Planet Rugby Forum

as a result of Wales' win over Ireland. all-time lowest ranking spot, surely?

1 New Zealand 94.78
2 England 91.02
3 Australia 86.35
4 Ireland 83.18 (-1.00)
5 Scotland 82.18
6 ↑ (7) Wales 82.16 (+1.00)
7 ↓ (6) South Africa 81.79
8 France 81.21 (+0.64)
9 Argentina 79.91
10 Fiji 76.46
11 Japan 74.22
12 Georgia 74.14
13 Tonga 71.94
14 ↑ (15) Samoa 71.25
15 ↓ (14) Italy 71.17 (-0.64)
16 Romania 68.93
17 USA 66.79
18 ↑ (21) Spain 63.05 (+1.93)
19 ↓ (18) Namibia 62.78
20 ↓ (19) Russia 61.75

Sadly, that's what losses to Ireland, England and Italy deserve.

Tighthead wrote:Sadly, that's what losses to Ireland, England and Italy deserve.

And Wales.

No fan of the sport is happy about this and I can't see the trend reversing.

World Rugby needs to increase the residency requirement or it will be an even quicker and more severe decline.

Honestly, I didn't think it was that bad the Boks lost in Rome a few months back. I thought, well, obviously it's a terrible result and they're much better than this but, well, Italy played out of their skins. Fine.

But now... seeing FRANCE has put 40 past them in Rome, and looking at all the other results (Ireland's 63 points in Rome...), I look back at the Boks and wonder just how awful they really are now.

They've regressed in quality all throughout the season with regularity:
- first, they barely win that series vs Ireland, but win it though.
- then, they lose games badly during the Chugby Rampionpish.
- only to end on NZ putting 60 past them at home.
- smashed in England
- finally, lose in Rome. First time ever...

Boks still have the talent, just need to move on from Coetzee.

I fully expect all kinds of dirty tricks from the Russians (hacking included) in order to not relinquish their position on the log to us.

Scotland not lose a few points after defeat to eng?

Rugby2023 wrote:Boks still have the talent, just need to move on from Coetzee.

nardol wrote:Scotland not lose a few points after defeat to eng?

Nope, they had a free run. Next week Wales and France could swap places

SA and France both living in the past and seem to think self harming is a virtue.

Ireland drop to 5th if they lose to England next week.... ?
Scotland in top pool of seeds for next wc.... Wow

nardol wrote:Ireland drop to 5th if they lose to England next week.... ?
Scotland in top pool of seeds for next wc.... Wow

And chance that France or SA might drop into 3rd seed for RWC draw?

nardol wrote:Ireland drop to 5th if they lose to England next week.... ?
Scotland in top pool of seeds for next wc.... Wow

No, they stay ahead of Scotland. Scotland gets nothing for beating Italy

Torquemada 1420 wrote:

nardol wrote:Ireland drop to 5th if they lose to England next week.... ?
Scotland in top pool of seeds for next wc.... Wow

And chance that France or SA might drop into 3rd seed for RWC draw?

If France lose by more than 15. If France overtake SA Wales will drop below SA, so SA stays on 7

Jensrsa wrote:

nardol wrote:Ireland drop to 5th if they lose to England next week.... ?
Scotland in top pool of seeds for next wc.... Wow

No, they stay ahead of Scotland. Scotland gets nothing for beating Italy

Correct. It's between Wales and Ireland for 4th.

If Wales win by 15 or less they need an English win over Ireland. If Wales win by more than 15, they still go 4th even if Ireland draw. My guess is France and England will win narrowly, and so Ireland retains 4th.

https://rawling.github.io/wr-calc/

Tehui wrote:

Rugby2023 wrote:Boks still have the talent, just need to move on from Coetzee.

Ali's Choice wrote:

Tehui wrote:

Rugby2023 wrote:Boks still have the talent, just need to move on from Coetzee.

(what are we laughing at?)

Jensrsa wrote:

Torquemada 1420 wrote:

nardol wrote:Ireland drop to 5th if they lose to England next week.... ?
Scotland in top pool of seeds for next wc.... Wow

And chance that France or SA might drop into 3rd seed for RWC draw?

If France lose by more than 15. If France overtake SA Wales will drop below SA, so SA stays on 7

Thx

If Georgia are 12th in the rankings and Italy 15th, why are they not in Europe's premier international competition?

nicebutdim wrote:If Georgia are 12th in the rankings and Italy 15th, why are they not in Europe's premier international competition?

Because italy are a better team but get less ranking points because they almost only play t1 teams

WR need to grow some stones and threaten SA with sanctions if they don't stop racially biased Springnok selections.

If SARFU or anybody else has a problem with that, WR should authorise either a SA invitational side or exile side.

Flametop wrote:WR need to grow some stones and threaten SA with sanctions if they don't stop racially biased Springnok selections.

agreed

it wasn't right when blacks were excluded and it's not right that whites are now being excluded

Ali's Choice wrote:

Tehui wrote:

Rugby2023 wrote:Boks still have the talent, just need to move on from Coetzee.

Having seen the transformation in Wille Le Roux since arriving at Wasps I think 2023 has a point - Coetzee is a dreadful coach by the looks of it

MaccTaff wrote:

Ali's Choice wrote:

Tehui wrote:

Rugby2023 wrote:Boks still have the talent, just need to move on from Coetzee.

(what are we laughing at?)

No so long ago people were laughing at England too. SA do have the talent.

It's hard work here currently. Don't knock it. We are working on our own towards solutions

openclashXX wrote:

Flametop wrote:WR need to grow some stones and threaten SA with sanctions if they don't stop racially biased Springnok selections.

agreed

it wasn't right when blacks were excluded and it's not right that whites are now being excluded

I still wonder what any self respecting person would accept any role on the basis of being a token selection?

"Good news Kunta Kinte. You're in. Because you are black."
"Oh thank you massah."

Torquemada 1420 wrote:

openclashXX wrote:

Flametop wrote:WR need to grow some stones and threaten SA with sanctions if they don't stop racially biased Springnok selections.

agreed

it wasn't right when blacks were excluded and it's not right that whites are now being excluded

I still wonder what any self respecting person would accept any role on the basis of being a token selection?

"Good news Kunta Kinte. You're in. Because you are black."
"Its Taulupe."

Fixed.

Potential changes next week:

Current:
1 New Zealand 94.78
2 England 91.02
3 Australia 86.35
4 Ireland 83.18
5 Scotland 82.18
6 Wales 82.16
7 South Africa 81.79
8 France 80.57
9 Argentina 79.91

England, Wales win <15
1 New Zealand 94.78
2 England 91.02 (91.54)
3 Australia 86.35
4(6) Wales 82.16 (83.30)
5(4) Ireland 83.18 (82.66)
6(5) Scotland 82.18
7 South Africa 81.79
8(9) Argentina 79.91
9(8) France 80.57 (79.43)

England, France win <15
1 New Zealand 94.78
2 England 91.02 (91.54)
3 Australia 86.35
4 Ireland 83.18 (82.66)
5 Scotland 82.18
6(7) South Africa 81.79
7(8) France 80.57 (81.43)
8(6) Wales 82.16 (81.30)
9 Argentina 79.91

England, France win >15
1 New Zealand 94.78
2 England 91.02 (91.79)
3 Australia 86.35
4 Ireland 83.18 (82.41)
5 Scotland 82.18
6(8) France 80.57 (81.86)
7 South Africa 81.79
8(6) Wales 82.16 (80.87)
9 Argentina 79.91

E&OE

7 is a fair reflection

Jensrsa wrote:Potential changes next week:

Current:
1 New Zealand 94.78
2 England 91.02
3 Australia 86.35
4 Ireland 83.18
5 Scotland 82.18
6 Wales 82.16
7 South Africa 81.79
8 France 80.57
9 Argentina 79.91

Whilst it does seem like a complete disaster - and SA rugby is shit at the moment - look at 10 years ago. I would have said Aus is in just as much trouble - but it's not the case.

I think it's more competitive - the average of the top 9 is almost 2 points higher than 10 years back...

POSITION TEAMS POINTS
1 (1) NEW ZEALAND 94.59 - Same
2 (2) FRANCE 85.60 - Lost ground badly
3 (3) AUSTRALIA 85.50 - Same
4 (4) SOUTH AFRICA 84.69 - Lost ground badly
5 (5) IRELAND 84.61 - better
6 (7) ENGLAND 80.55 - hugely better
7 (6) ARGENTINA 79.07 - same
8 (9) ITALY 76.02 - lost ground badly - now 71.81
9 (8) WALES 74.88 - hugely better
10 (10) SCOTLAND 73.87 - hugely better

KG

With France, Arg and Scotland below is, we can go to ten this year right?
Probably depends heavily on Scotland's mid year schedule
Luckily they'll be full strength wherever theyre going

Cartman wrote:With France, Arg and Scotland below is, we can go to ten this year right?
Probably depends heavily on Scotland's mid year schedule
Luckily they'll be full strength wherever theyre going

Scotland plays Oz(1) and Fiji (1) - Only the Oz game will have an effect unless they lose to Fiji
Ireland plays USA (1) and Japan (2) - No effect unless Ireland lose
England plays Pumas (2) - this could cost them as they should have a number of players with the B&I Lions. Pumas could gain on SA
Wales play Tonga (1) and Samoa (1) - Losses only will effect

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_mid- ... rnationals

It's a sad state of affairs, I can't imagine any genuine rugby fan would take any delight in the Boks fall through the rankings.

Someone mentioned on another thread that the recent record runs by the All Blacks and England are due, to some extent, by the weakness of the Boks. I tend to agree.

I think we will see a bit of a Bok backlash this year. Maybe not beating the All Blacks, but I hope we can get back to second in the Rugby Championship, which should see us climb the rankings.

handyman wrote:I think we will see a bit of a Bok backlash this year. Maybe not beating the All Blacks, but I hope we can get back to second in the Rugby Championship, which should see us climb the rankings.

Hope isn't a strategy mate.

Your player depth is the weakest that it's ever been. You apparently have a shit coach who I'm told was appointed because of politics, not ability. And every year more and more of your finest young players flee the country, in search of fortune and safety. You lost every game on last year's EOYT ffs. And the year before you lost to f**king Japan. Things are only going to get worse for South African Rugby.

openclashXX wrote:as a result of Wales' win over Ireland. all-time lowest ranking spot, surely?

1 New Zealand 94.78
2 England 91.02
3 Australia 86.35
4 Ireland 83.18 (-1.00)
5 Scotland 82.18
6 ↑ (7) Wales 82.16 (+1.00)
7 ↓ (6) South Africa 81.79
8 France 81.21 (+0.64)
9 Argentina 79.91
10 Fiji 76.46
11 Japan 74.22
12 Georgia 74.14
13 Tonga 71.94
14 ↑ (15) Samoa 71.25
15 ↓ (14) Italy 71.17 (-0.64)
16 Romania 68.93
17 USA 66.79
18 ↑ (21) Spain 63.05 (+1.93)
19 ↓ (18) Namibia 62.78
20 ↓ (19) Russia 61.75

So am I right in saying the implications for the RWC2019 will be (assuming, probably incorrectly, there will be no changes to this before the end of the month) that pools would be:

Pool A New Zealand, Scotland, Argentina, TBC, TBC
Pool B England, Wales, Japan, TBC, TBC
Pool C Australia, South Africa, Georgia, TBC, TBC
Pool D Ireland, France, Italy, TBC, TBC

Correct???

Pool A New Zealand, Scotland, Argentina, TBC, TBC

About time we got an easy draw

Moncreif wrote:

openclashXX wrote:as a result of Wales' win over Ireland. all-time lowest ranking spot, surely?

1 New Zealand 94.78
2 England 91.02
3 Australia 86.35
4 Ireland 83.18 (-1.00)
5 Scotland 82.18
6 ↑ (7) Wales 82.16 (+1.00)
7 ↓ (6) South Africa 81.79
8 France 81.21 (+0.64)
9 Argentina 79.91
10 Fiji 76.46
11 Japan 74.22
12 Georgia 74.14
13 Tonga 71.94
14 ↑ (15) Samoa 71.25
15 ↓ (14) Italy 71.17 (-0.64)
16 Romania 68.93
17 USA 66.79
18 ↑ (21) Spain 63.05 (+1.93)
19 ↓ (18) Namibia 62.78
20 ↓ (19) Russia 61.75

So am I right in saying the implications for the RWC2019 will be (assuming, probably incorrectly, there will be no changes to this before the end of the month) that pools would be:

Pool A New Zealand, Scotland, Argentina, TBC, TBC
Pool B England, Wales, Japan, TBC, TBC
Pool C Australia, South Africa, Georgia, TBC, TBC
Pool D Ireland, France, Italy, TBC, TBC

Correct???

Wrong.

Each group of 4 (1-4, 5-8, 9-12 etc.) are drawn so anyone of 5-8 and 9-12 can be with anyone of 1-4

roger that. Thanks. Makes more sense.