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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:10 am 
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(a rare excursion out of the national thread for this topic)

Has English Rugby failed them both? Seems both are going to go down as players who made a big impact for a few years before permanently breaking down with injury

Does seem to be that their injury woes are partly down to the system they're in - for both club and country the pair are expected to spend the entire game repeatedly carrying ball up into very tight spaces and single handedly taking on half the opposition at once

It seems as though other countries might have developed the pair into players with more rounded skillsets and responsibilities beyond just trucking up slow ball into traffic, so they could take care of their bodies a little better


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:45 am 
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Yes definitely. From the start I thought Billy's game was impossible to maintain. He needed to carry more outwide rather through the middle. The tight forwards should've been carrying through the middle and use Billy sparingly.

IMO Tuilagi is more just luck. He's a big back and his advantage was in the contact. But if you're talking as in the whole system needed to play like SR thus players develop extra skills then sure it would've made him an alrounded player. But Robbie Fruean had the same bad luck with injury and he's similar to Tuilagi.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:50 am 
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Faletau was never injured before he went to Bath, now it’s rare to see him in a Wales shirt


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:11 am 
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Bobcock wrote:
Faletau was never injured before he went to Bath, now it’s rare to see him in a Wales shirt


Beat me to it. Is it lack of rest or more intensity in the English League? Or just plain bad luck.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:17 am 
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openclashXX wrote:
(a rare excursion out of the national thread for this topic)

Has English Rugby failed them both? Seems both are going to go down as players who made a big impact for a few years before permanently breaking down with injury

Does seem to be that their injury woes are partly down to the system they're in - for both club and country the pair are expected to spend the entire game repeatedly carrying ball up into very tight spaces and single handedly taking on half the opposition at once

It seems as though other countries might have developed the pair into players with more rounded skillsets and responsibilities beyond just trucking up slow ball into traffic, so they could take care of their bodies a little better


Yep, time for them to play 7’s for their homelands and become eligible to realize their potential at next years RWC.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:18 am 
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jimmy speights wrote:
openclashXX wrote:
(a rare excursion out of the national thread for this topic)

Has English Rugby failed them both? Seems both are going to go down as players who made a big impact for a few years before permanently breaking down with injury

Does seem to be that their injury woes are partly down to the system they're in - for both club and country the pair are expected to spend the entire game repeatedly carrying ball up into very tight spaces and single handedly taking on half the opposition at once

It seems as though other countries might have developed the pair into players with more rounded skillsets and responsibilities beyond just trucking up slow ball into traffic, so they could take care of their bodies a little better


Yep, time for them to play 7’s for their homelands and become eligible to realize their potential at next years RWC.


I agree. Billy really should come home to Wales. We'd take care of him. He made a terrible mistake when he left us.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:26 am 
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Billy is as Welsh as Shane Howarth.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:31 am 
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CrazyIslander wrote:
Billy is as Welsh as Shane Howarth.


But he was as qualified as Taulupe Faletau. And they both have Welsh accents, isn't it. I am glad that Billy's coach still thinks he is a twat for plumping with the saes.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:35 am 
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LandOTurk wrote:
CrazyIslander wrote:
Billy is as Welsh as Shane Howarth.


But he was as qualified as Taulupe Faletau. And they both have Welsh accents, isn't it. I am glad that Billy's coach still thinks he is a twat for plumping with the saes.

Actually he would've been perfect for Wales, interchanging with Faletau would've prolonged his career and probably more successful. How much different would the money have been?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:49 am 
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CrazyIslander wrote:
LandOTurk wrote:
CrazyIslander wrote:
Billy is as Welsh as Shane Howarth.


But he was as qualified as Taulupe Faletau. And they both have Welsh accents, isn't it. I am glad that Billy's coach still thinks he is a twat for plumping with the saes.

Actually he would've been perfect for Wales, interchanging with Faletau would've prolonged his career and probably more successful. How much different would the money have been?


Considerable I imagine. Over the lifetime of his career I reckon he'd be down several hundred thousands, if not into the 7 figures. From a financial viewpoint, he definitely made the right decision.

However, in another universe, Wales have spent the last several years with a backrow of 8. Billy V, 7. Captain Sam, and 6. Faletau...and people talk about it in hushed tones as one of the greatest backrows that ever played. :nod:


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:12 am 
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Jeff the Bear wrote:
CrazyIslander wrote:
LandOTurk wrote:
CrazyIslander wrote:
Billy is as Welsh as Shane Howarth.


But he was as qualified as Taulupe Faletau. And they both have Welsh accents, isn't it. I am glad that Billy's coach still thinks he is a twat for plumping with the saes.

Actually he would've been perfect for Wales, interchanging with Faletau would've prolonged his career and probably more successful. How much different would the money have been?


Considerable I imagine. Over the lifetime of his career I reckon he'd be down several hundred thousands, if not into the 7 figures. From a financial viewpoint, he definitely made the right decision.

However, in another universe, Wales have spent the last several years with a backrow of 8. Billy V, 7. Captain Sam, and 6. Faletau...and people talk about it in hushed tones as one of the greatest backrows that ever played. :nod:


Lovely thought.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:18 am 
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It's a variety of things. Yes both where used to intensely I think for a while as a cheap first goto tactic for teams instead of one possible option within the team tactics. There is a bit of awe I think of players from Pacific Island backgrounds and that awe kinda translates to teams thinking they are invincible in contact.

I also have to question medical and coaching decisions of their management. Both players have been rushed back multiple times only to get injured again soon after. The medical staff in England don't seem to do a steller job (like Arsenal back in the Wenger days) but the attrition and style of the league helps compound things. Coaches in England don't appear to be patient in both returning players to managing players over a season and letting them rest.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:22 am 
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CrazyIslander wrote:
Billy is as Welsh as Shane Howarth.


Shane who?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:35 am 
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CrazyIslander wrote:
Yes definitely. From the start I thought Billy's game was impossible to maintain. He needed to carry more outwide rather through the middle. The tight forwards should've been carrying through the middle and use Billy sparingly.

IMO Tuilagi is more just luck. He's a big back and his advantage was in the contact. But if you're talking as in the whole system needed to play like SR thus players develop extra skills then sure it would've made him an alrounded player. But Robbie Fruean had the same bad luck with injury and he's similar to Tuilagi.


Friendly had heart defects and red a number of operations


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:36 am 
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I think they're just too big. Great for crashing into people. Not so great for your joints and ligaments and long-term playing future. All those huge guys that play an explosive game (i.e. not front-rowers) seem to be almost perma-injured.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:50 am 
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Billy breaks his arm and all you know nothing wankers are sure he has been overplayed. fudge my boots


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:54 am 
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Anonymous. wrote:
Billy breaks his arm and all you know nothing wankers are sure he has been overplayed. fudge my boots


Maybe you saes twats shouldn't have had him doing handstands carrying in to traffic.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:56 am 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
Anonymous. wrote:
Billy breaks his arm and all you know nothing wankers are sure he has been overplayed. fudge my boots


Maybe you saes twats shouldn't have had him doing handstands carrying in to traffic.

😂😂😂


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:56 am 
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I'd be more inclined to look at their off-field habits. Billy has admitted himself in the past that he's relied too much on his genetics and not done enough work in the gym. Manu's refuelling habits also seem pretty old school judging by the various scrapes he's got himself into.

If you live unprofessionally off the field, it will catch up with you on it sooner or later.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:05 am 
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MrDominator wrote:
I'd be more inclined to look at their off-field habits. Billy has admitted himself in the past that he's relied too much on his genetics and not done enough work in the gym. Manu's refuelling habits also seem pretty old school judging by the various scrapes he's got himself into.

If you live unprofessionally off the field, it will catch up with you on it sooner or later.


It's not about genetics. Billy and Manu's bulk is a sociological construct.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:08 am 
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Mog The Almighty wrote:
I think they're just too big. Great for crashing into people. Not so great for your joints and ligaments and long-term playing future. All those huge guys that play an explosive game (i.e. not front-rowers) seem to be almost perma-injured.


Anonymous. wrote:
Billy breaks his arm and all you know nothing wankers are sure he has been overplayed. fudge my boots


I'm not sure you were referring to what I said or not, but just for the record, I don't believe the two are no mutually exclusive.

Being a massive, heavy guy, you're way more likely to injure yourself just falling over, let alone in high-speed collisions on a rugby field, and that includes bone fractures and breaks, deep tissue bruising, all of it. Not just blowing out joints and general wear and tear.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:13 am 
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Is it possible that they are rushed back before they've fully recovered?

There was so much pressure of Tuilagi to be available for England under Lancaster as he was the key for their gameplan as Billy is key for Eddie Jones's boshathon. Obviously both club teams needed them too as they're world class players when fit.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:14 am 
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LandOTurk wrote:
Bobcock wrote:
Faletau was never injured before he went to Bath, now it’s rare to see him in a Wales shirt


Beat me to it. Is it lack of rest or more intensity in the English League? Or just plain bad luck.


He was playing pre-season friendlies following the Lions Tour!!! There's always an element of luck, but when the deck is stacked against you, by the very people supposed to be looking after you, then you haven't much of a chance!


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:22 am 
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I can't believe you lot are still talking about Tuilagi :lol: Move on FFS.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:46 am 
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LandOTurk wrote:
CrazyIslander wrote:
Billy is as Welsh as Shane Howarth.


But he was as qualified as Taulupe Faletau. And they both have Welsh accents, isn't it. I am glad that Billy's coach still thinks he is a twat for plumping with the saes.


You're confusing Mako with Billy. The latter doesn't have a Welsh accent at all.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:50 am 
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slick wrote:
I can't believe you lot are still talking about Tuilagi :lol: Move on FFS.


He keeps coming back for a few games and teasing us with what he's capable of.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:40 am 
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sockwithaticket wrote:
LandOTurk wrote:
CrazyIslander wrote:
Billy is as Welsh as Shane Howarth.


But he was as qualified as Taulupe Faletau. And they both have Welsh accents, isn't it. I am glad that Billy's coach still thinks he is a twat for plumping with the saes.


You're confusing Mako with Billy. The latter doesn't have a Welsh accent at all.


Billy certainly hangs out in Cardiff enough....


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:43 am 
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Didn't somebody on here warn against relying on PI players like Manu and Billy a couple of years back and get savaged for being a racist?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:43 am 
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sockwithaticket wrote:
LandOTurk wrote:
CrazyIslander wrote:
Billy is as Welsh as Shane Howarth.


But he was as qualified as Taulupe Faletau. And they both have Welsh accents, isn't it. I am glad that Billy's coach still thinks he is a twat for plumping with the saes.


You're confusing Mako with Billy. The latter doesn't have a Welsh accent at all.


Mako and Billy both have Welsh accents.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:03 am 
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If they were both in the Pro14 then they'd be ok. Bad luck coupled with a tough league schedule and a game plan that involves bosh bosh bosh means injury.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:06 am 
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RodneyRegis wrote:
Didn't somebody on here warn against relying on PI players like Manu and Billy a couple of years back and get savaged for being a racist?


Probably me.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:11 am 
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RodneyRegis wrote:
Didn't somebody on here warn against relying on PI players like Manu and Billy a couple of years back and get savaged for being a racist?

My recollection is that the warning was that Billy would get fat, rather than that he would have permanent injury issues.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:15 am 
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Mahoney wrote:
RodneyRegis wrote:
Didn't somebody on here warn against relying on PI players like Manu and Billy a couple of years back and get savaged for being a racist?

My recollection is that the warning was that Billy would get fat, rather than that he would have permanent injury issues.


Correct.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:19 am 
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LandOTurk wrote:
Bobcock wrote:
Faletau was never injured before he went to Bath, now it’s rare to see him in a Wales shirt


Beat me to it. Is it lack of rest or more intensity in the English League? Or just plain bad luck.

Neither it's negligence on behalf of the employers imho.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:49 am 
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fatcat wrote:
sockwithaticket wrote:
LandOTurk wrote:
CrazyIslander wrote:
Billy is as Welsh as Shane Howarth.


But he was as qualified as Taulupe Faletau. And they both have Welsh accents, isn't it. I am glad that Billy's coach still thinks he is a twat for plumping with the saes.


You're confusing Mako with Billy. The latter doesn't have a Welsh accent at all.


Mako and Billy both have Welsh accents.


Billy's never sounded Welsh in any of the interviews I've seen. Mako has.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:05 pm 
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sockwithaticket wrote:
fatcat wrote:
sockwithaticket wrote:
LandOTurk wrote:
CrazyIslander wrote:
Billy is as Welsh as Shane Howarth.


But he was as qualified as Taulupe Faletau. And they both have Welsh accents, isn't it. I am glad that Billy's coach still thinks he is a twat for plumping with the saes.


You're confusing Mako with Billy. The latter doesn't have a Welsh accent at all.


Mako and Billy both have Welsh accents.


Billy's never sounded Welsh in any of the interviews I've seen. Mako has.


He's sounded Welsh in every one I've seen.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:22 pm 
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c69 wrote:
LandOTurk wrote:
Bobcock wrote:
Faletau was never injured before he went to Bath, now it’s rare to see him in a Wales shirt


Beat me to it. Is it lack of rest or more intensity in the English League? Or just plain bad luck.

Neither it's negligence on behalf of the employers imho.


Don't Wales have similar problems ? - I seem to recall many Welsh posts bemoaning the number of injuries affecting selection of the National team.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:55 pm 
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Bobcock wrote:
Faletau was never injured before he went to Bath, now it’s rare to see him in a Wales shirt


You mean Tuilagi ?

;)


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:34 pm 
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How often has Ben Teo played Worchester? I barely remember his being injured for Leinster.
Once Johnny Wilkinson left to play in France he was barely injured.
CJ stander plays a very similar game to Billy (though not as good) rarely gets injured.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:35 pm 
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I don't think he's ever played Worchester.


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