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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:15 am 
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terryfinch wrote:
So will everyone have bicycle grinders in the next AC?

No, they've nixed it. Traditional grinders only.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:20 am 
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sonic_attack wrote:
Hindsight says TNZ had the benefit of surprising the shit out of everyone with a boat the others couldn't realistically compete with. They practically walked it in Bermuda.
My understanding is there's a lot of one design aspects now which will make it all pretty tight.

I'm sure TNZ were favourites in 2003? And we just ate shit and were humiliated.

That was the boat that needed bailing out wasn't it? And kept breaking.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:27 am 
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This is warming up nicely. I hope coverage of the races will be comprehensive.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:13 pm 
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dinsdale wrote:
sonic_attack wrote:
Hindsight says TNZ had the benefit of surprising the shit out of everyone with a boat the others couldn't realistically compete with. They practically walked it in Bermuda.
My understanding is there's a lot of one design aspects now which will make it all pretty tight.

I'm sure TNZ were favourites in 2003? And we just ate shit and were humiliated.

That was the boat that needed bailing out wasn't it? And kept breaking.

Not necessarily favourites once ButterCoutts and the tight five bailed.

Black Magic was actually a very very quick boat but was tuned all wrong with some design flaws. The Millennium rig was a great idea in theory but couldn't handle the seas.

Our biggest issue was Sir Peter.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:19 pm 
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The Native wrote:
terryfinch wrote:
So will everyone have bicycle grinders in the next AC?

No, they've nixed it. Traditional grinders only.


It seems an odd decision.
an innovative idea, why lock this down?

Also given the general opinion that these things will be incredibly hard to sail, I would have thought having hands free for a distributed control system would be even more vital than the last time.

:?:


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:27 pm 
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merlin the happy pig wrote:
The Native wrote:
terryfinch wrote:
So will everyone have bicycle grinders in the next AC?

No, they've nixed it. Traditional grinders only.


It seems an odd decision.
an innovative idea, why lock this down?

Also given the general opinion that these things will be incredibly hard to sail, I would have thought having hands free for a distributed control system would be even more vital than the last time.

:?:


They wanted to get back to using sailors rather than cyclists. Not sure why they think they will get sailors just because there are grinders (gym rats), but that was their statement. But the monohull won't have the space for grinders so I think it's a moot point. And isn't the foresail cloth again? I seem to remember something about that. But I think the lack of requirement for a spinnaker is an opportunity missed. The deck work required for gybe sets etc is where sailors earn their worth.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:37 pm 
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Snooze wrote:
merlin the happy pig wrote:
The Native wrote:
terryfinch wrote:
So will everyone have bicycle grinders in the next AC?

No, they've nixed it. Traditional grinders only.


It seems an odd decision.
an innovative idea, why lock this down?

Also given the general opinion that these things will be incredibly hard to sail, I would have thought having hands free for a distributed control system would be even more vital than the last time.

:?:


They wanted to get back to using sailors rather than cyclists. Not sure why they think they will get sailors just because there are grinders (gym rats), but that was their statement. But the monohull won't have the space for grinders so I think it's a moot point. And isn't the foresail cloth again? I seem to remember something about that. But I think the lack of requirement for a spinnaker is an opportunity missed. The deck work required for gybe sets etc is where sailors earn their worth.

Space? It's a 75 footer. The same as the IACCs. They need grinders to push hydraulic fluid. Both sails will be cloth but I believe they are going for a cloth wing on the main.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:25 pm 
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badmannotinjapan wrote:
Snooze wrote:
merlin the happy pig wrote:
The Native wrote:
terryfinch wrote:
So will everyone have bicycle grinders in the next AC?

No, they've nixed it. Traditional grinders only.


It seems an odd decision.
an innovative idea, why lock this down?

Also given the general opinion that these things will be incredibly hard to sail, I would have thought having hands free for a distributed control system would be even more vital than the last time.

:?:


They wanted to get back to using sailors rather than cyclists. Not sure why they think they will get sailors just because there are grinders (gym rats), but that was their statement. But the monohull won't have the space for grinders so I think it's a moot point. And isn't the foresail cloth again? I seem to remember something about that. But I think the lack of requirement for a spinnaker is an opportunity missed. The deck work required for gybe sets etc is where sailors earn their worth.

Space? It's a 75 footer. The same as the IACCs. They need grinders to push hydraulic fluid. Both sails will be cloth but I believe they are going for a cloth wing on the main.


Yip, I've sailed the 65 footers and no way there's room for much apart from those controlling the sails. Nothing forward of the mast, and last 20ft taken up with helm and transom.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2018 10:07 pm 
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Snooze wrote:
Yip, I've sailed the 65 footers and no way there's room for much apart from those controlling the sails. Nothing forward of the mast, and last 20ft taken up with helm and transom.

Deck layout will be vital for balance.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:55 am 
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Didn't realise this but J.Spit has jumped ship to LR.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:29 am 
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badmannotinjapan wrote:
Didn't realise this but J.Spit has jumped ship to LR.

His ship sank to be fair


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:10 pm 
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Yourmother wrote:
badmannotinjapan wrote:
Didn't realise this but J.Spit has jumped ship to LR.

His ship sank to be fair

Still, he's an AC whore.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:37 pm 
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badmannotinjapan wrote:
Snooze wrote:
Yip, I've sailed the 65 footers and no way there's room for much apart from those controlling the sails. Nothing forward of the mast, and last 20ft taken up with helm and transom.

Deck layout will be vital for balance.


I'm still in "how the fudge" mode. The side pressures on the fin must be huge (somebody in fluid dynamics can chime in any time) to be able to help keep the boat laterally (port/starboard) stable, given there's 400,000 sq m of sail above the water. And the skillz of the crew being able to keep it fore/aft stable is equally cool.

I'm gonna try and time my next trip home to coincide with this.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:40 pm 
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Snooze wrote:
badmannotinjapan wrote:
Snooze wrote:
Yip, I've sailed the 65 footers and no way there's room for much apart from those controlling the sails. Nothing forward of the mast, and last 20ft taken up with helm and transom.

Deck layout will be vital for balance.


I'm still in "how the fudge" mode. The side pressures on the fin must be huge (somebody in fluid dynamics can chime in any time) to be able to help keep the boat laterally (port/starboard) stable, given there's 400,000 sq m of sail above the water. And the skillz of the crew being able to keep it fore/aft stable is equally cool.

I'm gonna try and time my next trip home to coincide with this.

Similar to keeping a plane in the air. 250,000kgs of fuel plus the passengers, cargo weight etc....


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:25 pm 
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badmannotinjapan wrote:
Snooze wrote:
badmannotinjapan wrote:
Snooze wrote:
Yip, I've sailed the 65 footers and no way there's room for much apart from those controlling the sails. Nothing forward of the mast, and last 20ft taken up with helm and transom.

Deck layout will be vital for balance.


I'm still in "how the fudge" mode. The side pressures on the fin must be huge (somebody in fluid dynamics can chime in any time) to be able to help keep the boat laterally (port/starboard) stable, given there's 400,000 sq m of sail above the water. And the skillz of the crew being able to keep it fore/aft stable is equally cool.

I'm gonna try and time my next trip home to coincide with this.

Similar to keeping a plane in the air. 250,000kgs of fuel plus the passengers, cargo weight etc....


One is to assume these boats will be on a conveyor . . .


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:27 pm 
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Ineos Team GB are quick off the mark in case others haven’t seen their scaled down version.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pZPWHWK0TT0

Looks exciting.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:08 am 
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How the foils will raise and lower.

https://youtu.be/_B37zmJpBv4


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:09 am 
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The new AC boats will be bloody exciting.

Good article here explaining why/how the AC75 will be faster than the AC50 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bNO0t2s02I


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:43 am 
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exciting barely describes it. There won't have been much harbour sailing thats seen the public being able to watch yachts whizzing around at 40+ knot.
If they get some days that will see 50+ knot, well...


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:48 am 
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usermame wrote:
How the foils will raise and lower.

https://youtu.be/_B37zmJpBv4


Crikey. We used to use something similar years ago in lift design, but this is the dog's biscuits.

Things have moved on a bit!


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:11 am 
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Yourmother wrote:
Ineos Team GB are quick off the mark in case others haven’t seen their scaled down version.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pZPWHWK0TT0

Looks exciting.


They are.going to be helluva team. Limitless budget basically.

This whole thing still pisses me off though. What is it with these pricks like Ellison and bertarelli? They build their teams and franchises then piss off in a strop when they lose. Don't even have any continuity. Now we have another split between multi and single hulls. Like two different titles/comps.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:33 am 
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Wot? There's another America's Cup?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:17 pm 
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usermame wrote:
How the foils will raise and lower.

https://youtu.be/_B37zmJpBv4

So no tacking duels...


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:23 pm 
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badmannotinjapan wrote:
usermame wrote:
How the foils will raise and lower.

https://youtu.be/_B37zmJpBv4

So no tacking duels...

Looks unlikely. It's why I have always thought that the races should be in monohulls.

Much more technical fun than brute force.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:35 pm 
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globus wrote:
badmannotinjapan wrote:
usermame wrote:
How the foils will raise and lower.

https://youtu.be/_B37zmJpBv4

So no tacking duels...

Looks unlikely. It's why I have always thought that the races should be in monohulls.

Much more technical fun than brute force.


They are mono hulls.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:31 pm 
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globus wrote:
badmannotinjapan wrote:
usermame wrote:
How the foils will raise and lower.

https://youtu.be/_B37zmJpBv4

So no tacking duels...

Looks unlikely. It's why I have always thought that the races should be in monohulls.

Much more technical fun than brute force.

I suppose it depends on the mode of sailing as well...


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:07 pm 
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badmannotinjapan wrote:
globus wrote:
badmannotinjapan wrote:
usermame wrote:
How the foils will raise and lower.

https://youtu.be/_B37zmJpBv4

So no tacking duels...

Looks unlikely. It's why I have always thought that the races should be in monohulls.

Much more technical fun than brute force.

I suppose it depends on the mode of sailing as well...

And in the last AC there were a few tacking "duels". But the boats were so fast that it didn't resemble the ponderous stuff that was seen in the old monos.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:39 pm 
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The Native wrote:
badmannotinjapan wrote:
globus wrote:
badmannotinjapan wrote:
usermame wrote:
How the foils will raise and lower.

https://youtu.be/_B37zmJpBv4

So no tacking duels...

Looks unlikely. It's why I have always thought that the races should be in monohulls.

Much more technical fun than brute force.

I suppose it depends on the mode of sailing as well...

And in the last AC there were a few tacking "duels". But the boats were so fast that it didn't resemble the ponderous stuff that was seen in the old monos.


Yes the starts were a brilliant demonstration too.

The no look gybe was a stupendous brilliant moment in the America’s cup.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:43 pm 
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Seneca of the Night wrote:
Yourmother wrote:
Ineos Team GB are quick off the mark in case others haven’t seen their scaled down version.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pZPWHWK0TT0

Looks exciting.


They are.going to be helluva team. Limitless budget basically.

This whole thing still pisses me off though. What is it with these pricks like Ellison and bertarelli? They build their teams and franchises then piss off in a strop when they lose. Don't even have any continuity. Now we have another split between multi and single hulls. Like two different titles/comps.


Portsmouth is only 30 mins away from me.. Would love to see one of these things fly. Perhaps I could become a spy.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:14 pm 
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Still think there's going to be an area of concern regards the cutting scythe in the air though. A piece of equipment failure or human error at the wrong moment and somebody could well be for the chop. They'll need specific rules about distance, passing, crossing et all, shirely.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:22 am 
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The Native wrote:
badmannotinjapan wrote:
globus wrote:
badmannotinjapan wrote:
usermame wrote:
How the foils will raise and lower.

https://youtu.be/_B37zmJpBv4

So no tacking duels...

Looks unlikely. It's why I have always thought that the races should be in monohulls.

Much more technical fun than brute force.

I suppose it depends on the mode of sailing as well...

And in the last AC there were a few tacking "duels". But the boats were so fast that it didn't resemble the ponderous stuff that was seen in the old monos.
Exactly. The duel was over after the first exchange.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:44 am 
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The Native wrote:
badmannotinjapan wrote:
globus wrote:
badmannotinjapan wrote:
usermame wrote:
How the foils will raise and lower.

https://youtu.be/_B37zmJpBv4

So no tacking duels...

Looks unlikely. It's why I have always thought that the races should be in monohulls.

Much more technical fun than brute force.

I suppose it depends on the mode of sailing as well...

And in the last AC there were a few tacking "duels". But the boats were so fast that it didn't resemble the ponderous stuff that was seen in the old monos.

My point was, if the foils take 15 seconds to position then tacking duels will be nixed in order to get up.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 5:03 am 
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badmannotinjapan wrote:
The Native wrote:
badmannotinjapan wrote:
globus wrote:
badmannotinjapan wrote:
So no tacking duels...

Looks unlikely. It's why I have always thought that the races should be in monohulls.

Much more technical fun than brute force.

I suppose it depends on the mode of sailing as well...

And in the last AC there were a few tacking "duels". But the boats were so fast that it didn't resemble the ponderous stuff that was seen in the old monos.

My point was, if the foils take 15 seconds to position then tacking duels will be nixed in order to get up.

Unless one team is covering the other for advantageous wind position so as to set their foils first in a better breeze. I think there will be tacking duel, just not as we recognise them and they won't be lengthy or have nearly the frequency compared to the old mono-hulls.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:59 am 
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They must have pencilled in longer courses hopefully, or extended the legs between pins.
Bermuda races were pretty short really. Yo were just kinda getting into it and it was all over.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 4:50 pm 
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The Native wrote:
Unless one team is covering the other for advantageous wind position so as to set their foils first in a better breeze. I think there will be tacking duel, just not as we recognise them and they won't be lengthy or have nearly the frequency compared to the old mono-hulls.

If we're in displacement mode we may see it happening...


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:55 pm 
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badmannotinjapan wrote:
The Native wrote:
Unless one team is covering the other for advantageous wind position so as to set their foils first in a better breeze. I think there will be tacking duel, just not as we recognise them and they won't be lengthy or have nearly the frequency compared to the old mono-hulls.

If we're in displacement mode we may see it happening...

Yeah, that's what I mean. Could definitely happen in the start box like we saw in the last iteration of the AC.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:01 am 
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The Native wrote:
badmannotinjapan wrote:
The Native wrote:
Unless one team is covering the other for advantageous wind position so as to set their foils first in a better breeze. I think there will be tacking duel, just not as we recognise them and they won't be lengthy or have nearly the frequency compared to the old mono-hulls.

If we're in displacement mode we may see it happening...

Yeah, that's what I mean. Could definitely happen in the start box like we saw in the last iteration of the AC.

Possible although the entry rules almost discourage engagement.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:49 am 
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badmannotinjapan wrote:
The Native wrote:
Unless one team is covering the other for advantageous wind position so as to set their foils first in a better breeze. I think there will be tacking duel, just not as we recognise them and they won't be lengthy or have nearly the frequency compared to the old mono-hulls.

If we're in displacement mode we may see it happening...


I wonder if given the lack of static stability whether it is easier to get up on the foils up and down wind rather than reaching?

Could be that if tacking is ponderous and/or hard to do while staying on foils, a team that can do it well could have a huge advantage.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:55 am 
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merlin the happy pig wrote:
badmannotinjapan wrote:
The Native wrote:
Unless one team is covering the other for advantageous wind position so as to set their foils first in a better breeze. I think there will be tacking duel, just not as we recognise them and they won't be lengthy or have nearly the frequency compared to the old mono-hulls.

If we're in displacement mode we may see it happening...


I wonder if given the lack of static stability whether it is easier to get up on the foils up and down wind rather than reaching?

Could be that if tacking is ponderous and/or hard to do while staying on foils, a team that can do it well could have a huge advantage.

Given the placement of the foils, I think it'll be easier to get up on the foils when they're doing a broad or beam reach. Close reach/haul or dead run not so much.

So many unknowns, so very cool.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:10 am 
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The Native wrote:
merlin the happy pig wrote:
badmannotinjapan wrote:
The Native wrote:
Unless one team is covering the other for advantageous wind position so as to set their foils first in a better breeze. I think there will be tacking duel, just not as we recognise them and they won't be lengthy or have nearly the frequency compared to the old mono-hulls.

If we're in displacement mode we may see it happening...


I wonder if given the lack of static stability whether it is easier to get up on the foils up and down wind rather than reaching?

Could be that if tacking is ponderous and/or hard to do while staying on foils, a team that can do it well could have a huge advantage.

Given the placement of the foils, I think it'll be easier to get up on the foils when they're doing a broad or beam reach. Close reach/haul or dead run not so much.

So many unknowns, so very cool.

I'd say all teams will be on foils. The standard was set on the AC50s. Monos have the ability to sail closer to the wind than a multi so the engineers will have it all sussed. I imagine they'll have different foils for different wind ranges. Remembering, these boats have a very light displacement so they'll be hella overpowered. These things are going to phucking motor so whether it reaching or beating, they'll be up. The Waitemata will deliver.


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