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Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:43 pm
by Yourmother
Seneca of the Night wrote:
Yourmother wrote:Ineos Team GB are quick off the mark in case others haven’t seen their scaled down version.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pZPWHWK0TT0

Looks exciting.
They are.going to be helluva team. Limitless budget basically.

This whole thing still pisses me off though. What is it with these pricks like Ellison and bertarelli? They build their teams and franchises then piss off in a strop when they lose. Don't even have any continuity. Now we have another split between multi and single hulls. Like two different titles/comps.
Portsmouth is only 30 mins away from me.. Would love to see one of these things fly. Perhaps I could become a spy.

Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:14 pm
by Flockwitt
Still think there's going to be an area of concern regards the cutting scythe in the air though. A piece of equipment failure or human error at the wrong moment and somebody could well be for the chop. They'll need specific rules about distance, passing, crossing et all, shirely.

Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:22 am
by usermame
The Native wrote:
badmannotinjapan wrote:
globus wrote:
badmannotinjapan wrote:
usermame wrote:How the foils will raise and lower.

https://youtu.be/_B37zmJpBv4
So no tacking duels...
Looks unlikely. It's why I have always thought that the races should be in monohulls.

Much more technical fun than brute force.
I suppose it depends on the mode of sailing as well...
And in the last AC there were a few tacking "duels". But the boats were so fast that it didn't resemble the ponderous stuff that was seen in the old monos.
Exactly. The duel was over after the first exchange.

Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:44 am
by badmannotinjapan
The Native wrote:
badmannotinjapan wrote:
globus wrote:
badmannotinjapan wrote:
usermame wrote:How the foils will raise and lower.

https://youtu.be/_B37zmJpBv4
So no tacking duels...
Looks unlikely. It's why I have always thought that the races should be in monohulls.

Much more technical fun than brute force.
I suppose it depends on the mode of sailing as well...
And in the last AC there were a few tacking "duels". But the boats were so fast that it didn't resemble the ponderous stuff that was seen in the old monos.
My point was, if the foils take 15 seconds to position then tacking duels will be nixed in order to get up.

Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:03 am
by The Native
badmannotinjapan wrote:
The Native wrote:
badmannotinjapan wrote:
globus wrote:
badmannotinjapan wrote: So no tacking duels...
Looks unlikely. It's why I have always thought that the races should be in monohulls.

Much more technical fun than brute force.
I suppose it depends on the mode of sailing as well...
And in the last AC there were a few tacking "duels". But the boats were so fast that it didn't resemble the ponderous stuff that was seen in the old monos.
My point was, if the foils take 15 seconds to position then tacking duels will be nixed in order to get up.
Unless one team is covering the other for advantageous wind position so as to set their foils first in a better breeze. I think there will be tacking duel, just not as we recognise them and they won't be lengthy or have nearly the frequency compared to the old mono-hulls.

Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:59 am
by sonic_attack
They must have pencilled in longer courses hopefully, or extended the legs between pins.
Bermuda races were pretty short really. Yo were just kinda getting into it and it was all over.

Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:50 pm
by badmannotinjapan
The Native wrote: Unless one team is covering the other for advantageous wind position so as to set their foils first in a better breeze. I think there will be tacking duel, just not as we recognise them and they won't be lengthy or have nearly the frequency compared to the old mono-hulls.
If we're in displacement mode we may see it happening...

Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:55 pm
by The Native
badmannotinjapan wrote:
The Native wrote: Unless one team is covering the other for advantageous wind position so as to set their foils first in a better breeze. I think there will be tacking duel, just not as we recognise them and they won't be lengthy or have nearly the frequency compared to the old mono-hulls.
If we're in displacement mode we may see it happening...
Yeah, that's what I mean. Could definitely happen in the start box like we saw in the last iteration of the AC.

Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:01 am
by badmannotinjapan
The Native wrote:
badmannotinjapan wrote:
The Native wrote: Unless one team is covering the other for advantageous wind position so as to set their foils first in a better breeze. I think there will be tacking duel, just not as we recognise them and they won't be lengthy or have nearly the frequency compared to the old mono-hulls.
If we're in displacement mode we may see it happening...
Yeah, that's what I mean. Could definitely happen in the start box like we saw in the last iteration of the AC.
Possible although the entry rules almost discourage engagement.

Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:49 am
by merlin the happy pig
badmannotinjapan wrote:
The Native wrote: Unless one team is covering the other for advantageous wind position so as to set their foils first in a better breeze. I think there will be tacking duel, just not as we recognise them and they won't be lengthy or have nearly the frequency compared to the old mono-hulls.
If we're in displacement mode we may see it happening...
I wonder if given the lack of static stability whether it is easier to get up on the foils up and down wind rather than reaching?

Could be that if tacking is ponderous and/or hard to do while staying on foils, a team that can do it well could have a huge advantage.

Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:55 am
by The Native
merlin the happy pig wrote:
badmannotinjapan wrote:
The Native wrote: Unless one team is covering the other for advantageous wind position so as to set their foils first in a better breeze. I think there will be tacking duel, just not as we recognise them and they won't be lengthy or have nearly the frequency compared to the old mono-hulls.
If we're in displacement mode we may see it happening...
I wonder if given the lack of static stability whether it is easier to get up on the foils up and down wind rather than reaching?

Could be that if tacking is ponderous and/or hard to do while staying on foils, a team that can do it well could have a huge advantage.
Given the placement of the foils, I think it'll be easier to get up on the foils when they're doing a broad or beam reach. Close reach/haul or dead run not so much.

So many unknowns, so very cool.

Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:10 am
by badmannotinjapan
The Native wrote:
merlin the happy pig wrote:
badmannotinjapan wrote:
The Native wrote: Unless one team is covering the other for advantageous wind position so as to set their foils first in a better breeze. I think there will be tacking duel, just not as we recognise them and they won't be lengthy or have nearly the frequency compared to the old mono-hulls.
If we're in displacement mode we may see it happening...
I wonder if given the lack of static stability whether it is easier to get up on the foils up and down wind rather than reaching?

Could be that if tacking is ponderous and/or hard to do while staying on foils, a team that can do it well could have a huge advantage.
Given the placement of the foils, I think it'll be easier to get up on the foils when they're doing a broad or beam reach. Close reach/haul or dead run not so much.

So many unknowns, so very cool.
I'd say all teams will be on foils. The standard was set on the AC50s. Monos have the ability to sail closer to the wind than a multi so the engineers will have it all sussed. I imagine they'll have different foils for different wind ranges. Remembering, these boats have a very light displacement so they'll be hella overpowered. These things are going to phucking motor so whether it reaching or beating, they'll be up. The Waitemata will deliver.

Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:22 am
by merlin the happy pig
badmannotinjapan wrote: I'd say all teams will be on foils. The standard was set on the AC50s. Monos have the ability to sail closer to the wind than a multi so the engineers will have it all sussed. I imagine they'll have different foils for different wind ranges. Remembering, these boats have a very light displacement so they'll be hella overpowered. These things are going to phucking motor so whether it reaching or beating, they'll be up. The Waitemata will deliver.
I probably didn't express myself clearly.
I mean I wonder if given the tiny keel, that from a standing start they would have to power up slowly until they reach foiling speed to avoid tipping over.

I appreciate that below foiling speed they are going to be producing righting moment that increases with speed to offset the power, so as you get more speed you can apply more power.

Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:37 am
by usermame
badmannotinjapan wrote: Remembering, these boats have a very light displacement so they'll be hella overpowered. These things are going to phucking motor so whether it reaching or beating, they'll be up. The Waitemata will deliver.
But will the soft rig?

Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:16 am
by merlin the happy pig
I wonder if anyone will try to develop supercavitating foils?
Probably unlikely as the downsides (high drag at low speeds) would probably outweigh any advantages (max speed limited by aerodynamics rather than hydrodynamics)

Would be fascinating watching one boat chugging along at the back until it reached a performance crossover and then just kept on accelerating past 60.

Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:06 am
by badmannotinjapan
merlin the happy pig wrote:
badmannotinjapan wrote: I'd say all teams will be on foils. The standard was set on the AC50s. Monos have the ability to sail closer to the wind than a multi so the engineers will have it all sussed. I imagine they'll have different foils for different wind ranges. Remembering, these boats have a very light displacement so they'll be hella overpowered. These things are going to phucking motor so whether it reaching or beating, they'll be up. The Waitemata will deliver.
I probably didn't express myself clearly.
I mean I wonder if given the tiny keel, that from a standing start they would have to power up slowly until they reach foiling speed to avoid tipping over.

I appreciate that below foiling speed they are going to be producing righting moment that increases with speed to offset the power, so as you get more speed you can apply more power.
There's a good video that explains the amount of righting moment the fins and ballast produce and it's quite significant. Don't forget, they have two fins so one can be submerged while the other is providing the counter balance.

Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 5:08 am
by badmannotinjapan
merlin the happy pig wrote:I wonder if anyone will try to develop supercavitating foils?
Probably unlikely as the downsides (high drag at low speeds) would probably outweigh any advantages (max speed limited by aerodynamics rather than hydrodynamics)

Would be fascinating watching one boat chugging along at the back until it reached a performance crossover and then just kept on accelerating past 60.
Depends on the mode I guess.

Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 2:18 am
by blackblackblack
https://www.facebook.com/NYYCAmericanMa ... 642511958/

American test boat 38' looking good, pretty high tech bit of kit if you ignore the guy using the end of his steel rule to tighten something up.

Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 2:26 am
by The Native
blackblackblack wrote:https://www.facebook.com/NYYCAmericanMa ... 642511958/

American test boat 38' looking good, pretty high tech bit of kit if you ignore the guy using the end of his steel rule to tighten something up.
Awesome. Looks quick :thumbup:

Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:25 am
by badmannotinjapan
usermame wrote:
badmannotinjapan wrote: Remembering, these boats have a very light displacement so they'll be hella overpowered. These things are going to phucking motor so whether it reaching or beating, they'll be up. The Waitemata will deliver.
But will the soft rig?
Do you mean a soft wing? No reason why not. I believe the rigid wing provides more efficiency than the traditional soft sail idea but with a semi-rigid or soft wing it's almost negligent.

Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:45 am
by Enzedder
Eight additional notices of challenge for the America's Cup have been made, but some of them are likely to be ruled out.

The cut-off for late entries was 5pm on Friday.

The eight - which have not been named - are in addition to entries already received from Luna Rossa, American Magic & INEOS Team UK to race in the Prada Cup which will decide who challenges Team New Zealand for the Auld Mug early in 2021.
So, 11 syndicates have kept their options open

Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 3:56 pm
by lexpat
Enzedder wrote:
Eight additional notices of challenge for the America's Cup have been made, but some of them are likely to be ruled out.

The cut-off for late entries was 5pm on Friday.

The eight - which have not been named - are in addition to entries already received from Luna Rossa, American Magic & INEOS Team UK to race in the Prada Cup which will decide who challenges Team New Zealand for the Auld Mug early in 2021.
So, 11 syndicates have kept their options open
Stars & Stripes team USA (Long Beach YC) 5th challenger

https://www.americascup.com/en/news/105 ... ERICAS-CUP

Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2018 7:50 pm
by The Native
French can't afford it and are out.

Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:41 am
by The Native
All the Challenger series and Louis Vuitton series races from the last America's Cup is on YouTube.

Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:04 am
by Laurent
The Native wrote:French can't afford it and are out.
to be fair all the sponsor money is spent on proper sailing boats :P

pity we don't take this seriously but the ocean crossing and round the world races are were the french sponsors are spending

Image

Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:23 am
by usermame
Woo hoo. The race after the capsize is one I hadn't recorded, nor the 1st one against France. Sweet.

Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:54 am
by The Native
The America's Cup Final's series is now on YouTube as of today. Going to enjoy reliving those races.

Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:07 am
by usermame
I've finally got all ETNZ on disc...

Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:55 pm
by Yourmother
The Native wrote:The America's Cup Final's series is now on YouTube as of today. Going to enjoy reliving those races.
Good shout. That’s my afternoon sorted out.

Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:58 pm
by Kiwias
Yourmother wrote:
The Native wrote:The America's Cup Final's series is now on YouTube as of today. Going to enjoy reliving those races.
Good shout. That’s my afternoon sorted out.
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:59 pm
by Yourmother
ETNZ have a timetable for when they’re going to hit the water. Unless I missed it.

Spending a load of time on simulators. Why? Keep the cost down? Regs on how many boats you can build and don’t want to use those chips just yet? Or?

Plus, they’re the team who have designed the radical new vessel so can’t be behind.

Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 3:33 pm
by Snooze
Yourmother wrote:ETNZ have a timetable for when they’re going to hit the water. Unless I missed it.

Spending a load of time on simulators. Why? Keep the cost down? Regs on how many boats you can build and don’t want to use those chips just yet? Or?

Plus, they’re the team who have designed the radical new vessel so can’t be behind.
It has to be this. As a sailboat racing person I know where you figure shit out (and I haven't yet after 40 years of it). But, I also can't afford a multi million dollar simulator either. :lol: :x

Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:24 pm
by The Native
Yeah, it's a cost cutting measure. They did the same for the last iteration as well. Also not travelling to Bermuda until late saved money and didn't allow other teams a really good look at the boat. They've now got the advantage of not going anywhere so they can pump that extra cash into research and development and other areas. According to this article - https://thespinoff.co.nz/business/09-04 ... -aotearoa/ - it'll cost upwards of $100 million NZD for the campaign.

It also says the first ETNZ AC75 will be launched mid way through this year, so I suppose we can expect it any time now.

Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:45 pm
by Yourmother
The Native wrote:Yeah, it's a cost cutting measure. They did the same for the last iteration as well. Also not travelling to Bermuda until late saved money and didn't allow other teams a really good look at the boat. They've now got the advantage of not going anywhere so they can pump that extra cash into research and development and other areas. According to this article - https://thespinoff.co.nz/business/09-04 ... -aotearoa/ - it'll cost upwards of $100 million NZD for the campaign.

It also says the first ETNZ AC75 will be launched mid way through this year, so I suppose we can expect it any time now.
Cheers for that. Can’t wait to see it. Lucky for you, you might catch it on the harbour first hand.

Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:20 am
by badmannotinjapan
These boats are going to be epic. Close haul sailing is going to be dangerous as.

Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:36 am
by terangi48
On these new designs, is water being used as ballast on the flying keel?

Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 2:57 pm
by Snooze
terangi48 wrote:On these new designs, is water being used as ballast on the flying keel?
No. Just hydro dynamics or whatever.

Like badmannotinwhoknowsfuckingwhere said, the close haul racing could be scary. I certainly wouldn't want to be standing on the leeward side of the upwind boat.

Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:19 pm
by usermame
terangi48 wrote:On these new designs, is water being used as ballast on the flying keel?
I understand them to use the weight of steel construction for righting moment.

Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 8:45 pm
by Snooze
usermame wrote:
terangi48 wrote:On these new designs, is water being used as ballast on the flying keel?
I understand them to use the weight of steel construction for righting moment.
But it's not a lead keel like a typical boat. For the most part it's just balancing forces.

I will be interested to see what happens when (not if) one of them capsizes. No way there can be enough weight in them to drag that mast and sail (waterfilled) upright.

Re: Americas Cup - OFFICIAL match thread

Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:59 pm
by usermame
Snooze wrote:
usermame wrote:
terangi48 wrote:On these new designs, is water being used as ballast on the flying keel?
I understand them to use the weight of steel construction for righting moment.
But it's not a lead keel like a typical boat. For the most part it's just balancing forces.

I will be interested to see what happens when (not if) one of them capsizes. No way there can be enough weight in them to drag that mast and sail (waterfilled) upright.
The foils are set in various positions depending on the angle of attack and manoeuvring requirements. In normal sailing mode, the leeward foil will be in the water to provide lift and the windward foil provides righting assistance. Both foils can be employed for maximum stability in manoeuvres and difficult conditions. Furthermore, foils are planned to be self-righting in the event of a capsize.
https://www.yachtingmedia.com/magazine/ ... s-cup.html