carried away with some of the theories though.. but on the other hand I glanced at reddit a few weeks ago and saw the 'Bernard is a host' theories and thought they were BS, so what do I know.

It definitely does seem like the MiB=William thing is true though.

Really interested to see what happens in the Maeve storyline, but I'm finding it hard to believe the motives of the Asian tech guy (forget his name) when he chose not to do the memory wipe.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 1:06 pm 
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Tango22 wrote:
Whats going to kill this show is that in 10 years time, after about a gazillion episodes, when they finally get around to bringing it to a close you find out that the main characters is hallucinating because he is dying after being in a commercial airliner crash.

T

Always a risk. I'm still bitter about that one.


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