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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:27 pm 
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advice pls on what to look out for & how to manage Surveryor claims chaps questions:

Situation: I own a 2 bed flat above a high st shop, 1920'-30's build, access from the rear up some steps - the 'garden' is a 17m flat roof above the flat (ex shop) below). The roof is a bit 'bubbly' in places, but was in ok enough condition, and hadn't leaked before in recent past as far as we know (believe there was some historic leak 5+ years ago). its a kind of tarmac cover, with a few ventilation 'hats' on it - doesn't look like it was done recently, but doesn't look as if it was 20+ years ago either as the edges all seem sound.

the v heavy rains at end jan, caused a leak & minor cosmetic damage - we think its from one of the 'hats' - short term fix we put a tarpaulin over it.

Now, surveyor comes round on Friday to asses did the v heavy rains cause it (so we can claim on buildings insurance) or was it just a leak because the roof is old (claim will get rejected). how can we disguise the latter, which would have been the freeholders job to maintain since we bought the flat 2 years ago. The freeholder seems to be a slightly dodgy Asian run company who took 6 weeks of repeated chasing to even tell us who the insurers were, and even then only sent a scan of the cover cert, not any contact details or anything. Safe to assume they will have done the minimum to maintain the property, for example external painting is supposed to be every 5 years and this has clearly not been done. However, the flat and building is basically in v good condition, and has a newish roof.

no existing leaks were disclosed when the property was bought by us 2 & a bit years ago, survey was just standard one for mortgage not a full structural one.

TLDR how can I make sure we get heavy rain damage money from the buildings insurance.


Last edited by backrow on Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:32 pm 
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Hang on, you're using a felted and tarred flat roof as a garden? People are walking on it?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:35 pm 
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I walk on our fiberglass one to clean it. Should I not :(


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:35 pm 
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happyhooker wrote:
Hang on, you're using a felted and tarred flat roof as a garden? People are walking on it?


yes & no - its not currently used as a garden as such, and the path from the stairs to the flat front roof does have a separate heavy rubber path overlay type thing. having said that, there is a table & 2 chairs on there, and a new portable charcoal BBQ there that the last tenants left, so clearly it has been used in part as a recreational garden.

The surface doesn't look like its worn or used or goalposts left or anything, and the surface is hard, not soft / tearable.

from what you are suggesting though, hiding the BBQ and table & chairs would be a good first step !


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:37 pm 
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Tricky. Not sure. The insurers will call in an assessor, who will try and slough off any claim.

Been down this route before. I just ended up in forking out for a "re-tarmac" of the flat roof.

We ended up by sticking up a sort of attic. This means we have an increased rental income!

I think you are on a loser, but, good luck.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:40 pm 
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Without seeing it I couldn't be certain but I'd be wary of walking on most flat roofs on a regular basis unless they'd been specifically designed/built for it, which seems doubtful.

The odd bit of maintenance access is fine, but I normally try and spread the load.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:49 pm 
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happyhooker wrote:
Without seeing it I couldn't be certain but I'd be wary of walking on most flat roofs on a regular basis unless they'd been specifically designed/built for it, which seems doubtful.

The odd bit of maintenance access is fine, but I normally try and spread the load.


ok dokes - I have a pic, tonight I will upload it. its approx. 70m2 in total, 17m x 4 and a bit - what we are planning on doing is this, and what we've had our friendly builder to quote for:

fixing leak, levelling everything off with batterns, to prep it and make it properly flat but with a tiny drainage angle - £700 (at present because of the bumps in places, there can be sitting water post a heavy rain in places - but mostly it does run off the sides)

ultra heavy rubber tiles for everything - £2700

decking £6500 (more expensive option is fibreglass at £7500)

HOWEVER we have acquired some heavy duty artificial turf, 10x10m roll, so will be putting that down the end, and reduced area of decking to lower the cost down from £6500

EDIT - its only really the £700 bit and if possiblly the 2700 bit we'd like the insurance to chip in for, as this will fix any leak properly - the decking / making it a proper garden bit is an improvement and this not an insurance claim or even sadly a tax offset as we not replacing like for like)


am all for spreading the load !

//me

8===> - - -


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:55 pm 
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backrow wrote:

ultra heavy rubber tiles for everything - £2700

decking £6500 (more expensive option is fibreglass at £7500)

HOWEVER we have acquired some heavy duty artificial turf, 10x10m roll, so will be putting that down the end, and reduced area of decking to lower the cost down from £6500



Heavy, wooden decking, heavy-duty.....and you're only talking about some extra batons?? I suggest you need to do some major structural work to the roof before adding any of the above extras, let alone allowing people to sit out there. :uhoh:


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:01 pm 
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Flat roof coverage has gone a long way since the tar and gravel days.

We don't have any more as all the houses are tiled. We look after our tenants. We have an annual meet up. This year it's here.

I hope the weather is ok, as I'm doing the barbeque.

I'm having saxophone lessons to make sure I'm on it on the evening. Bought new reeds.

Got a cracking vocalist. She is mint. Used to work for me. Her daughter is a stunning drummer. Thankfully I shall not be embarassed as she's in LA at the mo.

Life is good when you listen to music.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:13 pm 
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Sandstorm wrote:
backrow wrote:

ultra heavy rubber tiles for everything - £2700

decking £6500 (more expensive option is fibreglass at £7500)

HOWEVER we have acquired some heavy duty artificial turf, 10x10m roll, so will be putting that down the end, and reduced area of decking to lower the cost down from £6500



Heavy, wooden decking, heavy-duty.....and you're only talking about some extra batons?? I suggest you need to do some major structural work to the roof before adding any of the above extras, let alone allowing people to sit out there. :uhoh:


it would have been built with the Flat access in mind as the stairs, flat access point etc are all original. Plenty of other similar buildings in the area have already been converted similarly, a couple even have garden sheds up there ! we will tell them 'no jazuzzi's or pools' but the weight of the other things will be find I'm sure (there is a steel fence around the roof that is that pre-war seaside balustrade / council house chunky design, that can't be light yet is already there).

in other words, its not just a roof that we've decided to start walking across and use.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:14 pm 
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Location: Chickenrunning...
:thumbup:


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:15 pm 
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Shouldn't the thread title say "& OTHER building experts"? :blush:


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:16 pm 
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Yer Man wrote:
Shouldn't the thread title say "& OTHER building experts"? :blush:

I was letting that slide


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:17 pm 
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even better, linky to the flat, 2nd pic shows the roof in question - judging from the brickwork in another pic that whole lower level is a later build to the original terrace of shops & flats.

https://www.haart.co.uk/buying/2-bedroo ... 064300190/


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:18 pm 
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happyhooker wrote:
Yer Man wrote:
Shouldn't the thread title say "& OTHER building experts"? :blush:

I was letting that slide


lolz, inadvertent diss, soz
:thumbup:


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:29 pm 
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I'm not a building expert. But I look after a lot of Grade I and II buildings here.

As you should.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:48 pm 
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At a glance I think you'll be lucky to get anything.

It looks old to me and some sealant/flashing might have spilt. Not really my area of expertise, think flashman is the poster you need to speak to.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:20 pm 
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happyhooker wrote:
At a glance I think you'll be lucky to get anything.

It looks old to me and some sealant/flashing might have spilt. Not really my area of expertise, think flashman is the poster you need to speak to.


ta
suspect as much, but worth a go - and if insurer says no then its complaints to the freeholder time for not maintaining it like they should do. just seems a bit suss to me that it was the storms that kicked off a leak, surely if it was just old and leaky it would have been leaky before when it rained ?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:16 pm 
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If you renew a flat roof now, you come under Building Regs which means that you have to include insulation to meet current standards.
The best solution that I have found with these roofs is to use an overlay system.
I use Desmopol, which is a Liquid polyurethane Coating.
It comes in 20 Litre Drums to which you add a 2 litre tin of accelerator. You mix it with a plasterers whisk that you stick on the end of a cordless drill and then apply with a roller.You then roll out a mesh over it and apply more Desmopol.
You have 40 minutes before it goes off. You can apply slate granules to give a non slip finish. It comes with a Ten Year guarantee.
If you are skilled enough to apply emulsion to a wall you can do this!
You just need a supply of rubber gloves and jeans and boots you do not care about.
You have to ring around because it sells out quickly.
Two men could easily do 50 to 75m2 a day
Money for Old Rope as they say!


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:02 pm 
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Cool, will show my builder this.

I forgot to mention these hat things stick up in the air so really we want these removed, and working vents put in the side of the building (flat below has damp problems even before the leak)
Builders plan was 18mm interlocking wood tiles to make it all level, 6mm membrane over this to make it watertight, and decking & fake turf over this to protect the membrane.

As ever, I appreciate the responses.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:13 am 
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happyhooker wrote:

The odd bit of maintenance access is fine, but I normally try and spread the load.


So does Yeeb. All over a sleeping girl's back.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:59 am 
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fatcat wrote:
happyhooker wrote:

The odd bit of maintenance access is fine, but I normally try and spread the load.


So does Yeeb. All over a sleeping girl's back.


Already done that gag mate - but nice to see your appearance on a thread about things ‘ old and leaky’


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:05 am 
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backrow wrote:
access from the rear...


Image


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:11 pm 
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happyhooker wrote:
At a glance I think you'll be lucky to get anything.

It looks old to me and some sealant/flashing might have spilt. Not really my area of expertise, think flashman is the poster you need to speak to.


Agreed. There is ponding, not good on that type of roof and it also looks like it has sustained UV damage (bituminous membranes, i.e. felt roof are not UV stable without a protection course). It could be recoverable using an overlay (a torch-on probably) or a recoat, however the substrate and structure would need to be checked for damage, which is inherently destructive = new membrane.

Most bituminous roofing membranes are not trafficable without a protection course (mineral chip is not sufficient). Nor are bituminous membranes suitable as roof gardens (a green roof) unless specifically designed as such, in which case it would likely already be a green roof given that the system is considerably more expensive than a basic bituminous felt roof.

The vents are there for a very good reason. You can not remove the vents without changing the type of base sheet used, i.e. remove the cap sheet (membrane) and base sheet, if there is one.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:15 pm 
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The vents are probably dummies and not doing their job, our plan is to put vents into the side all around to provide airflow . We think the leak is in the central vent.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:52 pm 
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backrow wrote:
The vents are probably dummies and not doing their job, our plan is to put vents into the side all around to provide airflow . We think the leak is in the central vent.


Yeeb, that begs the question of why the vents were installed in the first place. You will also need to ascertain what they are venting, the roof space or the underside of the membrane/substrate.

BTW, in my experience polyurethanes (moisture cure though) don't play especially nice with bitumens/asphalts in the medium to long term. You should also establish if the roof has already been overlaid and if so, why has it failed - an inherent fault, past its in service life, damage, etc.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:47 pm 
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Cool

Appreciate the words , will let you know how it pans out, if they can only pay for the water damage in the flat below that would be a bonus , it’s a mouldy flat with two lesbians and a young child in, their landlord hasn’t done a thing on their place in five years . I will clear their gutters out (insert joke here)


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:08 am 
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No worries. A precautionary approach and best practice are often somewhat removed from reality. :thumbup:


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:45 am 
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backrow wrote:
Cool

Appreciate the words , will let you know how it pans out, if they can only pay for the water damage in the flat below that would be a bonus , it’s a mouldy flat with two lesbians and a young child in, their landlord hasn’t done a thing on their place in five years . I will clear their gutters out (insert joke here)


The vents in the roof are probably flange vents then. And they will be to expel the phenomenal amounts of moistness being generated in the room below.

HTH.


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