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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:54 pm 
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Looks completely ridiculous, but admire the ingenuity.

http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/sport/201 ... s-cup.html

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Part of me hope it gets banned next year. We can't watch sailing that looks like this.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:05 pm 
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It's one of those things that seem so obvious now, and wonder why the hell nobody has done it before.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:10 pm 
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I imagine the arms are faster in rotations, and reactions. Though, with different gearing the legs have better top speed.

Since all tacks are planned I guess reactions might not matter.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:11 pm 
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As long as Andrew Flintoff doesn't take it out, we should be fine.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:12 pm 
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Yourmother wrote:
I imagine the arms are faster in rotations, and reactions. Though, with different gearing the legs have better top speed.

Since all tacks are planned I guess reactions might not matter.

They provide pressure to hydraulics so reaction time does not mater.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:12 pm 
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JB1981 wrote:
As long as Andrew Flintoff doesn't take it out, we should be fine.


:lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:13 pm 
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Laurent wrote:
Yourmother wrote:
I imagine the arms are faster in rotations, and reactions. Though, with different gearing the legs have better top speed.

Since all tacks are planned I guess reactions might not matter.

They provide pressure to hydraulics so reaction time does not mater.


Ahhh, I see, stored energy.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:21 pm 
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Apparently a lot of teams have been toying with this, but TNZ has gone for it. Oracle and BAR are way ahead in likely winners though, so I suspect TNZ had to throw an innovation into the mix.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:25 pm 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
Apparently a lot of teams have been toying with this, but TNZ has gone for it. Oracle and BAR are way ahead in likely winners though, so I suspect TNZ had to throw an innovation into the mix.


Hope it proves more successful than the hula hull.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:30 pm 
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Apparently a lot of teams have been toying with this, but TNZ has gone for it. Oracle and BAR are way ahead in likely winners though, so I suspect TNZ had to throw an innovation into the mix.

Team Sky are working on their own cycle-boat as we speak.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:33 pm 
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Turbogoat wrote:
It's one of those things that seem so obvious now, and wonder why the hell nobody has done it before.


It has been done before. The Swedish challenge in 77 tried it but it was banned in later challenges.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:26 am 
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Turbogoat wrote:
It's one of those things that seem so obvious now, and wonder why the hell nobody has done it before.



A kiwi friend of mine suggested this years ago, boy how we laughed. Makes perfect sense.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 10:43 pm 
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Looking good in very light winds, there can't be more than 4 or 5 knots there.

Spoiler: show
Image

credit...Weta27 and Sailing Anarchy


Last edited by usermame on Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 11:18 pm 
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I have no idea what the wind conditions in Bermuda will be like when the LV Cup starts - Globus would be able to enlighten us - but if you can remain on the foil in light conditions, while tacking etc, which is exactly what TNZ is aiming for with the increased hydraulic power, then it could prove to be a game changer.

I was doing a bit of reading and apparently Oracle was on the verge of abandoning a foiling boat last time around because they couldn't get it to work. TNZ unveiled their boat and Oracle took the observed data and got their boat and crew to work. Of course, there was no way TNZ could not test the boat before they raced so they had to do sea trials and reveal the boat design.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 12:44 am 
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Chin stroking. This is quite an interesting development.

All about shifting gear as fast as possible. Very innovative.

The grinders will have to shift their muscles from their arms to the legs.

I wonder about the boat trim. That might be a bit of an issue.

Need to see this in action. It might be banned as there might be a conformity rule.

Fun and games again. Love it.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:03 am 
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Some video around the new boat,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SVT44tmWFw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obmjmij3ip0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1WvwFgzruA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XTX21W_nxo


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:09 am 
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Here is Oracle's:

Image

Quote:
S FAR AS sporting trophies go, it’s hard to find any older than the America’s Cup. Sailing teams have been fighting over the ornate, sterling silver ewer since 1851. But while Queen Victoria would recognize “Auld Mug” today, she likely wouldn’t even register the watercraft racing after it as boats.

These vessels are like luxury yachts the way Formula 1 cars are like family sedans: They drive, and the similarities stop there. The folks eager to win sailing’s greatest prize sink fortunes on the latest modern technology and materials, yielding vessels that don’t so much plow through the water as fly above it.

Today, America’s Cup defending champion Oracle Team USA unveiled the boat it will take to the briny deep in 2017. It looks like two black and red missiles, bound together with a lattice of carbon fiber tubing, and towered over by a fabric sail—the only conventional element. If it seems ready to take flight, it might be because Oracle tapped aviation giant Airbus to fine tune the design.

This yacht, dubbed AC50, is in some ways a tamer version of the design that won the last America’s Cup, but was criticized for being so powerful, even pro sailors had trouble handling it. In the 2013 races in San Francisco, several boats crashed; one sailor died. So this newcomer is 50 feet long instead of 72, and demands a crew of six, not 11. (Every competing yacht uses the same basic design, which the defending champion selects.)

Modern catamarans generate lift with a hydrofoil suspended under the hull. It boosts the boat out of the waves, like an underwater wing. Flying above the water for most of the race cuts drag and raises speeds.
Modern catamarans generate lift with a hydrofoil suspended under the hull. It boosts the boat out of the waves, like an underwater wing. Flying above the water for most of the race cuts drag and raises speeds.ORACLE TEAM USA
But the heart of what makes these yachts so fierce has only been strengthened. America’s Cup Class catamarans use lift generated over a hydrofoil suspended under the hull—like a wing under water—to boost the boat up out of the waves and make it fly. Instead of pushing its hull through the water, the yacht skims the surface, riding on what look like little feet.

“You just have this little hokey stick foil section cutting through the water,” says Aaron Perry, Oracle Team USA designer, who has spent the last year and a half in Bermuda developing the new boat. Less drag equals more speed, which is why velocities have doubled since yachts started using hydrofoils. In 2013, Team Emirates topped 50 mph. Despite the smaller boats, this year’s racers are likely to go even faster.

There’s not much room for creativity to make that happen. The 50-page design guidelines demand every boat be identical, save a few key elements, including the hydrofoil shape and control systems. So that’s where Airbus engineers focused their aerodynamics expertise. “What is amazing for an aeronautical engineer like me is that the technology used to design these flying boats is very similar to the ones we’re using to develop and test aircraft,” says Pierre Marie Belleau, Airbus’ head of business development and a keen sailor himself.

The planemaker even invited Oracle to experiment with its foils at its Hamburg testing facilities. They put them through some vibration, torsion, and bending tests, as well as a pressure test to breaking point—treatment usually reserved for commercial airliner wings.

The result? Where the old boat could only “fly” when going downwind, Oracle has nearly perfected how to rest on its foils no matter the conditions. “The boats are completing practice races without coming off the foils,” Perry says. “The hulls are now almost irrelevant.”

The hulls are now almost irrelevant.
AARON PERRY, ORACLE TEAM USA DESIGNER
The defending champions, not wanting to leave anything to chance, also worked with BMW to integrate a steering system derived from touring car racing. Applying the semi-automated systems designed for automotive applications, the engineers made a yacht that responds to a turn of the wheel nearly instantaneously—instead of taking two seconds.

Even with all the technology and trials, on race day, it will come down to human factors. “It’s been a combination of getting time on the water, and really good crew work,” says Perry. “To get around the racecourse without touching down off the foils requires a kind of a symphony.” Everything has to happen with perfect timing, adjusting and trimming on the fly. The sailors still matter.

And they’re in for a challenge. Oracle Team USA will face challenges from teams from the UK, France, Sweden, New Zealand, and Japan, vying for the chance to wrest the ancient trophy away when qualifiers start in May


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:33 am 
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globus wrote:
Chin stroking. This is quite an interesting development.

All about shifting gear as fast as possible. Very innovative.

The grinders will have to shift their muscles from their arms to the legs.

I wonder about the boat trim. That might be a bit of an issue.

Need to see this in action. It might be banned as there might be a conformity rule.

Fun and games again. Love it.

Rule permits any sort of human input, won't be banned. The sailists or cyclors have been training for over a year I believe. As I understand it, more power permits less draggy foils which need constant adjustment of the AOA.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:39 am 
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Apparently Oracle and Japan thought about it but went the conventional route. More power, less fatigue on the crew, greater hydraulic pressure. Down sides being the difficulty of shifting from one side to the other during tacks and jibes.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:45 am 
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usermame wrote:
Looking good in very light winds, there can't be more than 4 or 5 knots there.

Spoiler: show
Image

Is that Auckland (or is it just than many waterfront areas in CBDs look similar)?


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:46 am 
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That's Auckland.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:48 am 
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That is indeed Dorkland.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 12:59 am 
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The Viaduct webcam showed the wing up, it must be out for another sail.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:07 am 
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usermame wrote:
The Viaduct webcam showed the wing up, it must be out for another sail.

They've had it under development for 3 years. There's only so much testing you can do on dry land and in simulations. They'll be trying to maximise time on the water to get the crew as efficient as possible before heading to Bermuda. At this stage all the other syndicates can't change a thing on their boats and will only gain data on their opponents capabilities.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:40 am 
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The Native wrote:
They'll be trying to maximise time on the water to get the crew as efficient as possible before heading to Bermuda.

One would imagine so, that's why it's surprising this is only the 2nd day of sailing of which I'm aware after the launch.

The other thing is, does/did ETNZ have a blackout period and when is/was it? Because it's pretty scary if they have one and haven't yet taken it.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 4:10 am 
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Some piccies by Weta27 of Das Boot smoking today on this page at Sailing Anarchy

http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=156565&page=62


Last edited by usermame on Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 4:23 am 
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That is smoking it - really high on the foils.

Image


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 4:38 am 
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Turbogoat wrote:
It's one of those things that seem so obvious now, and wonder why the hell nobody has done it before.

I always assumed it wasn't allowed. If no one really has crunched the numbers before I would be amazed


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 5:10 am 
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I'll bet there will be some oracle bods monitoring it carefully.

That oracle boat is painted a bit too similarly to the TNZ boat.

Might get difficult to follow if TNZ make the Americas Cup for the final. Well apart from the cyclists, that is.

When does the Louis Vuitton kick off?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 5:46 am 
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Yourmother wrote:
I'll bet there will be some oracle bods monitoring it carefully.

That oracle boat is painted a bit too similarly to the TNZ boat.

Might get difficult to follow if TNZ make the Americas Cup for the final. Well apart from the cyclists, that is.

When does the Louis Vuitton kick off?

There was an Oracle boat watching it as it made it's first appearance


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:05 am 
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Enzedder wrote:
That is smoking it - really high on the foils.

I'd suggest the wind is under 12 knots in that piccie.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:17 am 
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usermame wrote:
Enzedder wrote:
That is smoking it - really high on the foils.

I'd suggest the wind is under 12 knots in that piccie.


What speeds are they getting?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:21 am 
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Haven't a clue and I'm sure they're not going to tell us...


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:58 am 
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Anonymous. wrote:
Turbogoat wrote:
It's one of those things that seem so obvious now, and wonder why the hell nobody has done it before.

I always assumed it wasn't allowed. If no one really has crunched the numbers before I would be amazed

There's hardly been much history of man powered hydraulically adjusted wings and foils for it to have had much opportunity to happen.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:50 am 
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Yourmother wrote:
usermame wrote:
Enzedder wrote:
That is smoking it - really high on the foils.

I'd suggest the wind is under 12 knots in that piccie.


What speeds are they getting?

I don't think the top speed will be that affected by the increased power generated by the bikes. It'll be the ability to stay foiling when tacking and jibing that will pay the biggest dividends. Especially in light winds.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 12:02 pm 
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The Native wrote:
Yourmother wrote:
usermame wrote:
Enzedder wrote:
That is smoking it - really high on the foils.

I'd suggest the wind is under 12 knots in that piccie.


What speeds are they getting?

I don't think the top speed will be that affected by the increased power generated by the bikes. It'll be the ability to stay foiling when tacking and jibing that will pay the biggest dividends. Especially in light winds.


Yes, the reduction in time of manoeuvres will be big. But sounds like there's more to it than this.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:52 pm 
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The Viaduct web cam shows Das Boot might be off for another sail...

http://www.takeabreak.co.nz/webcams/16/auckland_viaduct_harbour_webcam


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:03 pm 
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so...what do they do then? why does a boat need hydraulic pressure?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 5:29 pm 
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Been looking at this. At this level, an ability to tack or gybe within a short time is a major advantage. In light winds this is a massive bonus.

I suspect it's not the finished product but it adds to the equation. The jury is out. I'll be on this like a dog with a slipper when things kick off.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 5:40 pm 
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Heymans wrote:
so...what do they do then? why does a boat need hydraulic pressure?

The boats use hydraulics to raise and lower the daggerboards, control the rudders and provide lift for the foils.


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