Planet Rugby Forum

Ok, we have enough threads about the sad state of affairs in SA Rugby but there must be a few things we're looking forward to moving into 2017. So apart from AC getting fired, what other aspects are you looking forward to? Focus on players you're looking forward to seeing develop.

The main areas of focus that in my opinion need to be the loosies and then the entire backline is a disaster. Our loosies lack balance. With that in mind I'd like to keep an eye on the following:

Rohan tops my list as a player I really want to see develop and take the step up next year. Our 9/10/12/13 axis is shambolic at best atm.
#13 - Not sold on anyone who has been tried at 13 yet and since Fourie retired that has been a major weakness for us. I'd like to give the RjVR/Venter combo more time but I'm just not sold on Venter being a world class 13 and it's not Kriel either.
9/10 - Wow, what a crap shoot. Jantjies/Lambie have shown they are crap. Goosen who should have been given a go is clearly not seen by the coaches as a 10 despite that being his best position imo...13 might be a good shout for him as well. Looking at the Eng/Italy/Wales games just look at the impact Goosen had when he moved to 10 against Eng compared to the impact Jantjies/Lambie had when they came on against the other two teams. Pollard should enter the scene again as well and who knows which other players will put their hands up this year but we need to move away from Jantjies and Lambie for sure.

9 is equally as problematic if not more. Faf is a headless chicken at best and Paige is just solid. Piet van Zyl? Who knows. We're in dire need of a world class 9.

11 - taking over from Habana in the long term I see the possibility of Senatla coming in. Looking forward to seeing him develop this year if he focuses more on XV's.

14 - Combrink I rate highly and he's struggled for form since injury but he'll be back. Sergeal Petersen is another to watch as he keeps developing.

15 - Hopefully Gelant comes back and finds form. Will be watching him.

Loosies - Whitely, like everyone else struggled but we'll see if he has another good SR season and he might be a good shout for Capt. Duane needs to be involved imo but I don't think he will if AC is the coach. Obviously the overseas policy will also determine some of this. He, Kitshoff, and Goosen are probably the only overseas players I'd keep with Habana transitioning out this year. I'd include Frans as well but he seems discarded completely.

We're solid at 4 and 5 locks and have FR options. Hopefully Marx develops into the player we all hope he is and has shown at SR level.

TH - With Julian breaking his kneck who know if he'll be back to the same form but we're in need of a few quality TH's. I think we're covered in the LH department for now.

Forgetting the politics for a second, I'll be looking to see which players put their hands up this year.

You forgot the "?" In the thread title

I think the "smiley avatar" accomplished the same...

Marcell Coetzee and Pollard being fit again will solve half our problems
If Coetzee stays, at least change his assistants

That title is soooo open to comedy.

Torquemada 1420 wrote:That title is soooo open to comedy.

Shut it Frenchie.

Cartman wrote:Marcell Coetzee and Pollard being fit again will solve half our problems
If Coetzee stays, at least change his assistants

While AC has been a disaster he was always going to struggle. And then adding those assistants, Stick and van Graan in particular, with Stick being the worst of the lot clearly seen in what the backline attempted to produce this year it was always going to be an uphill task.

I've wondered for a while now just how the players respond to someone like Stick being in charge of them.

Cartman wrote:Marcell Coetzee and Pollard being fit again

How long will that last?

Sandstorm wrote:

Cartman wrote:Marcell Coetzee and Pollard being fit again

How long will that last?

And isn't Marcell now a chicken runner, which disqualifies him anyway [[oomPB mode]]

excuse my intrusion as a non-Saffer but surely this depends on what type of gameplan the Boks want to employ moving forwards? I understand the demand for an all-court NZ brand of rugby but as an England fan I'd point to Eddie Jones' success at stripping back the England game to its traditional strengths of set-piece and defence in order to get some wins and confidence back in the side as a template for the Boks to maybe follow?

Bok tight 5 is OK, except at hooker. Loosies problematic. We need fetchers.

9 is a horror. Nobody world class on the horizon.

With Pollard, Goosen. we cover 10. Better than AC ever did.
Rohan, Frans and Venter can do 12 and 13.
Fullback ?
Habana and another at wing, for now.

openclashXX wrote:excuse my intrusion as a non-Saffer but surely this depends on what type of gameplan the Boks want to employ moving forwards? I understand the demand for an all-court NZ brand of rugby but as an England fan I'd point to Eddie Jones' success at stripping back the England game to its traditional strengths of set-piece and defence in order to get some wins and confidence back in the side as a template for the Boks to maybe follow?

Yes, which is why I want to focus on players we're looking forward to seeing instead of all the other important stuff like the coach, game plan, quotas, ANC, SARU, DSTV, no chicken runners, brokenWP, etc.

openclashXX wrote:excuse my intrusion as a non-Saffer but surely this depends on what type of gameplan the Boks want to employ moving forwards? I understand the demand for an all-court NZ brand of rugby but as an England fan I'd point to Eddie Jones' success at stripping back the England game to its traditional strengths of set-piece and defence in order to get some wins and confidence back in the side as a template for the Boks to maybe follow?

The vocal minority (fans and journos) will never allow that.

The quiet majority expects the coach to go ahead and do it regardless. But AC was too incompetent.

Wilson's Toffee wrote:Bok tight 5 is OK, except at hooker. Loosies problematic. We need fetchers.

9 is a horror. Nobody world class on the horizon.

With Pollard, Goosen. we cover 10. Better than AC ever did.
Rohan, Frans and Venter can do 12 and 13.
Fullback ?
Habana and another at wing, for now.

Yes, but Goosen isn't seen as a 10 by AC so if he stays it's tickets. Habana I think still has some to offer but who are the players you are looking forward to watching transition in there? Same for the "another wing" comment you made. I know who we have and where our needs are, this is about the players we see as a possible future player in those gaps oom. Like fullback...we know it's a gap that needs to be filled so the question is who fills it...

If we want the Springboks to move forward we must rid them of Alister Coetzee. Useless coach.

Wilson's Toffee wrote:Bok tight 5 is OK, except at hooker. Loosies problematic. We need fetchers.

9 is a horror. Nobody world class on the horizon.

With Pollard, Goosen. we cover 10. Better than AC ever did.
Rohan, Frans and Venter can do 12 and 13.
Fullback ?
Habana and another at wing, for now.

Cronje of the Lions is fine imo
Hopefully he surpasses faf next year before test rugby starts
Goossen looks like a school boy nowadays
Dont know wtf happened there. Was he always that small? Not how i remember him

Fullback needs somebody like Gelant. Kriel can cover 13 and 15. RW we have Combrink, can fit in Sergeal, others, maybe who can fit into a decent defensive pattern. We have Serfontein left, too. And other promising centers from the Bulls e.a .

Difficult with the back line, most players seemed useless in the AC pattern of making them fetchers and static defenders. He is soooo useless.

Cartman wrote:

Wilson's Toffee wrote:Bok tight 5 is OK, except at hooker. Loosies problematic. We need fetchers.

9 is a horror. Nobody world class on the horizon.

With Pollard, Goosen. we cover 10. Better than AC ever did.
Rohan, Frans and Venter can do 12 and 13.
Fullback ?
Habana and another at wing, for now.

Cronje of the Lions is fine imo
Hopefully he surpasses faf next year before test rugby starts
Goossen looks like a school boy nowadays
Dont know wtf happened there. Was he always that small? Not how i remember him

I think the Goose is overplayed. He has to try and shine, he lost many miles with injury and his own surliness. He will fill out again

Wilson's Toffee wrote:Fullback needs somebody like Gelant. Kriel can cover 13 and 15. RW we have Combrink, can fit in Sergeal, others, maybe who can fit into a decent defensive pattern. We have Serfontein left, too. And other promising centers from the Bulls e.a .

Difficult with the back line, most players seemed useless in the AC pattern of making them fetchers and static defenders. He is soooo useless.

Forgot about Serfontein. The Bulls managed to break a future Gerber there

Rohan at 12 and him at 13 wouldn't be bad if he finds some semblance of form again.

openclashXX wrote:.......surely this depends on what type of gameplan the Boks want to employ......

Does. Not. Compute. [/saffamode]



They had 3 coaches in a row, none of whom seemed to have any hint of this elusive thing called a "game plan". Whoever their new coach is going to be (IF there is indeed a plan to get rid of Coetze), it's going to take that poor soul at least 2 years before the Yarpies come to grips with this concept.

I'd suggest picking a SA non quota team/barbarians of sort and challenge the Boks to a match.
Sit back and enjoy.

I find it hard to rate players our players the way the OP has after this season under AC.

Flametop wrote:I'd suggest picking a SA non quota team/barbarians of sort and challenge the Boks to a match.
Sit back and enjoy.

Excellent idea

Sards wrote:

Flametop wrote:I'd suggest picking a SA non quota team/barbarians of sort and challenge the Boks to a match.
Sit back and enjoy.

Excellent idea

chilli will be along shortly with his usual team selections...

assfly wrote:I find it hard to rate players our players the way the OP has after this season under AC.

Which players are you referring to? Most of the players I said that I didn't rate in the OP I wasn't to high on before AC either...

And now Combrink out for 4 months again.

saffer13 wrote:And now Combrink out for 4 months again.

No rugby for most of that time. Don't worry, the Lions will have him back for June, meantime we will blood Koch Marx, Selmon Gavor, or someone else. Sylvian Mahuza also shaped well on the wing this year

Combrink never looked right

Sards wrote:Combrink never looked right

Nope, from game of his life to losing to Italy

afams777 wrote:

openclashXX wrote:.......surely this depends on what type of gameplan the Boks want to employ......

Does. Not. Compute. [/saffamode]



They had 3 coaches in a row, none of whom seemed to have any hint of this elusive thing called a "game plan". Whoever their new coach is going to be (IF there is indeed a plan to get rid of Coetze), it's going to take that poor soul at least 2 years before the Yarpies come to grips with this concept.

You can't blame coach / game plan when players are butchering easy overlaps with poor timing / poor execution (or not even seeing / communicating those opportunities).

... unless, of course, the plan to bosh / kick is so rigid that they're conditioned out of playing what they see. I wonder why this happens: conditioned to the rigid plan or truly lack vision and/or ability to communicate the opportunity? I think your biggest issue is further down. The Kiwis, Aussies, and even the English now are churning out plenty of players who have genuine 'rugby footballing' skills. The South Africans still seem to be picking the biggest and fastest regardless of awareness/skill and hope they can bosh through the wall or run around it.

saffer13 wrote:

Sards wrote:

Flametop wrote:I'd suggest picking a SA non quota team/barbarians of sort and challenge the Boks to a match.
Sit back and enjoy.

Excellent idea

chilli will be along shortly with his usual team selections...

Yank you cvnt.

openclashXX wrote:excuse my intrusion as a non-Saffer but surely this depends on what type of gameplan the Boks want to employ moving forwards? I understand the demand for an all-court NZ brand of rugby but as an England fan I'd point to Eddie Jones' success at stripping back the England game to its traditional strengths of set-piece and defence in order to get some wins and confidence back in the side as a template for the Boks to maybe follow?

I've been saying more or less this since before the start of the EOYT.

I think if we'd stuck with the plan and the players who beat the Aussies a month or two back (albeit without scoring any tries), we'd have certainly beaten the Italians and probably the Welsh, maybe even England.

At least we'd be playing a brand of rugby that we're all familiar with.

Going forward, we have to look at the players and their strengths and then build a game plan around them rather than the other way around, picking a game plan and then insisting the players contort their game to fit it.

Chilli wrote:

saffer13 wrote:

Sards wrote:

Flametop wrote:I'd suggest picking a SA non quota team/barbarians of sort and challenge the Boks to a match.
Sit back and enjoy.

Excellent idea

chilli will be along shortly with his usual team selections...

Yank you cvnt.

Took you long enough.

Flametop wrote:I'd suggest picking a SA non quota team/barbarians of sort and challenge the Boks to a match.
Sit back and enjoy.

That's a bit stupid isn't it?

The majority of the boks are non quota players. Who is in the springbok team is there because of a quota? And who are they keeping out of the side?

Bok rugby is a mess because Sourh African rugby is a mess. When you include outside factors such as the rand it is compounding the problems.

AC is part of the problem not the problem.


Unfortunately, I can't see it changing quickly. World rugby needs a strong bok side.

saffer13 wrote:

Chilli wrote:

saffer13 wrote:

Sards wrote:

Flametop wrote:I'd suggest picking a SA non quota team/barbarians of sort and challenge the Boks to a match.
Sit back and enjoy.

Excellent idea

chilli will be along shortly with his usual team selections...

Yank you cvnt.

Took you long enough.

I have to work too

It doesn't matter who the coach is next yr, Boks problem will still be there. For a start the packs lacks physicality, the locks are tripe and Etzebeth is rubbish, PSD is not physical enough for a lock and too slow for the backrow. The backrow have zero physical impact and have little effect on the games. All the 9's are poor and bar Pollard, so are the 10's. The centres that are physical lack the skills and the ones that are skilled lack physical presence. I remember saying that Goosen is a poor 15 lacking pace and some Saffers said it was rubbish, but not only is he is slow he lacks any decision making skills. For me the Boks need to recall BDP and Steyn, and hope that Serfontein is fit next year.

Masterji wrote:It doesn't matter who the coach is next yr, Boks problem will still be there. For a start the packs lacks physicality, the locks are tripe and Etzebeth is rubbish, PSD is not physical enough for a lock and too slow for the backrow. The backrow have zero physical impact and have little effect on the games. All the 9's are poor and bar Pollard, so are the 10's. The centres that are physical lack the skills and the ones that are skilled lack physical presence. I remember saying that Goosen is a poor 15 lacking pace and some Saffers said it was rubbish, but not only is he is slow he lacks any decision making skills. For me the Boks need to recall BDP and Steyn, and hope that Serfontein is fit next year.

BDP is a huge loss to our rugby. But I doubt he will want to play under this rabble

Masterji wrote:It doesn't matter who the coach is next yr, Boks problem will still be there. For a start the packs lacks physicality, the locks are tripe and Etzebeth is rubbish, PSD is not physical enough for a lock and too slow for the backrow. The backrow have zero physical impact and have little effect on the games. All the 9's are poor and bar Pollard, so are the 10's. The centres that are physical lack the skills and the ones that are skilled lack physical presence. I remember saying that Goosen is a poor 15 lacking pace and some Saffers said it was rubbish, but not only is he is slow he lacks any decision making skills. For me the Boks need to recall BDP and Steyn, and hope that Serfontein is fit next year.

Which Steyn?

Yeah, I agree with most of that. Skills can be generally learned, though. Which is why an effective coach is not merely a 'nice to have' that SARU seem to feel it is.

I think that Faf is coming in for undeserved criticism; I've always made the point that he is a bit of a loose canon, but that adds to his effectiveness in my view and the occasional brainfart comes with that territory. Also I've felt that his passes have been nice and sharp and I haven't really noticed the "two step" that many have been saying makes his service slow.

Rinkals wrote:

Masterji wrote:It doesn't matter who the coach is next yr, Boks problem will still be there. For a start the packs lacks physicality, the locks are tripe and Etzebeth is rubbish, PSD is not physical enough for a lock and too slow for the backrow. The backrow have zero physical impact and have little effect on the games. All the 9's are poor and bar Pollard, so are the 10's. The centres that are physical lack the skills and the ones that are skilled lack physical presence. I remember saying that Goosen is a poor 15 lacking pace and some Saffers said it was rubbish, but not only is he is slow he lacks any decision making skills. For me the Boks need to recall BDP and Steyn, and hope that Serfontein is fit next year.

Which Steyn?

Yeah, I agree with most of that. Skills can be generally learned, though. Which is why an effective coach is not merely a 'nice to have' that SARU seem to feel it is.

I think that Faf is coming in for undeserved criticism; I've always made the point that he is a bit of a loose canon, but that adds to his effectiveness in my view and the occasional brainfart comes with that territory. Also I've felt that his passes have been nice and sharp and I haven't really noticed the "two step" that many have been saying makes his service slow.

For me the thing with Faf is that when AC's Boks are in the shit [and they were in the shit plenty] he tries to hard to pull off the miracle gap / pass / intercept / tackle.
You can't blame him, at least he doesn't go into his shell and hide away.

Chilli wrote:

Rinkals wrote:

Masterji wrote:It doesn't matter who the coach is next yr, Boks problem will still be there. For a start the packs lacks physicality, the locks are tripe and Etzebeth is rubbish, PSD is not physical enough for a lock and too slow for the backrow. The backrow have zero physical impact and have little effect on the games. All the 9's are poor and bar Pollard, so are the 10's. The centres that are physical lack the skills and the ones that are skilled lack physical presence. I remember saying that Goosen is a poor 15 lacking pace and some Saffers said it was rubbish, but not only is he is slow he lacks any decision making skills. For me the Boks need to recall BDP and Steyn, and hope that Serfontein is fit next year.

Which Steyn?

Yeah, I agree with most of that. Skills can be generally learned, though. Which is why an effective coach is not merely a 'nice to have' that SARU seem to feel it is.

I think that Faf is coming in for undeserved criticism; I've always made the point that he is a bit of a loose canon, but that adds to his effectiveness in my view and the occasional brainfart comes with that territory. Also I've felt that his passes have been nice and sharp and I haven't really noticed the "two step" that many have been saying makes his service slow.

For me the thing with Faf is that when AC's Boks are in the shit [and they were in the shit plenty] he tries to hard to pull off the miracle gap / pass / intercept / tackle.
You can't blame him, at least he doesn't go into his shell and hide away.

AC is getting his dose Ritalin wrong